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If you could re-make CO, what would you do?
cybersoldier1981
Posts: 2,501 Arc User
Here's the deal. CO retains (most) of its overall characteristics. Same character creator, roughly the same powers (At least the animations/effects), and same IP. However, you magically get pulled in to 're-invent' the game based on your ideas. You don't have to be ultra-specific.
Me? Here goes.
1- Heroes choose their 'hero type'. I'm not exactly sure how to best do this, but something in line with 'tech', 'magic', 'vigilante', 'agent', and 'traditional' (other types could be added, of course, these are just off the top of my head). This is the theme your hero fits, or more simply- the kind of stories you want your hero involved in. However, it also has other roles.
Then, re-write EVERYTHING, except the adventure packs (though, tuning those up could help). This will eliminate the baffling instances of 'Mecha-Destructor Mk 4 Android' from 'conducting the ancient magical earth hippie ritual'. Make the stories make sense, rather than a collection of random fetch-quests that have nothing to do with one another. Make a REASON I'm going to talk to this guy, after I got through helping that other guy.
Characters would be able to do 'universal' missions, or even switch over to do other types. Granted, this is probably an idea that will get CO's 'I can do everything with my character' players upset, but that's why you can change it up if you want.
2- Destroy the Freeform system. There, I said it, and here comes the response from that some group of 'I can do everything with my character' persons. This is where people are going to go bonkers, but STFU and read on.
Limit the players to a skill tree and rework the powers within that tree to better synergize. This is probably a massive undertaking, but there should have, long ago, been powers in every powers tree (technology, martial arts, magic, etc.) to accommodate every type of characters' needs. So, chances are, what you have right now? Should be rewritten to have an equivalent in your primary powers tree.
Now, to make things more interesting (because I'm cool like that), at a certain point you would be able to take powers from one additional skill tree. There could also be several 'universal' powers that anyone could pick from at any time.
While this eliminates the 'Ultimate Clown Builds', it also still allows the flexibility for a playstyle while keeping in theme. Granted, it probably won't appease the guy who wants to be a demon ninja cyborg wizard, but f*** that guy. I'm kidding, just deal with the fact you can't be an unstoppable monster with an array of powers all over the damned spectrum. That's what 'normal' and 'successful' games do, and CO has spoiled people with power and starved them for content.
3- Prepare for Nemesis Online. There is a demand for this, and some variety in the grind would make the game more interesting.
4- Reboot the Nemesis system. There've been countless ways to do this, right now it's nothing worth fooling with as it is. Make it fit the type of character/story the player wants instead of generic random 'death ray' missions out of some 1960's crap-comic.
Me? Here goes.
1- Heroes choose their 'hero type'. I'm not exactly sure how to best do this, but something in line with 'tech', 'magic', 'vigilante', 'agent', and 'traditional' (other types could be added, of course, these are just off the top of my head). This is the theme your hero fits, or more simply- the kind of stories you want your hero involved in. However, it also has other roles.
Then, re-write EVERYTHING, except the adventure packs (though, tuning those up could help). This will eliminate the baffling instances of 'Mecha-Destructor Mk 4 Android' from 'conducting the ancient magical earth hippie ritual'. Make the stories make sense, rather than a collection of random fetch-quests that have nothing to do with one another. Make a REASON I'm going to talk to this guy, after I got through helping that other guy.
Characters would be able to do 'universal' missions, or even switch over to do other types. Granted, this is probably an idea that will get CO's 'I can do everything with my character' players upset, but that's why you can change it up if you want.
2- Destroy the Freeform system. There, I said it, and here comes the response from that some group of 'I can do everything with my character' persons. This is where people are going to go bonkers, but STFU and read on.
Limit the players to a skill tree and rework the powers within that tree to better synergize. This is probably a massive undertaking, but there should have, long ago, been powers in every powers tree (technology, martial arts, magic, etc.) to accommodate every type of characters' needs. So, chances are, what you have right now? Should be rewritten to have an equivalent in your primary powers tree.
Now, to make things more interesting (because I'm cool like that), at a certain point you would be able to take powers from one additional skill tree. There could also be several 'universal' powers that anyone could pick from at any time.
While this eliminates the 'Ultimate Clown Builds', it also still allows the flexibility for a playstyle while keeping in theme. Granted, it probably won't appease the guy who wants to be a demon ninja cyborg wizard, but f*** that guy. I'm kidding, just deal with the fact you can't be an unstoppable monster with an array of powers all over the damned spectrum. That's what 'normal' and 'successful' games do, and CO has spoiled people with power and starved them for content.
3- Prepare for Nemesis Online. There is a demand for this, and some variety in the grind would make the game more interesting.
4- Reboot the Nemesis system. There've been countless ways to do this, right now it's nothing worth fooling with as it is. Make it fit the type of character/story the player wants instead of generic random 'death ray' missions out of some 1960's crap-comic.
Post edited by cybersoldier1981 on
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I would also make it so that certain alerts only appear in certain zones, that way atleast the maps in all areas of the game will be populated and "used".
Find a way to make Lemuria more melee friendly. Not sure how to do that yet.
Emanation points to most powers would be amazing. For example, I always felt that Haymaker should have the roomsweeper animation *cough cough hint hint*
I'd would also promote gear that is exclusive, powerful, and bind on pickup to lairs and comic adventure packs, so that the game feels like you earned a powerful piece of gear, rather than buy it through the AH or another player.
I have alot of other things stirring in my brain, or lack thereof, but that's for another time.
Caliga's PRIMUS Database! --XXX--The Caliga Build: Threatening Haymakers! --XXX-- Caliga and Conquer fanart!
Wait? Whaaaa..?
And I'd stick some sort of online co-op mode in there somewhere.
Wait? Whaaaa..?
1)allow for the weapons to shown when not in combat. this truly propelled City of Heroes.
2)Hire long term devs.
3)These graphics..Ahh god aweful.
4)Kill off lockboxes.
Winner. :biggrin:
Step 2: Cryptic is a company and steps are taken to improve it's internal and external communication 1000%. The Cryptic MMOs become a sharing resource pool so that each title can use the assets/mechanics of the other in a way which allows them all to strive for greatness.
Step 3: Hire actual functional Marketing, Customer Service, and GM teams comprised of people who actually play the games they represent and therefore are better informed in how to do their job. This includes, but is not limited to, ingame GM presence, service, and random mini-events ranging from GM hangs out while passing out fireworks or something else that's fun and useless to Destroid Invasions and other such mini-mini-events which can be generated in a moment's notice.
Step 4: Split Dev Focus(and keep the devs for the majority instead of strangleholding CO all the time) between the completion of existing projects(Unity/Nemesis/whatever) as well as new projects like Foundry V1, which would have hit CO in my lil universe shortly after it did in STO. The key here is to complete the projects that are starts to the point where they function, are enjoyable, and don't feel half-done before moving onto the next shiny.
Step 5: Once STO hits and is out long enough to show positive results....shift CO to Episodic Content which progresses the storyline and adds new content. (this kinda falls in line with Step 4).
Step 6: Once STO and NW have their Campaign Zones with Alternate Advancement Systems up and running....copy the mechanics and systems to CO(this kinda falls in line with Step 4).
Step 6: Invent and test NW's mini-event systems in CO before NW is completed and have them running here 1st. This was almost done with the Salvage Daily Events and Roxstar event...but missed it just by a smidge.(this kinda falls in line with Step 4)
Step 7: Get Dev/Playerbase communication via forums up and running from day one and when the devs decide to tackle something "Because the players demanded it" make certain the tech exists(or is possible because Step 1 is using a real engine) and the idea can be implimented as requested instead of things like the current CO vehicle system happening(seriously, it can't even have 2 ground points to make ground vehicles).
Step 8: When the lockboxes come rebalance them so that, on average, a player can get the goods from them in the range of like 20 bucks or so. Then when you keep churning them out there will be less backlash because it's still a gamble but it's one not so heavily skewed against the player. IMO if a player believes these lil "mini-pack" lockboxes are fairly balanced and that they can get everything good from them for about 20 bucks...then more people will be inclined to shell out that 20 bucks each time a new lockbox is presented to them. Also don't dry up the Z-Store into a desert during this process but continue to push out costume sets and other such features to maximize potential profit intake. This will also serve, IMO, the dual purpose of getting Gold/LTS to not sit on stockpiles of stipend and be happy about all the stuff they're getting.
IMO if the game had been aggressively marketed, not dev stripped on a regular basis and turned into some "Dev training grounds" for the other titles, and communication and customer service standards had been in place from the getgo then CO would have had more than enough room to reach this mythical "potential" that all the vets mention when talking about this subject and ones like it.
P.S. Step 9: Transfer Antiproton, Balseraph, and Daeke to STO on CO's launch day and find a way to hire TT at the same time for CO. Never transfer H20rat, Tumerboy, or some of the other shining stars we've had on this project. Also prevent 2 particularly poor and lacking in profesionalism conversations between the community and 2 certain Cryptic Employees from ever happening(If you know then you know and if you don't then I'm not naming names).
P.S.S. Step 10: Don't clutter the live files with half-completed projects that never see the light of day or nice assets which do not make it into released content. Either find a way to make these things a reality....or better delegate resources so that these efforts are directed towards projects which do generate live content.
IMO it's not so much a matter of wanting feature A or feature B that never happened so much as using a proper engine and the practices which would set the project up for success as opposed to multiple instances of shooting the whole game in the foot with a nailgun and then wondering why it cannot move around so well.
P.S.S.S. Step 11: Impliment and USE PTS from day one. Reward players who contribute the time, math, effort, and helpful feedback and politely inform, ignore, ban those who derail or are detrimental to the process. Set up timetables which allow for changes to systems to be possible before they are inflicted upon Live. PTS is free testing and information by people who are mostly invested in the success of the game they like. Take their zeal and dedication and use it as the valuable tool that is can be in a situation like this.
Ok, structure on this one is a touch off but overall I think I got the main points accross. if not I can always just make another post. :biggrin:
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
1. Add in Heroic Origins/Types. Technological, Scientific, Magical, Beastial, etc. These should effect quest dialogue and the effects of Accessories (*points down*), at least.
2. Remove Gear and Devices, replace with Accessories. Accessories give passive or activatable bonuses or gimmicks. Each Accessory has has an Origin that may help or hurt your hero depending on their Origin. For example, while a Technology accessory may improve Constitution, it might cause a Magic Hero to move slower, in addition.
Give it a "weight" system to avoid bonus abusing.
3. CoX's Primary and Secondary Powerset system, bring it ovah hurr. Let all players customize power tints/hues. Have basic Powersets for free, with more sets in the Cash Shop.
4. Phrases: Phrases that your hero occasionally spouts during battle when certain conditions are met. Of course, they won't pop up in Chat and you have the option to disable seeing them. Gives the PCs more personality, ya know?
5. Redo Crafting: Gain materials from the environment and enemy drops in a way that's more like a traditional MMORPG. Mainly for costume pieces and Origin-exclusive accessories. What you'll be able to craft is limited by your Origin.
6. I hear the HERO System has a Disadvantage System that gives your characters flaws in return for bonuses. I'd like to implement that into the game.
7. Add a Sidekick System: At a certain level, you have the option of obtaining a customizable AI partner. You will be able to choose its Origin, a premade Primary Powerset Path, its behavior, battle phrases, and a limited costume set. It can give you special "sidekick" missions ("Hey, look over there!").
(EDIT: Forgot, have this part of the system be a Gold exclusive!) Once you reach a certain high level, you have the option of letting your sidekick go out on its own. Your sidekick will leave you and become a fully playable character with the same Origin and Primary powerset, starting at level XX. The new hero will earn the title, "Ascended Sidekick". You'll have the option to rename your sidekick. Doing so will earn a custom title, "Formerly known as [Sidekick Name]".
Don't take me too seriously, I'm just spouting stuffs. :P
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
Return Defender to being a more socially-conscious Tony Stark, instead of a cornball Captain Marvel/Superman wanna-be in powered armor.
Kill all Anchorman references entirely. Rob Mahogany and all of that? Gone.
Return Foxbat to being a Deadpool-esque 4th Wall-breaking, ultra-genre-savvy madman.
Kill all McKenzie Brothers references in Canada.
Rename missions to remove silly pun names.
Rewrite villain and hero dialogue in missions so they don't sound like, A: Adults talking like 10-year olds (Cybermind in the latest mission series), B: Masterminds that are more about monologueing and posing, with plans a 10-year old could have thought up, or C: Racial/cultural stereotypes (Hi Pan, Ravenspeaker, nearly anyone voiced in Canada).
Having played Champions P&P since The Big Blue Book, then coming here, it often feels the setting was turned from a mildly-generic super-hero setting that still had it's own lore and history, to a either A: a spoof of super-heroes in general, or B: an intentional mockery of super-heroes in general.
1. Add player defined origins, and make mission text and NPC dialogue responsive to their choices.
2. Add a reputation system which gauges player relations with the following "factions".
(a) the media
(b) the general public
(c) law enforcement agents
(d) the people of Westside
(e) the criminal underworld
(f) the Star*Guard
And possibly: UNTIL, Primus, VIPER, Demon, the Scientific World, the Mystic World, Westside gangs, etc..
Missions can be taken which modify these, and so would player dialogue choices. Reputations would affect available missions, so those with a villainous bent get bad guy missions. Integrate villain side seamlessly into the world if possible. If a PC's reputation with the law enforcement reaches appropriate levels, they become wanted criminals, either as vigilantes (if their relationship with the people of Westside is high) or villains (if their relationship with the criminal underworld is high. If a PC is wanted, law enforcement NPCs attack the character on sight, and at extreme levels, hunt the PC in the open world in a manner similar to Nemesis minions.
Wanted criminals would be confined to their own social instances as well, though a neutral ground social instance (perhaps a Costa Azul resort accessible by the jet) would also be established where reputations don't matter, and maybe special instances for high reputations with certain factions (does VIPER love you? Visit the Magic Snake resort and casino!).
Players may buy a Redemption token to lose Wanted status and undergo a mission chain to clear their name.
3, Rework in-game missions to a) story missions and b) fixed events/open missions/lairs. Eliminate missions that exist solely for grind. Keep Foxbat and a few other missions for comic relief -- a comcs MMO should support a wide variety of tones -- but tone down some of the silliness elsewhere.
4. Add an Open PVP zone.
5. Keep the combat system as is. However, simplify the number of combat modifiers and eliminate Cryptic math.
6. Expand the nemesis system, adding different villain archetypes and starting and end missions, as well as missions tailored for their origins.
7. Increase the number of social instances or player hideouts so RPers can have a wider selection of sets for their scenarios.
8. Redo the major lairs from scratch (except TT), adding waypoints, sub-bosses, better boss battles, and better rewards. Improve queueing.
9. Improve incentives for PVP.
10. Allow rentals of the PH that permits the renter to evict players who troll.
11. Improve Ignore so someone who's on your list (and their power effects) are not displayed, at least outside of combat.
12. Moar emotes! Moar costumes! Add a character slot that is designated as a "secret identity", or a Become Secret Identity device which allows for a player to designate the appearance (as per any costume set), but which makes available a limited power set.
13. Raise the stupid Globals limit on Silvers.
14. Expand the endgame with a new campaign zone. Develop pre-crisis MI as a small minizone, and post-Resistance Multifaria as a mini-zone unlocked by completing Resistance.
15. Work toward a *big* debut for Mechanon, sooner rather than later. Add a Zerstoenstern lairs for Destroyer. Add a Eurostar,a Valak and a Borealis Rampage alert. Add V'Han's D-soldiers as a new faction. Adapt the PnP adventures Shades of Black and Day of the Destroyer (sorry, my bias is showing) into comic book series. Consider adding some of the following villains to the game: Josiah Brimstone, the Ultimates, Captain Chronos, Incubus, Utility, Samhain, and Nebula. Rework Necrull into more of a pulp scientist/pulp mage hybrid than a second tier Takofanes (a sort of Mr. Sinister of the CU, sans the orphan obsession). Develop a Tyrannon open mission, but keep that in reserve until the last day of the game, as a closing event. (just kidding.:))
16. Add the Foundry. Use the NWO editor, with an added boss editor, the ability to make 10 man missions and raids, a collaboration tool, and the ability to designate missions as social instances, and UNITY, Secret ID, Redemption, PVP and Nemesis missions. Let Cryptic rework some featured missions as mainstream content, adding cutscenes and customizing them further.
I'd also like to take a moment to agree with Thundrax.
Oh and Aceretriever.
1. Ok
2. no
3. no
4. please no.
5. Just use the NW Crafting with the location task unlocks that STO has...since they have that technology.
6. yes
7. yes but it's already been said but he devs that there currently are zero plans of us getting "Companions."
Edit: Possibly
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
1) Eliminate power trees/sets/whatever you want to call them and instead have a single pool of available powers balanced against each other.
2) Allow players to create their nemesis' (and his/her minions') build.
3) Add dual specs, or something equivalent. Make additional specs on a character part of the build tab functionality and sell them in the z-store.
4) Make freeform the default for all characters while expanding variety in the z-store.
5) Remove gear. Make progression about learning new powers, ranking them up, spec trees, advantages, and even devices.
6) Make rezzing another character an innate ability and add functionality to rez powers so that they perhaps work faster than the innate rez and have additional functions as well.
7) Revisit boss builds/AI, mechanics so that CC has some potential utility in a fight and so that there is a bit more to many/most combats than a DPS rotation + self heal rotation.
8) Add functionality to CC so that when used against a target that is immune it has an interesting and useful alternate effect.
9) Add the ability for targeting to ignore pets.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
If there's one thing I'd like to be redone, it's the gear. One of things CoX did brilliantly right with gear is to make them not look like gear at all, but "enhancements". A character would still have the same primary, defense and utility slots, but the gear themselves would be named after things like talents, inspirations, magical affinities or technological upgrades for examples.
Putting on helmets or breastplates for all of my heroes regardless of theme seems silly. Some of the current gear names just make me go "what?", like this certain piece of gear called "tympanic membrane". For those who don't know, that's the biological name for "ear drum". So basically what I'd be doing when using that gear is wearing somebody's, or something's ear drum on me. Fantastic and not gross at all.
My perfect CO involves completely gutting the combat system in favor of a more action based system that allows awesome power combos. The over all goal being very easy to play for the first time, but offering endless options as you learn more about various power combinations.
You have right hand and left hand weapons plus consumables. You can equip multiple hand weapons and consumables and switch between them during combat. I'd go with having 4 of each right and left hand weapons, giving you 8 hand powers to use at a time. Each hand has a strong and weak attack. Magic powers in the game are now items you equip in hand slots.
Weapons and powers can combo together. For instance, you have a pistol in each hand. You can use the left or the right pistol, plus being able to use both for a two-gun mojo style attack. You can have an ice ring that grants ice blast for the weak attack and ice burst for the strong attack. You can combine magic rings from each hand to create mix powers (rimefire) or much stronger attacks within the set. The weak attack from two ice rings could be frost breath and the strong attack could be avalanche.
Other combos: A glove that lets you punch someone (weak attack) or shoot lightning (strong attack). In fact, you can have a lightning glove on one hand and a fire glove on the other giving you a combo attack that zaps and flames your opponent (strong attack). Or you can combo the weak attacks for a two handed punch (like demolish) that does bonus fire and lightning damage.
Bonus: Big **** sword in one hand + fire glove in the other. Two handing your sword lights it in flames and lets you do additional fire damage. Assault rifle in one hand + lightning glove in the other means your bullets do additional electric damage when two handing.
You can still make a PA toon, just equip the Shoulder Mounted Gun in the right hand slot and the Chest Micro Missiles in the left hand slot. Or whatever. It would mean you are limited to only two weapons at once. However, there is more creativity allowed in that Shoulder Mounted Gun functions as a gat gun for the weak attack and shoulder missile for the strong attack. You could use both hand's strong and weak attacks to fire off 4 different things at once.
Most powers from CO could still exist, they'd just have a different way of being used. For instance: A strength scaling fist weapon could have haymaker as the weak attack and roomsweeper as the strong attack. A dex scaling glove may have One hundred hands as the weak atack and Dragon Uppercut as a strong attack. For kick attacks, equip a foot weapon. Fist and foot weapons don't have a look as a sword or gun would.
I would also have weapon / power strength, dexterity, intelligence requirements and scaling. For instance, a shotgun has a strength requirement of 75 if you want to fire it in one hand, however at 50 strength you can still use it, but you have to hold it in both hands. You can one or two hand most weapons, except for fist, glove, and foot weapons (because that's just silly).
Some weapons must be held in both hands to use them. Things like bows, bo staff, rocket launchers, and sniper rifles.
No power tiers. Every weapon and power will have its advantages and disadvantages, but can still be viable no matter your level thanks to stat scaling. (Big **** swords are slow, but do a ton of damage, scales with strength. SMGs are fast, but do less damage, scales with dex.) Some weapons can cause bleeds, some can poison, etc.
All powers can be a skill shot OR you can lock onto your target and powers will track.
Dodge is now a button you press. You can dodge anything if you time it right.
You can parry attacks and riposte.
I don't know about backstabs. If there is lag, then there will be lagstabs and no one wants that.
No equipment weight or burden.
Powers / Magic will use energy like they do now in CO, but it won't be anywhere near as easy to spam powers non stop. That's right, you'd have to think instead of blindly rushing in power spamming.
There will be exactly zero powers that root you in place.
Instead of a block button, you equip a shield. All the shield options in CO can be some sort of special glove or something. If you are two handing a weapon, you can also block with it. Bonus, you can equip a normal shield. Riot shield in one hand, pistol in the other. Small shields and glove shields can block or parry (weak / strong attack). Big shields can block or shield bash. Blocking drains energy meaning if you try to hide, your opponent can drain your energy bar by wailing on your shield. When your energy reaches zero, you can no longer block until energy is restored.
No weapons or magic will be so powerful that they can one-shot through a block. I don't have a problem with powers that can one-shot someone at base HP if they don't block, as long as there are very few of them and would probably require the right combination of powers. Why? Because you can dodge. These rules also apply to NPCs.
Consumable will play a larger roll. The stuff we have now in addition to temporary buffs. (adding a 1 minute fire buff to your weapon) There will be no items that grant any form of immunity to damage. The consumable slot will also be where devices are equipped. You have six slots you can equip stuff with. Pretty much like you can now with the device tray.
No vehicles in normal combat. They are for transportation only. OR vehicles can only be used in combat in special areas. IE air battles or space combat.
I don't know how lunges and TPs would work in this system. TPs can have their own slots, but not sure if they should be allowed in combat. Might have to make ranged powers much less ranged (ie no 100ft+ powers) and everyone can sprint.
No Gear. Let's face it, your gear is part of your costume, having slots for it is silly. Instead there will be slots that you can add mods to. Mods give small bonuses (no more than 5% each) to your character. Not sure on the exact number. Somewhere in the 5 to 10 range at level cap.
Example mods: crit chance, health, defence, crit severity, attack power, energy regeneration, healing power, faster sprinting, +50% damage at less than 20% HP, increased buff duration, etc.
No restriction on what you can put in each slot. That's right, you can do full crit chance mods, but you are completely sacrificing defence. This will give far more flexibility in character creation and force people to make choices instead of simply being a master of all trades.
Stats would have to be changed so that, say Con gives HP and some defence (vs everything). Int is what magic scales and lets you use more powerful magic items / spell and no longer has anything to do with cool downs, cost discount, or anything else. Str lets you use heavier weapons. Dex lets you use faster weapons. End and rec would be combined for energy management. Pre would go away and healing would scale with Int. Ego would go away. Weapons and magic would just scale with int, str, dex, or some combination. My intent is to have something more simplified, but allow you to be flexible with your stat choices. A new player might choose to take more con so they can make more mistakes, but a skilled player can go more glass cannon route.
It also means that having a ton of points in multiple stats is no longer possible. The number of stat points will probably need to be much lower.
Healing will be different. No longer will people be able to click heal on a whim. All healing has at least 1 second delay. If you heal in someone's face, expect to be stabbed or shot. Healing can be interrupted and punished. AoE healing will heal everyone on your team as long as they aren't a mile away, essentially making it a PBAoE. It will make healing in a team easier so that the focus can be on having fun in battle instead of rushing around to be in range to heal.
Single target heals will automatically target the lowest HP character in your group. As a support toon, you still have to watch your group's health, but you won't have to put up with tab targeting or slow click and cast. Support shouldn't be just healing and there should be a wider variety of ways you can support the team. I.E. Taunting, debuffs, buffs, other stuff.
There will still be self-only heals.
Healing is not spamable.
Healing will play a much smaller role in building. You don't have to bother with a healing spell if you are a skilled player and instead rely on healing items.
No res others skill. Everyone can help their fallen teammates up. Stand next to them and interact.
Active Defences: Dodge. Equip a shield and block.
Active Offence: Equip a weapon or spell then use it.
Passives: Probably gone. Mod slots take their place.
Stealth: Totally different. The chameleon spell in Darks Souls is awesome and there should be a spell like that. You can use it in combat to break your opponents lock onto you or hide for an ambush on a PvP map. It would also give reduced aggro range on NPCs. Broken on damage or action taken by you (you can walk around, but not dodge). Also: Hidden weapon. Hides any weapon you have equipped for 60 seconds. Also 2: A power that makes you look like an NPC. Breaks on damage taken or when you attack.
Crowd Control: Not sure. Utility power can be fun, but nothing that stuns someone while you slaughter them. A power that makes NPCs fight for you would be cool. Rooting someone in place so they can't move but can still block or attack is fine also.
Threat Generation.
No. None of this. However! There should be a taunt power. Enemies (especially bosses) can and will switch targets, but someone with a taunt can draw their attention to give another player a chance to recover. Everyone is largely responsible for their own survival with no need for tank / support / dps roles. You can still make toons like that, but it's optional.
Enemy progression.
No trash mobs. Not to say there shouldn't be easier enemies at lower levels, but combat should be fun. There is no reason to have enemies that are basically glorified cardboard boxes. As you go up in levels, enemies become "smarter" employing additional tactics. Level 1 enemies are still easy to kill, but can kick you to the curb if you let them gang up on you. That means if you run by a bunch of punks and take a wrong turn down an alley with no exit, you're going to get mugged and wake up in a dumpster.
Westside: Dumpsters are now respawn points.
There is a bunch of other stuff, but this is already long.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Engine: The cryptic engine is terrible. It was outdated back when the game was first released and it breaks way too often and seems almost entirely unreliable when adding new features. The physics alone could use a huge improvement, so i would love to see something more next gen like the new unreal engine. A super hero game should have increadible particle effects and visuals for the powers, and the Champions engine really leaves a lot to be desired... like black or white power coloring... Overall, a better engine would be a must.
Commitment: No more releasing things never to finish them. Preferably things wouldn't be released unfinished, but sometimes things happen and you need to release it and come back to it later. Something Cryptic is particularly guilty of and Champions alone is too full of. I would make it a very big deal that when things were released, they were never left as is... ever. A good example would be hideouts. We would release a hide out and make it nice, no leaving inaccessible rooms. Give it a patch or two to add a few fan suggestions, and things are good, right? Next when we add vehicles, we go back and add a garage for them to your base. Later on, we decide to beef up super groups, guess what? You're base now becomes a viable supergroup headquarters. If we release a feature, i would want that feature constantly made relevant to current game. None of this "Everything left behind" policy we have now.
MOAR CUSTOMZ!!!: One of the things CO does well, is customization, though the last year and a half or so has thrown it out the window. I think the game really needs to delve back into the art of customization. Vehicles need it. Bases need more of it. Powers need more of it, like emanation points. Costumes need less restrictions. Anything that could be done to add more customization and option to character creation would be considered, though obviously it wouldn't be able to implement them all.
Foundry: This is a great feature in STO and NW. Comic books would be a great world to have a tool like this, and Next Gen CO would definitely benefit from it.
Pricing: Down... by a lot. With how poorly made the vehicles are in this game, they are WAAAY overpriced. Hide outs aren't bad, power sets could be lower, and services are all over the place, in a bad way. These would need to be cheaper and more decisive. The goal is to make money, but be low enough that people figure, "i don't need it, but i might as well buy it because it's so inexpensive". After a year or two, maybe lower the prices of older items a little more to make them more enticing to new people.
Loyalty rewards: Lifers in CO would get a lifetime for CO:TNG at a huge discount. From $300 down to about $100, plus it would carry over certain vet rewards as well, just to give you that added boost from the start. Subbers would get a nice discount as well, for every month you subbed, you get that many months at a discount, though only $5 or so, and possibly $5 in Zen as a stippend until your loyalty reward runs out.
Better F2P/Gold differential: The basic game would definitely be F2P, but i would definitely want more reasons for players to go gold. I'm not sure how this would be done just yet, there would be considerably discussed as well as asked on the forums to get a good idea of how people want to be encouraged to sub to the game.
Listening skills: Cryptic is back and forth on this one, some times they listen very well and others, they really just give fans the finger and do what they want (arc, grinds, more useless currencies). For Next Gen Champions, this would have to be dealt with substantially. Granted, we can't put everything everyone wants in every time, it would be a goal that Player and Fan feedback would be the driving point to game additions. Polls and threads would be sent out by the dev team to discuss the things we want to put it, the direction of the game, and asking what the people wanted to see next.
Quality: Champions lacks this, but C-North is working on this for us. STO is seriously heading downhill on their end, and NW is just bad in a lot of little ways. Quality would be a must. New features wouldn't be started until bugs were fixed and people were happy with the state. I would be quite ashamed of my company and team if the game were allowed to become as broken or unpolished on a live server as Cryptic is letting their games become. Horrified. A lot of companies really aren't putting in the effort of quality, yet they're charging prices that are way above the effort they're putting in. That is quite possibly why fans are becoming so jaded and crytical. Don't get me wrong, some people are just going to be butts about things, but the games really should be higher quality for how much companies are pricing things.
Crowd Control: this would be made viable again. None of this Bosses are immune crap, everything would be done based on the skills you set up and put in. If you have some one that minmaxes the fudge out of putting some one to sleep, you can bet it will work on a lot of bosses. Immunity would only apply when it makes sense to that boss, otherwise they would just have high resistances, more so on elite modes. If you want just an average CC character, than they will still have a good chance to be able to cc bosses, or at least adds in a boss fight.
Heroic Combat: Partly this means more enemies at once. The weaker the enemy, the more they would group together. You're a super hero, not a civilian, the point is that i WANT you to to feel powerful, i WANT you to feel heroic, and frankly CO really doesn't have a lot of those moments for me. It my invincible tank keeps getting knocked around, THAT DOESN'T FEEL HEROIC!!! If my DPS guy is getting one shot by villains, THAT DOESN'T FEEL HEROIC!!! If i'm the one doing the knocking around and one shots, i will feel powerful. Me against several villains would make me feel way more heroic. Needing 5 people to fight One guy isn't heroic, no matter how hard you make the minions. Instead i would add an arrest Mechanic. You can knock out the minions or villains, but you would have to "arrest" them to take them out of the fight. Otherwise, much like real villains, they would get back up after so long: maybe 3-5 minutes? A well oiled team would obviously be better than 5 random heroes who just showed up to a crime in progress, but it would be an interesting mechanic if the specifics could be worked out.
Random world events: What CO has isn't bad, but it could be so much better. It would be a system based around geographical locations like banks, jails, gang turf, and a few other sites based on zone locations. Each event would be picked at random with a random villain (much like alerts, Maybe tied into?) but they would happen in the real world instead of specific instances (unless you enter a building or sewer or what not). Rewards would be randomized, and there would be a chance for special conditions like more than one villain, or a rival villain trying to undermine the first one as you were fighting them. There would be a lot of possibilities to havng a much more dynamic system for alerts and live world events that you could do in between missions.
Ditch the zones/questing setup completely. The MMO troupe where all the players are the special 'chosen one' needs to die. Its kind of lame that that you go around being the ONE and only person who saves the world, right along with everyone else. Instead, have a world map that's like a globe where you pick the city you want to be based in. You start of working your neighborhood, then progress you your whole city, state, country, continent, and then the whole world (and maybe even intergalactic beyond that?). As you progress you get bigger challenges, maybe join an organization or team, or if you want ... stay small time. Missions could come in three varieties: alerts(quick fights/raids), missions (long term sorties), and battlefields (semi-persistent large scale battles). With all of it being instance biased, you could easily have both fully constructed and procedurally generated content. I'm getting a headache just thinking of the logistics of that last part, but that's why you have more than one person working an MMO.
Which is the segway into my next thing, and I'm going to start out by saying I mean no insult to the current crew. You're doing a good job given the circumstances. But, this game has had a long term problem with the people behind it just not being loyal and dedicated to it. It started with Marvel pulling out and shooting the game in the foot on the way, and ended with the game being in the hands of people who seam to have been handed a strange mental patient with the instructions to just do what they can. If I could roll back to the Atari days, I'd try to keep as many people who thought of this game as their baby around, and not toss them off onto the next thing. Yes, maybe even Jack.
Last thing, lockboxes...oh god, why? Someone thought of a sleazier monetization option than on-disc DLC, and then made it worse by including random chance. Never shoulda happened. Pay to play is the way, with a cosmetics only cash shop and maybe some sort of limited free play option.
@X-Hero Game Overed.
NW "crafting" is terrible. When I want to do crafting ingame, I want my character doing it, not some anonymous hirelings.
Not to mention NW professions are watered down and dumbified, compared to STO doffs.
And if you did read the topic, this is What If... thread.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
Oh and NPCs would have more abilities and be more aggressive and have AI that makes them seek cover.
Otherwise there isn't much I would change about the game I play for hours everyday.
PS - this is really just a "what do you dislike about CO" thread masquerading as something else.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
If you make it like Neverwinter, can you disable the lock-on? Because that screws me up a lot when a mook passes in front of the boss I'm killing.
Wait? Whaaaa..?
Well first I would steal the SWTOR system. That way you can have some nice videos, a real story and maybe some choices that do something. So everyone gets their own campaign.
Since it would be hard to make a proper origin for super heroes (there are just endless possibilities) everyone would already be a hero at the beginning. Over the course of the campaign you get options, like do I kill the bad guy or do I arrest him. You can go the high road or take a more "for the greater good approach".
There should be direct results, like the villain you captured escapes. Confronting you with the consequences of not killing the bad guy. On the other hand, if you did kill him, maybe the once law abiding brother now turned evil for revenge.
Make us feel like we influence what happens. Make moral choices, include a bit of inner conflict. Depending on what path you choose you either stay the hero or slowly turn into a villain yourself.
Between your personal story quests there should be normal open world missions. They can tell short stories of their own or just be a simple stand alone mission. While the campaign takes us through the world we can solve local problems and get chances to group up with other heroes.
Now since this is a multiplayer game I would also make a coop campaign. Probably just a little alteration from the solo one. When you start the campaign you decide on your team. You can designate a main hero and sidekick, or just a group of equal heroes.
You can only start a mission if all of the group are present. It could include a few solo missions, like split up and each player gets a short separate quest but it would ultimately designed to play as a group.
Since it could always happen that someone stops playing the game there should be at least some way to switch out players, if really necessary. Maybe the option to "kill" a character story wise if that player wants to quit the campaign.
At max level I would introduce some open world pvp. For that one needs factions. Since two factions will most likely end with an imbalance in players I would make 3. How you you make 3 factions in good vs evil? Since evil is kind of popular I would make 2 evil factions. One "just wants to watch the world burn" faction and one "for the greater good". So the 2nd one would aim at rebuilding the world to be a better place but with rather brutal/cruel means.
For the pvp itself, each faction would get safe zones for people who don't want to fight. The contested zones could be a town. There would be capture points, like a police station. If an evil faction holds it one would assume they simple control the police now.
There could also be a hospital, for example. They would do evil experiments if held by villains and simply heal people if held by good. Such capture points would spawn npcs that defend said point and patrol a certain area.
Your faction gets small bonuses for stuff they control. I would also add some random quests in the area that can weaken a point or stuff like that. Maybe include some pure pvm quests that help your forces to let pve players participate as well.
The 3 factions would either be achieved by choosing at the beginning or one could make everyone start out as hero and choose his faction upon reaching max lvl. Making the choices in your personal campaign decide what you are in the end.
Well that is enough daydreaming for now.
My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
1- Look at Neverwinter. See their power tray set up, that's what I would start doing for Champions. The power system itself would be redesigned, each power set expanded and improved and made self sustaining, and the archetype system removed. The build buttons would become important again. As this would be a monumental change that would never happen let's begin describign it step by step;
2a - Gear would be changed to having specific stat set ups that are useful to everyone on them with better gear having 1 mod slot or two for higher level gear. These stats would be Power (affects damage and healing), Crit Chance, Defense, Regeneration, Leaching, Deflection, Penetration, Recovery (recharge speed and ultimate build up), and Movement.
3a - People would still choose 1 primary super stat and 2 secondary. Primary Super stat would increase damage/healing the player does. Secondary Super Stat would determine critical chance of the player. The tertiary (third) super stat chosen would determine recovery (recharge speed) of powers. Primary Super Stat would add 25 to a base stat and 15 to the secondaries thus at level 1 a player would have 35 in a primary and 25 in their secondaries. Every 5 levels the player gets 5 points to distribute among their stats as they see fit. Every 20th level the player gets 5 points distributed among all their stats.
4a- Players would get 3 power sets, a primary that opens up all tiers, a secondary that gives them two tiers and a tertiary that gives them one tier of powers to choose from. All power sets would be expanded and fleshed out offering more variance in choice giving wider range range to choose abilities and powers to fulfill roles they would prefer to be in. Control powers and such would be more effective, but not lasting too long and heal powers would become more preventive maintenance measures and such instead of trading one energy bar for a health bar. The roles themselves would undergo some alterations to give them a stronger presence. this is to allow players to fulfill the ideal of their character in design.
5a - Power buying system would undergo a change. Players would get a point each level. This point is used to determine which power the player will buy. Tiers open up after X number of points are spent. Each power will have 3 levels, each level increasing specific attributes of the power. Due to this change the level cap would increase to 50.
6a - Power tray would be redone, with powers being more streamlined and the builds button being more useful. Each tray will have three primary powers, two basic powers, a tab power and at least one ultimate power and two slots for passives. In addition the item slots will still be there plus the travel power slot. Former powers known as energy builders will have their damage increased for the new system, as other powers will actually have a CD associated with them instead of energy costs. The tab power is role specific, and the power that gets slotted there will take on special functions in that role.
7a - Roles would undergo a name change; Tanker, Scrapper, Blaster, Dominator and Defender. Tanker role would give increased defense, and stronger threat. A power slotted in tanker tab slot would come with an inherent taunt power that increases threat against the Tanker. Scrapper tab power would convert melee powers into a teleport dash style power, with an increased critical chance. Blaster power would increase the damage and effectiveness of a power, and turning it into an AE if not already. Dominator would increase the effectiveness of mez powers and add mez components to powers, and Defender would actually overcharge healing and leach effects.
8a - The nature of passives would be condensed down with their effectiveness changing based on the role chosen. Players would also choose the role passive at start. Their effectiveness would be balanced against the gear worn as well. Being in tanker role would increase their mitigative abilities such as more regeneration, defense, or deflection, which would be outside DR. Offensive roles would provide less mitigation but increase their offensive capabilities providing extra such as leach, more damage or DoT potential. Dominator would increase control and leach potential, and defender would increase group buffing and healing ability. In addition, players would be able to choose their travel power at character creation as well, and this power upgrades in effectiveness as they level. Questionite can be used to increase it as well and travel powers offer unmitigated movement increase outside of the normal movement increase of the stat.
9a - Shift defense would change based on role to. Tankers would get the standard block tool, with scrapper and blaster getting a dodge, with dominators and defenders getting a decoy effect. Using these would use up endurance, with blocks endurance going down based on how much damage is stopped.
10a - Ultimate powers would build up momentum. At a full charge a momentum power can be used. Players will be able to have two momentum powers slotted at a time, with each power set offering several ultimate power choices. The recharge time of momentum will be based on recovery and each attack will build up momentum.
11a - Critters would be reworked with not only the charge indicator but lines on the ground allowing for the new dodge mechanics to be utilized and providing more ease when defensives should be used. Critters would also be made tougher to provide better challenge.
2 - Maps would be expanded and more added; Millennium City itself would gain several new maps with the Ren Center and capitol area being a designated hub area with special events, with West Side would be expanded upon and more added to it. Downtown would be expanded upon and more added to it as well. In addition other special interest locations would be added such as MCU thus greatly increasing the city area and feel for a great number of players that have been wishing for it. Other map areas such as the desert, Canada and such will be expanded upon, with the Wasteland being made bigger and covering more area and potentially being its own zone with Grond rampaging around and possibly Area 51. Snake Gulch and Stronghold prison would also have its own zone areas that woudl be greatly expanded upon and adding to the lore of the area. Canada would have its basic area but also the addition of a small town area to protect.
3 - All lairs reworked for better team experience, and a queue system implemented. In addition some lairs turned into team lairs and more lairs added starting at level 10 to provide more team content for players wishing to seek it. The mechanics of the lairs would be reworked to provide more puzzle solving abilities instead of basic tank and spank mechanics. Level 50 players would enjoy the ability to go into Epic Level lairs from the previous 50 levels that offer better rewards, auras, and such.
4 - Perks renamed to achievements and the number required to complete an achievement drastically reduced. Instead of 100, 1000, 5000 for many kill achievements, they would be 10, 100, 500, except for the hardest of foes, which would be 1, 10, 50 instead. Top achievements would net special rewards that players could use to decorate their hideouts with.
5 - Hideouts would be reworked to allow players to decorate their hideouts more freely, and add achievement rewards to them as well to help make them unique.
6 - Super group bases would be added. The Super Group system would be expanded upon, using the rep system from STO, and allow players to build towards specific devices, upgrades and such. The layout of super group bases will also allow for those to be customized so that players can enjoy their super base building like they did in CoH.
7 - The changes of course would cause gear to be changed again, but with those changes new gear can be implemented that can offer more for the play style as well as potential set bonuses that players might enjoy better for their character.
8 - The Alert system would change completely, and become skirmishes. These are meant to be micro lair type events, where players have to reach a specific goal. Expanded upon compared to what they are now, basically, with the mobs instead having scary level modifiers instead of forcing a level change on players that just isn't wanted. Skirmishes can offer a reward of raw questionite during specific times of the day, as well as the questionite offered from doing a set number of them.
9 - Zone Alerts would be implemented for each of the zones. These are specific to that zone, thus for instance in West Side an alert would go out that would require the players to stop fires being set by the local gangs on buildings and such, while in the Canada an Alert would go up to stop VIPER from "recruiting" Project: Awakening candidates. These are 15 minutes alerts, and rewards will be based on participation. The rewards would be a random set of mods.
10 - Crafting system expanded upon and more like Neverwinter. Crafting would be more than just science, arms and magic. Things like a devices tree, leadership, as well as combat and trees specific to roles would be added that would focus on gear stats for those roles. The world resource nodes would be changed being universe instead of based on a craft type, but due to this change would have their number decreased, as well as them appearing in specific instances and lairs.
11 - Sidekick system implemented. Players will be able to hire sidekicks to travel with them. Sidekicks won't have the same power as a player but will provide additional utility in fights. Mastermind minded players would enjoy this use with pet powers as well, having a strong pet on top of normal pets. Current sidekicks in the C-Store will be changed to accommodate this level of change becoming full purchase sidekicks. They can be trained and upgraded as such and have limited ability to take upgrades and mods.
12 - Foundry System added. No brainer, with basic expansion of zones and such Foundry would add more to the game.
13 - New additional power types including more pet oriented power types for those who want to be Mastermind players, and not just animals or robots but actual things such as thugs. These powers could be added to existing trees, such as ninjas to martial arts, mercs to guns, and so on and so forth.
14 - Auction House would be completely reworked with a system similar to Neverwinter's, allowing for players to IE expanded search capabilities, better categorization, and such.
15 - Modding system would be changed to what Neverwinter's enchantment system is being changed to to allow for as you go upgrading, with the ability to use other mods as enhancers to upgrade a mod.
16 - Vehicle system removed as it completely threw balance out the window.
17 - A bounty system implemented where players can pick up tokens for specific zones to turn in for bounties at various bounty hunters to get the merits specific for their level.
18 - Nemesis System expanded upon to allow for great customization of personal Nemeses. More questlines involving the Nemesis as well as potential for zone events that take a random Nemesis from a nearby player.
19 - More quiet locations for players to RP in. Club Caprice itself being completely reworked to be more like Pocket D from CoH, maybe even using the music. Several of the other areas, like Club Incubi having special maps added and doorway additions for use with the Foundry.
20 - Dialog and text cleaned up throughout the game made less hokey, and sounding more super heroic, and removal of a lot of internet meme references and such. Not all, but many because it gets tacky after a while. In addition, potentially going through and adding voice over for all dialog in the game.
21 - Giving MC more of a city feel. Expanding Vibora Bay, and adding the swamp areas as well. Opening up all maps for players to access at all levels instead of level gating.
2 - Death Penalty the same as neverwinter's as well. As much as the star system was suppose to be a penalty, the lack of penalty for repeated dying and just letting zerg mentality rule basically made people not care about actually strategizing a fight and using mechanics to avoid death but instead just go ahead and die or not worry about the damage they take.
Yea, a lot of changes, I know many would not be liked one bit, others people probably want, but I feel that many changes would be needed to get Champions to a level that is not only acceptable to many but would also offer many new things, greater breath of customization and utilizing powers better and also creating a more rich, and deeper experience closer to the actual PnP instead of the current one that just has the names but not much else to do with Champions. And I know most of what I am suggesting would cheese off a lot of people, of course, so I know it wouldn't happen.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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- Some of the missions we have access to, allow them to be open access areas, like we unlock them after completion, so we can use them for RP, re-doing mission instances or simply for exploration purposes. Some mission maps are really beautiful in CO but are rarely used because they are locked behind missions, which in some instances are non repeatable.
- Using Juryrig's Time Machine to go back to certain crisis points in CO's mission chain, like the tutorial, Canada, VB, MI, Desert and Lemuria.
- In a similar manner to my first point, I'd make use of the different buildings like Harmon Labs etc that we have access to or even make Multifaria a new Zone, they have the basis from which to work from, and it could come with their own NPC's mission chains etc, perhaps an alternate levelling path for 6-15 and then 35-40 or something.
These are just superficial things, but in a re made CO, I'd like there to be some place for ALL types of combat types and support, especially in challenging instances, so that a diversity of builds would come into play and would complement instances instead of being a hindrance or unnecessary.
My Characters on PRIMUS
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anyhow, twg hit my major dream for co, an offline CO with optional online co-op would be my dream game. you play the game single player and you can go to specific arena or police centers where you can join people on either a locally hosted mission setup or a larger general online pool.
also, id like to see the different hero types having mission chains. street level, mystic, wuxia, tech, super science, basically hitting the big genres so that the experience has more replay value and your character feels more specific, you would be able to try other setups missions, but a straight through leveling path would be set for your origin. also, you could set your characters morality, from a traditional hero, to vigilante, to anti hero. i find going full villain tends to not work out for games that have tied it, but anti heroes would work as a compromise, thematically.
weaponizing the environment would be overhauled and made better. at present we have one animation for bashing with picked up stuff, and the time it takes to pick them up does not lead to a comparable rate of damage from just using your powers. I'd like to see weaponizing the environment have meaning, that would want to fight in areas full of stuff because it would give a tactical advantage. also, the animations would need work, I pick up a telephone poll and whack enemies with the middle of it? thats just weird.
Also, I would have added more buffs and debuffs.
I'm all for comedy in video games. But...
(Butt Stallion says "Hi,", by the way.)
You're worried about getting a Christopher Nolan movie, while some of us are tired of being in Marvin & Wendy Era Superfriends. If there's a happy medium, it's far closer to CoH, mostly because CoH was honest about the source material. Saving the world from the forces of evil tends to be Serious Business, mostly because villains (Foxbat, Joker, and Riddler aside) are a rather humorless lot.
CoH found humor in the natural interaction between the people involved in these big, superpowered adventures. Think of Justin and Shalice bickering like, well, a married couple in the ambient dialog in Fort Trident, or the Shining Stars putting up with Flambeaux, or a certain arms deal between Lord Nemesis and the Freakshow.
Or, for anybody who hadn't played CoH:
Video game comedy is hard. Read a review of Lococycle if you want to see what a bomb looks like. But I think we all agree that giving "Rob Mahogany" more screen time than Mechanon shows how far Cryptic has missed the mark here.
Meanwhile, back on track...
I'd just repost what Thundrax said, because I agree with almost all of it, but you've already read it. I've spent some of this bug fix time picking through source books and reading lore, and that leads me to think a public reputation system would be a wonderful twist for this game. Even if it doesn't lead to a villain faction, there's plenty of room between a Boy/Girl Scout hero who rescues kittens from trees between apocalypses and an anti-hero whose necessary dirty deeds are best kept out of the limelight.
That might be a way for origins to work into the game as a system. I get the impression from the source books that certain origins and/or power sets are better received by the public than others. For example (and correct me if I'm wrong, Thundrax), it seems that android/AI heroes are very thin on the ground in the lore, while Mechanon is a constant threat, and Dr. Destroyer still has a factory in the salt mines under Millennium City cranking out Destroids. That should translate into android-origin characters starting with their reputation in the hole relative to other toons, but with a faster rate of reputation gain/loss as players either reinforce or defy that public perception.
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
*snips out what doesn't apply to the following comment*
There's a thing called the Silver Age. Look into it since Champions Online is based around it and a certain best selling game (*cough* Freedom Force! *cough*) directly parodied it.
I clipped your quote, because I honestly agree with everything you said.
And JennyMachX is one of my favorite people, so I'm not kicking her belief around, but I have to admit, the camp is tiresome. When you picked up the box for CO (hypothetically speaking), you said "Oh, man- cool. Superheroes, like DC or Marvel!" When you open it up and start playing it, you're like "Oh. Like the Incredibles. Right." It's like there was an amazing idea, but it got rushed and the potential was replaced with clownish WoW-humor to meet a ship date.
Let me illustrate how the flow of 'comic relief' vs. 'story' in this game works:
"HOLY GOD IN HEAVEN, CYBERSOLIDER!!! Therakiel... that... that MONSTER. He just murdered the Champions- the paragons of justice of our world, the very people who've groomed you to be the hero you are... and the world is about to end at the hands of these fallen angels and sick cultists, all because we were betrayed by that... that fiend, Valerian Scarlet!"
30 minutes later:
"LOL get me a sandwich, b*tch."
I'm all for some comic relief. I could always do with some chuckles to break things up... but you don't litter the streets with the bodies of innocent men, women, and children and then go into fart jokes and dogs dragging their butts across the carpet. I'd even say most of the humor could -stay-, in some way or another... but it's just too much of a parody, and some would say a 'mockery' of comics as it is.
But this 'lighthearted campiness' makes me feel like I'm playing something designed for 7-year-olds. It's less 'Avengers' and 'Justice League' and more 'The Incredibles' and "Justice Friends" (Both of which are awesome in their own way).
But, enough of that.
I liked what Thundrax was saying about the social areas, except I would rather not have the separated 'villains' and 'heroes'. Other than that, hell yeah.
I think the villains and heroes in the game need more spotlight. I'm not talking about playing sidekick- but doing a mission with Defender should be a BIG DEAL. Missions for or with Champions should be ELITE. These are supposed to be the big rockstars of CO- they're not gonna take some newbie scrub that might be a liability on a mission, or even stoop down to busting up a multicultural gang meeting of non-powered lowlifes that your average group of deputies could deal with.
Impliment a reward/hit contract system. So I'm not a PvPer, but some d-bag harasses me. Let me dump resources (Even Questionite, perhaps) into at system that encourages the PvPers to take up the hit/capture on the player, and make this system one that rewards everyone involved in some way- or punishes them (temporarily).
Temporary titles could be a thing- to either mock players or celebrate their recent accolades. (Like, 'Destroid Destroyer' for highest score in a Mega-D invasion or 'Beaten like a dusty rug' for a horrible PvP loss, for example).
Introduce world-changing Mega-Events. A Mega-Destroid assault or Lemurian Invasion should be a BIG DEAL, and not something that people just forget about- or something that isn't noticable unless you involve yourself in it intentionally. Make these events change the world.
As Thundrax said, create the potential to ally yourself and work yourself into the graces of organizations in the game. You don't have to fight Viper, you can buddy up with them. Bonus costumes from those groups could be unlocked this way (Thus encouraging more replayablity). Sadly, I played through CoX for a full day and was quite disappointed to learn that despite helping some of the guys from a particular group, his homies were still jumping me outside the camp.
Make an entire Foxbot mission chain. You want humor? I encourage an entire series of missions to get to see more of this character (Because I actually like him).
Also, I like the ideas people had about scrapping gear altogether. I like the idea of Mods- why not make the entire 'gear' system Mods themselves? Besides, nearly anyone has Legion gear by now, or something close to it... other than the Legacy stuff, it's not even worth the bother. Why bother at all?
It's also been dead since before most of us were around, and thus spared us tons of kid-friendly and horrible writing. But that's just my opinion, and likely the opinion of the very people who killed it with their own hands.
We all know the Silver Age exists. A lot of people try to claim CO is a 'Silver Age' game, but the degree of content that is so far from Silver Age says otherwise- it's 'Not Silver Age', written by someone who could blame the bad, lazy writing on 'Inspired by the Silver Age'. Like how Quentin Tarantino can make a really crappy movie and say it was inspired by other really crappy movies- it's a BS excuse.
Champions IP is only MILDLY Silver Age. This game is based on that IP, except if you dug out the worst parts, scripted them in your own feces on the bathroom wall, and tried to cover it with pretty pictures from magazines.
My favorite was "Colossal Tongue." What exactly am I doing with this thing?
People who can shoot lasers from their eyes because they fell in a vat of radioactive chemicals from a planet of mutants? Not a genre that needs to be taken seriously. If I wanted "Superheros are Serious Business" I'd read whatever Marvel and DC are pooping out right now.
Wait? Whaaaa..?
If we wanted Silliness, we'd watch the Incredibles. This works both ways, and the average 'comic book fan' doesn't want clown-jokes. Otherwise, Marvel and DC would be 'pooping that out'.
The vast majority of comics readers aren't ignorant morons that ruin the genre. The people making them aren't stupid, either. Comics change with the times, and 'Golly Gee willikers' comics haven't been popular since a Kennedy was in the White House.
I can also tell by your response about 'radioactive chemicals' means you haven't bothered to give modern comics a chance- it seems more like you're criticizing your own comics, just FYI man.
Edited: Too rude. And back on topic:
MORE FLEXIBILITY IN FACES.
Uhh, if you think The Incredibles was silliness, you have to weird priorities.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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Don't get me wrong, I love it. I really do. But it's silliness, not an insult-it's a comical little cartoon about superheroes doing some comical things.
I also liked the comic books Wanted, The Boys, and Old Man Logan; but I don't want those things in a superhero MMO that's supposed to have an overall theme that can appeal to a wide variety of people. They're a bit -too- serious, way to gritty for CO. Hell, if you can read Wanted, like the main character, and not feel like you've got a turd in your soul- then you might be a horrible person.
Well, see there's...
Which then you can...
Is an middle-aged manchild that thinks putting blood and boobs in a book about a man dressed as a spider counts as "Adult" and wouldn't know good writing if it came up and took the backing boards out of the Mylar bags. Thankfully they're dying off and maybe one day the medium can grow again in the pile of dung they leave behind.
Wait? Whaaaa..?
"Comical"? They might have spun a few lighthearted moments into it (like almost everything involving Edna, until you realize what she was expecting an infant to face as the natural consequence of being the child of supers), but it wasn't exactly "A Night In Casablanca".
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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So, for example, you have a Blast, Sniper, AOE, PBAOE, Cone, Melee templates. Then you add procs.
Toxic Breath: cone, +DoT, Endurance debuff
Radiation blast: PBAOE, +DoT, carrier of secondary DoT effect
Sniper rifle: sniper, +piercing (ignore armor), +accuracy
And so on.
I'd have origins and origin 'power pools.'
Robot: +resist organic attacks (toxins, etc.), -resist tech attacks (ECM, electrical)
Improve the graphics.
Foundry.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
I should have mentioned this as well. The textures certainly could stand improved resolution, and technology to render cloth and hair has certainly improved in the four years or so since CO's launch.
Equally of course, Psychological Limitations would be far more restricted than the catch-all they can be in a game with a live GM. Some, like a temporary loss of stats if your damage registers as killing a target while you have Code Against Killing, could be reasonably administered by a computer; others, like an irrational fear of wild rats, could not (too many permutations of opportunities for it to arise, even in the absence of any actual rats).
More realistically, a system akin to STO's Duty Officers, where you can designate contacts to carry out predefined side missions that can net you Resources, trivial amounts of Questionite, possibly even a Nemesis Clue (for instance, if your Newspaper Reporter Contact critically fails a surveillance mission, he/she might be kidnapped by your Nemesis, leading into a rescue mission). Also, perhaps a Sidekick, similar to STO's Bridge Officers except limited to a single character that you would design. Your Sidekick would be at least five levels lower than you, able to assist but not overshadow.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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I prefer the "weaker writing" of the Silver Age and Bronze Age because it embodies what I personally think heroes should be like. Things that would NEVER happen RL like being bitten by a radioactive spider or having a beam of energy zap a statue you touched right after you were shot and bleeding to death (MINUTEMAN!), causing fantastic powers that allow the person to fight against the criminal monsters that menace the meek. The heroes of then had an almost mythological presence, like gods that'd come from Olympus to protect those who needed it. None of this BS of "Well that person is a racist, so let's not save him. Oh that person did so and so.. he's scum just like the rest. Let em rot."
I also prefer them to not be spouting obscenities left and right unless they actually have something wrong with them, like Deadpool. These are people we're supposed to look up to, dammit. This is why I personally don't read comics anymore. Sadly the games, films, and TV Series based on them are more entertaining than the actual comics themselves because they still know how to keep that heroic appeal and serious nature while making it fun and lighthearted enough. And if that makes me a bad person, so be it.
And by the way. I loved Batman and Robin.
Yeah, I think this idea has been passed around in previous threads... I love the idea. You could do all sorts of interesting, supers-themed things with the DOFF system. It's a wonderful source of 'implicit play,' where events and interactions suggest stuff going on behind the scenes.
As for power systems... Saga of Ryzom had (has?) a nifty system where an action (mundane or magical) has components that can be broken apart and reassembled.
Regular attacks could use varying amounts of fatigue (physical energy), take varying amounts of time, do damage or effects, and have a number of requirements.
Requirements include things like 'only after you dodge/block an attack' (so basically 'riposte').
You want a fast attack? Then it probably doesn't do much damage, or maybe it takes fatigue.
Or you have a strong/heavy blow, that requires more time or fatigue.
Magic was similar -- ranged aoe acid attack, long cast time! Or short cast time but takes lots of mana. or swap out acid for flame...
I'm not saying use EXACTLY this, but people have experimented with this sort of thing before.
As for Silver Age... I'm not a huge comics fan, but personally I can take it every which way. Yeah, dark, gritty, serious can be cool. But so can four color two-fisted ACTION!
Or Flaming Carrot.
Eh. Why does every game have to be Serious Business all the time?
Even The Avengers was pretty humorous at times (Puny God)
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
MMO's are mass medium, they can't afford to alienate any part of their playerbase.
Especially a superhero genre MMO. Playerbase here isn't as big as for fantasy titles and comic book crowd has a very different tastes.
Ideally CO remake could cater to all comic book fans, just for the sake of profit.
CO went one extreme, DCUO another (very similar to the modern superhero movies, but also not really like a printed comic book). Can't say I'm charmed with either.
With CO stylisation it also doesn't help how badly it's done. If this game had writing like Incredibles, with good characterisation and gags where it fits, instead of pushing forced "humor" everywhere, probably less people would complain.
Same if its cartoon stylisation was better made, with actual comic book outlining and even more stylised, but for example - looking more like DC animated universe.
It all boils down to quality.
If you think that having good characterisation and real personalities in story can't be done without turning it into MacFarlanesque Liefield fest (and then, Liefield books have no good real characterisation and story, they are exactly on the same level of quality and writing as Adam West's Batman - just different), then you probably never had in hands any comic books past very deep and only DC Silver Age. And certainly nothing of Bronze Age outside of DC as well.
Which invalidates your personal opinions entirely.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Give CO a more friendly and usable UI. I really hate the one that's currently set up.
Re-do the mechanics so that it feels more like an adventure game. Sorta like what NW has, but better. (You know, where you actually DODGE some attacks rather than have two stats based entirely on chance for this.)
Gut the tutorial and remake it from the ground up, teaching all of the basic mechanics (like BLOCK that just has a dialog box before you fight Black Talon that nobody EVER READS!)
Reintroduce Crafting, bigger and more powerful than ever!
And I will always be @DZPlayer122.
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Those dialog popups block gamepad input, so when you get the popup telling you to block if you're using a gamepad you can't block until you mouse over to the OK and click it but by that time it's too late and you've been knocked into something that leaves you stuck in permaflail animation. Unless you preposition the cursor to be over where the OK will be so you just have to click. Requiring that sort of knowledge shouldn't be a feature of a tutorial.
Although yeah, like the nemesis' henchmen, your hero will get his back-up. Ranging from cops to military personel, passing even by fanboys.
Emm, NW is hardly an action game and hardly has action-type dodge.
Nobody can seriously call an action game when attacks are rooting you in place and all dodge moves are just reskinned blocks (only some have teleport effect, and are speed boosts).
STO double-tap movement key would be more close to actual action based dodge (but only provided if it were done in a less laggy and clunky way).
NW is no more action game than CO, it merely has a more action-y UI.
It's interesting how easily people are fooled into finding something "new" in a game that is a basically combo of CO/STO, only hidden behind a newer user interface.