Awright, champ, since asking around or reading threads on the topic is apparently asking too much of you, here's the lowdown:
When you have a charged power that causes knockback, tap it, don't charge it. That'll trigger KB Resist on your target, which will appear as a little yellow box under the target portrait with a picture of a boot in it. Keep doing that until the number on the box is 3. Then cut loose. As long as that says 3, the target's immune to knocking. Also, if anyone has a power that causes knock-up, that helps too - it still triggers Resist.
Well you responded to the wrong person with this, but they found it and read it anyway. FYI, your advice isn't actually all that great for a Behemoth player, since Room Sweeper will still knock quite strongly even on a tap.
What you should have told them if you really knew stuff about how to play a Behemoth, is that they should use their charge stun right before they use Roomsweeper, to turn the knock back into a knock up. Telling them "just tap" is just going to end them up being confused as to why their Roomsweeper is still knocking even though they're tapping :P
They are basically ****ing over the bigger population of players that prefer to run Smashes for XP. Smashes are quicker then those boring Grabs. Then to salt the wound they are nerfing the XP reward gained after the alert (for Grabs now).
It's funny... I was pretty sure that they were making both these changes - the level gating of alerts, and the change to one of each, rather than a random mix - because the players have been begging for it the whole time I've been here, and for quite some time before.
So yeah. The devs are making changes we asked for, and in doing so are "****ing over the players".
Isn't it amazing how often the "majority" around here changes membership?
You know finalslaps, to you those grabs might be boring, but I've seen way more people complain that Smashes are boring.. which makes a lot more sense, since they are often the most literal example of "stand n spam" content.
The XP reward being nerfed is not "salt in the wound"... in fact, it's a rather ingenous step towards solving another problem: They upped the XP bonus, meaning now players might actually consider using the alert for that and then going to do missions! Or at the very least, it brings us closer to that being an equally efficient option as just spamming alerts. So boo hoo, you won't be able to level to 40 in 2 days using just alerts.. cry about it!
Personally, the notion that I would be spamming Grab alerts to level has actually gotten me excited about leveling characters again.
Not really, no. Since the one that gives XP is still gated to 10 (because it's more useful to lower-level toons), if it's a Smash, there'll still be people whining that they lost because the lowbies somehow kept their uberl33t builds from winning.
We do already. I've seen them come up.
Aren't you excited though Jon? Can't you wait to see all those people who lectured us about needing to be at least level 15 to make a contribution to smash alerts try to rationalize why they still don't have a 100% success rate when everyone is 20+? Who knows, they might at some point either (a) look at themselves... or *gasp* (b) learn to just chill the heck out about losing now and then in a video game.
healers are awesome. NEEDING one always for lairs and such is not.
^ I agree with this sentiment, which is why I am glad I have freeform characters... oh, and that I know how to use blocks and travel powers to keep myself alive on my archetypes
Aren't you excited though Jon? Can't you wait to see all those people who lectured us about needing to be at least level 15 to make a contribution to smash alerts try to rationalize why they still don't have a 100% success rate when everyone is 20+? Who knows, they might at some point either (a) look at themselves... or *gasp* (b) learn to just chill the heck out about losing now and then in a video game.
Anyone putting the blame entirely on anyone below a certain level, or most specifically fresh level 6's for alert failures is unfair yes. Obviously player proficiency no matter the level of their character is sometimes lacking due to whatever reasons. Any realistic player would accept that there is a failure risk in the current smash alerts no matter the team setup.
However, the main issue with fresh level 6's jumping right into smash alerts have always been survivability, nevermind DPS issues. In fact, that can apply to anyone who's below level 11, the minimum level to get the basic mars stim pack, and without a self-heal power. There should be good reasons as to why people like to use level 15 as an acceptable minimum for smash alerts, and survivability should be one of them.
For that reason they should change the minimum level to get the basic stims to 10 with these upcoming changes to alerts.
Heres an Idea ban all AT's from alerts! And if you take this post seriously ur an idiot, you know who u are, you where gonna reply , you shame yourself, shameful :P
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Heres an Idea ban all AT's from alerts! And if you take this post seriously ur an idiot, you know who u are, you where gonna reply , you shame yourself, shameful :P
How about we ban Nepht from sarcasm? >:| Wait... that means they might get the idea to ban me from sarcasm!
They're nerfing the mass XP reward, but bumping up the XP boost afterward. This encourages people to actually go out and, you know, play the game instead of leveling all their toons to max in Alerts alone, leaving them at 40 with basic gear and no idea what goes on outside RenCen.
And Slaps, this is indeed a change many people have been begging for. Now, when you get, say, an APB daily, you don't have to spend hours hoping vainly that a Burst will show up to complete your trilogy - one of each type will always be up. And since the Alert itself rotates with a speed based on its popularity (the more people queuing for it, the longer it stays around), you won't have to wait that long until Ao' vanishes again and another Alert comes up without him. And last but not least, by changing which sort of Alert gives XP, which attracts lower-level characters, we reduce the number of people complaining that their Alert failed because the newbs couldn't put out enough damage to win in time.
Gama, I'm glad you're having fun knocking your opponents around the map. Perhaps, though, you could consider just running your solo missions? Because it's a major pain when my Savage Pounces on the target, gets in maybe a slash with his claws, then has to wait until his Pounce finishes its cooldown before he can attack again because the enemy is on the far side of the dock. You're having fun, but nobody else is.
Except there are people that have done the same leveling with missions dozens of times on different toons and they're tired and sick of them. When the content out there is crap the alerts were a lot better to do. Also fighting for objectives and waiting for those times for the objectives to spawn. Yeah something I don't really miss. With alerts there was no competition for doing missions that's something I would be missing.
Furthermore people could still fail Grabs when people are doing nothing but dying over and over having the wimps all leave. Also why the hell does the people that didn't ask for these changes have to suffer as well? It could easily be left the way it is with those additional changes.
That being said, it is possible that they are nerfing the xp rewarded at the end of the grab because of the xp gained for defeating the minions/villains on your way to the end. The only question is, will these cancel each other out or will the lose of xp make grabs sub-optimal in terms of both xp gained and time spent.
How long have you been playing this game? Killing enemies give almost zero XP. You can kill about 30 mobs and hardly get a 1% increment gain in XP.
For me, one of the MAIN reasons that I run Smashes repeatedly instead of running around the Open World doing missions is because you don't have to travel to get into your next mission. I just sit in Ren Cen and talk to buddies or goof off while waiting for Alerts to pop.
I have to wonder... If there was a way to do the Story Based Missions without having to run/fly around the zones would more folks do them over alerts?
Honestly, I think I would. But, maybe Smashes have just made me super lazy like that.
Except there are people that have done the same leveling with missions dozens of times on different toons and they're tired and sick of them. When the content out there is crap the alerts were a lot better to do. Also fighting for objectives and waiting for those times for the objectives to spawn. Yeah something I don't really miss. With alerts there was no competition for doing missions that's something I would be missing.
Furthermore people could still fail Grabs when people are doing nothing but dying over and over having the wimps all leave. Also why the hell does the people that didn't ask for these changes have to suffer as well? It could easily be left the way it is with those additional changes.
How long have you been playing this game? Killing enemies give almost zero XP. You can kill about 30 mobs and hardly get a 1% increment gain in XP.
You're suffering? ...holy crap are you doing video games wrong.
Can you explain just exactly how anyone is going to be suffering due to these changes? Oh no, now you'll have to do grabs while leveling instead of smashes... what's the problem?
Have you somehow convinced yourself that these changes are going to force you to do mission content?
Mission content? You mean those crappy kill this kill that, poor writing things I've done over a dozen times on multiple characters? No thanks. When they make new content that's when I'll go back to running missions because I'm sick and tired of doing the same things over and over. Refer to my first post on this thread to why I won't do mission content though I think you already got the gist of it on this post.
If you wanted to do mission content why are you forcing others to do it? You could simply have gone and done it. It's not like they removed it either. Why don't you do me a favor and go back to gassing people at your concentration camps buddy instead of trying to enforce your self-deluded ideals on this forum thank you.
For exactly what purpose do you want to force people to run missions? So you can compete with others for mission objectives and wait for a spawn that others have taken before you? Is that your idea of fun? Because you can keep doing that all you want there are people that don't want to go through all that again.
How long have you been playing this game? Killing enemies give almost zero XP. You can kill about 30 mobs and hardly get a 1% increment gain in XP.
How long? Let's see now, when did this game go F2P? 'Cause I started about a month or so later.
As for "not leveling through missions" - go tell that to Happifun Security System X-4, my oldest surviving toon, who leveled to 37 before Alerts were even a thing. (Probably would have maxed out, but I keep getting distracted by new shiny toons. I really out to buckle down and get Happifun all the way to 40 one of these days...) Maybe you just need to take out more than 30 mobs - there are areas outside RenCen, you know. Heck, you need to take out 150 mutant radioactive zombies in the Desert just to finish one mission, and who doesn't love slaughtering radioactive mutant zombies en masse?
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Wouldn't this mean that you are not doing alerts and so the changes are irrelevant to you ?
I am not trying to be dismissive, I am really just curious as to how alerts are not, "doing the same things over and over."
I think it's more "same thing over and over again-but with better rewards for time spent." Type of deal. So to some the repetitiveness is more tolerable since it only takes two minutes at most, for a much larger reward compare to actual missions. (Keeping in mind you could probably run multiple smash alerts the time it takes to travel to the quest location , complete it, and travel back to the quest giver.)
But Really I couldn't care less if I tried. Honestly surprised it took them this long to implement this change.
Holy crap, have you had this argument so many times that you don't even bother to read what you're responding to anymore? Wow. Let's go through this bit by bit and try to peel back the layers of this little world you've created for yourself.
Mission content? You mean those crappy kill this kill that, poor writing things I've done over a dozen times on multiple characters? No thanks. When they make new content that's when I'll go back to running missions because I'm sick and tired of doing the same things over and over. Refer to my first post on this thread to why I won't do mission content though I think you already got the gist of it on this post.
I never asked you to do mission content, nor did I ever suggest that you do mission content. Feel free to explain how you ever got that idea in your head.
If you wanted to do mission content why are you forcing others to do it? You could simply have gone and done it. It's not like they removed it either. Why don't you do me a favor and go back to gassing people at your concentration camps buddy instead of trying to enforce your self-deluded ideals on this forum thank you.
I don't do mission content... not anymore at least. I did at at some point a few times, then I got bored of it. My personal reasons for not liking mission content, which you might disagree with or whatever, are that it's really just "go here, kill this, come back" over and over... and the stuff you kill isn't really that interesting to fight. It's basically like if you take alerts, but add a whole thing where you have to travel to it... so really, I don't see the point in doing missions when I can just run Grab alerts, which to me are a lot more fun.
I personally can't stand the people who seem hell bent on pushing the agenda that everybody should have to run mission content. They just don't seem to understand that just because they find something more fun, that everyone should only have the realistic option to do that. I'm glad that Cryptic doesn't share this opinion, and is of the much smarter opinion that players should be allowed to choose what they want to run.
For exactly what purpose do you want to force people to run missions? So you can compete with others for mission objectives and wait for a spawn that others have taken before you? Is that your idea of fun? Because you can keep doing that all you want there are people that don't want to go through all that again.
See above for why you should feel kind of dumb right now.
I think it's more "same thing over and over again-but with better rewards for time spent." Type of deal. So to some the repetitiveness is more tolerable since it only takes two minutes at most, for a much larger reward compare to actual missions. (Keeping in mind you could probably run multiple smash alerts the time it takes to travel to the quest location , complete it, and travel back to the quest giver.)
But Really I couldn't care less if I tried. Honestly surprised it took them this long to implement this change.
This ignores the quests that you can start and turn in remotely via the crime computer. Not every quest can be started and turned in this way but a LOT can; that's a lot of potential travel time bypassed.
Wouldn't this mean that you are not doing alerts and so the changes are irrelevant to you ?
I am not trying to be dismissive, I am really just curious as to how alerts are not, "doing the same things over and over."
For me it is the speed at which it can be done that makes up for the repetitive nature of alerts.
That plus the fact that despite all the changes to Westside, the missions haven't really changed a whole lot since they came out 4 years ago. They've moved a few of them around, and splashed on some new paint but every character still goes through the same few sewers to get to Kevin Poe. Even in desert and Canada, though some parts have changed, the missions haven't
For me it is the speed at which it can be done that makes up for the repetitive nature of alerts.
The next question then is:
Is the point to get to max level as quickly as possible ? I tend to level fairly quickly myself so I am not attempting to portray that in a negative light, but what was said before seemed to indicate that repetition was the undesirable element, if such is not the case, and an impairment to speed leveling is the concern, then that seems likely to need a different argument.
Wouldn't this mean that you are not doing alerts and so the changes are irrelevant to you ?
I am not trying to be dismissive, I am really just curious as to how alerts are not, "doing the same things over and over."
I knew someone was going to bring that up and it's a good point. The reason why Smashes being repetitive is better is that at least you are in a team that would do it together. Even if there isn't any communication going on at least you are seeing new people doing new things every alert. Sometimes I learn a few new different tricks and powers to use from others. There's more life in alerts than in running missions solo is what I'm saying. And getting a team to run missions takes too much time that I don't want to bother wasting. Smash alerts are plug in and play that's why it's a better alternative than missions to me.
If they added new zones it would be fun for a while but it would also get old pretty quick. Got to remember that this game isn't meant to have a very explorative world. It's explorative in the sense of making different toons with unique builds and costumes. But not the adventuring Indiana Jones kind since these zones are fairly small to begin with.
I knew someone was going to bring that up and it's a good point. The reason why Smashes being repetitive is better is that at least you are in a team that would do it together. Even if there isn't any communication going on at least you are seeing new people doing new things every alert. Sometimes I learn a few new different tricks and powers to use from others. There's more life in alerts than in running missions solo is what I'm saying. And getting a team to run missions takes too much time that I don't want to bother wasting. Smash alerts are plug in and play that's why it's a better alternative than missions to me.
Excellent point. Quick and easy access to group play, even if it more than a bit chaotic, is what I enjoy about alerts. I have always enjoyed PUG game play. Met my wife that way.
Is the point to get to max level as quickly as possible ? I tend to level fairly quickly myself so I am not attempting to portray that in a negative light, but what was said before seemed to indicate that repetition was the undesirable element, if such is not the case, and an impairment to speed leveling is the concern, then that seems likely to need a different argument.
See this is the point at which you realize that the people complaining don't actually even agree with themselves, and they're just complaining for the sake of complaining. If someone wasn't okay with doing the same thing over and over, they wouldn't be playing this game at all, period. In fact, it's questionable if they would be playing any MMO... or video games in general.
See, people are actually willing to do the same thing over and over if that thing is actually fun on some level; which is why I run alerts... they're repetitive, but I have fun (mainly because it cuts out all the stuff I don't find fun about missions). The problem starts when those people convince themselves that there is some sort of "reward" that is more important than fun.. that's when those people start to do repetitive things that aren't fun for them.
This is why these people have such inconsistent arguments. They're constantly waving their finger around, trying to point it at the person who's victimizing them, ruining their play experience, and forcing them to do things they don't want to do... the problem is, that person is themselves. They're ruining their own fun and trying to find someone to blame for their own actions... how could they possibly have a reasonable, consistent argument under those conditions?
I knew someone was going to bring that up and it's a good point. The reason why Smashes being repetitive is better is that at least you are in a team that would do it together. Even if there isn't any communication going on at least you are seeing new people doing new things every alert. Sometimes I learn a few new different tricks and powers to use from others. There's more life in alerts than in running missions solo is what I'm saying. And getting a team to run missions takes too much time that I don't want to bother wasting. Smash alerts are plug in and play that's why it's a better alternative than missions to me.
If they added new zones it would be fun for a while but it would also get old pretty quick. Got to remember that this game isn't meant to have a very explorative world. It's explorative in the sense of making different toons with unique builds and costumes. But not the adventuring Indiana Jones kind since these zones are fairly small to begin with.
Have you still not realized that nobody is trying to convince you to run missions? This thread isn't even about "missions vs alerts", and at no point has it been.
Have you still not realized that nobody is trying to convince you to run missions? This thread isn't even about "missions vs alerts", and at no point has it been.
They upped the XP bonus, meaning now players might actually consider using the alert for that and then going to do missions!
Suggests otherwise, you and Jon have both made this same argument.
Some repetition is to be expected in a mmo, however four years of doing the same missions over and over should not be expected. Alerts, while definitely repetitive, are quick simple, and often introduce you to new players.
Through alerts I've met players I wouldn't have doing missions.
Through alerts I've met players I wouldn't have doing missions.
Is it possible that they are trying to fix that ? I am not trying to claim that this will succeed, but the idea that the devs are trying to increase the variety of options for the social aspect of an MMO here seems to have merit to me.
Fun is a very subjective term. People trying to impose their version of that subjective term is more of a problem.
Don't worry, those people don't actually have the power to force you to do anything... so actually, it isn't a problem at all, and never has been, and likely never will be
And yes, fun is a subjective term. However, I don't see what that has to do with what I said... since I was pointing out that there are people who aren't doing the things that they find fun, and instead are doing things they don't find fun because they want some sort of reward.
Again, you're making an argument just for the sake of making it... not because anyone said anything to the contrary.
Suggests otherwise, you and Jon have both made this same argument.
Some repetition is to be expected in a mmo, however four years of doing the same missions over and over should not be expected. Alerts, while definitely repetitive, are quick simple, and often introduce you to new players.
Through alerts I've met players I wouldn't have doing missions.
EEEEEH! Wrong again
"They upped the XP bonus, meaning now players might actually consider using the alert for that and then going to do missions!"
Where in there are you seeing that anyone is telling you to run missions? OH WAIT! I know! Let's simulate what would have happened if you had read just one more senteance after that:
"Or at the very least, it brings us closer to that being an equally efficient option as just spamming alerts."
^ see that right there? That's what completely ruins your little theory :P After all, how can both being "equally efficient" possibly be misinterpreted as being designed to convince people to do one over the other?
As for Jon, all he did was talk about how much he likes to run missions... and really, that's the only thing he ever does; he never actually tries to tell people that they should do one or the other, he just makes sure to point out that there are people who do actually enjoy missions and as such they aren't irrelevant to the game. Now the question is, why does someone else talking about what they like to do somehow make you think that they're trying to force you to do the same thing they want to do?
Me thinks you have a chronic case of "victim goggles"
SIDE NOTE: In an aggressive attempt to get past your acute case of selective comprehension, I'm going to point out once again that I don't run missions ever, and that I just run alerts constantly when I log in
You know how alerts work right? Alerts work because there are a lot of players who queue up. What happens to Alerts that aren't worth doing? Like Sky Command or Gravitar, for Gravitar people have to often beg in zone chat for players to queue up.
Should these changes make the Alerts no longer worth the time/effort to do, fewer players will queue up. If there aren't enough players to run alerts, well you see where this is going.
So in essence if I wish to keep playing the game then the only way to play becomes through the missions.
I think it's more "same thing over and over again-but with better rewards for time spent." Type of deal. So to some the repetitiveness is more tolerable since it only takes two minutes at most, for a much larger reward compare to actual missions. (Keeping in mind you could probably run multiple smash alerts the time it takes to travel to the quest location , complete it, and travel back to the quest giver.)
There are mission chains that give you faster exp than alerts, where you could collect maybe 10 missions and do them all in the same area. For example the Paintball Camp in Canada, or the Missions at Officer James Candy.
I always prefered to do a quick smash for the exp buff, and then do these missions. Now if i compare these missions to grab alerts i think the missions will be even better.
The problem with missions really starts in Vibora Bay where you have only these overlong crypts .. and with all kind of "new improved missions" in Westside or Canada where once quick missions like Subszero Servant or Brain behind the Breakout now also were made to overlong VB-Style Dungeons.
You know how alerts work right? Alerts work because there are a lot of players who queue up. What happens to Alerts that aren't worth doing? Like Sky Command or Gravitar, for Gravitar people have to often beg in zone chat for players to queue up.
Should these changes make the Alerts no longer worth the time/effort to do, fewer players will queue up. If there aren't enough players to run alerts, well you see where this is going.
So in essence if I wish to keep playing the game then the only way to play becomes through the missions.
^ doesn't make any sense. Can you explain how any of the alerts are going to become not worth doing? From my vantage point, they're actually going to become even more worth doing. Me personally, I'm actually excited about leveling up more characters now that Grabs are going to be the ones giving XP, because now I don't have to worry about my characters not being DPS enough... Grab alerts embrace all types of characters, meaning I can start leveling up tanks and healers again! Yay!.
I'm kind of bummed that I'll have to do my resource farming through Smash alerts... but at least it will be faster... especially faster than farming Mega Ds, plus I'll be doing it with other people! Still do wish they could make it so level 40s still get resources through Grabs.
Trust me on this, this isn't going to cause alerts to be abandoned... if anything, I see them becoming even more active now that the rewards are going to make a lot more sense. You're going to be dead wrong about this:
Where you around for the launch day nerf? The one that cut xp across the board? Do you remember the backlash and the fallout that occurred as a result? Imo, that was the event started us on the path we are on today, the one that eventually lead Atari to sell Cryptic and why CO became f2p.
People in general, basic history and psychology here, prefer the path of least resistance when they are working towards a goal. A lot of the level 40 content in game is ignored/abandoned because it is either bugged, takes too long for the available reward or it isn't fun.
When FM first came out what was one of the number one topics on the forum, aside from difficulty? The reward did not match up to the time and difficulty of the alert. The same went for Cybermind.
Now these grab alerts are going to be less rewarding then the current smash alerts. This means that the time vs reward is going to be altered. That will encourage less players to queue up, just as fewer players queue up for places like Sky Command and Gravitar (*With out people begging in zone*), fewer players will want to queue up for the xp alerts due to the length of time vs reward. With fewer players in the queue, fewer alerts will start.
Yes there will be some who will still be in queue, but grabs, from my experiences in the queues, aren't anywhere near as popular as Smashes, imo it is because of their length.
This isn't the first time a company has tried to change rewards for content, in most of those cases those changes weren't received well by their community. Eventually those changes were reverted or the game lost even more players.
It's hardly the "alert" changes leading me to prep to leave the game tho, its a combination of a number of factors, like the proposed dodge/avoid nerf, not seeing a new zone in the entire time I've been here, etc.
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
The kind of balance players want likely won't happen, (not saying they shouldn't try) now the balance as the devs want it perhaps is a bit more realistic, though I would rather have more content permanent.
Where you around for the launch day nerf? The one that cut xp across the board? Do you remember the backlash and the fallout that occurred as a result? Imo, that was the event started us on the path we are on today
Agreed, you only get one launch. IMO that was one of the worst decisions that I have ever seen in an MMO. It really damaged CO's launch.
Yeah the timing was terrible, which was unfortunate because I felt the post nerf numbers/experience was better.
This maybe, but when they made the nerf, they didn't take into account the gaps it would create.
That is why they added the kill 150 of x missions, and then later tried to further close the gap with the APs and CS. Though their length and the lack of substantial rewards, especially in the case of Serpents Lantern were simply bandaid fixes to the problem.
I'm not sure I agree with Grabs giving XP + XP buff rewards. It makes sense that the current Smashes give that kind of rewards when those are the alerts that have the highest risk-failure out of all the alert types.
The current Grabs are absolute cakewalks, and yet the small resource reward + resource buff (seriously, who cares about this buff?) seem justified considering that fact. Now they're thinking of giving the more valued XP rewards from Smashes to these cakewalk alerts?
I don't get it either. Is it a necessary change because of the levelgating changes?
Or what?
Is it so that new players start to play the actual mission content? Stop shoving the Alert window straight at players face at the beging the game.
CHAMPIONS ONLINE:Join Date: Apr 2008
And playing by myself since Aug 2009 Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
I guess one reason for this change, by making us level some in westside and with more mobs in the grabs to kill it means that they can shove more lockboxes in our faces.
Where you around for the launch day nerf? The one that cut xp across the board? Do you remember the backlash and the fallout that occurred as a result? Imo, that was the event started us on the path we are on today, the one that eventually lead Atari to sell Cryptic and why CO became f2p.
I also recall power changes on launch day as well that didn't go over well.
I am happy to see alerts re-assign awards.
Max-level toons will get the resource benefit from a 2 minute alert.
Lower-level and non-DPS toons will really get to help out in the longer alerts, earning XPs.
Burst alerts, well, they won't be doling out the mods and skill node bonus to toons that can't use them.
My level 40 main toon does resource alerts all the time, to get the paltry 3.5 G, and to get the resource boost for an hour. Now, I will be able to get those same benefits in only 2 minutes, rather than the 5-10 a Grab alert currently takes.
On a separate note, I won't feel so bad putting my level 15 toon into an XP alert, since it won't be timed anymore. Likewise with healer toons.
I love the coming changes to alerts, and wish they started out this way.
I kinda like the long missions, I just think they should grant more xp since they are so long.
Yeah, thats the problem that every mission gives the same exp no matter if you need 3 or 30 minutes to do it. So why kill 50 groups of Vampires in VB or things like that when you get the same exp for a short quest on MI where you maybe also can do 10 quests in the same time.
The exp should really be better for longer missions.
Where you around for the launch day nerf? The one that cut xp across the board? Do you remember the backlash and the fallout that occurred as a result? Imo, that was the event started us on the path we are on today, the one that eventually lead Atari to sell Cryptic and why CO became f2p.
People in general, basic history and psychology here, prefer the path of least resistance when they are working towards a goal. A lot of the level 40 content in game is ignored/abandoned because it is either bugged, takes too long for the available reward or it isn't fun.
When FM first came out what was one of the number one topics on the forum, aside from difficulty? The reward did not match up to the time and difficulty of the alert. The same went for Cybermind.
Now these grab alerts are going to be less rewarding then the current smash alerts. This means that the time vs reward is going to be altered. That will encourage less players to queue up, just as fewer players queue up for places like Sky Command and Gravitar (*With out people begging in zone*), fewer players will want to queue up for the xp alerts due to the length of time vs reward. With fewer players in the queue, fewer alerts will start.
Yes there will be some who will still be in queue, but grabs, from my experiences in the queues, aren't anywhere near as popular as Smashes, imo it is because of their length.
This isn't the first time a company has tried to change rewards for content, in most of those cases those changes weren't received well by their community. Eventually those changes were reverted or the game lost even more players.
There's only one problem with your argument.
Alerts are still going to be the faster way to level, and on top of that they will still allow players to avoid all the travelling and npc-clicking of missions.
So if everything you just said about players wanting to take the fastest path to reward is true, then how does that transfer into alerts being abandoned?
Keep in mind that there will also always be a Grab alert available in the que, and only one; everyone is going to be concentrated into the same que, and that que is going to be available 24/7.
This isn't the launch day nerf... it's not even close.
This maybe, but when they made the nerf, they didn't take into account the gaps it would create.
That is why they added the kill 150 of x missions, and then later tried to further close the gap with the APs and CS. Though their length and the lack of substantial rewards, especially in the case of Serpents Lantern were simply bandaid fixes to the problem.
It didn't actually create gaps, it just ensured that you had to do almost every single quest.
Crime Computer 2.0 was really helpful. The problem was that it was a player creation and so not everyone knew about it.
Comments
Handle: @drgmstr
"Embrace your dreams"
Come Check Out My PRIMUS Database Page!
Well you responded to the wrong person with this, but they found it and read it anyway. FYI, your advice isn't actually all that great for a Behemoth player, since Room Sweeper will still knock quite strongly even on a tap.
What you should have told them if you really knew stuff about how to play a Behemoth, is that they should use their charge stun right before they use Roomsweeper, to turn the knock back into a knock up. Telling them "just tap" is just going to end them up being confused as to why their Roomsweeper is still knocking even though they're tapping :P
Isn't it amazing how often the "majority" around here changes membership?
You know finalslaps, to you those grabs might be boring, but I've seen way more people complain that Smashes are boring.. which makes a lot more sense, since they are often the most literal example of "stand n spam" content.
The XP reward being nerfed is not "salt in the wound"... in fact, it's a rather ingenous step towards solving another problem: They upped the XP bonus, meaning now players might actually consider using the alert for that and then going to do missions! Or at the very least, it brings us closer to that being an equally efficient option as just spamming alerts. So boo hoo, you won't be able to level to 40 in 2 days using just alerts.. cry about it!
Personally, the notion that I would be spamming Grab alerts to level has actually gotten me excited about leveling characters again.
Aren't you excited though Jon? Can't you wait to see all those people who lectured us about needing to be at least level 15 to make a contribution to smash alerts try to rationalize why they still don't have a 100% success rate when everyone is 20+? Who knows, they might at some point either (a) look at themselves... or *gasp* (b) learn to just chill the heck out about losing now and then in a video game.
^ I agree with this sentiment, which is why I am glad I have freeform characters... oh, and that I know how to use blocks and travel powers to keep myself alive on my archetypes
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Anyone putting the blame entirely on anyone below a certain level, or most specifically fresh level 6's for alert failures is unfair yes. Obviously player proficiency no matter the level of their character is sometimes lacking due to whatever reasons. Any realistic player would accept that there is a failure risk in the current smash alerts no matter the team setup.
However, the main issue with fresh level 6's jumping right into smash alerts have always been survivability, nevermind DPS issues. In fact, that can apply to anyone who's below level 11, the minimum level to get the basic mars stim pack, and without a self-heal power. There should be good reasons as to why people like to use level 15 as an acceptable minimum for smash alerts, and survivability should be one of them.
For that reason they should change the minimum level to get the basic stims to 10 with these upcoming changes to alerts.
And if you take this post seriously ur an idiot, you know who u are, you where gonna reply , you shame yourself, shameful :P
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
How about we ban Nepht from sarcasm? >:|
Wait... that means they might get the idea to ban me from sarcasm!
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Except there are people that have done the same leveling with missions dozens of times on different toons and they're tired and sick of them. When the content out there is crap the alerts were a lot better to do. Also fighting for objectives and waiting for those times for the objectives to spawn. Yeah something I don't really miss. With alerts there was no competition for doing missions that's something I would be missing.
Furthermore people could still fail Grabs when people are doing nothing but dying over and over having the wimps all leave. Also why the hell does the people that didn't ask for these changes have to suffer as well? It could easily be left the way it is with those additional changes.
How long have you been playing this game? Killing enemies give almost zero XP. You can kill about 30 mobs and hardly get a 1% increment gain in XP.
I have to wonder... If there was a way to do the Story Based Missions without having to run/fly around the zones would more folks do them over alerts?
Honestly, I think I would. But, maybe Smashes have just made me super lazy like that.
You're suffering? ...holy crap are you doing video games wrong.
Can you explain just exactly how anyone is going to be suffering due to these changes? Oh no, now you'll have to do grabs while leveling instead of smashes... what's the problem?
Have you somehow convinced yourself that these changes are going to force you to do mission content?
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
If you wanted to do mission content why are you forcing others to do it? You could simply have gone and done it. It's not like they removed it either. Why don't you do me a favor and go back to gassing people at your concentration camps buddy instead of trying to enforce your self-deluded ideals on this forum thank you.
For exactly what purpose do you want to force people to run missions? So you can compete with others for mission objectives and wait for a spawn that others have taken before you? Is that your idea of fun? Because you can keep doing that all you want there are people that don't want to go through all that again.
As for "not leveling through missions" - go tell that to Happifun Security System X-4, my oldest surviving toon, who leveled to 37 before Alerts were even a thing. (Probably would have maxed out, but I keep getting distracted by new shiny toons. I really out to buckle down and get Happifun all the way to 40 one of these days...) Maybe you just need to take out more than 30 mobs - there are areas outside RenCen, you know. Heck, you need to take out 150 mutant radioactive zombies in the Desert just to finish one mission, and who doesn't love slaughtering radioactive mutant zombies en masse?
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
There isn't that much fun killing multiple mobs in a targeting and click game really. If I wanted that I would play Left4Dead or something.
Wouldn't this mean that you are not doing alerts and so the changes are irrelevant to you ?
I am not trying to be dismissive, I am really just curious as to how alerts are not, "doing the same things over and over."
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
I think it's more "same thing over and over again-but with better rewards for time spent." Type of deal. So to some the repetitiveness is more tolerable since it only takes two minutes at most, for a much larger reward compare to actual missions. (Keeping in mind you could probably run multiple smash alerts the time it takes to travel to the quest location , complete it, and travel back to the quest giver.)
But Really I couldn't care less if I tried. Honestly surprised it took them this long to implement this change.
I never asked you to do mission content, nor did I ever suggest that you do mission content. Feel free to explain how you ever got that idea in your head.
I don't do mission content... not anymore at least. I did at at some point a few times, then I got bored of it. My personal reasons for not liking mission content, which you might disagree with or whatever, are that it's really just "go here, kill this, come back" over and over... and the stuff you kill isn't really that interesting to fight. It's basically like if you take alerts, but add a whole thing where you have to travel to it... so really, I don't see the point in doing missions when I can just run Grab alerts, which to me are a lot more fun.
I personally can't stand the people who seem hell bent on pushing the agenda that everybody should have to run mission content. They just don't seem to understand that just because they find something more fun, that everyone should only have the realistic option to do that. I'm glad that Cryptic doesn't share this opinion, and is of the much smarter opinion that players should be allowed to choose what they want to run.
See above for why you should feel kind of dumb right now.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
This ignores the quests that you can start and turn in remotely via the crime computer. Not every quest can be started and turned in this way but a LOT can; that's a lot of potential travel time bypassed.
For me it is the speed at which it can be done that makes up for the repetitive nature of alerts.
That plus the fact that despite all the changes to Westside, the missions haven't really changed a whole lot since they came out 4 years ago. They've moved a few of them around, and splashed on some new paint but every character still goes through the same few sewers to get to Kevin Poe. Even in desert and Canada, though some parts have changed, the missions haven't
The next question then is:
Is the point to get to max level as quickly as possible ? I tend to level fairly quickly myself so I am not attempting to portray that in a negative light, but what was said before seemed to indicate that repetition was the undesirable element, if such is not the case, and an impairment to speed leveling is the concern, then that seems likely to need a different argument.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
I knew someone was going to bring that up and it's a good point. The reason why Smashes being repetitive is better is that at least you are in a team that would do it together. Even if there isn't any communication going on at least you are seeing new people doing new things every alert. Sometimes I learn a few new different tricks and powers to use from others. There's more life in alerts than in running missions solo is what I'm saying. And getting a team to run missions takes too much time that I don't want to bother wasting. Smash alerts are plug in and play that's why it's a better alternative than missions to me.
If they added new zones it would be fun for a while but it would also get old pretty quick. Got to remember that this game isn't meant to have a very explorative world. It's explorative in the sense of making different toons with unique builds and costumes. But not the adventuring Indiana Jones kind since these zones are fairly small to begin with.
Excellent point. Quick and easy access to group play, even if it more than a bit chaotic, is what I enjoy about alerts. I have always enjoyed PUG game play. Met my wife that way.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
See this is the point at which you realize that the people complaining don't actually even agree with themselves, and they're just complaining for the sake of complaining. If someone wasn't okay with doing the same thing over and over, they wouldn't be playing this game at all, period. In fact, it's questionable if they would be playing any MMO... or video games in general.
See, people are actually willing to do the same thing over and over if that thing is actually fun on some level; which is why I run alerts... they're repetitive, but I have fun (mainly because it cuts out all the stuff I don't find fun about missions). The problem starts when those people convince themselves that there is some sort of "reward" that is more important than fun.. that's when those people start to do repetitive things that aren't fun for them.
This is why these people have such inconsistent arguments. They're constantly waving their finger around, trying to point it at the person who's victimizing them, ruining their play experience, and forcing them to do things they don't want to do... the problem is, that person is themselves. They're ruining their own fun and trying to find someone to blame for their own actions... how could they possibly have a reasonable, consistent argument under those conditions?
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Have you still not realized that nobody is trying to convince you to run missions? This thread isn't even about "missions vs alerts", and at no point has it been.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Fun is a very subjective term. People trying to impose their version of that subjective term is more of a problem.
This
Suggests otherwise, you and Jon have both made this same argument.
Some repetition is to be expected in a mmo, however four years of doing the same missions over and over should not be expected. Alerts, while definitely repetitive, are quick simple, and often introduce you to new players.
Through alerts I've met players I wouldn't have doing missions.
Is it possible that they are trying to fix that ? I am not trying to claim that this will succeed, but the idea that the devs are trying to increase the variety of options for the social aspect of an MMO here seems to have merit to me.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Don't worry, those people don't actually have the power to force you to do anything... so actually, it isn't a problem at all, and never has been, and likely never will be
And yes, fun is a subjective term. However, I don't see what that has to do with what I said... since I was pointing out that there are people who aren't doing the things that they find fun, and instead are doing things they don't find fun because they want some sort of reward.
Again, you're making an argument just for the sake of making it... not because anyone said anything to the contrary.
EEEEEH! Wrong again
"They upped the XP bonus, meaning now players might actually consider using the alert for that and then going to do missions!"
Where in there are you seeing that anyone is telling you to run missions? OH WAIT! I know!
"Or at the very least, it brings us closer to that being an equally efficient option as just spamming alerts."
^ see that right there? That's what completely ruins your little theory :P After all, how can both being "equally efficient" possibly be misinterpreted as being designed to convince people to do one over the other?
As for Jon, all he did was talk about how much he likes to run missions... and really, that's the only thing he ever does; he never actually tries to tell people that they should do one or the other, he just makes sure to point out that there are people who do actually enjoy missions and as such they aren't irrelevant to the game. Now the question is, why does someone else talking about what they like to do somehow make you think that they're trying to force you to do the same thing they want to do?
Me thinks you have a chronic case of "victim goggles"
SIDE NOTE: In an aggressive attempt to get past your acute case of selective comprehension, I'm going to point out once again that I don't run missions ever, and that I just run alerts constantly when I log in
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Should these changes make the Alerts no longer worth the time/effort to do, fewer players will queue up. If there aren't enough players to run alerts, well you see where this is going.
So in essence if I wish to keep playing the game then the only way to play becomes through the missions.
**takes away Nepht's big red crayon and scowls**
Heres a gold star and a smiley face!
*
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
There are mission chains that give you faster exp than alerts, where you could collect maybe 10 missions and do them all in the same area. For example the Paintball Camp in Canada, or the Missions at Officer James Candy.
I always prefered to do a quick smash for the exp buff, and then do these missions. Now if i compare these missions to grab alerts i think the missions will be even better.
The problem with missions really starts in Vibora Bay where you have only these overlong crypts .. and with all kind of "new improved missions" in Westside or Canada where once quick missions like Subszero Servant or Brain behind the Breakout now also were made to overlong VB-Style Dungeons.
MEGA-REWIND.
Dodge nerf, obviously.
RIP Caine
^ doesn't make any sense. Can you explain how any of the alerts are going to become not worth doing? From my vantage point, they're actually going to become even more worth doing. Me personally, I'm actually excited about leveling up more characters now that Grabs are going to be the ones giving XP, because now I don't have to worry about my characters not being DPS enough... Grab alerts embrace all types of characters, meaning I can start leveling up tanks and healers again! Yay!.
I'm kind of bummed that I'll have to do my resource farming through Smash alerts... but at least it will be faster... especially faster than farming Mega Ds, plus I'll be doing it with other people! Still do wish they could make it so level 40s still get resources through Grabs.
Trust me on this, this isn't going to cause alerts to be abandoned... if anything, I see them becoming even more active now that the rewards are going to make a lot more sense. You're going to be dead wrong about this: But the good news is, you'll be happy that you were wrong
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
People in general, basic history and psychology here, prefer the path of least resistance when they are working towards a goal. A lot of the level 40 content in game is ignored/abandoned because it is either bugged, takes too long for the available reward or it isn't fun.
When FM first came out what was one of the number one topics on the forum, aside from difficulty? The reward did not match up to the time and difficulty of the alert. The same went for Cybermind.
Now these grab alerts are going to be less rewarding then the current smash alerts. This means that the time vs reward is going to be altered. That will encourage less players to queue up, just as fewer players queue up for places like Sky Command and Gravitar (*With out people begging in zone*), fewer players will want to queue up for the xp alerts due to the length of time vs reward. With fewer players in the queue, fewer alerts will start.
Yes there will be some who will still be in queue, but grabs, from my experiences in the queues, aren't anywhere near as popular as Smashes, imo it is because of their length.
This isn't the first time a company has tried to change rewards for content, in most of those cases those changes weren't received well by their community. Eventually those changes were reverted or the game lost even more players.
It's hardly the "alert" changes leading me to prep to leave the game tho, its a combination of a number of factors, like the proposed dodge/avoid nerf, not seeing a new zone in the entire time I've been here, etc.
Bug Fixes and Game balancing first, please.
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
The kind of balance players want likely won't happen, (not saying they shouldn't try) now the balance as the devs want it perhaps is a bit more realistic, though I would rather have more content permanent.
Agreed, you only get one launch. IMO that was one of the worst decisions that I have ever seen in an MMO. It really damaged CO's launch.
Yeah the timing was terrible, which was unfortunate because I felt the post nerf numbers/experience was better.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
This maybe, but when they made the nerf, they didn't take into account the gaps it would create.
That is why they added the kill 150 of x missions, and then later tried to further close the gap with the APs and CS. Though their length and the lack of substantial rewards, especially in the case of Serpents Lantern were simply bandaid fixes to the problem.
The current Grabs are absolute cakewalks, and yet the small resource reward + resource buff (seriously, who cares about this buff?) seem justified considering that fact. Now they're thinking of giving the more valued XP rewards from Smashes to these cakewalk alerts?
It doesn't seem right to me.
Or what?
Is it so that new players start to play the actual mission content? Stop shoving the Alert window straight at players face at the beging the game.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
I also recall power changes on launch day as well that didn't go over well.
Max-level toons will get the resource benefit from a 2 minute alert.
Lower-level and non-DPS toons will really get to help out in the longer alerts, earning XPs.
Burst alerts, well, they won't be doling out the mods and skill node bonus to toons that can't use them.
My level 40 main toon does resource alerts all the time, to get the paltry 3.5 G, and to get the resource boost for an hour. Now, I will be able to get those same benefits in only 2 minutes, rather than the 5-10 a Grab alert currently takes.
On a separate note, I won't feel so bad putting my level 15 toon into an XP alert, since it won't be timed anymore. Likewise with healer toons.
I love the coming changes to alerts, and wish they started out this way.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Yeah, thats the problem that every mission gives the same exp no matter if you need 3 or 30 minutes to do it. So why kill 50 groups of Vampires in VB or things like that when you get the same exp for a short quest on MI where you maybe also can do 10 quests in the same time.
The exp should really be better for longer missions.
There's only one problem with your argument.
Alerts are still going to be the faster way to level, and on top of that they will still allow players to avoid all the travelling and npc-clicking of missions.
So if everything you just said about players wanting to take the fastest path to reward is true, then how does that transfer into alerts being abandoned?
Keep in mind that there will also always be a Grab alert available in the que, and only one; everyone is going to be concentrated into the same que, and that que is going to be available 24/7.
This isn't the launch day nerf... it's not even close.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
It didn't actually create gaps, it just ensured that you had to do almost every single quest.
Crime Computer 2.0 was really helpful. The problem was that it was a player creation and so not everyone knew about it.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.