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Is Lightning Reflexes Surviveable?

merlinmonroemerlinmonroe Posts: 40 Arc User
edited November 2013 in Power Discussion
I play an Unarmed Martial Artist and use Night Warrior as my passive.
I like it because I can 1-shot most Elites. The problem is that it isn't effective when fighting large groups.

I've noticed that many MA abilities gain their effectiveness around dodging.
Is LR really useful? Does it defend well?
Post edited by merlinmonroe on

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    kenpojujitsu3kenpojujitsu3 Posts: 1,320 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    merlinmonroe wrote: »
    Is LR really useful? Does it defend well?

    Yes it useful. Done moderately well it is on par with the other defensive passives in the game and with significant investment it can be built around to be blatantly superior to the others.
    ________________________________________________
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    Demon Keypo's Building Guide
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    pjz99pjz99 Posts: 143 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    LR is better than fine, imo it is at least as good as Defiance. If you're also into high Defense (70-80% resist all from Defense is not too hard to obtain for freeforms) and especially if you mix in more esoteric forms of defense like ebon and/or radiant sigils or circle of primal dominion or IDF, you can keep up with Defiance vs anything that is important to tank. If you're using Form of the Master/advantage then the cooldowns for your self heals (BCR, conviction, resurgence) are essentially cut in half, IN ADDITION TO any other form of cooldown reduction you have.

    I have a tank with just the baseline dodge/avoid provided by LR (50 dodge/78.5 avoid) and she's one of the toughest tanks I've put together. And I didn't even try that hard!
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    xydaxydaxydaxyda Posts: 817 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    even without elusive monk and evasive maneuvers I find Lightning Reflexes very survivable most of the time, though I do use dodge gear and take other abilities that increase my chance to dodge(just not those two)
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    avianosavianos Posts: 6,028 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    There is a FreeForm user who TANKS GRAVITAR with LR (and Two Gun Mojo, since she is Range FF Build)

    From Personal Experience I think LR Is REALLY Great, My specialist can hardly die in alerts! :biggrin:

    if I ever remake my Specialist into FF, I'm gonna keep the LR :biggrin:
    POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
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    saburfangsaburfang Posts: 121 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Who is this "LR Tank"? :o
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    pjz99pjz99 Posts: 143 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I've tanked Gravitar with LR a couple of times. I don't do Gravitar very often because frankly it's pretty monotonous but yeah my LR tank did well.

    e: please note we went from "is LR survivable" to "if it can't tank gravitar it's crap" wow :confused:
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    lovehammer1lovehammer1 Posts: 416 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    As someone who has a lot of builds with Lightning Reflexes...
    After the nerf, LR is NOT as survivable. Not even close at base. How could it be. 50% vs. 60% plus at base before nerf. But with that said, yes, if you throw the kitchen sink into dodge powers and gear you can be pretty tough. Just understand that you will have less attack powers, utility and advantage points to use than you might of built into your build than before.

    At least that's the case with me. Want more dodge? Get rid of power x. Add power z. Rinse repeat, until you get your dodge back to or close to where it was before nerf. Sigh...
    Anyway, yes... you can make it work.

    It will take some sacrifice to be as survivable as before (Well maybe not as survivable)
    Still worth taking for the most part.
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    lovehammer1lovehammer1 Posts: 416 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    To answer the op's question... look to my last post.
    But to add to the question. NO ONE person can tell you what you will experience when you build. That goes for any set. I was telling my side of the story as far as LR goes. Others have their own views. But, really it comes down to you playing the build yourself. Go and test it like i did. Try different powers and such. Different combinations. Go into the powerhouse and get a feel for the LR build YOU put together.

    That's the only way you will know if it's survivable to your standards. Getting advice is fine.
    But to get proper feedback without bias, you need to find out on your own.

    People for the nerf will tell you one thing... people against it, the same. Until you go there and compare, you will never know.
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    pjz99pjz99 Posts: 143 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Uh, whatever your opinions about the dodge nerf, Lightning Reflexes is now clearly the best and most useful source of Dodge/Avoid. It's not that LR was a bad power before the overhaul, just that you could get sufficient Dodge/Avoid from other passives and gear (or even just gear) so LR was overkill. Now it's more valuable, overall. I have been there, I have many tanks between LR and Defiance, and as of today LR is still great.
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    xydaxydaxydaxyda Posts: 817 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    The OP never mentioned the changes to dodge, does that really have to be part of this discussion?

    No, the question is about the survivability of LR vs NW...particularly combined with other MA abilities.

    Yes, dodge was recently changed/nerfed. It happened, now let's move on.
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    lovehammer1lovehammer1 Posts: 416 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Like i said before. (To the op)

    Try it for yourself. NO ONE PERSON can tell you what is or isn't the best of anything.
    You will decide that after testing out different sets, LR included.

    Your thoughts may vary. But that's OK. I have friends tell me Defiance is best for defense.
    Others say Invulnerability is!

    See what I'm getting at. It's an opinion. It's a feel. And for the first time ever, just yesterday someone told me LR was the best defensive passive. So, yeah... try it for yourself. You will make up your own mind.

    I'm not trying to sell you anything. I don't benefit anything by telling you something as silly as LR is the best without knowing how you build or what content you're going up against.

    But you can trust yourself, right? Test. Best advice i can give you. Again, IMHO for surviving... LR isn't half bad. Not as great as it once was. But you could do worse. (Just my opinion)

    Good luck.
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    pjz99pjz99 Posts: 143 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Okay you've said it three times now I think he can read.
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    monsterdaddymonsterdaddy Posts: 774 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    pjz99 wrote: »
    Uh, whatever your opinions about the dodge nerf, Lightning Reflexes is now clearly the best and most useful source of Dodge/Avoid.
    Very good way to put it, especially for Avoidance. IMHO, LR is now the best passive IF...

    1) You go Warden/Vindicator to add damage resistance, and;
    2) Obtain a good heal(s)

    Then, once again you achieve the trinity of good defenses. And surprisingly, a Legion BP of Elusiveness with 2x Luck is quite useful in this setup. (I'd also like to opine that I consider Laser Knight as the 4th good defense.)
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    pjz99pjz99 Posts: 143 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Sentry is a very good alternative too, it has Twist Fate for up to 9% dodge chance and up to 22% resist all from other perks, as well as +30% defense from items.

    Also you forgot the fourth leg, sticking -%damage on enemies:
    - Protector/Exhausting Strikes -10%
    - Arbiter/Concussion for up to -15% on stun
    - various sources of Fear for -9.1%
    - Ebon sigils where practical for a really immense amount of -%damage
    etc.
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    lovehammer1lovehammer1 Posts: 416 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    pjz99 wrote: »
    Okay you've said it three times now I think he can read.

    OK. First off, i wasn't talking to you. As your useless remark so nicely stated. I am aware that this is an open forum, however, if you can read... i was answering the OP. Trying to help.
    Do you have anything useful to say or any help, advice for OP that's not an insult or snide remark? If you have nothing useful to say to help the OP out maybe you should just Shut the BLEEP up! Just saying.
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    pjz99pjz99 Posts: 143 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    What an excellent time to investigate the ignore feature! Bye bro!
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    lovehammer1lovehammer1 Posts: 416 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    pjz99 wrote: »
    What an excellent time to investigate the ignore feature! Bye bro!
    Thank the lord. I only wish everybody didn't have to read your condescending posts.
    You should ignore everyone. Now that would be helpful.
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    merlinmonroemerlinmonroe Posts: 40 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Thank you all for your replies.
    I was definitely planning to try and experiment with LR, but I wanted some comments first.
    I've played MMOs for many years, and on many occasions have read comments that "XXX power isn't very useful."
    I just wanted to see if it was good or overly nerfed.
    I wasn't going to ask if LR was better than NW since they are both totally different.
    NW is excellent against small groups, especially if they have one elite. It isn't so good against larger groups.
    I just wanted to see if LR was worth trying.
    I'm going to experiment with LR builds.
    Thanks for your comments.
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    kenpojujitsu3kenpojujitsu3 Posts: 1,320 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    merlinmonroe wrote: »
    I'm going to experiment with LR builds.
    Thanks for your comments.

    If you need any help let me know. I'll be happy to assist.
    ________________________________________________
    My Amazon author page
    How to build a freeform character...the Kenpo way
    Demon Keypo's Building Guide
    Freeform Builds Directory (Last updated: 04/23/2016)
    Serving since September, 2009 / 65 Characters, 63 Level 40's
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    wrathsoul1wrathsoul1 Posts: 679 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    kenpojujitsu3 wrote: »
    If you need any help let me know. I'll be happy to assist.

    Trust him. He's a build guru.
    Personal ideas thread: http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=276551
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    lovehammer1lovehammer1 Posts: 416 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    merlinmonroe wrote: »
    Thank you all for your replies.
    I was definitely planning to try and experiment with LR, but I wanted some comments first.
    I've played MMOs for many years, and on many occasions have read comments that "XXX power isn't very useful."
    I just wanted to see if it was good or overly nerfed.
    I wasn't going to ask if LR was better than NW since they are both totally different.
    NW is excellent against small groups, especially if they have one elite. It isn't so good against larger groups.
    I just wanted to see if LR was worth trying.
    I'm going to experiment with LR builds.
    Thanks for your comments.
    I'm glad you got something useful out of this thread.
    Check back. I for one would like to know how you like Lightning Reflexes. (My favorite passive, even after the nerf)

    Good luck once again :smile:
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    helbjornhelbjorn Posts: 678 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    wrathsoul1 wrote: »
    He's a build guru.

    The title he prefers is Build SENSEI.
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    merlinmonroemerlinmonroe Posts: 40 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Thanks everyone.

    I have tried LR and I really like it. I have great surviveability, and live through almost all fights.

    I've noticed that many MA powers are best when dodging. This makes for a great MA toon.

    I think that LR is much better for all around surviveability than NW.
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