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FC.31.20131024.1 PTS Update

lordgarlordgar Posts: 267 Arc User
edited October 2013 in PTS - The Archive
This build is scheduled to hit PTS this evening, 10/24/2013

Release Notes:

Preview:

  • Rampage: Fire And Ice - We're turning on this 10-player queue on PTS to take stock and collect feedback before we begin tuning it for release. Stop contest-winning villains Kenina Blaze and Frosticus (formerly known as Freon II) from wrecking the city!

  • This is unfinished work with placeholders for loot, cutscenes, and supporting text. We're mainly looking for feedback on the fight itself.

  • Thank you for your feedback on the Takofanes II Lockbox! As we move out of the testing phase for this box, we're removing Cosmic Keys from the Debugger's Store on PTS. They'll return for future tests. Items from the box will remain in the Debugger's Store until after the box goes live.

  • Added an upcoming VTOL vehicle to the Debugger's store.


Powers:

  • Evasive Maneuvers: The Dodge Chance of this power is now 13/16/19% (down from 15/18/22%)

  • Night Warrior: The Dodge Chance of this power is now 8/12/16% (down from 10/15/20%)

  • Way of the Warrior: The Dodge Chance of this power is now 12/16/20% (down from 15/20/25%)

  • Lightning Reflexes: The Dodge Chance of this power is now 25/32.5/40% (down from 30/40/50%)


Veteran Rewards:

  • Veteran Rewards now unlock immediately for Lifetime Subscribers.


Please format any bugs you find in the following format:
Bug
Where it happens
What happens



Please stay on topic in this PTS thread. We use bug reports from this thread to decide whether a PTS build is ready to go live, and so we need to make sure we're seeing everything in it. Please do discuss the changes, but if you find yourself writing about something that isn't specific to what's on PTS, then that should probably go elsewhere.

In particular, do not report bugs from the live game in this thread, unless they are impacted by changes in the PTS build.
Post edited by lordgar on
«134567

Comments

  • fudgemonstafudgemonsta Posts: 1,591 Arc User
    edited October 2013
  • crosnightcrosnight Posts: 58 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    lordgar wrote: »
    • Rampage: Fire And Ice - We're turning on this 10-player queue on PTS to take stock and collect feedback before we begin tuning it for release. Stop contest-winning villains Kenina Blaze and Frosticus (formerly known as Freon II) from wrecking the city!

      • Lightning Reflexes: The Dodge Chance of this power is now 25/32.5/40% (down from 30/40/50%)

    FINALLY with new rampage but onward with the main gripe i got


    LR with 40% dodge @ r3? without any innate defence (last i checked)? yea..... LR is pretty much dead in the water again
  • avianosavianos Posts: 5,695 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    lordgar wrote: »
    [*]Veteran Rewards now unlock immediately for Lifetime Subscribers.

    Does that... does that... DOES THAT MEAN THAT IF I GO LIFETIME I WILL GET THE AVIAN WARRIOR PACK WITHOUT HAVING TO WAIT 3 FREAKING YEARS?

    e68.gif

    too bad i'm joining the army in 3 months. . .
    POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point
    Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergies
    Playing since 1 February 2011 90+ Characters (7 ATs, 83 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
  • keikomystkeikomyst Posts: 626 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    The only good thing in this patch is the 10 man Rampage and the LTS veteran rewards.

    The dodge nerfs on the dodge passives... that's a little far... >_>
  • kenpojujitsu3kenpojujitsu3 Posts: 1,320 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Veteran Rewards now unlock immediately for Lifetime Subscribers.

    Veteran Rewards now unlock immediately for Lifetime Subscribers.

    Veteran Rewards now unlock immediately for Lifetime Subscribers.

    Veteran Rewards now unlock immediately for

    Lifetime Subscribers.


    Veteran Rewards now unlock

    immediately for Lifetime

    Subscribers!!!
    ________________________________________________
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    Serving since September, 2009 / 65 Characters, 63 Level 40's
  • cptmillenniumcptmillennium Posts: 447 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Unlocking veteran rewards immediately for those who purchase a lifetime sub is a nice move.

    Trying to get on PTS now and my login attempts keep timing out.
    __________________________________________________
    The poster formerly known as Lightwave!
  • gerberatetragerberatetra Posts: 821 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    lordgar wrote: »
    Powers:

    • Evasive Maneuvers: The Dodge Chance of this power is now 13/16/19% (down from 15/18/22%)

    • Night Warrior: The Dodge Chance of this power is now 8/12/16% (down from 10/15/20%)

    • Way of the Warrior: The Dodge Chance of this power is now 12/16/20% (down from 15/20/25%)

    • Lightning Reflexes: The Dodge Chance of this power is now 25/32.5/40% (down from 30/40/50%)

    Look, if we're out to deal with the EM dodge combo problem, nerf that FIRST, not both... sheesh not everyone who has a dodge toon takes EM for the broken combo.

    Heck I take it primarily for the adv to loose aggro...

    Since there arn't that many aggro dumps and that the best non-magical one


    Here we are now going to the West Side
    Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
    Some may come and some may stay
    Watching out for a sunny day
    Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm


    In game as @forgemccain
  • kenpojujitsu3kenpojujitsu3 Posts: 1,320 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    For people complaining about LR being dead and such...test it....then retract your comments because it's not.
    ________________________________________________
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  • lordgarlordgar Posts: 267 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    The build is taking a while to reach PTS. I will update this thread once it's there!
  • gerberatetragerberatetra Posts: 821 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    For people complaining about LR being dead and such...test it....then retract your comments because it's not.


    >.>

    We can do math without much trouble. If you can't rely on your passive even half the time after maxing it out? No that's BS


    Here we are now going to the West Side
    Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
    Some may come and some may stay
    Watching out for a sunny day
    Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm


    In game as @forgemccain
  • purin1purin1 Posts: 433 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Kenpo is right on this one. LR is still one of the better options for defensive builds.

    I believe with Justice Gear and R7 mods, one will be able to obtain nearly 68% standing dodge chance. That's completely fine. Someone with relatively mediocre gear will be able to reach 60% standing.
    I strive to be the strongest swordsman alive.
  • kenpojujitsu3kenpojujitsu3 Posts: 1,320 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    >.>

    We can do math without much trouble. If you can't rely on your passive even half the time after maxing it out? No that's BS

    Math is theorycrafting. You might build like that but I personally don't. Just test it in application.
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  • strypewolvenstrypewolven Posts: 45 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    I have to agree this is approaching the point of overnerf on the dodge. Yay for getting all vet rewards with lifetime. That is a nice perk I've wanted since it happened on STO.

    I do offer a recommendation though. If dodge is to be nerfed this heavily, buff raw defense to increase scaling value and % mitigated. Otherwise, I forsee what some have already posted, a lot of tank builds are going to be in serious jeporady. Particularly Lightning Reflexes, Regen (have very low passive mitigation), and Personal Force Field (trouble enough keeping shields up without massive layering and still VIPER can straight bypass the shield).
  • cptcooltasticcptcooltastic Posts: 221 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    lordgar wrote: »

    Powers:

    • Evasive Maneuvers: The Dodge Chance of this power is now 13/16/19% (down from 15/18/22%)

    Soo... You guys decided to leave the Nerf Bat in the closet for this one. So you could drop a NERF NUKE on it instead?

    You nerfed it so hard that now you have to put 4 advantage points into it just to match the Rank 1 version currently on Live.

    Not to mention the longer recharge time placed on it so that it's not longer possible to maintain 2 stacks.

    That's a nerf of 8-10% dodge chance.:frown:

    I call overkill.
  • jamesbonnelljamesbonnell Posts: 169 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    I'm willing to test it. I'm just skeptical at this point.

    On the plus side - I won't complain about getting the veteran rewards immediately on my LTS.
  • bluhmanbluhman Posts: 2,409 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    >.>

    We can do math without much trouble. If you can't rely on your passive even half the time after maxing it out? No that's BS

    1. Don't forget that LR builds up dodge chance for each hit that it doesn't dodge. Even if it wouldn't be dodging more than half the time, it would, because it quickly ramps its own dodge chance quite high.

    2. 40% + 10% base dodge chance = 50%.
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  • gerberatetragerberatetra Posts: 821 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    We?re excited for these changes, bringing more diversity to all players and reducing the gap between optimized and average builds ? so we can balance future content to be more engaging to everyone.

    Stop nerfing the base line then!

    The optimizers will always screw up the curve.

    Nerf the top ends, I mean, a hard cap or something, this is making it harder to average builds w/dodge survivable.


    Thank god I don't have many dodge tanks or anything like it


    Here we are now going to the West Side
    Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
    Some may come and some may stay
    Watching out for a sunny day
    Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm


    In game as @forgemccain
  • kenpojujitsu3kenpojujitsu3 Posts: 1,320 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    bluhman wrote: »
    1. Don't forget that LR builds up dodge chance for each hit that it doesn't dodge. Even if it wouldn't be dodging more than half the time, it would, because it quickly ramps its own dodge chance quite high.

    2. 40% + 10% base dodge chance = 50%.

    Turn back now...

    Escalating Reflexes doesn't exist and the changes for LR to flat dodge that can actually benefit greatly from gear and other dodge powers as opposed to the live implementation that is dodge rating based and thus does not benefit much at all due to the DR curve will not help LR at all in actual application....
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  • purin1purin1 Posts: 433 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Soo... You guys decided to leave the Nerf Bat in the closet for this one. So you could drop a NERF NUKE on it instead?

    You nerfed it so hard that now you have to put 4 advantage points into it just to match the Rank 1 version currently on Live.

    Not to mention the longer recharge time placed on it so that it's not longer possible to maintain 2 stacks.

    That's a nerf of 8-10% dodge chance.:frown:

    I call overkill.

    Are you calling overkill with PvE in mind? Because if so, there is really no point in double stacking EM. Its threat wipe is more than enough, and PvE is easy as it is.

    In PvP on the other hand, it becomes a problem for those who may have relied on it. But people can still use it for its mobility and stealth.
    I strive to be the strongest swordsman alive.
  • bluhmanbluhman Posts: 2,409 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    The base of the problem was that really high end gear is all based off of dodge and crit. If you recently got a Vigilante defensive piece, I'm going to bet that it was the dodge or avoidance piece. And even if not, you likely slotted it with a lucky gem - by the way, those lucky gems are at least twice as expensive as an impact prism of the same rank.

    The effect they're trying to achieve is that the dodge-based passives and abilities operate about the same as they used to, while making the equipment less effective. Though, the way they decided to do this (changing the core curve, then adjusting powers) is a bit wonky, so of course there's going to be some period where the dodge stats of passives and such wildly fluctuate upwards and downwards as players cheer and cry.
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  • cascadencecascadence Posts: 505 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    lordgar wrote: »
    Veteran Rewards:

    • Veteran Rewards now unlock immediately for Lifetime Subscribers.

    Omg, omg, omg omg.... yesssssssssssssssssssss I hope this change makes it to live next week!!!! =)
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  • mrhinkypunkmrhinkypunk Posts: 1,569 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    gradii wrote: »
    no. do NOT nerf dodge passives even further while nerfing dodge as a whole. its a BAD idea. nerfing dodge rating was a terrible idea from the start but this makes it even worse.

    Oh my, please stop going on about this.

    Before this change LR was giving way too much dodge, you could get to pretty much 100% dodge chance with over 80% avoidance. It was actually giving much more than before and I don't know if any of you people who are complaining have realised by LR isn't exactly underpowered. Infact if used correctly it makes you more defensive than if you had any other passive.

    These changes are good and the change to EM once again will help balance massively. The funniest thing is a lot of these people, although casual, are PvE only players. This being said, how the hell is this change going to make anything harder for you?

    I may go test a few things in the PTS in a bit, but by the looks of the changes this will help balance.
  • gerberatetragerberatetra Posts: 821 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    These changes are good and the change to EM once again will help balance massively. The funniest thing is a lot of these people, although casual, are PvE only players. This being said, how the hell is this change going to make anything harder for you?

    Its not, it just means I've got no reason to use LR as a passive anymore.


    Here we are now going to the West Side
    Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
    Some may come and some may stay
    Watching out for a sunny day
    Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm


    In game as @forgemccain
  • purin1purin1 Posts: 433 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Its not, it just means I've got no reason to use LR as a passive anymore.

    10% base dodge.
    40% from LR.
    13% from R1 EM.
    I'll be nice and only give you 10% from gear.

    That is 73% dodge with little to no investment. Pump EM to R3, get the best dodge mods/gear possible, Fluidity, and various other powers like Lead Tempest, and you can still get close to, or achieve, 100% dodge. You also get Escalating Reflexes and DoT resistance.

    Stack it with IDF like I am sure many people will and LR will most definitely have reasons to be used.
    I strive to be the strongest swordsman alive.
  • cascadencecascadence Posts: 505 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    bluhman wrote: »
    The base of the problem was that really high end gear is all based off of dodge and crit. If you recently got a Vigilante defensive piece, I'm going to bet that it was the dodge or avoidance piece. And even if not, you likely slotted it with a lucky gem - by the way, those lucky gems are at least twice as expensive as an impact prism of the same rank.

    The effect they're trying to achieve is that the dodge-based passives and abilities operate about the same as they used to, while making the equipment less effective. Though, the way they decided to do this (changing the core curve, then adjusting powers) is a bit wonky, so of course there's going to be some period where the dodge stats of passives and such wildly fluctuate upwards and downwards as players cheer and cry.

    Pretty much my thoughts well summed up when it comes to dodge.
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  • gerberatetragerberatetra Posts: 821 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    purin1 wrote: »
    10% base dodge.
    40% from LR.
    13% from R1 EM.
    I'll be nice and only give you 10% from gear.

    That is 73% dodge with little to no investment. Pump EM to R3, get the best dodge mods/gear possible, Fluidity, and various other powers like Lead Tempest, and you can still get close to, or achieve, 100% dodge. You also get Escalating Reflexes and DoT resistance.

    Stack it with IDF like I am sure many people will and LR will most definitely have reasons to be used.

    People keep throwing EM in there, as though all dodge builds will and must have it, and like it works all the time and doesn't trade off offense.. .hmmmm

    Maybe we should nerf that instead?

    Also why Fluidity? Are we now narrowing the field of build that make LR work well

    Clearly this is being tuned against a min maxing build. As I thought


    Here we are now going to the West Side
    Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
    Some may come and some may stay
    Watching out for a sunny day
    Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm


    In game as @forgemccain
  • purin1purin1 Posts: 433 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    People keep throwing EM in there, as though all dodge builds will and must have it, and like it works all the time and doesn't trade off offense.. .hmmmm

    Maybe we should nerf that instead?

    Also why Fluidity? Are we now narrowing the field of build that make LR work well

    Clearly this is being tuned against a min maxing build. As I thought

    At what point would you stop calling it min/maxing?

    I only gave all of those examples to show that it can probably become the best defensive passive if you heavily invest in it.

    With gear and R3 LR alone you will be able to reach something like 67% dodge. How is that not enough?
    I strive to be the strongest swordsman alive.
  • gerberatetragerberatetra Posts: 821 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    purin1 wrote: »
    At what point would you stop calling it min/maxing?

    I only gave all of those examples to show that it can probably become the best defensive passive if you heavily invest in it.

    With gear and R3 LR alone you will be able to reach something like 67% dodge. How is that not enough?

    Look, I didn't want it nerfed at all.

    I mean if the additional things like EM and gear were what makes it possible to over clock dodge, nerf that first. Leave the base passive be..


    And who are these 'member of the community' they are listening to?

    The secret council of min maxers?

    Ah well, I don't really give to poops anymore.


    Here we are now going to the West Side
    Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
    Some may come and some may stay
    Watching out for a sunny day
    Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm


    In game as @forgemccain
  • kenpojujitsu3kenpojujitsu3 Posts: 1,320 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    So let me get this straight. 60% base dodge (passive, character and gear with no added powers) on top of the high avoidance and the escalating reflexes (and the defense stacking available to nearly anyone who wants it through various spec trees with no hit to DPS though not even remotely necessary)...is somehow not viable when far less than this was viable before On Alert came and made the game significantly easier by ramping our power levels and doing next to nothing for the enemies?

    Really wish people would put in the 5-10 minutes it takes to test stuff instead of fearmongering for no reason. Because half the complaints that I know to be untrue look downright silly at this point. Some of you are getting all worked up for no reason, no reason at all...and you'd know this quickly if you simply tested the stuff.
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  • megaskullmonmegaskullmon Posts: 313 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Uh i play a dodge tank..And i don't see an issues with this...and what min maxer councle?
  • blademaster5121blademaster5121 Posts: 956 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    For people complaining about LR being dead and such...test it....then retract your comments because it's not.

    LR isn't dead I don't see why people are complaining.

    Night Warrior and WotW are ****ed otherwise. for those who do math, NW has 26% base r3 and WotW now has 30% base, r3.

    Add heroic dodge gear? congrats, thanks to the rating nerf, you get a grand total of 9%, good job, you now have 35% for NW, and 39% for WotW. Two of the few remaining decent offensive passives are now ****, just like all the other offensive passives. GG.

    EDIT: this was not including the EM changes, since most people who took a dodge passive took EM, which has had both a CD increase and a dodge chance nerf of about 4-5%...lets see here... on live NW is ~45% and WotW is ~50% with heroic gear and EM was a 17% bonus r1....lose 4-5%...carry the 2....so you get.....the total loss between 14-15% with EM, approximately guesstimating.
  • kenpojujitsu3kenpojujitsu3 Posts: 1,320 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Personally, I have minimal (if any) problems with any of the offensive passives in the game for nearly any encounter in the game and my builds are anything but top secret (and I don't use and never have used the uber devices either). So I don't get this philosophy of "all the offensive passives suck" unless that means they suck if they don't do offensive passive damage while simultaneously having defense passive mitigation.

    Reminds me, I only have about 30 of them up, need to put up the remaining ones soon to be consistent.

    *Makes note*
    ________________________________________________
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    How to build a freeform character...the Kenpo way
    Demon Keypo's Building Guide
    Freeform Builds Directory (Last updated: 04/23/2016)
    Serving since September, 2009 / 65 Characters, 63 Level 40's
  • blkjackwilliamsblkjackwilliams Posts: 256 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    purin1 wrote: »
    At what point would you stop calling it min/maxing?

    I only gave all of those examples to show that it can probably become the best defensive passive if you heavily invest in it.

    With gear and R3 LR alone you will be able to reach something like 67% dodge. How is that not enough?

    How much avoidance are you considering? From what I've seen of the changes (I was away during the first few rounds of testing) avoidance is getting hit as well.

    Say you have 69% dodge and 70% avoidance(I'd say this is a lot of avoidance, what do you think is reasonable to achieve), that's an average of 48.3% reduction in damage over the life of a character. That's also a strong chance of getting bent over by Gravitar with a very unpleasant Force Cascade.

    I don't forsee this ending well, and hope they activate a few events while testing to see how this effects the ability to defeat enemies like Teleiosaurus, Mega-D's, Gravitar, and now the new fire and ice rampage they're adding.

    I think this is going to be ugly, to say the least, for melee damage role characters.

    Also I can't get on test to look, Quarry got hit on survivablility, but did they up the damage buff to account for that? Quarry has about 80% the damage buff that other offensive passives have, to account for it being more survivable on average. Now that that's not really the case, is the offensive part getting boosted?

    I really don't see this ending well.

    However if the change must be done, please consider putting the passives back where they were (Including Quarry), and making the Tank and Melee Damage roles not effected by the changes. Hybrid, Support, and Ranged Damage would get the proposed scaling levels. Losing the instant 30%/50% Dodge avoid starting point with gear would be a strong enough hit.
  • tditstdits Posts: 666 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    LR isn't dead I don't see why people are complaining.

    Night Warrior and WotW are ****ed otherwise. for those who do math, NW has 26% base r3 and WotW now has 30% base, r3.

    Add heroic dodge gear? congrats, thanks to the rating nerf, you get a grand total of 9%, good job, you now have 35% for NW, and 39% for WotW. Two of the few remaining decent offensive passives are now ****, just like all the other offensive passives. GG.

    EDIT: this was not including the EM changes, since most people who took a dodge passive took EM, which has had both a CD increase and a dodge chance nerf of about 4-5%...lets see here... on live NW is ~45% and WotW is ~50% with heroic gear and EM was a 17% bonus r1....lose 4-5%...carry the 2....so you get.....the total loss between 14-15% with EM, approximately guesstimating.

    So, what you're saying is that they now give similar defensive benefits to the other Offensive Passives?
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  • blademaster5121blademaster5121 Posts: 956 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Personally, I have minimal (if any) problems with any of the offensive passives in the game for nearly any encounter in the game and my builds are anything but top secret (and I don't use and never have used the uber devices either). So I don't get this philosophy of "all the offensive passives suck" unless that means they suck if they don't do offensive passive damage while simultaneously having defense passive mitigation.

    Reminds me, I only have about 30 of them up, need to put up the remaining ones soon to be consistent.

    *Makes note*

    I really can't argue this, but then I can say you can build an effective tank without even taking a passive, thanks to the way this system is. The point I was trying to point out is that defense is a hundred times more valuable in a passive than the raw damage bonuses. Offensive passive damage bonuses are worth very little. The real benefit of an offensive passive is the defensive benefit, other secondary benefits (Audacity on Quarry), and access to the offensive damage roles, which is where you get your actual damage boost.

    This is exactly why Quarry and Night Warrior were so valuable as offensive passives. Quarry gave insane amounts of dodge, and a great synergy with INT which further boosted your INT and Ego. Night Warrior had the entire stealth mechanic, defensive penetration (an actual damage boost that was worth getting) and even having a Haste buff.

    This is also why defensive passives are so valuable, because defense is worth a whole lot more, isn't additionally DRd beyond its set math, and since damage bonuses hit that DR so easily, Damage is easy to match without the offensive roles (Would you believe me if I told you that I had a friend who ran hybrid and got more DPS (and better hits overall) from Defiance instead of WotW?)
  • xcaligaxxcaligax Posts: 1,096 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    lordgar wrote: »

    Veteran Rewards:

    • Veteran Rewards now unlock immediately for Lifetime Subscribers.


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  • blademaster5121blademaster5121 Posts: 956 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    tdits wrote: »
    So, what you're saying is that they now give similar defensive benefits to the other Offensive Passives?

    Not exactly. In a way its worse due to the nature of dodge, but the defense itself is stronger than normal resistances....but honestly, with the way offense is I don't think defenses being lowered on offensive passives are a very good idea, unless they plan on actually being consistent and fix the problems that ALL offensive passives have.
  • thelostone0thelostone0 Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Well, to be fair, offensive passives that grant dodge are clearly superior to most other offensive passives. Reason being that the resistances other passives grant you are completely useless against anything else. "Oh, hey, I take half damage from fire attacks because of my 100% fire resist... Warlord still barbecues me and anything else flat out murders me if they hit me" as an example.
  • purin1purin1 Posts: 433 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    How much avoidance are you considering? From what I've seen of the changes (I was away during the first few rounds of testing) avoidance is getting hit as well.

    Say you have 69% dodge and 70% avoidance(I'd say this is a lot of avoidance, what do you think is reasonable to achieve), that's an average of 48.3% reduction in damage over the life of a character. That's also a strong chance of getting bent over by Gravitar with a very unpleasant Force Cascade.

    I don't forsee this ending well, and hope they activate a few events while testing to see how this effects the ability to defeat enemies like Teleiosaurus, Mega-D's, Gravitar, and now the new fire and ice rampage they're adding.

    I think this is going to be ugly, to say the least, for melee damage role characters.

    Also I can't get on test to look, Quarry got hit on survivablility, but did they up the damage buff to account for that? Quarry has about 80% the damage buff that other offensive passives have, to account for it being more survivable on average. Now that that's not really the case, is the offensive part getting boosted?

    I really don't see this ending well.

    However if the change must be done, please consider putting the passives back where they were (Including Quarry), and making the Tank and Melee Damage roles not effected by the changes. Hybrid, Support, and Ranged Damage would get the proposed scaling levels. Losing the instant 30%/50% Dodge avoid starting point with gear would be a strong enough hit.

    From what I remember, LR was able to reach 80% avoidance without even trying before any nerfs. It is most likely still in the ~70% range or higher if you try to boost it any more considering I can still hit over 60% avoid on WotW. I believe anything over 60% avoidance is more than enough, so LR's avoidance definitely puts it in line in my opinion. If others still have problems with it then oh well.

    I do not believe Quarry's damage boost was adjusted to "make up" for its hit to dodge. If you ask me, I'd suggest removing the Fair Game advantage and just making it part of Quarry itself if you want to keep it as a more balanced offensive passive.
    I strive to be the strongest swordsman alive.
  • kallethenkallethen Posts: 1,576 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    I have to agree with Kenpo on that it's better to actually do some "bash some foes" testing on the PTS and see how the Dodge rolls than just looking at numbers.

    And I say that even if the actual testing reflects the woes everybody is posting in response to numbers.
    100% of the world is crazy, 95% are in denial.

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  • purin1purin1 Posts: 433 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    laughinxan wrote: »
    Nerf nerf nerf, you guys really are trying to make me quit this game are you? nerfing lightning reflexes to be less than 60% dodging makes it a worthless passive, seriously it does.

    As it stands, when you have 50% chance to dodge or less, you start to see an ever-decreasing value in each % chance to dodge. A 50% chance to dodge, even with 80% avoid, is still only 40% damage mitigation compared to invuln not only providing enough resistance to nearly double someones durability but it gives absorb, defiance practically doubles everyones health bar and gives extra energy, regeneration can in a protracted fight cause someone to seem unnaturally durable. Even PFF would be more powerful then LR with this change. I am speaking from gameplay experience here, I remember when LR was less than 60% dodge and I remember when it scaled with attack animation durations, i'll give you a hint, LR really sucked back then and was ignored by anyone who was smart enough to take a super stat that worked with anything other than LR.

    People using lightning reflexes back then, dropped like flies.

    Now everyone using LR has to use dodge gear or die, limiting them further, anyone without immense globals will find LR unusuable with this change.

    To your first point, unless one is too lazy to obtain a heroic breastplate or an equivalent dodge boosting item, LR will reach that 60% dodge point.

    I used LR "back then," and I need to disagree with you when you say that people dropped like flies. Lightning Reflexes was an amazing passive, and I believe it still is. As long as you were not hit with a barrage of quick attacks, you were fine. Even when that did happen, you had Escalating Reflexes and heals to keep you up. Heck, blocking on its own can help enough to keep most people alive.

    Heroic Gear can be obtained for free if you put the few days' work to get them. Zero G's spent, done deal. You can even use blue gear to get around 60% dodge with LR.
    I strive to be the strongest swordsman alive.
  • purin1purin1 Posts: 433 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    laughinxan wrote: »
    It'll be required to have it now but heroic won't even get you to 60%, you'll only be at 57%. From the posts i'd seen everyones going to either be taking evasive maneuvers or thundering kicks because YES they are required, if your not dodging a clear majority of attacks theres a good chance you'll take full damage from a good majority instead. Not everyone has the best luck of the world but will still want LR for the theme.

    We're not even factoring in Fluidity or spec trees for extra dodge.

    Suppose one does not want to take Fluidity, EM, Thundering Kicks, or any other powers besides LR that boost dodge (and I honestly do not know why someone at least would not take Masterful Dodge if they pick LR for theme - MD alone is enough to survive Gravi's yellow bubbles on defensive builds). They can still achieve 60% dodge without much effort through gear and specs. If they farm for better gear, they can go well above that.


    If someone is still not satisfied with LR's performance after they actually try it out, then they will have to deal with putting effort into something to get it to work. Invulnerability and Defiance will be for easy direct defense while Lightning Reflexes will be for those who would like to build around there passive to become nearly invincible.
    I strive to be the strongest swordsman alive.
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