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Munition offensive passive

mog555mog555 Posts: 95 Arc User
edited September 2013 in Power Discussion
Greeting, I'm here requesting some help in explain between 2 main passive I got for my munitions. They are.

1.Kinetic Manipulation
.Got the highest damage increase for full munition so far
.Grant higher physical damage resistance than TC
.Grant energy as you get hit by crushing damage

2.Quarry
.Grant 1+ int and ego per stack of Audacity, max at 3 stacks, also some dodge and avoidence.
.Damage to both physical damage and some to other beside physical

I already used Targeting Computer but it doesn't seem to follow my concept, since his birth power was force but end up purely physical. So I recon most of my powers and stuck between KM and Quarry.

Dodge and Avoidence from Quarry look nice but I don't have Int super stat, so that bonus int kinda useless for me.

While KM look nice too, but all it does is grant bonus to all range physical damage and resistance. But also higher than other 2 passives.

So what your opinion on the 2 side?
Post edited by mog555 on

Comments

  • flamingbunnymanflamingbunnyman Posts: 2,035 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    At 600 total Superstats, R3 KM will give you about 58% damage, R3 Quarry will give about 47%.

    Quarry will protect you from all damage, KM will only protect you from ranged physical damage.

    If you're willing to reduce Quarry's damage bonus to about 39% (based on 600 SS again), You can take Fair Game and get a heal on every kill (including destructible objects).

    It's hard to say which passive is best for you without seeing your build, but Quarry is my go-to passive for physical damage; I only use different passives for physical damage if I have a specific reason.
    _________________________________________________
    @flamingbunnyman in game. Formerly @Roderick in City of Heroes.
  • jonesing4jonesing4 Posts: 800 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    I'm agreeing with the bunny here, Quarry is just much more versatile (especially if you're willing to reconfigure your superstats). I only abstain from Quarry because I get bored of picking the same passive, theme-wise.
  • mog555mog555 Posts: 95 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Mmm......... let me check on them and see if I can find one that suit me well.
  • ayonachanayonachan Posts: 557 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Kinetic Manipulation has two protections from physical damage(like all other ranged dps passives) but it provides about 25% less than than the other ranged dps passives for some reason or other. Kinetic Manipulation provides protection from all physical damage and then protection from all ranged physical damage. Keep in mind that this is just a reduction to physical damage type.

    Quarry boosts your dodge chance based on rank by a static amount. This static amount is added directly to your current dodge chance example: 10+18 = 28%. Quarry also has audacity which stacks to 3 and lasts 15 seconds every time you use a damaging power that isn't your energy builder and the power doesn't even have to hurt the enemy in order to gain a stack. Audacity sports an avoidance% bonus per stack and boosts your intelligence and ego stat by up to 30 per stack for a grand total of 180 extra stats. The stat boost scales on your intelligence and at 300 intelligence and rank 3 you will reach the 30 stat cap. Quarry's physical damage bonus is about 80% of what an equal stat-ed and ranked Kinetic Manipulation user has. Quarry's non-physical damage bonus is about half of what its physical damage bonus is.

    In some cases, quarry's audacity can provide more bonus to your damage than kinetic manipulation can. It all is based upon your superstats and what you wish to do. I say try them both out if you have the resources otherwise go with what you would like.
  • mog555mog555 Posts: 95 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    It divided into 2 part if I chose depend on my own.

    1. Power Check:

    Quarry are pretty good, like most people said. It grant bonus to both physical and some to non physical damage, ego and int scaling, dodge and avoidence. Also Audacity stack up to 3 times and refresh. It easy for extra ego and int and work highly well with lead tempest advantage. Highly use for most solo or even crit job.

    2. Concept Choice: Fenrir of the Run world

    If looking at the concept, it lead to KH, due to the character I made was originally force, but he mainly use munitions. Well, a wolfman with guns. KH grant high physical damage due to munitions mainly do physical damage. It also grant physical resistance and energy if hit by crushing damage, but nothing for other beside physical. So it fairly useless again magic attackers. But that aura look pretty good.

    So it wrap up as with Quarry I can dodge more often from most damage, but it advantage seems fairly weak if fight in the air but useful on the ground. But hold still get me kill anyway. While KH let me takes some 2 or 3 hit extra before I passed out from physical attack........ well I use Sniper anyway. Since I always mobile it help me a lot, but I still need 1 last power to make up my heal if I don't pick Quarry. Then again everything has an exchange.............

    (Didn't expect that one) 300+ Resource surely isn't cheap
  • mog555mog555 Posts: 95 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Thank you for all the respond. Let me try them out since I still in the PH

    And that story concept, was start from this game. A wolfman with gun fairly fun for some reason to ask around. :biggrin:
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    So to sum up:

    Kinetic Manipulation: Never.
    Quarry: Always.
    Both: Shining example of why the entire powers system needs to be updated.
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 7,065 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    spinnytop wrote: »
    So to sum up:

    Kinetic Manipulation: Never.
    Quarry: Always.
    Both: Shining example of why the entire powers system needs to be updated.

    -Or- why Force Powerset needs to be looked at. KM has always been a strange passive.

    It can lead to some very nice results especially with 2GM and munitions powers, but it's lack of defense (as pointed out) vs Quarry makes it a poor choice.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    I find it unlikely that KM is the only issue that needs to be looked at.
  • mog555mog555 Posts: 95 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Truly, KH provide pretty good physical damage protection in a very nice aura. But the only thing is lack is non physical resistance.

    While mainly KH can take more physical attack but useless in non physical attack and minions has more than 1 damage type. If more of heavy char then KH will be decent in physical purely. But beside physical it does nothing.......... surely I too agree they need to look at it, being 1 of the rare slot to be use
  • foosnarkfoosnark Posts: 168 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Kinetic Manipulation is the only passive I have never used. (Yeah, I have one with Medical Nanites and two with PFF.)

    I almost am tempted to try it just for completeness. I want to put together a chain-themed character, and that'd limit me to the physical chains rather than the toxic ones though...
  • foosnarkfoosnark Posts: 168 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    gradii wrote: »
    OH the chain theme! :biggrin: I've tried that a couple times. its hard to make work well. I have no doubt its doable somehow though.

    Yeah, it has a few holes and relatively weak powers. I wound up starting an infernal chains character that will probably do all right, but nothing spectacular -- all the non-chain infernal powers have much better DPS.

    I'll probably do something with Kinetic Manipulation next because the idea's planted itself. It's probably going to be painful though.
  • gerberatetragerberatetra Posts: 821 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    mog555 wrote: »
    Truly, KH provide pretty good physical damage protection in a very nice aura. But the only thing is lack is non physical resistance.

    While mainly KH can take more physical attack but useless in non physical attack and minions has more than 1 damage type. If more of heavy char then KH will be decent in physical purely. But beside physical it does nothing.......... surely I too agree they need to look at it, being 1 of the rare slot to be use

    Kinetic Manipulation is an offensive passive, so any defense it provides is to be honest negligible.

    As a Munitions passive it's actually pretty good.


    It's not my go-to, that'd be Quarry.

    I've tried Quarry, Targeting Computer and Kinetic as off pass for Munitions toons all the way to 40 and in some late game content after that.

    KM and TC have one thing in common, they're good for alpha striking goons into the dirt. No questions, kill henchman and ask questions later.

    Neither as a rule are good on their own if anything lives long enough to hit you back. Good news, they usually don't

    Quarry is better on the defense and has the nice bonus of getting better after the fight goes on a bit [As does TM but ymmv].

    None of them are great defensively but that's why they are Off Pass.

    All of these benefit from a self heal and an active defense 'oh ****' button. My recommendation for all of those three is Masterful Dodge [edit- thanks gradii] and Bountiful Chi w/Resurgent Reki. Quarry's dodge bonus makes this work even better.

    So yea, Quarry.

    However- if, like me, you've done that to death [like three times] try KM or TC.

    If you want to get crazy in the hot sauce, try Pestilence [Crazy I know but it really does work and suddenly Toxic Nanites go great with everything].

    None of the other options are -as- optimal as quarry but with the diminishing returns issue, if you get decent gear and aren't trying to be leet but just have some fun with a strange alt, you could do worse than these other options.


    Here we are now going to the West Side
    Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
    Some may come and some may stay
    Watching out for a sunny day
    Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm


    In game as @forgemccain
  • shadowzero66shadowzero66 Posts: 331 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    If you want to get crazy in the hot sauce, try Pestilence [Crazy I know but it really does work and suddenly Toxic Nanites go great with everything].

    Pestilence + Toxic Nanites + Defile w/ Plague Bearer advantage

    YO DAWG I HERD U LIEK TOXIC DOTS :tongue:
    Grind for the Grind God! Tokens for the Token Throne!
  • foosnarkfoosnark Posts: 168 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Pestilence is REALLY good for taking out minions. Just do a smidgen of AOE damage and then forget the minions and concentrate fire on the tougher one.

    Pestilence and Quarry are my two favorite offensive passives.
  • chalupaoffurychalupaoffury Posts: 2,553 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    pestilence with lead tempest/tread softly is HILARIOUS.

    That said? God, avoid targeting computer like the plague. By the time you get a lock on most mobs, they're already dead. It can be ok for bosses, but you actually hit a wall for dps because of how long it'll take to lock on. Count that along with diminishing returns, and well...

    Ok, so here's a thing to consider. Most freeforms are already WAY past diminishing returns on an offensive passive. KM seems like a good idea at first, but ask yourself: am I using active offenses? Most of em will push you even farther into diminishing returns. How good is my gear? Again, the same. Stats? Yup. Where quarry shines is it won't give you as much direct increase to your dps, and instead gives multiplicative bonuses like crit chance and dodge. Less likely to get screwed over by the DR issues freeforms face. So, with that said?

    If you plan on defense stacking and taking stuff to make you crit harder, KM is *boss*. but i wouldn't expect much out of any other active offenses you take. If you plan on stacking (For example) ego surge with matter/energy, ice sheath, or any other actives that boost your dps as well as a crit chance? You're gonna throw comparable dps with quarry, compared to KM. Difference being? That dodge. That dodge helps.

    Just kinda my 2 cents on it. KM is great for a few different purposes (it's funny as hell with heavy weapons or might, I think the combo doesn't get enough love) but for muni on a freeform, it's actually a bit of a self nerf. Good enough, but you can do much better for your overall efficacy.
    In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008.
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  • gerberatetragerberatetra Posts: 821 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    gradii wrote: »
    is that what u meant? :confused:


    bargle nargle zous.. yep that's what I meant dang it


    Here we are now going to the West Side
    Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
    Some may come and some may stay
    Watching out for a sunny day
    Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm


    In game as @forgemccain
  • gerberatetragerberatetra Posts: 821 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    pestilence with lead tempest/tread softly is HILARIOUS.

    Oh good. Most people think I'm insane when I mention Pest/Munitions ^^

    That said? God, avoid targeting computer like the plague. By the time you get a lock on most mobs, they're already dead. It can be ok for bosses, but you actually hit a wall for dps because of how long it'll take to lock on. Count that along with diminishing returns, and well...

    Well TC boosts Crit chance once it gets going. As a DPS vs Bosses, it's actually pretty good, heck it can get downright evil but..

    It's not my favorite by any means.

    Ok, so here's a thing to consider. Most freeforms are already WAY past diminishing returns on an offensive passive. KM seems like a good idea at first, but ask yourself: am I using active offenses? Most of em will push you even farther into diminishing returns. How good is my gear? Again, the same. Stats? Yup. Where quarry shines is it won't give you as much direct increase to your dps, and instead gives multiplicative bonuses like crit chance and dodge. Less likely to get screwed over by the DR issues freeforms face. So, with that said?

    If you plan on defense stacking and taking stuff to make you crit harder, KM is *boss*. but i wouldn't expect much out of any other active offenses you take. If you plan on stacking (For example) ego surge with matter/energy, ice sheath, or any other actives that boost your dps as well as a crit chance? You're gonna throw comparable dps with quarry, compared to KM. Difference being? That dodge. That dodge helps.

    Just kinda my 2 cents on it. KM is great for a few different purposes (it's funny as hell with heavy weapons or might, I think the combo doesn't get enough love) but for muni on a freeform, it's actually a bit of a self nerf. Good enough, but you can do much better for your overall efficacy.

    Good thoughts.

    KM's shines in one way because it delivers all it's boost up front, right now.

    TC and Quarry take a moment to get there.

    Overall Quarry is the best and... you can do something odd with it..

    Depending on your build you can under gear Ego for other things because of how Audacity works.


    Here we are now going to the West Side
    Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
    Some may come and some may stay
    Watching out for a sunny day
    Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm


    In game as @forgemccain
  • joybuzzerxjoybuzzerx Posts: 882 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    When I was looking at Kinetic Manipulation, what I thought it could do was just give better resists period.

    A more offensive version of a PFF is what I was thinking.

    +18/21/25% Ranged Physical damage
    +9/10.5/12.5% All other Damage

    +4.7/5.6/6.8% Damage Resist
    +20/24/28% Physical Damage Resist

    I actually have no idea if I made the numbers to good compared to Defensive Passives, but the general idea being to give it a small resist to everything and big resist to Physical Damage.
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