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If you could re-make CO, what would you do?

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  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,314 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I always wanted a machine gun bracer.
    Yeah, but what do you want on your character? :smile:
    "Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"

    - David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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  • chaelkchaelk Posts: 7,732 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    wonder where all the money came from?
    then drop STO & NW(listening to all the screams), take all the devs from them and put them on CO
    Stuffing up Freeform builds since Mid 2011
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  • zahinderzahinder Posts: 2,382 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    I'm not a pvp er, but they should at LEAST get questionite rewards.

    I'd actually love to see pvp-like pve instances, where people join in and do various goals in an instance to control points, build defenses (against, say, alien invasion), and so on.
    Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH

    Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?

    Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?

    Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
  • quietwindsquietwinds Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    i signed up as a gold member to gain things that the normal free players couldn't yet now i see they can get everything gold members can including the free form.. why am i wasting money paying a monthly fee when i can get everything from the c-store suggestons for remaking first and formost reward those loyal to the game willing to sign on the dotted line, with exclusive thing to gold only instead of praying to the almighty buck from what i have seen of the vet rewards a pretty glow and annoying pets and titles arn't good enough and are pretty weak if you ask me STOL has far better vet rewards
  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,314 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Well, Quiet, for starters that's fifty bucks US for a single Freeform slot for a Silver account ($25 during the current sale, but that ends Tuesday). And that slot doesn't include defining emanation points or coloring powers.

    Meanwhile, as a Gold member, you have 8 base Freeform slots (16 if you're a Lifer), power recoloring, definition of emanation points for your powers, several costume packs that cost good money for Silvers, a 500 Zen stipend per month (a $5 monthly value, and one that never gets factored in when someone figures how long it takes for a LTS to pay for itself), vet rewards (and since when are STO's better? Is a single EV suit really more impressive than the Bird People costume parts, especially since the EV suit can only be worn under certain circumstances?), another Freeform slot every time you get a toon to 40 (which the Silver FF slot doesn't get), and probably some other stuff I'm forgetting.

    So really - you don't see the value? Or you just want to be so freaking elitist that none of your subscription benefits should be available to anyone else at any price?
    "Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"

    - David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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  • chaelkchaelk Posts: 7,732 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    you missed free hideout and no money limit(well except the one Bacon crashed into)
    some free premium AT's
    Stuffing up Freeform builds since Mid 2011
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  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,314 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Oh, I also missed the part where if you have an existing AT as a Silver and then go Gold, you can convert your AT to an FF, whereas if you buy a Silver FF slot you have to create a whole new character to go into it.
    "Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"

    - David Brin, "Those Eyes"
    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • keikomystkeikomyst Posts: 626 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    If I were to remake CO...

    - Priority 1: A much, much better soundtrack.
    Right now CO's OST, save for Snake Gulch, is all very generic and 'backgroundy'. The lack of truly memorable music (save for Snake Gulch) really hurts the game, and yes, there's an in-game mp3 player, but that doesn't excuse any game from having a good base soundtrack. Possibly include a 'heroic theme song' system where you kinda-sorta design your own hero's theme from a bunch of different note sequences and instruments, along with all of the options that'd come with such a feature. Always play in combat, only play when you've activated your AO/AD, allow friends to hear, turn off teammates' theme songs, and so on and so forth to prevent such a cool feature from being abused.

    - Priority 2: A re-evaluation of the Archetype and Freeform system.
    Archetypes have their place as a sort of balancing cornerstone, benchmarking the 'average' player when it comes to creating new content. Getting rid of them altogether wouldn't be a good idea. I'd rather see Archetypes become 'partial Freeform', have relevant powers to each Archetype evaluated and made available to them (Marksman gets all Archery and some Martial Arts defensive/healing/passive powers, for example, so you could have an LR-using Marksman with BCR + RR in Hybird or Tank role and still count as a Marksman, also allowing the full 14 power picks) and sell Silver Freeform slots where you can buy locked powersets via Zen (shouldn't be too expensive and should be account-wide for all Silver Freeforms). Keep Gold/Super Freeform (all powersets unlocked from the get-go) the same.

    - Priority 3: Things always hitting is unfun, let's change that.
    Leaving it up to the RNG to decide whether we dodge the attack or not is lame. The days of the homing knives would end, and heroes would be able to outright avoid incoming attacks by moving out of the way or using a dodge roll that their block power grants them. I'd also add specifications that give innate 'Miss!' bonuses when you're moving and being attacked. Of course, I'd also add a spec that grants more defense when you hold still, so both playstyles are cared for.

    - Priority 4: Balance the hell out of everything.
    First it'll have to be the Blast powers. They're all going to have to do roughly the same damage with a different 'gimmick' to them. Every powerset from then on should have an 'equivalent' to what other powersets have. Fury of the Dragon should be doing damage comparable to Strafing Run, Epidemic should not be letting you move so quickly, other powersets need a healing debuff, and so on and so forth.

    - Priority 5: Good Z-Store items that don't pale in comparison to lockbox items.
    Let's be realistic here. If I were to remake CO I'd probably be told to keep lockboxes in. Well, I would, but I'd allow the option to buy something just as good as the lockbox/D-Store item in the Z-Store. All vehicles would have the same amount of slots, an equivalent costume set would be released, along with an equivalent Become Device. If there's any fun gadgets in the lockbox they can be added to the Z-Store as well.

    - Priority 6: VEHICLE PAINT JOBS.
    COME ON! Some people want purple and gold jets! Or pink and black hoverbikes! GET TO IT!
  • sistersiliconsistersilicon Posts: 1,687 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    keikomyst wrote: »
    - Priority 3: Things always hitting is unfun, let's change that.
    Leaving it up to the RNG to decide whether we dodge the attack or not is lame. The days of the homing knives would end, and heroes would be able to outright avoid incoming attacks by moving out of the way or using a dodge roll that their block power grants them. I'd also add specifications that give innate 'Miss!' bonuses when you're moving and being attacked. Of course, I'd also add a spec that grants more defense when you hold still, so both playstyles are cared for.

    I think CO's perfect accuracy was an over-reaction to CoH. Imagine having to destroy a shipping crate as a mission objective, walking up to that crate, a stationary mob twice your character's size, using a melee attack, and watching it miss. And you thought Anchorman jokes were immersion-breakers. Happy mediums, Cryptic. Happy mediums.
    keikomyst wrote: »
    - Priority 6: VEHICLE PAINT JOBS.
    COME ON! Some people want purple and gold jets!

    Geaux Tigers?
    Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
    They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
  • hyperstrikecohhyperstrikecoh Posts: 472 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    1: EVERYTHING should be skinnable/customizable. All this "Today we'll sell you a RED JET! Tomorrow we sell you a GREEN JET!" crap has gotta go.

    2: I hate that auto-ing energy builders means you auto-taunt. It makes strategic positioning before a fight impossible. And de-autoing your energy builder just to do so basically moots the point of having an auto power at all.

    3: If they want to put stuff in lock-boxes, FINE. GREAT! WONDERFUL! But they should also have ways for players to EARN the stuff in-game too!

    4: STOP WITH ALL THE


    ONE-TIME "EVENTS"!!!



    It takes a while to build content. FFS *WHY* are you going to build something you're eventually just going to turn off and remove? Sorry if this is rude, but this has to be one of the dumber (but not dumbest) decisions in CO's long history of dumb decisions.

    Note: I'm NOT talking about "holiday" events. Those are recurring. So they get turned on again a year later. But things like Forum Malvanum. Lemurian Invasion, etc.

    They should have been set up as small open-world events leading into mission chains that would eventually lead to triggering a big open world event or unlocking access to a Comic Series.

    5: While I understand the arguments against "zerging", I REALLY freaking would convert boss-fight lockouts to "timered" lockouts. This way, people don't sit there useless, picking their nose, begging teammates to die just so they can get back in. Set the lockout "door" on a rotating 2-5 minute interval (with alerts when a door is about to open). This way people can still get back into a fight, but there are still penalties for dying and safeguards against zerging.

    6: Fix the damn forums. The text formatting here is broke all to hell.

    I could probably go on in this vein for a while. But who'm I kidding? None of this'll get implemented.
  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,314 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Forum Malvanum is in fact not a "one-time event"; it's already been added to the Alert rotation, and I've seen it come up at least twice.

    I'd love to see a reprise of the Lemurian Invasion, but understand that they can't wreck RenCen on a weekly basis - too many people complain about "immersion-breaking" as it is.
    "Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"

    - David Brin, "Those Eyes"
    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Community Moderator
    edited December 2013
    jonsills wrote: »
    Forum Malvanum is in fact not a "one-time event"; it's already been added to the Alert rotation, and I've seen it come up at least twice.

    I'd love to see a reprise of the Lemurian Invasion, but understand that they can't wreck RenCen on a weekly basis - too many people complain about "immersion-breaking" as it is.

    But with all the events, they added missions that are no longer available. They weren't mind-blowing missions, though the Forum Malvanum's race was a nice change of pace (har har).

    It wasn't until Fatal Error that they started leaving the event ramp-up missions in.
    biffsig.jpg
  • hyperstrikecohhyperstrikecoh Posts: 472 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    But with all the events, they added missions that are no longer available. They weren't mind-blowing missions, though the Forum Malvanum's race was a nice change of pace (har har).

    It wasn't until Fatal Error that they started leaving the event ramp-up missions in.

    Exactly.

    Why strip content out when you don't need to?
  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Community Moderator
    edited December 2013
    Exactly.

    Why strip content out when you don't need to?

    If it's an engine limitation, then you'd need to. It's easy to say, from this side of the game, "it should be easy to do this or that." But unless you yourself know how such things are implemented, it's not our place to say.

    I heard from one of the developers that there was a technical limit that prevented the Lemurian alert to just be up forever. Things like the race I can understand why they wouldn't want that out there all the time... though it would be cool if the race came back with the alert rotation.

    Things like the Lemurian Invasion ramp-up missions, maybe at that time they just didn't think they were necessary to keep around.
    biffsig.jpg
  • jellycupsowbugjellycupsowbug Posts: 358 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    I think I'd give the powers more team synergy. It seems like they step on each others' toes right now. Control is negated by damage, melee is negated by knocks, and has terrible aoe. Stuff dies before you can charge a charge power. Aoe is useless when mobs get scattered. If we can't have effective holds in this game, we should at least have more powers like Implosion Engine and Ebon Rift, as well as a way to buff the repel/reverse repel.

    =============================================

    More punchy and blasty powers, and less conjuring. Our energy projector aoes looks like dragon breath and spell casting, while our spell casting looks like some kind of purple fire blast. The stronger aoe powers in particular, have little thematic versatility, and some of them just don't look right in the set.

    Melee needs better aoe, and more aoe combos. If the area arc were extended to 240 degrees, the "cone" aoes would be able to compete with the spheres. When I play Heavy Weapons, it feels like my main power is Brimstone, but it doesn't look good when you spam it. (it looks great when you leap, and time it to impact when you land, though).

    We have a lot of powers that don't have the look of a spammable power, like the throwing powers, and many of the pbaoes, but they do so much damage that they overshadow more interesting looking powers.

    We still need some good long range aoe blasting powers. Tactical missiles, with the aoe advantage have about the right feel for this. Having a version of this for each power set would be handy for covering the need for generic blasting powers.

    Edit: Also, Challenging Strikes on more aoes. Hardly any blasty looking projection powers have Challenging Strikes, and there are few long range powers with it, outside of Archery and Power Armor.

    The older Gadgeteer powers use too much energy for the small amount of effect that they produce. If you want "hard mode", try using Sonic Boom Generator as your primary attack.


    =============================================

    I'd probably separate the powers from the skins, and only have a few kinds of power. The
    power set gimmicks would be handled by skill trees. No stats. We don't need stats for this game. "Super Stats" should be powers. Why are "Super Strength" and "Might" separate things?

    No energy builders. Instead, have spammable powers cost no energy, and stronger powers cost energy. Energy is recovered over time, and through Gimmicks from the skill tree.


    We need fewer, but more interesting combat encounters. A few large objects in the battle area can have a lot of tactical value.

    I'd design the power skins and costume parts to compliment each other more. Gun hands don't match very many power skins. Few weapon skins and costume weapons match each other.

    =============================================

    Sorry about the length. It's been building up. x3
  • hyperstrikecohhyperstrikecoh Posts: 472 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    If it's an engine limitation, then you'd need to. It's easy to say, from this side of the game, "it should be easy to do this or that." But unless you yourself know how such things are implemented, it's not our place to say.

    I heard from one of the developers that there was a technical limit that prevented the Lemurian alert to just be up forever. Things like the race I can understand why they wouldn't want that out there all the time... though it would be cool if the race came back with the alert rotation.

    Things like the Lemurian Invasion ramp-up missions, maybe at that time they just didn't think they were necessary to keep around.

    If it's an engine limitation, where new content (outside of a few trivial single missions) cannot be permanently added, then the game's done. It, quite literally, WON'T grow anymore and there's precious little replay value in the game as-is. Sure, different ATs, fiddle around with different freeforms. But, content-wise, the game is a stagnant dead-end.
  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Community Moderator
    edited December 2013
    If it's an engine limitation, where new content (outside of a few trivial single missions) cannot be permanently added, then the game's done. It, quite literally, WON'T grow anymore and there's precious little replay value in the game as-is. Sure, different ATs, fiddle around with different freeforms. But, content-wise, the game is a stagnant dead-end.

    Oh doomy doomy doom doom.

    It could just be the way that the Lemurian Invasion was built. Invasion-style events aren't generally added as permanent content. Bundle that with the apparent fact that it was started by Cryptic and picked up by Cryptic North who seemed like they were still trying to get the hang of things, and you've got lots of reasons why they can't do this or that with it. On top of that, it could also have been a typical developer brush-off answer.

    So who knows?

    The only thing we know for sure is that we don't know all the facts. So let's turn that mountain back into a molehill.
    biffsig.jpg
  • zahinderzahinder Posts: 2,382 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    If certain types of events run into engine limitations, THEN WORK ON OTHER EVENTS.

    It's pretty basic project management -- when you are strapped for content, focus on most bang for your buck.
    Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH

    Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?

    Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?

    Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Community Moderator
    edited December 2013
    zahinder wrote: »
    If certain types of events run into engine limitations, THEN WORK ON OTHER EVENTS.

    It's pretty basic project management -- when you are strapped for content, focus on most bang for your buck.

    Personally, I think the event system was kind of their way of learning and easing into things. Who knows, they might have more permanent content coming, maybe not, maybe so, I dunno, someone get a crystal ball already.
    biffsig.jpg
  • bwdaresbwdares Posts: 1,517 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    zahinder wrote: »
    If certain types of events run into engine limitations, THEN WORK ON OTHER EVENTS.

    It's pretty basic project management -- when you are strapped for content, focus on most bang for your buck.

    Or work on upgrading the engine.
    #Mechanon!(completed) #New Zones! #Foundry!
  • reiwulfreiwulf Posts: 442 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Wow, this is an interesting topic, lots of ideas:

    1.-I would completely revamp the FF/archetype system. Every toon should be created equal, archetype is too restrictive and FF is really out of whack, why would anyone need a char that has superstrenght, can shoot lasers out of their eyes, has black magic demon powers, has a AK44 riffle, and can shoot sonic booms with their **** at the same time? Superheroes and other similar chars always have had a theme to them and their powers, CoX had a much better system, where you chose a type of play, then the powers, their animation, the color, and you could access to parts of other power trees.

    2.-The foundry, this is very important, this means unlimited content, why would any cryptic game not include it really blows my mind (I know if's because CO's engine is older, but still) unlimited content means you can have unlimited things to do without having to use tierer content for endgame if you don't like that.

    3.- The graphics, they should be on par with STO/NW, they look ugly as hell now, models are ugly, no textures in many places, flat colors, it needs a huge revamp.

    4.-More seriousness, I know that this game is supposed to be like old sunday cartoons like justicve league, but really, does anyone prefer that over current comic books or superhero series? I know some people prefer the old ones, but let's face it, it's not what MOST prefer, and the superhero fan community being already somewhat small, it makes no sense to alienate many of them more by making it so silly. Today's comics and series have humor, there's nothing wrong with that, but it's different when the game is filled with horrible jokes and bad puns all the time. (this also goes in hand with the graphics, to make a more serious game)

    5.-Having certain possible origin (like DCUO's magical, tech or metahuman) options that could give us different specific quests while levelling.

    6.- Endgame, I know some people don't like tiered content, but I've yet to hear a better idea, people need something to do when they reach max lv.

    7.-Combat system, again the combat has grown old and boring, I would prefer something much more action based like Tera, or even better that would allow for combos, like DCUO or Dragon's prophet (many people might not know this game, but the combat is awesome!)maybe cryptic's engine can't handle that, but then Neverwinter combat system is good enough for me.

    8.- Balanced pvp with 2 modes, something like battlegrounds, where you have capture the flag, guard your base, or any other more strategic mode, and arenas, that work with points, and it's just a matter of kill kill kill

    This is IMO what would make a great new game for CO, I know that I'm probably just daydreaming and I have a better chance of another superhero MMO to appear in the future and cather more to my tastes though, because it basically means completely making the game from the ground again.
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