So if Quarry is taking a big hit, how about the situation of those who take Quarry r2 and Fair Game advantage with secondary statted and gear supported Con for self healing as a form of defense too?
I have to say that all the alts I use Quarry on, sacrifice r3 to instead have Fair Game, and have Con as a stat, and I think it's totally worth it that way.
What do you build gurus say about that case, in the new scale for dodge numbers about Quarry then?
You know, while doing all this evening out, maybe now would be a good time to give Aspect of the Beastial the Endorphin Rush Advantage. ^_^
Yeah, it should have been given that a long time ago. BUT, I made a suggestion earlier that would be so much better for all none Dodge/Crit based builds. That being...
NEW CLICK HEAL
This Heal applies a Heal Over Time effect on you(just like BCR.) A click heal that is capable of stacking, with a reasonable recharge time would be good. The heal scales with your Offense or Defense Stat(much like Resurgence scales with CON), whichever is higher(Or Scales with CON if OFF/DEF scaling won't work for any reason.) Has very minimal FX(or None at all) so that it is able to work with a LARGE amount of Thematic Builds. This would be the Default Self Heal for your average Off/Def builds, while BCR is the Default Dodge Self Heal, and Crits have Conviction. All other Heals in the game are highly thematic to there respective sets. OFF/DEF builds need something to heal with when those thematic heals don't fit.
*Notes: Endorphin Rush would probably need to be removed from Enrage, because this New Heal would basically replace it while allowing it to be used with multiple build types. Not just strictly locked behind Enrage/Defiance. Having the new Heal scale with Off/DEF or CON would make it just as useful(or more useful) for builds that use Endorphin Rush now.
It's still the most defensive of the offensive passives, by a huge margin.
People that were using it in lieu of LR, yeah. I can see you wanting to switch.
But people that are using it as an Offensive Passive with damage versatility and good defenses, they should still be okay.
Though they may want to look at re-implementing a part of the "charge time scales dodge chance" thing that they dropped with On Alert.
Maybe with something like "attacks that take over 2 seconds to charge grant you 1.5x your listed dodge chance". So a dodge of 30% becomes 45%. With no penalty to dodge on fast attacks.
It allows dodge gear/passives to still help against higher-hitting PvE content, without making dodge gear a no-brainer for everyone, and without making Quarry stronger than LR at LR's proscribed job.
I'm making this up off the top of my head, so the numbers probably need to be tweaked.
I get why Quarry's dodge is the lowest out of the 3 passive offenses (WotW, Quarry and NW). They adjusted it so Evasive Maneuvers would bring it's dodge up to par with the other two. From an AT's point of view, it makes sense.
The sad thing is these changes should have went into effect over a year ago, before players started investing in mods and Legion Gear. If I knew a year ago that my 74% dodge would be lowered to 38%, I would have invested and chose things differently. That's why the devs should make the transition easier for us. We shouldn't have to go through the process of saving up globals again for new gear, nor should we have to dump a bunch of questionite in unsocketing our mods.
Well, I'll be honest. At first I hated the idea of this new block. But after playing with it for awhile and thinking over it a lot, I'll admit it has some potential. I'd like to make some suggestions on how to make Fluidity fit into the game without negating all the fixes that are currently going on. So here we go...
FLUIDITY
A blocks MAIN purpose is to mitigate large amounts of damage. By using a Dodge percentage on Fluidity there is a possibility that an attack will STILL hit you for the FULL amount of damage while your blocking. This should not be the case.
Suggestion
-Fluidity AUTOMATICALLY Dodges ALL Incoming Attacks while using it.
Allowing Fluidity to automatically dodge attacks, let's you set the Avoidance percentage equal to that of the Resistance percentage found on other blocks.
ADVANTAGE
FLOW LIKE THE RIVER
This advantage is currently game breaking. Allowing players to stack over 60% Dodge/Avoidance(with the help of EM and LT) without a Passive/Gear/Specs/etc. I personally don't see this advantage working out for this power, but I would like to see these mechanics used on Evasive Maneuvers instead.
NEWADVANTAGE
LOOK FOR THE OPENING
This advantage uses the same thematic idea that was used with Masterful Dodge: UNFETTERED STRIKES.
-After blocking with Fluidity for 2 seconds, you gain a Critical Chance Buff(possibly Critical Severity buff aslo) that decreases over time. Basically the offensive version of Flow Like The River.
Why would this be a good change?
*The buff will negate any DPS lost from having to hold your block for 2 seconds, because of the buff to criticals.
*We don't currently have any blocks that come with an Offensive Advantage.
*It works thematically, as you bob and weave to avoid attacks while looking for an opening. Once finding the opening you take complete advantage of it in the form of Critical strike/severity increase.
*Gives a nice opposite to Parry(also found in the MA Framework.) Instead of both giving Dodge/Avoidance Advantages.
FLUIDITY FX/ANIMATION
If your going to be making a Dodge based block, then it would make sense to create a new blocking animation for it. Something with the feel of how Neo(Matrix) would dodge bullets with quick movements, or how Spiderman can move quickly while hoping around in a small area. This could be tricky to find just the right animation, but the current animation does not fit at all thematically.
Making these changes should allow this New Block to fit in well with the rest of the game without breaking anything. AND, allows us the opportunity to the changes to Evasive Maneuvers and Ego Placate that I had suggested...
EVASIVE MANEUVERS(Showing NEW changes only, rest of the power works the same)
-Duration: 20secs up from 12secs
-Recharge: 20secs up from 15secs
-Effects: Rank 1: +15% Dodge
Rank 2: +22.5% Dodge
Rank 3: +30% Dodge
Dodge Bonus has 5% of its effect reduced every 1 sec. 20secs=100% reduction
-This power no longer stacks. Instead, you can use it to re-apply/refresh the Effects.
Advantage 1pt: BOUNDING RESILIENCE: Increases your Avoidance depending on the powers Rank.
-Effect: Rank 1: +10% Avoidance
Rank 2: +15% Avoidance
Rank 3: +20% Avoidance
Avoidance Bonus has 5% of its effect reduced every 1 sec. 20secs=100% reduction
Advantage: Slight of Mind(REMOVED)
*Notes: Currently on Live EM is very much abused. Mainly because of it's Advantage, and the ability to reduce the cooldown to around 5 seconds. This means your able to spam stealth far to often and double stack the Dodge Bonus from base power. These improvements utilize what you were trying to do with Fluidity by adding them to a power that works thematically for them(Basically you backflip away making yourself harder to hit, you lose the effect overtime because it's not like your continuously flipping away. Makes complete sense.)
Increasing the Duration/Recharge to 20secs does two things. Allows the Dodge/Avoidance to reduce in effectiveness a little slower that what Fluidity uses now, and also keeps the EM from being over spammable. This power is found in Archery, Archery uses INT(which reduces cooldowns) as one if it's main stats(if not main stat.) So with High INT and Cooldown Gear you should be able to reduce that 20secs to a more manageable 8secs or so. Which allows you to refresh your buff sooner, thus keeping your Dodge/Avoidance from dropping to low.
Why did I suggest removing the Slight of Mind advantage though? Well besides the fact that I feel the power will be useful enough now without an advantage, the answer to this question can be found in my next suggestion. This time I'd like to suggest fixing a power that's broken by its COMPLETE INEFFECTIVENESS! That power being...
EGO PLACATE(NEW Format)
Tier 1
You are able to subtly convince the target that you are not a threat(Equals NEW Threat Wipe addition), never mind that you just beat up a nearby group of their friends.
Click
-Placate the target, making them unable to attack you. This effect only works on weaker targets. This includes Henchmen, Villains, and Enforcers.
-Reduces the damage the target deals.(THIS I have missed until just now. This I would suggest removing altogether. Why would placating someone reduce the damage they are capable of dealing? It wouldn't! It WOULD however leave them Vulnerable to attacks, which is why SGuile works thematically.)
3 Ranks
2 Advantages
-Cost: 15
-Activation Time: .67 sec
-Duration: Rank 1: 10 sec
Rank 2: 12 sec
Rank 3: 14 sec
-Range: 50 feet
-Lockdown: No
-Recharge: 15-20sec(NEW)
-Threat Wipe to Target(NEW)
-100% Reduced Threat to Target that are Master Villain Rank or Lower.
-75% Reduced Threat to Targets that are Super Villain Rank.
-50% Reduced Threat to Targets that are Legendary Rank.
-25% Reduced Threat to Targets that are Cosmic Rank.
ADVANTAGE: Svengali's Guile (2 Advantage Points)
Placated enemies have their defenses reduced for 10 seconds
-10% defense resistance
ADVANTAGE: Sleight of Mind (2 OR 3 Advantage Points)
Evasive Maneuvers has a 50% chance to wipe all threat from you and places you in stealth for 3 seconds.
-1,000 Aggression and Perception Stealth for 3 sec
PS: I also gave MANY reasons as to why these changes to Ego Placate would be a good idea... "HERE"
You are able to subtly convince the target that you are not a threat(Equals NEW Threat Wipe addition), never mind that you just beat up a nearby group of their friends.
Click
-Placate the target, making them unable to attack you. This effect only works on weaker targets. This includes Henchmen, Villains, and Enforcers.
-Reduces the damage the target deals.(THIS I have missed until just now. This I would suggest removing altogether. Why would placating someone reduce the damage they are capable of dealing? It wouldn't! It WOULD however leave them Vulnerable to attacks, which is why SGuile works thematically.)
ADVANTAGE: Svengali's Guile (2 Advantage Points)
Placated enemies have their defenses reduced for 10 seconds
-10% defense resistance
ADVANTAGE: Sleight of Mind (2 OR 3 Advantage Points)
Evasive Maneuvers has a 50% chance to wipe all threat from you and places you in stealth for 3 seconds.
-1,000 Aggression and Perception Stealth for 3 sec
PS: I also gave MANY reasons as to why these changes to Ego Placate would be a good idea... "HERE"
All I know is that I want your Ego Placate suggestion bad, only because we never got Mind Wipe.
So if Quarry is taking a big hit, how about the situation of those who take Quarry r2 and Fair Game advantage with secondary statted and gear supported Con for self healing as a form of defense too?
I have to say that all the alts I use Quarry on, sacrifice r3 to instead have Fair Game, and have Con as a stat, and I think it's totally worth it that way.
What do you build gurus say about that case, in the new scale for dodge numbers about Quarry then?
Quarry's Damage bonus and scaling for that bonus is not being changed. Fair Game is also not being changed.
What IS being changed is the maximum amount of int/ego that audacity provides(going to be capped at 20 per stat per stack down from the 30 per stat per stack it is on live).
Quarry is also having its flat dodge rate lowered to 8.3% at rank 1, 10% at rank 2, and 12% at rank 3.
Quarry's Audacity is also having lower avoidance% but in all honesty avoidance% is insignificant when compared to avoidance stat so this nerf is just plain weird..
Dodge Stat Scaling is being changed and the current PTS numbers are about half of what they are on live.
Live Version With Live Scaling and Live Quarry rank2+dodge gear:
Base Dodge+15%Quarry is 25%
153 dodge+15%Quarry grants 57.5%
292 dodge+15%Quarry grants 69.5%
306 Dodge+15%Quarry grants 70.3%
445 Dodge+15%Quarry grants 76.7%
____________
If you have Parry with Elusive Monk then...Elusive Monk on PTS has been changed to flat rate starting at 4% and slowly scaling on your dex. currently, the avoidance it grants is the exact same as live. I am lazy so I'll just copy+paste my previous post:
If you want to know what the pts% would be for the old version of Elusive monk just cut the live% in half and you have a rough estimate of it.
______________________
Avoidance is also taking a slight hit in the scaling. Honestly it is almost too insignificant to even mention but:
Live Avoidance:
Base Avoidance is 20%
102 Avoidance grants 52.5%
139 avoidance grants 58.7%
241 avoidance grants 69.5%
353 Avoidance grants 76.3%
374 Avoidance grants 77.2%
PTS Avoidance:
Base Avoidance is 20%
76 Avoidance grants 43.8%
102 Avoidance grants 49.1%
139 avoidance grants 55%
214 avoidance grants 63.6%
241 avoidance grants 66%
353 Avoidance grants 73.1%
374 Avoidance grants 74.1%
425 Avoidance grants 76.3%
_______________
Remember that Avoidance% thing from quarry? Well It is being nerfed.
On live, Quarry's Avoidance% per stack of Audacity for rank 2 is 7.5%
On PTS, Quarry's Avoidance% per stack of Audacity for rank 2 is 5%.
Bug Way of the Warrior and Parry/The Elusive Monk both state that they grant "+X% Dodge Chance Rating". They should instead state that they grant "+X% Dodge Chance".
Lightning Reflexes and Night Warrior both display correctly.
_________________________________________________ @flamingbunnyman in game. Formerly @Roderick in City of Heroes.
you'd be really happy that crowd control would be getting looked at?
I'd be happy if Ego Placate worked as well as Smoke Grenade's advantage.
"There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
So if Quarry is taking a big hit, how about the situation of those who take Quarry r2 and Fair Game advantage with secondary statted and gear supported Con for self healing as a form of defense too?
I have to say that all the alts I use Quarry on, sacrifice r3 to instead have Fair Game, and have Con as a stat, and I think it's totally worth it that way.
What do you build gurus say about that case, in the new scale for dodge numbers about Quarry then?
This is how I've always run it. Dodge, Avoidance, Audacity, +Int, +Ego were all way secondary to me.
.
-=-=-=-=-=-(CO in-game handle: @WarCan )-=-=-=-=-=- "Okay, you're DEAD, what do you do NEXT?"
It's still the most defensive of the offensive passives, by a huge margin.
People that were using it in lieu of LR, yeah. I can see you wanting to switch.
But people that are using it as an Offensive Passive with damage versatility and good defenses, they should still be okay.
Sage, I don't think that's the case any more. I would rank WotW first for defense, then Night Warrior followed by Quarry in last place. Quarry now gives the least dodge and avoidance.
Whereas before it made sense for many melee builds to use Quarry now I see WotW and NW as preferable. I see still Quarry as desirable to ranged builds.
Sage, I don't think that's the case any more. I would rank WotW first for defense, then Night Warrior followed by Quarry in last place. Quarry now gives the least dodge and avoidance.
Whereas before it made sense for many melee builds to use Quarry now I see WotW and NW as preferable. I see still Quarry as desirable to ranged builds.
I was only thinking of the ranged/energy form passives when I made that comparison, but yeah, you're right. New Quarry is outdone on the defensive side by WotW and Night Warrior.
His change to Ego Placate is basically optional Mind Wipe. I think there was a reason why Mind Wipe was cut.
Any changes to Ego Placate would defo have to be filed under a CC review of sorts and you know what will happen if that is announced.
Why was that reason exactly?
Because if putting Slight of Mind on Ego Placate is game breaking in any way, then allowing this advantage to exist on any other power is just as game breaking. So are you saying they should just take this advantage out of the game altogether?
Slight of Mind belongs on Ego Placate. That's my opinion of course, but it's a strong opinion! It works thematically better! It makes Ego Placate more useful! And Evasive Maneuvers remains useful, but not overpoweringly so!
The ONLY concern I can see in my suggested change to Ego Placate would be the 100% Threat Wipe(to single target) as a base part of the power. The concern is that, would it be game breaking to allow players the ability to wipe all threat from Bosses? Well, I have a suggestion on how to make THAT work too...
EGO PLACATE(Threat Wipe Percentages)
-100% Threat to Targets that are Master Villain Rank or Lower.
-75% Threat to Targets that are Super Villain Rank.
-50% Threat to Targets that are Legendary Rank.
-25% Threat to Targets that are Cosmic Rank.
The slight of Mind Advantage then comes with a 50% chance to wipe all your threat. Allows the power to still be useful when faced against a group of enemies.
Because if putting Slight of Mind on Ego Placate is game breaking in any way, then allowing this advantage to exist on any other power is just as game breaking. So are you saying they should just take this advantage out of the game altogether?
Slight of Mind belongs on Ego Placate. That's my opinion of course, but it's a strong opinion! It works thematically better! It makes Ego Placate more useful! And Evasive Maneuvers remains useful, but not overpoweringly so!
The ONLY concern I can see in my suggested change to Ego Placate would be the 100% Threat Wipe(to single target) as a base part of the power. The concern is that, would it be game breaking to allow players the ability to wipe all threat from Bosses? Well, I have a suggestion on how to make THAT work too...
EGO PLACATE(Threat Wipe Percentages)
-100% Threat to Targets that are Master Villain Rank or Lower.
-75% Threat to Targets that are Super Villain Rank.
-50% Threat to Targets that are Legendary Rank.
-25% Threat to Targets that are Cosmic Rank.
The slight of Mind Advantage then comes with a 50% chance to wipe all your threat. Allows the power to still be useful when faced against a group of enemies.
I could live with it like that as long as the SmokeGrenade advantage is changed to match. Still can't believe an advantage placates better than the placate power.
"There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
i Could Live With It Like That As Long As The Smokegrenade Advantage Is Changed To Match. Still Can't Believe An Advantage Placates Better Than The Placate Power.
Just because the crit bonus is on the tool-tip doesn't mean it doesnt have a -critchance for melee tag. Cost reduction is something you can test though~
You can test crit chance too. Crits are noted in your logs. Take a fast ticking aoe, hit a bunch of mobs with it, then open up your log in a spreadsheet and note how many crits you got vs your total number of hits.
Are people's AT toons going to be ok after the dodge/avoid changes? The biggest concern is the impact on them.
It sounds like the changes were made with a focus on balancing freeforms, but what are the ATs that were designed and released by Cryptic going to do? Will they be redesigned as part of the pass?
Time restraints, I think the issue was getting all the powers out on time was not possible without even MORE complaining from those of use who had waited 10 months or more.
It would have been a great addition IMO.
Because if putting Slight of Mind on Ego Placate is game breaking in any way, then allowing this advantage to exist on any other power is just as game breaking. So are you saying they should just take this advantage out of the game altogether?
I am saying they need to slow down, roll back and look at the Crowd Control System. There was a time when Confuses and Placates worked in PvP and worked very well.
Slight of Mind belongs on Ego Placate. That's my opinion of course, but it's a strong opinion! It works thematically better! It makes Ego Placate more useful! And Evasive Maneuvers remains useful, but not overpoweringly so!
I have always viewed Ego Placate as a more subtle version of blatant invisibility, hence why it didn't turn YOU invisible. If Placates as a whole were re done to work on other players and higher mobs, there may not be a need for an Ego Placate change (outside of granting the power a CD).
The ONLY concern I can see in my suggested change to Ego Placate would be the 100% Threat Wipe(to single target) as a base part of the power. The concern is that, would it be game breaking to allow players the ability to wipe all threat from Bosses? Well, I have a suggestion on how to make THAT work too...
The chance to affect bosses should be in line with Crowd Control Magnitude increases, with Manipulator allowing the Threat wipe to affect Super Villains and below. Higher ranked targets would have a % chance to be threat wiped, namely:
- 45% if Legendary
- 25% if Cosmic
The slight of Mind Advantage then comes with a 50% chance to wipe all your threat. Allows the power to still be useful when faced against a group of enemies.
All I am saying is that if they are going to touch Ego Placate, I will see no reason why they cannot extend such a change and fix up Crowd Control as a mechanic.
I have always viewed Ego Placate as a more subtle version of blatant invisibility, hence why it didn't turn YOU invisible. If Placates as a whole were re done to work on other players and higher mobs, there may not be a need for an Ego Placate change (outside of granting the power a CD).
As far as the "Turning Invisible" thing goes with Slight of Mind, PSI have telepathic members in there group that do JUST THAT. Adding SoM would bring Ego Placate on par with their Placates.
I see what your saying though, maybe there is a way to have the Stealth be granted so that others can't see you while not turning you invisible at the same time. Would be a nice touch, but I can deal with turning invisible(it's only for 3secs anyway.)
What is the difference between REDOING a power and CHANGING a power? Seems like the same thing to me LoL. Think of it this way. These changes are a way of redoing the power so that placates work better.
The chance to affect bosses should be in line with Crowd Control Magnitude increases, with Manipulator allowing the Threat wipe to affect Super Villains and below. Higher ranked targets would have a % chance to be threat wiped
AGREED! Finally we can agree on something LoL. Manipulator SHOULD definitely raise the percentage of threat wiped away from Super Villains and higher.
Yeah, it should have been given that a long time ago. BUT, I made a suggestion earlier that would be so much better for all none Dodge/Crit based builds. That being...
NEW CLICK HEAL
This Heal applies a Heal Over Time effect on you(just like BCR.) A click heal that is capable of stacking, with a reasonable recharge time would be good. The heal scales with your Offense or Defense Stat(much like Resurgence scales with CON), whichever is higher(Or Scales with CON if OFF/DEF scaling won't work for any reason.) Has very minimal FX(or None at all) so that it is able to work with a LARGE amount of Thematic Builds. This would be the Default Self Heal for your average Off/Def builds, while BCR is the Default Dodge Self Heal, and Crits have Conviction. All other Heals in the game are highly thematic to there respective sets. OFF/DEF builds need something to heal with when those thematic heals don't fit.
*Notes: Endorphin Rush would probably need to be removed from Enrage, because this New Heal would basically replace it while allowing it to be used with multiple build types. Not just strictly locked behind Enrage/Defiance. Having the new Heal scale with Off/DEF or CON would make it just as useful(or more useful) for builds that use Endorphin Rush now.
Why not just use Conviction, BCR and Resurgence?
Is it just so you have a heal based on OFF/DEF?
Builds that use Conviction/BCR don't tend to use PRE anyways.
With 8 stacks of Manipulator(scaled moderately/high)
Master Villians and Lower: 100% reduced threat
Super Villains: 75% reduced threat
Legendarys: 50% reduced threat
Cosmics: 25% reduced threat
^Above is a rough example.
Not quite. Manipulator shouldn't have to increase "% threat wiped away", the threat wipe should be a flat per cent (100%) which is based on a "chance to proc" system which Manipulator directly affects. This would be in a similar fashion to how it allows for CC effects to hold/affect Super Villains, as it increases Hold Magnitude.
It should work as all CC's do, sans Manipulator Form, CC effects work on Henchmen to Enforcer Level (includes Master Villain but they have high resistance without Manip so CC effects would be miniscule at best). ONLY.
With Manipulator it would work on Henchmen to Super Villain. <--This is how Manipulator adds value to CC, so it should be 100% on Super Villains and lower.
The special advantage of using Ego Placate would be that WITH Manipulator Form there would be an increased chance to threat wipe yourself on higher level targets (such as Legendries and Cosmics) compared to without Manipulator, so it would go as follows.
WITH MANIPULATOR FORM
Legendries: 30% chance to threat wipe
Cosmics: 15% chance to threat wipe
WITHOUT MANIPULATOR FORM
Legendries: 10% chance to threat wipe
Cosmics: 5% chance to threat wipe
Of course this would then beg the question as to why other forms of CC cannot gain increases this way in higher level encounters, but that is for an entirely different discussion which was held ages ago where the conclusion was that CC was too powerful for Boss AI. (because they cannot counteract it or something, this was the issue with Interrupts for New Telepathy)
However, percentage wise on the values I mentioned would make taking this power and Manipulator worthwhile in comparison to taking it without Manipulator.
Not quite. Manipulator shouldn't have to increase "% threat wiped away", the threat wipe should be a flat per cent (100%) which is based on a "chance to proc" system which Manipulator directly affects. This would be in a similar fashion to how it allows for CC effects to hold/affect Super Villains, as it increases Hold Magnitude.
It should work as all CC's do, sans Manipulator Form, CC effects work on Henchmen to Enforcer Level (includes Master Villain but they have high resistance without Manip so CC effects would be miniscule at best). ONLY.
With Manipulator it would work on Henchmen to Super Villain. <--This is how Manipulator adds value to CC, so it should be 100% on Super Villains and lower.
The special advantage of using Ego Placate would be that WITH Manipulator Form there would be an increased chance to threat wipe yourself on higher level targets (such as Legendries and Cosmics) compared to without Manipulator, so it would go as follows.
WITH MANIPULATOR FORM
Legendries: 30% chance to threat wipe
Cosmics: 15% chance to threat wipe
WITHOUT MANIPULATOR FORM
Legendries: 10% chance to threat wipe
Cosmics: 5% chance to threat wipe
Of course this would then beg the question as to why other forms of CC cannot gain increases this way in higher level encounters, but that is for an entirely different discussion which was held ages ago where the conclusion was that CC was too powerful for Boss AI. (because they cannot counteract it or something, this was the issue with Interrupts for New Telepathy)
However, percentage wise on the values I mentioned would make taking this power and Manipulator worthwhile in comparison to taking it without Manipulator.
I will compromise here and concede to this. I think it would be effective either way really.
Question: Does Ego Placate apply Manipulator Stacks?
Because if it doesn't it would be wise to change it so that it does while adjusting Ego Placate.
Question: Does Ego Placate apply Manipulator Stacks?
Yes it does.
As do Confuses and now all forms of CC (except for a handful of powers)
In the case of Placates and Confuses duration is increased. For hold purposes Placates and Confuses are capped at a strength 2 CC class.
If they were +XXX values they would be able to affect players, legendries and cosmics. This is how Alien Crystal Device (AoE Confuse) used to operate until it was nerfed to be in line with in game confuses and placates, if you equip the device, you'll see it is a Strength 2 CC class, with Manipulator Form upping the duration of the CC effect.
However, Alien Crystal since the nerf no longer proc's Manipulator Form Stacks.
You know what, I think I'll just put this request here as I realize it'd be nice to have as I look over a build I'm trying to figure out how to change for the upcoming changes...
Can we get the Nailed to the Ground Advantage for Gust? Please!!!
I have an honest to god question. Where the hell did Ego Placate come from in this discussion? its entirely offtopic. Make a thread in the Suggestions Box about it if you want to continue. This is supposed to be about PTS changes. Not Telepathy.
As per the PTS. I feel that while dodge is getting the spotlight due to its extreme changes, the nature of crit has been unanswered. The recent changes to crit heavily favor NOT taking Dex for better crit.
My Dex primary build dropped from 43.6% crit down to around 34%, while my Strentgth build with 10 dex only dropped 2%.
This change has an even greater influence. The best way to improve crit strike has been Ego primary for its crit chance spec, since its a flat %, not a rating. Similar to the dodge conundrum but on a smaller scale. The margin at which Ego crit chsnce excels of Dex has been increased with this change. This is a bad thing. Dex should be the best way to get crit. I propose that Crit rating on gear is nerfed, and Dex changing over from a hidden rating system to a true flat percent rate. Alternatively separating Dex's DR curve from Crit Strike's DR curve would have a similar effect, and perhaps be even preferable.
IMHO the change to crit DR curve balances out dex to it's counterparts ego and str.
Now it's a more of a toss up between having dex or ego/str as a primary for offensive builds.
Dex comes with a better way to get more severity and penetration. Much like the night warrior passive with a lower damage bonus and a penetration compared to other offensive passives, each having their own advantages.
Before, taking dex was just a no brainer.
Now, taking ego and str allows more flexibilty in offensive builds without having to take dex, yet won't fall behind nearly as much.
Dex still leads the dps race with builds that capitalise on the increased severity and penetration. That said, seeing how there's the spec trees can be exploited to provide extra severity and other benefits (I do not know how this exploit is done though). Str/ego may be the new go to for crit builds.
IMHO the change to crit DR curve balances out dex to it's counterparts ego and str.
Now it's a more of a toss up between having dex or ego/str as a primary for offensive builds.
You really don't know what you're saying.
Dex comes with a better way to get more severity and penetration. Much like the night warrior passive with a lower damage bonus and a penetration compared to other offensive passives, each having their own advantages.
Before, taking dex was just a no brainer.
Again, you don't know what you're saying. Read my post again then come back to me. Also, Dex grants 0 penetration. You're thinking of Int primary.
Now, taking ego and str allows more flexibilty in offensive builds without having to take dex, yet won't fall behind nearly as much.
Again not reading. You never had to take Dex for crit. Why do you think 90% of PvP is Str/Con/Int?
Dex still leads the dps race with builds that capitalise on the increased severity and penetration. That said, seeing how there's the spec trees can be exploited to provide extra severity and other benefits (I do not know how this exploit is done though). Str/ego may be the new go to for crit builds.
Dex does not lead the DPS race. Thats all I'm going to say because frankly the misinformation has irritated me.
I have an honest to god question. Where the hell did Ego Placate come from in this discussion? its entirely offtopic. Make a thread in the Suggestions Box about it if you want to continue. This is supposed to be about PTS changes. Not Telepathy.
:redface:That would be my bad. I made a post involving 3 powers, one being Ego Placate. The other 2 are Evasive Maneuvers and Fluidity, which are both being worked on. The post involved the 3 powers being adjusted simultaneously to make them ALL more effective and thematic, without having any of them end up being Overpowerd or Underpowered. We just kind of got carried away with Ego Placate in particular. So again, my bad.:redface:
Now, taking ego and str allows more flexibilty in offensive builds without having to take dex, yet won't fall behind nearly as much.
Again not reading. You never had to take Dex for crit. Why do you think 90% of PvP is Str/Con/Int?
I can only gather from your response without understanding my argument, that you perhaps favor pvp, fotm, min/max builds, which may be limited builds as far as variety goes. You have only agreed with me that dex isn't (and shouldn't be) the only way to get crits.
I don't have to go into the reasons one takes str for pvp. That has little relevance to my argument.
I actually had a dex primary healer with impressive hps and dps, and little reason to have pre or heal spec trees before on that build, when dex is enough for a high hps. Though that is probably the concern for non healer builds on this nerf, since dex supplies both dps and hps. I can still take ego over dex now, but pre has specs that makes it attractive for a healer, so there's a closer balance.
Has anyone tried getting a group together to queue Forum Malvanum to see if its even possible to beat it now?
Before or after swapping things around slightly to account for the Justice gear? My PTS character with Justice gear is about as survivable and does more damage than the live one.
But in the interest of science I'd be more than willing to copy a fresh toon over or try it with the PTS variant using Justice gear.
I can't argue with someone who thinks his misinformation is correct.
It took me a minute to realize you were talking about Expose Weakness, which is not defense penetration, its a resistance debuff, which is similar but not the same.
I can only gather from your response without understanding my argument, that you perhaps favor pvp, fotm, min/max builds, which may be limited builds as far as variety goes. You have only agreed with me that dex isn't (and shouldn't be) the only way to get crits.
You entirely missed the point. I was using generic PvP builds as an example, because generic PvP builds exist for a reason. A min/max build will show you all sorts of issues that people don't think about, or are too enveloped in their own tastes to care.
Also, while I agree Dex isn't and shouldn't be the only way to get crit. I think it SHOULD BE the BEST way to get crit. That's THE ENTIRE POINT of taking the stat, and CURRENTLY ON PTS this is not the case, inf act its one of the worst stats to take for crit.
I actually had a dex primary healer with impressive hps and dps, and little reason to have pre or heal spec trees before on that build, when dex is enough for a high hps. Though that is probably the concern for non healer builds on this nerf, since dex supplies both dps and hps. I can still take ego over dex now, but pre has specs that makes it attractive for a healer, so there's a closer balance.
Try taking Pre primary. You'll notice a world of difference.
Dexterity is still incredibly desirable with these changes, perhaps even moreso than it was in the past.
Sitting at 252 Dexterity and a +95 crit strike upgrade (which is nothing special) I'm at 33% crit chance. If I add another crit core, it goes up 2%, not worth it.
On a character with 13 dex, a crit strike secondary, a crit strike primary, and two crit strike R7 mods (a total of 292 crit strike) I'm at roughly 30% critical strike. To obtain that I had to sacrifice all of my offensive gear to crit strike.
Meanwhile Dex primary players have their offensive slots freed up for say a Depleted Uranium Core, Offensive Cores, etc. they also have access to the Dex spec tree, the only tree that allows one to obtain truly revolting levels of severity and a very nice debuff.
Also, while I agree Dex isn't and shouldn't be the only way to get crit. I think it SHOULD BE the BEST way to get crit. That's THE ENTIRE POINT of taking the stat, and CURRENTLY ON PTS this is not the case, inf act its one of the worst stats to take for crit.
It's still the best way to get both Crit and Crit Severity in a single Primary Superstat, unless I'm looking at the numbers wrong (which is possible).
Edit: Ninja'ed by Kaizerin. Sneaky Kaiz is sneaky.
I decided to bring over my PA toon to the PTS who has low Crit Chance and Severity, but high Offense. Why? Cuz it seems to me we are focusing a lot on the changes to Crits and Dodges, but not to the change to the Offense stat.
Using the same gear, stats, powers, etc, as on Live, I hopped over to Monster Island to beat up some of the Level 40 goons around there. In case your curious, she's got a 443 Offense stat. I didn't bother to keep track of numbers. Honestly, I thought it would be better to see how the bump to Offense "felt". My big question was, "Will I notice a difference?"
The answer is: Yes. Compared to Live, it was a very noticeable difference in my speed at mowing down VIPER goons.
Maybe I'll try to get some combat logs analysis to give a hard number comparison, but don't hold your breath on that. I'll just say the tweaks on Offense do make it more worth it. How much more worthwhile will probably be subjective.
It's still the best way to get both Crit and Crit Severity in a single Primary Superstat, unless I'm looking at the numbers wrong (which is possible).
Edit: Ninja'ed by Kaizerin. Sneaky Kaiz is sneaky.
on PTS I was able to get Ego (through specs) around 46% and the same gear as my dex character. This with about 100% severity. I could get more severity too if I wanted to push numbers with Legion gear/Justice gear. my comparable dex character has 304 dex and 90 crit strike through a rank 6 gamblers, he has about 34% crit on PTS. On live you get between 30-35% crit with 2 gamblers gems in heroic gear. Currently on PTS my Strength Primary character has about 30% crit, using heroic crit gear. 10 dex = 30% crit, 304 dex = 34% crit, balanced? Then going back to ego, 46%, so again Ego is the reigning Crit champion.
on PTS I was able to get Ego (through specs) around 46% and the same gear as my dex character. This with about 100% severity. I could get more severity too if I wanted to push numbers with Legion gear/Justice gear. my comparable dex character has 304 dex and 90 crit strike through a rank 6 gamblers, he has about 34% crit on PTS. On live you get between 30-35% crit with 2 gamblers gems in heroic gear. Currently on PTS my Strength Primary character has about 30% crit, using heroic crit gear. 10 dex = 30% crit, 304 dex = 34% crit, balanced? Then going back to ego, 46%, so again Ego is the reigning Crit champion.
For the Str comparison, the Dex character could use crit severity gear instead of crit gear, ending up at more overall severity.
I haven't copied my Ego main character over recently to try anything, though.
I think it would be a good idea to change forms in the same way offense was changed. That is to say make it multiplicative but reduce the numbers. As it is now, forms are doing much more for builds with defense/support (AOPM mostly) passives then they are doing for builds with offense passives.
Defense passives (the ones that add damage resistance) are just adding to the damage resistance from defense and specs, but there is a lot more damage strength from stats, specs and forms that is putting offense passives much higher in the diminishing returns.
Besides giving offense passives some much needed help compared to defense/support passives, this would also make some of the powers/specs that add damage strength a little more useful. Like things are now, something like Gravitational Polarity (adv on Force eruption) is just not worth the time it takes to cast.
For the Str comparison, the Dex character could use crit severity gear instead of crit gear, ending up at more overall severity.
I haven't copied my Ego main character over recently to try anything, though.
I wasn't clear on my STR character, but thats 30% base crit. I wasn't counting Overpower which grants 23% crit chance to all melee attacks, for me. That would be about 53% crit chance, specific to melee attacks. The point still stands though that Dex is meant to grant the most crit chance, the entire reason for taking that stat is for crit. Yet its being outdone by other primaries thanks to crit strike gear, (the major issue in that is that Crit strike gear is on the same DR curve as Dex, whereas crit from the STR/EGO specs are fully independant of a curve).
Edit: Only one instance of Penetration Core will take effect. Only one instance of Left Eye of the Ruby Dragon will take effect. Only one instance of Right Eye of the Sapphire Dragon will take effect. All of these require re-equipping of gear in order to work properly. Both eyes are multiplicative and on the same layer as [the current pts] Offense and our only multiplicative form.
I wasn't clear on my STR character, but thats 30% base crit. I wasn't counting Overpower which grants 23% crit chance to all melee attacks, for me. That would be about 53% crit chance, specific to melee attacks. The point still stands though that Dex is meant to grant the most crit chance, the entire reason for taking that stat is for crit. Yet its being outdone by other primaries thanks to crit strike gear, (the major issue in that is that Crit strike gear is on the same DR curve as Dex, whereas crit from the STR/EGO specs are fully independant of a curve).
Speaking of primaries, doesn't Quick Reflexes from Dex need to be adjusted anyways? Last time I checked, I couldn't even get 1% of dodge per point with it. They might as well revamp Combat Training while they're at it. At least bring Dex up to par with Str and Ego with crit chance. While I'm making suggestions about SS Dex, how about tossing Evasion out and giving us something like Con's Resilient? I can hit 83% avoidance with LR easily. Do we really need any more avoidance? I'd much rather have knock resistance, something most Dex builds lack severely, even if it's a little. I know, wishful thinking.
As far as the dodge/avoid from gear, I think they're almost right. I get about 27% dodge and 43% avoidance using the new Justice gear and two R7 gambler's mods. That comes out to be ~10% more mitigation than base. Using the hp/defense gear with two R7 impact gems also gets me about 10% more mitigation plus 553 more hp. Comparing the two has def/hp winning out in my eyes because of the hp bonus since the average mitigation is about the same.
I think dodge gear *should* grant about ~5% more average mitigation due to the random nature of dodging. I would rather that mean increases in dodge chance than avoidance. Maybe even apply that 553 bonus hp to all the Justice primary defense items.
Comments
I have to say that all the alts I use Quarry on, sacrifice r3 to instead have Fair Game, and have Con as a stat, and I think it's totally worth it that way.
What do you build gurus say about that case, in the new scale for dodge numbers about Quarry then?
Yeah, it should have been given that a long time ago. BUT, I made a suggestion earlier that would be so much better for all none Dodge/Crit based builds. That being...
NEW CLICK HEAL
This Heal applies a Heal Over Time effect on you(just like BCR.) A click heal that is capable of stacking, with a reasonable recharge time would be good. The heal scales with your Offense or Defense Stat(much like Resurgence scales with CON), whichever is higher(Or Scales with CON if OFF/DEF scaling won't work for any reason.) Has very minimal FX(or None at all) so that it is able to work with a LARGE amount of Thematic Builds. This would be the Default Self Heal for your average Off/Def builds, while BCR is the Default Dodge Self Heal, and Crits have Conviction. All other Heals in the game are highly thematic to there respective sets. OFF/DEF builds need something to heal with when those thematic heals don't fit.
*Notes: Endorphin Rush would probably need to be removed from Enrage, because this New Heal would basically replace it while allowing it to be used with multiple build types. Not just strictly locked behind Enrage/Defiance. Having the new Heal scale with Off/DEF or CON would make it just as useful(or more useful) for builds that use Endorphin Rush now.
I get why Quarry's dodge is the lowest out of the 3 passive offenses (WotW, Quarry and NW). They adjusted it so Evasive Maneuvers would bring it's dodge up to par with the other two. From an AT's point of view, it makes sense.
The sad thing is these changes should have went into effect over a year ago, before players started investing in mods and Legion Gear. If I knew a year ago that my 74% dodge would be lowered to 38%, I would have invested and chose things differently. That's why the devs should make the transition easier for us. We shouldn't have to go through the process of saving up globals again for new gear, nor should we have to dump a bunch of questionite in unsocketing our mods.
FLUIDITY
A blocks MAIN purpose is to mitigate large amounts of damage. By using a Dodge percentage on Fluidity there is a possibility that an attack will STILL hit you for the FULL amount of damage while your blocking. This should not be the case.
Suggestion
-Fluidity AUTOMATICALLY Dodges ALL Incoming Attacks while using it.
Allowing Fluidity to automatically dodge attacks, let's you set the Avoidance percentage equal to that of the Resistance percentage found on other blocks.
ADVANTAGE
FLOW LIKE THE RIVER
This advantage is currently game breaking. Allowing players to stack over 60% Dodge/Avoidance(with the help of EM and LT) without a Passive/Gear/Specs/etc. I personally don't see this advantage working out for this power, but I would like to see these mechanics used on Evasive Maneuvers instead.
NEW ADVANTAGE
LOOK FOR THE OPENING
This advantage uses the same thematic idea that was used with Masterful Dodge: UNFETTERED STRIKES.
-After blocking with Fluidity for 2 seconds, you gain a Critical Chance Buff(possibly Critical Severity buff aslo) that decreases over time. Basically the offensive version of Flow Like The River.
Why would this be a good change?
*The buff will negate any DPS lost from having to hold your block for 2 seconds, because of the buff to criticals.
*We don't currently have any blocks that come with an Offensive Advantage.
*It works thematically, as you bob and weave to avoid attacks while looking for an opening. Once finding the opening you take complete advantage of it in the form of Critical strike/severity increase.
*Gives a nice opposite to Parry(also found in the MA Framework.) Instead of both giving Dodge/Avoidance Advantages.
FLUIDITY FX/ANIMATION
If your going to be making a Dodge based block, then it would make sense to create a new blocking animation for it. Something with the feel of how Neo(Matrix) would dodge bullets with quick movements, or how Spiderman can move quickly while hoping around in a small area. This could be tricky to find just the right animation, but the current animation does not fit at all thematically.
Making these changes should allow this New Block to fit in well with the rest of the game without breaking anything. AND, allows us the opportunity to the changes to Evasive Maneuvers and Ego Placate that I had suggested...
EVASIVE MANEUVERS(Showing NEW changes only, rest of the power works the same)
-Duration: 20secs up from 12secs
-Recharge: 20secs up from 15secs
-Effects: Rank 1: +15% Dodge
Rank 2: +22.5% Dodge
Rank 3: +30% Dodge
Dodge Bonus has 5% of its effect reduced every 1 sec. 20secs=100% reduction
-This power no longer stacks. Instead, you can use it to re-apply/refresh the Effects.
Advantage 1pt: BOUNDING RESILIENCE: Increases your Avoidance depending on the powers Rank.
-Effect: Rank 1: +10% Avoidance
Rank 2: +15% Avoidance
Rank 3: +20% Avoidance
Avoidance Bonus has 5% of its effect reduced every 1 sec. 20secs=100% reduction
Advantage: Slight of Mind(REMOVED)
*Notes: Currently on Live EM is very much abused. Mainly because of it's Advantage, and the ability to reduce the cooldown to around 5 seconds. This means your able to spam stealth far to often and double stack the Dodge Bonus from base power. These improvements utilize what you were trying to do with Fluidity by adding them to a power that works thematically for them(Basically you backflip away making yourself harder to hit, you lose the effect overtime because it's not like your continuously flipping away. Makes complete sense.)
Increasing the Duration/Recharge to 20secs does two things. Allows the Dodge/Avoidance to reduce in effectiveness a little slower that what Fluidity uses now, and also keeps the EM from being over spammable. This power is found in Archery, Archery uses INT(which reduces cooldowns) as one if it's main stats(if not main stat.) So with High INT and Cooldown Gear you should be able to reduce that 20secs to a more manageable 8secs or so. Which allows you to refresh your buff sooner, thus keeping your Dodge/Avoidance from dropping to low.
Why did I suggest removing the Slight of Mind advantage though? Well besides the fact that I feel the power will be useful enough now without an advantage, the answer to this question can be found in my next suggestion. This time I'd like to suggest fixing a power that's broken by its COMPLETE INEFFECTIVENESS! That power being...
EGO PLACATE(NEW Format)
Tier 1
You are able to subtly convince the target that you are not a threat(Equals NEW Threat Wipe addition), never mind that you just beat up a nearby group of their friends.
Click
-Placate the target, making them unable to attack you. This effect only works on weaker targets. This includes Henchmen, Villains, and Enforcers.
-Reduces the damage the target deals.(THIS I have missed until just now. This I would suggest removing altogether. Why would placating someone reduce the damage they are capable of dealing? It wouldn't! It WOULD however leave them Vulnerable to attacks, which is why SGuile works thematically.)
3 Ranks
2 Advantages
-Cost: 15
-Activation Time: .67 sec
-Duration: Rank 1: 10 sec
Rank 2: 12 sec
Rank 3: 14 sec
-Range: 50 feet
-Lockdown: No
-Recharge: 15-20sec(NEW)
-Threat Wipe to Target(NEW)
-100% Reduced Threat to Target that are Master Villain Rank or Lower.
-75% Reduced Threat to Targets that are Super Villain Rank.
-50% Reduced Threat to Targets that are Legendary Rank.
-25% Reduced Threat to Targets that are Cosmic Rank.
ADVANTAGE: Svengali's Guile (2 Advantage Points)
Placated enemies have their defenses reduced for 10 seconds
-10% defense resistance
ADVANTAGE: Sleight of Mind (2 OR 3 Advantage Points)
Evasive Maneuvers has a 50% chance to wipe all threat from you and places you in stealth for 3 seconds.
-1,000 Aggression and Perception Stealth for 3 sec
PS: I also gave MANY reasons as to why these changes to Ego Placate would be a good idea... "HERE"
All I know is that I want your Ego Placate suggestion bad, only because we never got Mind Wipe.
Quarry's Damage bonus and scaling for that bonus is not being changed. Fair Game is also not being changed.
What IS being changed is the maximum amount of int/ego that audacity provides(going to be capped at 20 per stat per stack down from the 30 per stat per stack it is on live).
Quarry is also having its flat dodge rate lowered to 8.3% at rank 1, 10% at rank 2, and 12% at rank 3.
Quarry's Audacity is also having lower avoidance% but in all honesty avoidance% is insignificant when compared to avoidance stat so this nerf is just plain weird..
Dodge Stat Scaling is being changed and the current PTS numbers are about half of what they are on live.
For Quarry rank 2+dodge gear:
Base Dodge+10%Quarry grants 20%
76 dodge+10%Quarry grants 25.4%
139 dodge+10%Quarry grants 29%
153 dodge+10%Quarry grants 29.7%
292 dodge+10%Quarry grants 35.5%
306 Dodge+10%Quarry grants 36%
445 Dodge+10%Quarry grants 40.1%
Live Version With Live Scaling and Live Quarry rank2+dodge gear:
Base Dodge+15%Quarry is 25%
153 dodge+15%Quarry grants 57.5%
292 dodge+15%Quarry grants 69.5%
306 Dodge+15%Quarry grants 70.3%
445 Dodge+15%Quarry grants 76.7%
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If you have Parry with Elusive Monk then...Elusive Monk on PTS has been changed to flat rate starting at 4% and slowly scaling on your dex. currently, the avoidance it grants is the exact same as live. I am lazy so I'll just copy+paste my previous post:
PTS% | Dexterity| Dodge(This is only on the Live Version) | LiveDodge%-10%Base |Avoidance#
4% 5 1.6 0.6%1.6
4.4% 45 15 5.2% 15
4.5% 63 21 7% 21
4.7% 85 28 9.2% 28
5% 134 44 13.5% 44
5.1% 191 63 18% 63
5.7% 214 70 19.5% 70
6% 249 82 21.8% 82
6.6% 329 109 26.4% 109
7% 373 123 28.5% 123
7.3% 417 138 30.5% 138
7.7% 461 152 32.4% 152
If you want to know what the pts% would be for the old version of Elusive monk just cut the live% in half and you have a rough estimate of it.
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Avoidance is also taking a slight hit in the scaling. Honestly it is almost too insignificant to even mention but:
Live Avoidance:
Base Avoidance is 20%
102 Avoidance grants 52.5%
139 avoidance grants 58.7%
241 avoidance grants 69.5%
353 Avoidance grants 76.3%
374 Avoidance grants 77.2%
PTS Avoidance:
Base Avoidance is 20%
76 Avoidance grants 43.8%
102 Avoidance grants 49.1%
139 avoidance grants 55%
214 avoidance grants 63.6%
241 avoidance grants 66%
353 Avoidance grants 73.1%
374 Avoidance grants 74.1%
425 Avoidance grants 76.3%
_______________
Remember that Avoidance% thing from quarry? Well It is being nerfed.
On live, Quarry's Avoidance% per stack of Audacity for rank 2 is 7.5%
On PTS, Quarry's Avoidance% per stack of Audacity for rank 2 is 5%.
Avoidance% is insignificant but:
Live(Note:This is with Live Avoidance Scaling):
0Avoidance+Rank2Quarry(1Stack Audacity) grants 24.5%
0Avoidance+Rank2Quarry(2Stack Audacity) grants 28.6%
0Avoidance+Rank2Quarry(3Stack Audacity) grants 32.2%
139Avoidance grants 58.7%
139Avoidance+Rank2Quarry(1Stack Audacity) grants 59.9%
139Avoidance+Rank2Quarry(2Stack Audacity) grants 61.1%
139Avoidance+Rank2Quarry(3Stack Audacity) grants 62.2%
PTS(Note:This is with PTS Avoidance Scaling):
0Avoidance+Rank2Quarry(1Stack Audacity) grants 24.5%
0Avoidance+Rank2Quarry(2Stack Audacity) grants 28.6%
0Avoidance+Rank2Quarry(3Stack Audacity) grants 32.2%
139Avoidance grants 55%
139Avoidance+Rank2Quarry(1Stack Audacity) grants 56.5%
139Avoidance+Rank2Quarry(2Stack Audacity) grants 57.9%
139Avoidance+Rank2Quarry(3Stack Audacity) grants 59.2%
______
There you have it.
His change to Ego Placate is basically optional Mind Wipe. I think there was a reason why Mind Wipe was cut.
Any changes to Ego Placate would defo have to be filed under a CC review of sorts and you know what will happen if that is announced.
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Way of the Warrior and Parry/The Elusive Monk both state that they grant "+X% Dodge Chance Rating". They should instead state that they grant "+X% Dodge Chance".
Lightning Reflexes and Night Warrior both display correctly.
@flamingbunnyman in game. Formerly @Roderick in City of Heroes.
I'd be happy if Ego Placate worked as well as Smoke Grenade's advantage.
"There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
This is how I've always run it. Dodge, Avoidance, Audacity, +Int, +Ego were all way secondary to me.
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"Okay, you're DEAD, what do you do NEXT?"
Sage, I don't think that's the case any more. I would rank WotW first for defense, then Night Warrior followed by Quarry in last place. Quarry now gives the least dodge and avoidance.
Whereas before it made sense for many melee builds to use Quarry now I see WotW and NW as preferable. I see still Quarry as desirable to ranged builds.
I was only thinking of the ranged/energy form passives when I made that comparison, but yeah, you're right. New Quarry is outdone on the defensive side by WotW and Night Warrior.
I should've specified.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
_______________________________
The user formerly known as Dr. Sage.
_______________________________
Why was that reason exactly?
Because if putting Slight of Mind on Ego Placate is game breaking in any way, then allowing this advantage to exist on any other power is just as game breaking. So are you saying they should just take this advantage out of the game altogether?
Slight of Mind belongs on Ego Placate. That's my opinion of course, but it's a strong opinion! It works thematically better! It makes Ego Placate more useful! And Evasive Maneuvers remains useful, but not overpoweringly so!
The ONLY concern I can see in my suggested change to Ego Placate would be the 100% Threat Wipe(to single target) as a base part of the power. The concern is that, would it be game breaking to allow players the ability to wipe all threat from Bosses? Well, I have a suggestion on how to make THAT work too...
EGO PLACATE(Threat Wipe Percentages)
-100% Threat to Targets that are Master Villain Rank or Lower.
-75% Threat to Targets that are Super Villain Rank.
-50% Threat to Targets that are Legendary Rank.
-25% Threat to Targets that are Cosmic Rank.
The slight of Mind Advantage then comes with a 50% chance to wipe all your threat. Allows the power to still be useful when faced against a group of enemies.
I could live with it like that as long as the SmokeGrenade advantage is changed to match. Still can't believe an advantage placates better than the placate power.
"There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
^exacty!!!
You can test crit chance too. Crits are noted in your logs. Take a fast ticking aoe, hit a bunch of mobs with it, then open up your log in a spreadsheet and note how many crits you got vs your total number of hits.
Are people's AT toons going to be ok after the dodge/avoid changes? The biggest concern is the impact on them.
It sounds like the changes were made with a focus on balancing freeforms, but what are the ATs that were designed and released by Cryptic going to do? Will they be redesigned as part of the pass?
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Shows how little you know :P
Its ALWAYS done this. Since day 1. Or at least since Free 2 Play.
I had 3 minute shreddeds on Kiga all the time back when I ran Viper's Fangs + Dragon's Wrath combos.
Funnily enough. Using Rend and Tear immediately set it back to 20 seconds. Making Rend and tear counterproductive to a Claw build. Irony.
Time restraints, I think the issue was getting all the powers out on time was not possible without even MORE complaining from those of use who had waited 10 months or more.
It would have been a great addition IMO.
I am saying they need to slow down, roll back and look at the Crowd Control System. There was a time when Confuses and Placates worked in PvP and worked very well.
I have always viewed Ego Placate as a more subtle version of blatant invisibility, hence why it didn't turn YOU invisible. If Placates as a whole were re done to work on other players and higher mobs, there may not be a need for an Ego Placate change (outside of granting the power a CD).
The chance to affect bosses should be in line with Crowd Control Magnitude increases, with Manipulator allowing the Threat wipe to affect Super Villains and below. Higher ranked targets would have a % chance to be threat wiped, namely:
- 45% if Legendary
- 25% if Cosmic
All I am saying is that if they are going to touch Ego Placate, I will see no reason why they cannot extend such a change and fix up Crowd Control as a mechanic.
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As far as the "Turning Invisible" thing goes with Slight of Mind, PSI have telepathic members in there group that do JUST THAT. Adding SoM would bring Ego Placate on par with their Placates.
I see what your saying though, maybe there is a way to have the Stealth be granted so that others can't see you while not turning you invisible at the same time. Would be a nice touch, but I can deal with turning invisible(it's only for 3secs anyway.)
What is the difference between REDOING a power and CHANGING a power? Seems like the same thing to me LoL. Think of it this way. These changes are a way of redoing the power so that placates work better.
AGREED! Finally we can agree on something LoL. Manipulator SHOULD definitely raise the percentage of threat wiped away from Super Villains and higher.
So how bout something like this...
Without Manipulator..
Enforcers and Lower: 100% reduced threat
Master Villains 75% reduced threat
Super Villains: 50% reduced threat
Legendarys: 25% reduced threat
Cosmics: 12.5% reduced threat
With 8 stacks of Manipulator(scaled moderately/high)
Master Villians and Lower: 100% reduced threat
Super Villains: 75% reduced threat
Legendarys: 50% reduced threat
Cosmics: 25% reduced threat
^Above is a rough example.
Why not just use Conviction, BCR and Resurgence?
Is it just so you have a heal based on OFF/DEF?
Builds that use Conviction/BCR don't tend to use PRE anyways.
BCR is more effective with Dodge.
Conviction is more effective with Crits.
Resurgence(while being a heal) is an Active Defense, so it's not in line with other healing powers.
The Telepathy Heals are both more effective with Crits.
Bionic Shielding isn't effected by anything other then PRE, so it's better for support healing.
OFF/DEF based Tanks/Hybrids/Ranged and Melee Damage Roles don't have a heal that scales for them. EXCEPT for Endorphin Rush.
So I'm suggesting they take Endorphin Rush out from being locked behind a particular set and make it more diverse. Basically.
Not quite. Manipulator shouldn't have to increase "% threat wiped away", the threat wipe should be a flat per cent (100%) which is based on a "chance to proc" system which Manipulator directly affects. This would be in a similar fashion to how it allows for CC effects to hold/affect Super Villains, as it increases Hold Magnitude.
It should work as all CC's do, sans Manipulator Form, CC effects work on Henchmen to Enforcer Level (includes Master Villain but they have high resistance without Manip so CC effects would be miniscule at best). ONLY.
With Manipulator it would work on Henchmen to Super Villain. <--This is how Manipulator adds value to CC, so it should be 100% on Super Villains and lower.
The special advantage of using Ego Placate would be that WITH Manipulator Form there would be an increased chance to threat wipe yourself on higher level targets (such as Legendries and Cosmics) compared to without Manipulator, so it would go as follows.
WITH MANIPULATOR FORM
Legendries: 30% chance to threat wipe
Cosmics: 15% chance to threat wipe
WITHOUT MANIPULATOR FORM
Legendries: 10% chance to threat wipe
Cosmics: 5% chance to threat wipe
Of course this would then beg the question as to why other forms of CC cannot gain increases this way in higher level encounters, but that is for an entirely different discussion which was held ages ago where the conclusion was that CC was too powerful for Boss AI. (because they cannot counteract it or something, this was the issue with Interrupts for New Telepathy)
However, percentage wise on the values I mentioned would make taking this power and Manipulator worthwhile in comparison to taking it without Manipulator.
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I will compromise here and concede to this. I think it would be effective either way really.
Question: Does Ego Placate apply Manipulator Stacks?
Because if it doesn't it would be wise to change it so that it does while adjusting Ego Placate.
Unlikely since neither it or Confuse count as holds for the purposes of hold strength.
Sounds like Manipulator needs to be expanded upon to include Placate's and Confuse types of Crowd Control then.
Yes it does.
As do Confuses and now all forms of CC (except for a handful of powers)
In the case of Placates and Confuses duration is increased. For hold purposes Placates and Confuses are capped at a strength 2 CC class.
If they were +XXX values they would be able to affect players, legendries and cosmics. This is how Alien Crystal Device (AoE Confuse) used to operate until it was nerfed to be in line with in game confuses and placates, if you equip the device, you'll see it is a Strength 2 CC class, with Manipulator Form upping the duration of the CC effect.
However, Alien Crystal since the nerf no longer proc's Manipulator Form Stacks.
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Is the idea to stop building for any chance to crit now? Think Conviction will be that bad?
Can we get the Nailed to the Ground Advantage for Gust? Please!!!
As per the PTS. I feel that while dodge is getting the spotlight due to its extreme changes, the nature of crit has been unanswered. The recent changes to crit heavily favor NOT taking Dex for better crit.
My Dex primary build dropped from 43.6% crit down to around 34%, while my Strentgth build with 10 dex only dropped 2%.
This change has an even greater influence. The best way to improve crit strike has been Ego primary for its crit chance spec, since its a flat %, not a rating. Similar to the dodge conundrum but on a smaller scale. The margin at which Ego crit chsnce excels of Dex has been increased with this change. This is a bad thing. Dex should be the best way to get crit. I propose that Crit rating on gear is nerfed, and Dex changing over from a hidden rating system to a true flat percent rate. Alternatively separating Dex's DR curve from Crit Strike's DR curve would have a similar effect, and perhaps be even preferable.
Now it's a more of a toss up between having dex or ego/str as a primary for offensive builds.
Dex comes with a better way to get more severity and penetration. Much like the night warrior passive with a lower damage bonus and a penetration compared to other offensive passives, each having their own advantages.
Before, taking dex was just a no brainer.
Now, taking ego and str allows more flexibilty in offensive builds without having to take dex, yet won't fall behind nearly as much.
Dex still leads the dps race with builds that capitalise on the increased severity and penetration. That said, seeing how there's the spec trees can be exploited to provide extra severity and other benefits (I do not know how this exploit is done though). Str/ego may be the new go to for crit builds.
Dex does not lead the DPS race. Thats all I'm going to say because frankly the misinformation has irritated me.
Probably meant Expose Weakness there.
That depends on the build, for a all out dps ranged build with low cost maintain powers (read TGM), dex has been the best choice for me.
:redface:That would be my bad. I made a post involving 3 powers, one being Ego Placate. The other 2 are Evasive Maneuvers and Fluidity, which are both being worked on. The post involved the 3 powers being adjusted simultaneously to make them ALL more effective and thematic, without having any of them end up being Overpowerd or Underpowered. We just kind of got carried away with Ego Placate in particular. So again, my bad.:redface:
I can't argue with someone who thinks his misinformation is correct.
I can only gather from your response without understanding my argument, that you perhaps favor pvp, fotm, min/max builds, which may be limited builds as far as variety goes. You have only agreed with me that dex isn't (and shouldn't be) the only way to get crits.
I don't have to go into the reasons one takes str for pvp. That has little relevance to my argument.
I actually had a dex primary healer with impressive hps and dps, and little reason to have pre or heal spec trees before on that build, when dex is enough for a high hps. Though that is probably the concern for non healer builds on this nerf, since dex supplies both dps and hps. I can still take ego over dex now, but pre has specs that makes it attractive for a healer, so there's a closer balance.
Before or after swapping things around slightly to account for the Justice gear? My PTS character with Justice gear is about as survivable and does more damage than the live one.
But in the interest of science I'd be more than willing to copy a fresh toon over or try it with the PTS variant using Justice gear.
You entirely missed the point. I was using generic PvP builds as an example, because generic PvP builds exist for a reason. A min/max build will show you all sorts of issues that people don't think about, or are too enveloped in their own tastes to care.
Also, while I agree Dex isn't and shouldn't be the only way to get crit. I think it SHOULD BE the BEST way to get crit. That's THE ENTIRE POINT of taking the stat, and CURRENTLY ON PTS this is not the case, inf act its one of the worst stats to take for crit.
Try taking Pre primary. You'll notice a world of difference.
Whats going on with Justice Gear, now?
Sitting at 252 Dexterity and a +95 crit strike upgrade (which is nothing special) I'm at 33% crit chance. If I add another crit core, it goes up 2%, not worth it.
On a character with 13 dex, a crit strike secondary, a crit strike primary, and two crit strike R7 mods (a total of 292 crit strike) I'm at roughly 30% critical strike. To obtain that I had to sacrifice all of my offensive gear to crit strike.
Meanwhile Dex primary players have their offensive slots freed up for say a Depleted Uranium Core, Offensive Cores, etc. they also have access to the Dex spec tree, the only tree that allows one to obtain truly revolting levels of severity and a very nice debuff.
Dexterity is fine where it is.
It's still the best way to get both Crit and Crit Severity in a single Primary Superstat, unless I'm looking at the numbers wrong (which is possible).
Edit: Ninja'ed by Kaizerin. Sneaky Kaiz is sneaky.
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I decided to bring over my PA toon to the PTS who has low Crit Chance and Severity, but high Offense. Why? Cuz it seems to me we are focusing a lot on the changes to Crits and Dodges, but not to the change to the Offense stat.
Using the same gear, stats, powers, etc, as on Live, I hopped over to Monster Island to beat up some of the Level 40 goons around there. In case your curious, she's got a 443 Offense stat. I didn't bother to keep track of numbers. Honestly, I thought it would be better to see how the bump to Offense "felt". My big question was, "Will I notice a difference?"
The answer is: Yes. Compared to Live, it was a very noticeable difference in my speed at mowing down VIPER goons.
Maybe I'll try to get some combat logs analysis to give a hard number comparison, but don't hold your breath on that. I'll just say the tweaks on Offense do make it more worth it. How much more worthwhile will probably be subjective.
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on PTS I was able to get Ego (through specs) around 46% and the same gear as my dex character. This with about 100% severity. I could get more severity too if I wanted to push numbers with Legion gear/Justice gear. my comparable dex character has 304 dex and 90 crit strike through a rank 6 gamblers, he has about 34% crit on PTS. On live you get between 30-35% crit with 2 gamblers gems in heroic gear. Currently on PTS my Strength Primary character has about 30% crit, using heroic crit gear. 10 dex = 30% crit, 304 dex = 34% crit, balanced? Then going back to ego, 46%, so again Ego is the reigning Crit champion.
For the Str comparison, the Dex character could use crit severity gear instead of crit gear, ending up at more overall severity.
I haven't copied my Ego main character over recently to try anything, though.
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Defense passives (the ones that add damage resistance) are just adding to the damage resistance from defense and specs, but there is a lot more damage strength from stats, specs and forms that is putting offense passives much higher in the diminishing returns.
Besides giving offense passives some much needed help compared to defense/support passives, this would also make some of the powers/specs that add damage strength a little more useful. Like things are now, something like Gravitational Polarity (adv on Force eruption) is just not worth the time it takes to cast.
I wasn't clear on my STR character, but thats 30% base crit. I wasn't counting Overpower which grants 23% crit chance to all melee attacks, for me. That would be about 53% crit chance, specific to melee attacks. The point still stands though that Dex is meant to grant the most crit chance, the entire reason for taking that stat is for crit. Yet its being outdone by other primaries thanks to crit strike gear, (the major issue in that is that Crit strike gear is on the same DR curve as Dex, whereas crit from the STR/EGO specs are fully independant of a curve).
Live% |Critstrike| PTS%
0.13% "Base" 3.8%
3.9% 47 13.4%
11.2% 95 19%
12.7% 103 19.9%
27% 198 26.4%
32.2% 245 28.7%
36.8% 302 30.8%
39.6% 349 32.3%
Note: Base and all numbers have 10 Dexterity.
Dexterity Scaling
Live%|Dexterity|PTS%
0.03% 5 2.2%
4.6% 63 14.1%
13.8% 120 20.5%
24.8% 191 25.5%
31.6% 249 28.4%
38% 329 31.4%
43.8% 461 34.9%
Dexterity+Critical Strike Scaling
Live%|Dexterity+CritStrike|PTS%
34% 72+204 29.5%
38.5% 134+204 31.7%
43.5% 249+204 34.7%
46.2% 461+103 36.8%
47.7% 461+204 38.2%
Edit: Only one instance of Penetration Core will take effect. Only one instance of Left Eye of the Ruby Dragon will take effect. Only one instance of Right Eye of the Sapphire Dragon will take effect. All of these require re-equipping of gear in order to work properly. Both eyes are multiplicative and on the same layer as [the current pts] Offense and our only multiplicative form.
Speaking of primaries, doesn't Quick Reflexes from Dex need to be adjusted anyways? Last time I checked, I couldn't even get 1% of dodge per point with it. They might as well revamp Combat Training while they're at it. At least bring Dex up to par with Str and Ego with crit chance. While I'm making suggestions about SS Dex, how about tossing Evasion out and giving us something like Con's Resilient? I can hit 83% avoidance with LR easily. Do we really need any more avoidance? I'd much rather have knock resistance, something most Dex builds lack severely, even if it's a little. I know, wishful thinking.
I think dodge gear *should* grant about ~5% more average mitigation due to the random nature of dodging. I would rather that mean increases in dodge chance than avoidance. Maybe even apply that 553 bonus hp to all the Justice primary defense items.