AoPM is the Smash alert drug of choice.

grengras · October 2013

At risk of this being nerfed further or being further ridiculed like I was when I first let slip about this in-game on the MC zone chat I thought I should post this for people...

We've all ran into smash alerts where no matter how hard we personally tried we couldn't solo them before time / conditions ran out. Frankly when all you have are level 6 people or 1-2 people quit before it starts it makes some of them almost impossible to complete no matter how much dps you can personally pour out.

Or so one might think. Believe it or not though there's a single passive power that can take even the most unlikely of teams into a group of victors. That skill is Aura of Primal Majesty.

Yes, I know it got nerfed like crazy from what it once was. And I know that at level 6 those other teammates won't have a huge attack increase because they're missing secondary superstats and gear. But I am seriously stating that even with those limitations AoPM gives enough oomph to turn certain losses into certain victories.

In fact the difference is so amazing that I have even made my pure dps builds into 'support' listed with AoPM in my passive slot and using pressence as one of the secondary superstats just for the AoPM bonus to be raised.

The reason this skill matters for timed alerts is multifold. The bonus applies to all stats for all teammates. That means every single teammate will have more health, more crits, more damage, faster energy regen, faster skill reusage. That is before even before applying superstats. In particular the things that matter for smash alerts is that the energy regen rate and crit rate are way up which allows those low levels who like to spam powers until energy is used up to be able to keep on spamming them.

My healers used to run with AoRP (Aura of Radiant Protection) and I loved it for making it less likely that people would die before I could heal them up. But every single time I ran into a bad team in a smash we'd lose. Since I switched over to AoPM I've only lost a total of 2 smash alerts on all of my alts combined. One had a troll deliberately pull the entire map and caused us all to die like dominos over and over, the other was a trainstop where 2 people quit early and we still had the boss down to around 10% when the timer ran out.

Meanwhile I've seen hundreds of smash alerts completed. Some of those even with teams composed entirely of tanks and supports or teams entirely composed of New Champion SG members and my healer. Trainstops have had an almost perfect success rate, the siphon has 100% success rate, etc.

I know someone is going to call me out for this one so let it rip. But for your own peace of mind test it first. Maybe if more people started carrying AoPM into smash alerts we'd see less people quitting cause of 'bad team makeups'.

spinnytop · October 2013

I'm pretty sure folks know that AoPM is good. Que for hero games, you'll see just how good it is

forrksakesexco · October 2013

Back in the old days it was like this...
http://arcane-sorcery.blogspot.co.uk/2009/12/aura-of-primal-majesty.html
Scaling with presence and not SS.

Unknown · October 2013

This content has been removed.

bludskarr · October 2013

gradii wrote: »

you don't need AoPM to win alerts. its not even that good. it all depends on what you do with it, which is true for ANY POWER. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

She's not saying you do. She's saying it helps with those alerts where you get a bunch of level 6-10's on your team.

fudgemonsta · October 2013

People just figuring out AoPM is silly strong still?

Better nerf Irelia.

Oh wait...

ashensnow · October 2013

grengras wrote: »

We've all ran into smash alerts where no matter how hard we personally tried we couldn't solo them before time / conditions ran out. Frankly when all you have are level 6 people or 1-2 people quit before it starts it makes some of them almost impossible to complete no matter how much dps you can personally pour out.

No, can't say that I've run into that situation.

AoPM can be a very effective component of a build though.

secksegai · October 2013

I hate to break it to you, but the reason smashes fail to low level groups is general lack of skill.

You could put 5 capable vets in level 6s and they can finish just about any smash, and they wouldn't have to resort to stacking aopm.

Aopm never lost much usefulness, and if/when dodge/avoid bites the dust, its very likely to become the next passive of choice, at least for those still around.

bludskarr · October 2013

secksegai wrote: »

I hate to break it to you, but the reason smashes fail to low level groups is general lack of skill.

You could put 5 capable vets in level 6s and they can finish just about any smash, and they wouldn't have to resort to stacking aopm.

Aopm never lost much usefulness, and if/when dodge/avoid bites the dust, its very likely to become the next passive of choice, at least for those still around.

Again, she's not at all saying you HAVE to have it or that people that know what they're doing can't make it at level 6. She's just saying that if you're stuck in a group with clueless low levels then it might make all the deference in the world.

agentnx5 · October 2013

Note:

AoPM has already been nerfed. TWICE! Once before On Alert's release, once after. There are other good passives, and the passive is NO substitute for personal skill or teamplay skill.

This topic clearly has a ulterior motive, one that is based on narrow-minded bias rather than application experience.

spinnytop wrote: »

I'm pretty sure folks know that AoPM is good. Que for hero games, you'll see just how good it is

It's actually not as strong as other passives can be, especially for PvE purposes like this topic is talking about.

Quarry and Invuln are favorites of mine, and also highly effective in PvP (especially with the upcoming dodge gear getting nerfed, which will hurt AoPM builds)

kenpojujitsu3 · October 2013

secksegai wrote: »

You could put 5 capable vets in level 6s and they can finish just about any smash, and they wouldn't have to resort to stacking aopm.

Unless our skills were not up to the task, myself and 4 other veterans tested this notion about a year ago and put our findings/experience on these boards for scrutiny. 5 of us at level 6 of various powersets with full heirloom gear was not enough to complete alerts the majority of the time. Much of these failures were not even close.

Edit: found my old post.

http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=2095745&postcount=589

KenpoJuJitsu3 wrote:

We just ran some very unscientific testing trying to simulate a group of random low levels.

Smashes used: Two Minute Drills (Black Talon and Medusa)
Players: @KenpoJuJitsu3, @Joh_Hota, @Quincy-St-Moth, @Meredy_Redleaf, @Sturmhaven
Powersets used: Electric x2, Darkness, Bestial, Single Blade
Gearing: Some toons were using heirloom gear and some were using the 3 starter pieces with 3 empty slots

Results:

All level 6's: Failure rate 100%. On average two of three life bars would be depleted before the time limit. The problem? Lack of energy, constantly having to switch back to energy builders proved problematic along with lack of AOEs to clean up trash mobs quickly enough to focus on the boss.

After enough of this we went on to add a single 'carrier' to test if one toon could make a difference. If unsuccessful we planned to move onto two carriers to find a threshhold of sorts. @Quincy-St-Moth brought in a level 40 while the rest of us were on level 6 or 7's (some of us leveled during this quick round of testing).

Four level 6-7's with a single level 40 geared in green secondaries, two blue primaries and a purple primary utility: Failure rate 0%. All it took was adding one level 40 to the mix to carry the team of 6 to 7's through the two minute drills.

I can compress and upload the video of some of these runs if needed. It's entirely my fault that they weren't all recorded as some of them I didn't press my record key between runs.

This was done without making a premade team. No one was told what type of toons/powers the others would bring and everyone did their gear differently and discussed it afterwards to keep it "random" during play.

ayonachan · October 2013

Using the same gear and same 'build' consisting of the same powers and the same everything while in the hybrid role:

Level 40 sidekicking to 30
Invulnerability - 52% Resistance 80 flat damage reduction
Concentration - 7.4%
MiniGun(1 concentration stack) - 81
Wrist Bolter(1 concentration stack) - 80

Level 12 sidekicking to 30
Invulnerability - 52% Resistance 80 flat damage reduction
Concentration - 7.4%
MiniGun(1 concentration stack) - 81
Wrist Bolter(1 concentration stack) - 80

Then I gave my level 40 her second secondary superstat(without re-equiping her gear)
Invulnerability - 54% Resistance 83 flat damage reduction
Concentration 7.4%
MiniGun(1 concentration stack) 84
Wrist Bolter(1 concentration stack) - 82

There you have it. With the same gear and same superstats you aren't any different than the level 12 sidekicking to 30.

Edit: Let me just make this clear. If you gave a level 12 the exact same gear and stat distribution as a level 40 and then they both sidekicked to level 30 then both will be the exact same.
Since the level 40 can invest into their spec tree more and have more powers and advantage points then they will output higher damage because the level 12 lacks what the level 40 has.
______________________

Seeing as how level 6s sidekicking up to 30 with are directly equal to level 40s(without a third superstat) sidekicking down to 30 as long as their stat distribution and powers are equal. The only true difference is that a level 40 has a third superstat(thus better power scaling) and more powers as well as the option for getting better gear and overall stats because of said gear.

So if it is possible for level 40s without a third superstat and utilizing less powers and less gear and overall stats because of said gear to fully destroy an On-Alert boss within the time limit then it is fully possible for a level 6 to do the exact same.

archaerest · October 2013

I don't think AoPM is as good as the OP says it is. I've seen smash alerts fail while running my current toon, which is a AoPM controller build. When you get low level players in the mix, they just don't tend to have the high damage attacks, gear, and stats necessary to accomplish smash alerts safely and consistently. Burst damage kills the lowbies, massive aoe damage in soul siphons kill the lowbies, aggroing more spawns than necessary kills the lowbies. Honestly, I'd rather have AoRP+IDF for smash alerts, as then even if we didn't have dps, at least people wouldn't be dying all over the place and it wouldn't look like such a mess.

I think part of the problem with how AoPM works, though, has to do with the fact that CO has three stats that affect a person's blue bar. I find it incredibly excessive. Really, we should only need one stat. Make endurance increase recovery and max energy, but at a greater rate. Get rid of stats giving power cost discounts. If endurance is giving enough of a blue bar boost, power cost discounts from stats wouldn't matter. With a one stat setup, AoPM wouldn't be giving 150 stat points towards a person's energy problems/advantage.

secksegai · October 2013

kenpojujitsu3 wrote: »

Unless our skills were not up to the task, myself and 4 other veterans tested this notion about a year ago and put our findings/experience on these boards for scrutiny. 5 of us at level 6 of various powersets with full heirloom gear was not enough to complete alerts the majority of the time. Much of these failures were not even close.

Edit: found my old post.

http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=2095745&postcount=589

I was thinking more along the lines of 5 people set on doing it just that it could be done, not just 5 vets testing various combinations.

For example, I wouldn't even be running a passive at lvl 6, like running epi and snp - then again, it's been so long since I was that level I might have been thinking level 8.

grengras · October 2013

archaerest wrote: »

I don't think AoPM is as good as the OP says it is. I've seen smash alerts fail while running my current toon, which is a AoPM controller build. When you get low level players in the mix, they just don't tend to have the high damage attacks, gear, and stats necessary to accomplish smash alerts safely and consistently. Burst damage kills the lowbies, massive aoe damage in soul siphons kill the lowbies, aggroing more spawns than necessary kills the lowbies. Honestly, I'd rather have AoRP+IDF for smash alerts, as then even if we didn't have dps, at least people wouldn't be dying all over the place and it wouldn't look like such a mess.

I think part of the problem with how AoPM works, though, has to do with the fact that CO has three stats that affect a person's blue bar. I find it incredibly excessive. Really, we should only need one stat. Make endurance increase recovery and max energy, but at a greater rate. Get rid of stats giving power cost discounts. If endurance is giving enough of a blue bar boost, power cost discounts from stats wouldn't matter. With a one stat setup, AoPM wouldn't be giving 150 stat points towards a person's energy problems/advantage.

There have been a lot of nay-sayers on this thread, but I'm not going to quote everyone.

I'm not saying that AoPM is 100% effective, as I posted originally there's still an occassional failure at those smash alerts. What I'm saying is just by switching my toons off of passives, like Aura of Radiant Protection, Lightning Reflexes, etc. which all either were purely defensive or purely self-helping or both, and instead to Aura of Primal Majesty the success rate of smash alerts is around 98-99% from the original 40-50% ish range. And successes have included times where the team was stacked full of 'New Champion #' players or non-damage prioritized players and even included times when 2-3 people quit before alert even began.

Now, if anyone can do a smash alert completely solo then obviously AoPM isn't as big of a deal and that slotted passive you currently use may be part of it so obviously you'd want to stick with what works for your build.

But for everyone else... it works, it really works. The loss of damage you get from dropping out of melee dps or range dps and into support (I prefer support because it helps the entire team not primarily me while still giving me almost as much as I'd get in hybrid) is offset by the fact that your energy is pretty much endless and your strength/ego plus your dexterity is quite a bit higher as well. Which means your numbers don't suffer all that much. Furthermore, because it buffs all 3 of your superstats any of your specialization skills that rely on superstats will give more oomph.

Furthermore, because you're buffing everyone not just yourself, if you do get a team with a good dps player on it, they will be able to dps even faster, which further carries the lowbies.

Meanwhile those lowbie players will have more oomph for their attacks, and be able to attack more often, so you don't have to carry them quite as much.

The big reason why AoPM matters so much is definitely as mentioned by the post I quoted, but also mentioned in my original post the energy regains. It makes power spamming, and using extreme costing powers more profitable for all 5 members of the team, which in turn makes those bosses die faster. Useful when you're on a timer.

PS: For non-smash on my healers I honestly prefer AoRP over AoPM and the other passives for my non-healers, but timed conditional missions is where AoPM excels. Only reason I don't switch off/on one passive for another is the high cost of retconning an aura + 2 ranks every time before going in and after coming out.

ajanus · October 2013

To be honest, AoPM makes people suck less. That's the whole point of using it in Smashes.

When you do Smashes, you can count on 3 of 5 people sucking in your group everytime. This is why AoPM appears to be so effective. People that are good already have built their toons to function without the use of AoPM (unless they use that as their passive as well).

When I run Alerts, I would MUCH rather see AoED than anything else because I know how much more effective it is for my toons. However, this also holds the assumption that everyone else has built a toon as solid as mine, which, sadly, is not usually the case.

rtma · October 2013

Maybe a way to balance it is to only boost Super Stats of your teammates? Mm, Yes, and a lil of everything for yourself but not boost your SS so much as your teammates.

thelostone0 · October 2013

I can attest to the value of AoPM as a support buff. I personally leveled a support toon who started out with AoRP and Compassion with bubbles, and that worked great, for what it did. I could literally turn off my travel power and type in /walk 0 for a dockside dustup and still ensure no one died because everyone was just that tanky. I still lost a fair number of alerts to factors my character was helpless to influnce, namely supremely bad builds who couldn't dps if their lives depended on it.

Then I switched to AoPM, sentinel's aura, compassion, and bubbles. Sure, i had to heal more often, and I couldn't go make a sandwich mid alert, but the fail rate went way, way down. AoPM is NOT overpowered... in fact a support toon in a support role is going to (as far as I can tell) going to do LESS for hyper-min-maxed people in their group than Joe Random who picks powers because they sound kewl. Reason being that diminishing returns that are so fierce for the minmaxer haven't set in as bad for Joe Random. It won't make you OP, but it'll bring you up to snuff a lot better. Particularly in terms of energy efficiency.

Aura of Primal Majesty's biggest power boost (again, in my humble opinion) is one that benefits lowbies the most. That is, by giving you a bunch of endurance, rec, and int, you end up able to actually use attack powers a lot more than your basically useless energy builders, which is a critical thing to achieve for timed alerts. Level 40s typically have enough cost reduction that it doesn't affect them as noticeably (aside from powered armor maybe, but then nothing can completely solve THEIR energy demands :biggrin: ) as it does that level 15. Low level gear simply doesn't have as much effective cost reduction as a level 40 in heroic, so they end up doing near-zero dps while building energy a lot more. AoPM fixes that.

AoPM is the Smash alert drug of choice.

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