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New Laser Swords... What Happened?

underchickenunderchicken Posts: 259 Arc User
First of all I'd like to apologize for getting a little overly heated about this particular topic here on the forums before the Patch hit. My aggravation with the development of the NEW powers got the best of me as I was trying to explain why things weren't being done right only to have it all fall on deaf ears. So, I'm sorry for that.

Now I would like to take the time to give some proper feedback on the subject once more. But first, I have a question to the players. How many of you are currently playing with the new powers and enjoying them?

I have been playing ALL weekend, starting early on Friday, and running Smash Alerts non-stop with a few Cybermind Alerts mixed in. You know how many players I've witnessed using the NEW powers for that entire time? ONE! I've seen 3 players TOTAL using Laser Sword attacks and only 1 player using the Particle Accelerator and Unified Theory(guess they hadn't picked up Particle Smash yet or simply didn't want it.) THIS is not normal player behavior when New Powers are released!! When the New Telepathy powers hit I was stuck in Alerts with 2-3 Telepaths using those new powers nearly every other Alert! So why aren't more people using the new powers? My best guess is because they quickly realized how limited conceptually and functionally they are before ever even leaving the powerhouse.

The ball got dropped into a dark, dank, bottomless abyss here guys!

So how can we save this? Well, there is still HOPE! The New Passive being worked on the for the set isn't quite finished, so take the time to go back over these powers and make the appropriate changes BEFORE releasing that Passive! My advice to the developers is to start listening to what your players are saying on this issue...

NEW PARTICLE SMASH FX!!!
WHAT? WHY? WHO thought this was a good idea? A TRON DISK.... REALLY? First of all, WE DON'T NEED MORE TRON JUNK IN THIS GAME!!! Second of all why the hell would you completely ruin ALL laser sword concepts by taking the actual LASER SWORD away from the hardest hitting attack in the set? My mind is officially blown over this one guys! CONCEPT BUILDS are a thing! I hate it, I despise it, I pray for it to be swept under the rug and never talked about again. GIVE US BACK OUR LASER SWORD!!!


NEW ICONS look fine enough, EXCEPT FOR F'ING PARTICLE SMASH(see above^)
I believe you gave Particle Accelerator the same Icon as Lightwave Slash, but this doesn't matter because you need to completely remove Particle Accelerator as a power anyway and instead combine it with the Laser Sword Power.


THINGS THAT NEED TO BE WORKED ON BEFORE GOING TO LIVE!!!

1) Power: Quantum Stability(RENAME to Plasma Drive)
-Give this power better defenses for melee users! Either Resist All Damage or Damage Absorption or something. ONLY Particle Dam Resist doesn't cut it for a melee passive!
-Keep Instability Stacking system.
-Quantum Instability AoE/Buff(RENAME to Plasma Discharge) Change this power from a Summon AoE/Buff to a PBAoE Buff. This makes it better for melee users and allows you to take full advantage of the short duration buff. (USE PLASMA BALL FX)
-NEW Advantage: Explosive Discharge. Your Plasma Discharge now Explodes from you with much greater force. This first strike of Plasma Discharge now does 3-4x the amount of the normal amount. Because of the added stress to your Plasma Drive you are unable to gain stacks of Instability for 10-15seconds after the effects wear off.

2) Power: Laser Sword(Reworked to include Particle Accelerator into it.)
-Change to a 3 strike Combo Attack.
-Each strike of the combo has a 25% chance to apply Plasma Burn to the target. Plasma Burns are refreshed when applying new applications.
-The 3rd strike of the combo grants Acceleration. You can not have more than 1 stack of Acceleration, but the stack can be refreshed.
-1pt Advantage: Accelerated Metabolism.
-2pt Advantage: Particle Accelerator.
-2pt Advantage: (Needs Name.) Turns your Laser Sword into a 90degree Cone, 5 Targets Max. All Targets have a 25% chance to have Plasma Burn applied to them each strike. If also using the Particle Accelerator Advantage, the debuff is only applied to the primary target.

3) Power: Particle Smash
-Return this powers function to how it was before you went all TRON crazy with it. Which means returning the Laser Sword and making it a melee power again.
-ANIMATION CHANGE!!! I would like to request we use 1 of 2 animations.
1) Use the AoE animation where you jam the end of your blade into the ground sending out a shockwave of Plasma Energy.
2) Use the Reapers Embrace(From Single Blade Set) animation and change the cone to 10degrees.

4) Power: Unified Theory(Would LOVE to see a rename on this power also, just because it just sounds STRANGE -_-)
-This power remains exactly how it is now also!!! Except for one small addition that will help in a big way!
-Instead of having the Unified(whatever they're called) Stacks doing nothing for the set other then to buff Particle Smash. Let's have them buff act as a REAL BUFF, and also help increase Particle Smash's effectiveness.
-NEW Unified Stacks now increase your Critical Chance by 5% and Critical Severity by 2% per stack! This allow's for an total increase of 15% Critical Chance and 6% Severity. What does this do? Well....
1) It now buffs your overall damage output.
2) It gives players a choice to try to maintain the extra power OR unleash it with a big Particle Smash that will force them to spend time regaining that power.
3) It sticks to the Particle Ramping Up Damage Theme the game has in place. A good example would be how Particle Rifle increases your Critical Chance/Severity as it is maintained.
4) It is difficult to abuse, if not impossible. A lot of people would take a power if it increased Crits, but the fact that this power requires the use of Accelerator and takes a good amount of time to fully build up should hinder people from using it with outside powers. At most, you'd be seeing some slightly better hybrid builds with Particle Rifles and Ranged Power Armor attacks.
-ANIMATION CHANGE!!! I would like to see the animation changed to Dragon's Bite(from Single Blade Set)
xaade wrote: »
Taking from Underchicken, we have the perfect opportunity to create a unique combo set and be on par with other powersets. I really don't see why we're so insistent on making so many new powers. His idea is to simply merge Laser Sword and Accelerator.

Think of it. The combo would be fluid, and have REAL FINISHERS. Here it is:

Rotation: 3x(3xLaser Sword->Unified)->Smash->Cutter*

*Cutter can be used inbetween to burst burns from Laser Sword applying burns.
thebuckeye wrote:
Okay so when you guys get back around to the Laser Swords can we have:

The Particle Accelerator power merged with the Original Laser Sword Combo Power. By having its stacks of particle burn being applied on the first and second swing and only on the selected target but still maintaining the AoE of Particle Accelerator. And having the third swing applying the Accelerator buff?

Getting unique animation for the Particle Smash ability. Maybe driving the blade of the sword into the ground.

These are just the most pressing requests I have for the laser swords...
thebuckeye wrote:
Actually if the Laser Sword combo were to become the cone AoE with a merger with Particle Accelerator, it would bring it on par with Two-Gun Mojo or Ebon Ruin. Because I can on Live (at 25) with a little bit of set up and not using Electric Form. Get the Basic Laser Sword to hit for a little more than 1k once all my Debuffs and Spec buffs are in place. At least I was getting those numbers against the spider at the end of the first Fatal Err0r mission.

So if Particle Accelerator AoE ability and all were merged with the Laser Sword and it became became the following:

Power: Laser Sword
+Now Hits up to 5 targets in a 90 degree cone in front of you
+Now The first 2 strikes of this combo have a 25% chance of Applying Plasma Burn to the selected Target with the Third Strike having a 100% chance of applying to the selected target and a 25% chance to apply to additional targets.
+Now The Third strike of this combo now Applies the Accelerator Buff to the player.
No other changes made.

I would be extremely happy about it. I also think this change would be more beneficial to the power as a whole for people to select it as it would have a higher degree of utility to the build outside of being the main power of a Laser Sword build. But that's just my opinion...
I just got to testing the Laser Sword powers for the first time. Yeah. First Time. I know I know, it would've been helpful if I was helping with the testing but I wanted to try the near final version. I can tell you it met my expectations. My expectation were bad though, so that's not good.

Firstly, shame on you for making Particle Accelerator look so boring! I mean really....that's pretty sad, in fact that's barely worthy of being called a power. Other than the issue I have with removing Earth Form 2.0-- I mean Quantum Stability, I have Two major problems.

1) Particle Smash. Its a tap cooldown power. It does about 8k taps on crit and (for me) about 12 seconds to recharge. With 3 unified theory stacks it does up to 25k damage with Electric Form (Note I couldn't use Quantum Stability). Oh, and it has a 35 foot AoE. Not for nothing, but this is the cherry pick power of the day. I don't need any of the Laser Sword powers to make this useful. Not saying it should be weaker without Unified Theory. Because I like it the way it is. But really now. Why is it a Tap power? There's an issue with the fact that all other good damage powers require a charge up, although they don't have Cooldowns (Except Gigabolt ;)) Thats irrelevant to the point. Tap damage attacks aren't smart. Also OH MY GOD I HATE THAT ANIMATION. THIS IS LASER SWORDS NOT TRON LEGACY RIPOFFS. MAKE A LASER SWORD SET AND NOT A TRON SET FOR ****'S SAKE.


2) Unified Theory. It is the worst power in the set. How could I say that? It makes Particle Smash more than double its damage. I'll tell you why. Because its a completely railroaded, gutted power. You have absolutely no choice to take Particle Accelerator with this power or its absolutely useless. Not for nothing, but isn't an 8 second charge excessive? Why can't it just be a 2 second charge? At least then its MILDLY REASONABLE to use without Particle Smash. What happened to "Be the hero you want to be"? I would like an advantage for it that increases its damage significantly but removes prevents it from granting Unified Theory stacks, then at least it could be good as its own power if someone wanted to use it without Smash and accelerator. Again, It still needs a shorter charge time. Particle Accelerator doesn't justify that. Nothing does.

Beyond these two major issues I have another complaint. Why is Particle Accelerator its own power? It does nearly the same damage as Laser Sword but with an uglier animation. No combo (which means it doesn't benefit from combo bonuses through specs) and a slightly cheaper energy cost. Can you just remove this power and toss the buff application in with Laser Sword? Its not like Laser Sword has anything worthwhile other than slightly higher damage, don't argue the case of Plasma Burns. Those are crap.
Replying to a comment about the Particle Smash's FX:

I don't like it on the basis its not a laser sword and these are supposed to be Laser Sword powers. It also feels like a cop out trying to rip off Tron.
Ok on the point of Laser Sword and PAccelerator. They Are Not. In fact they works completely independently. If it wasn't for Plasma Cutter's vast and numerous Issues, I'd even say that Laser Sword/Plasma Cutter is simple superior to new Laser Sword in every way. PAccelerator and Laser Sword would be better off merged.

As to the comment about This being like New Telepathy.

Look around, how is Telpathy doing? Terribly. But there are some things it got right. Like how its debuffs can be used without having to suffer through the entire set. New Laser Sword can't take its powers out of set to benefit. New Laser Sword has no real buffs, just dummy buffs to create a railroaded power system, which is totally fine for WoW. Not CO. CO is ABOUT mix and matching. These new powers go completely against that rhythm and create their own screwed up unsynchronized, disharmonious, clunky beat.
I don't normally post in the forums, but my main is a PA Blades offtank, so I have a minor investment in this topic and will make an exception. I don't like the new PA Blade powers, and there's really only one reason why: Particle Accelerator. It's a Tap power with a 30% chance to apply the Accelerator buff, and exists for no other purpose. The buff is necessary to apply stacks of Unified Theory, but to get the buff, you have to effectively stop doing significant damage (compared to, say, Laser Sword) for an arbitrary period of time, and you have to do so for each individual stack of UT you aim to acquire. In my opinion, it is neither desirable nor fun to use.

Hmm... I hope I'm not the only person seeing that a lot of the same issues are being brought up, and most seem to be coming to a similar conclusion.

Of course there have also been people here stating the New powers are FINE as is, they're happy with them. Yet I still believe the number of people actually playing with these power in game currently states otherwise. I honestly believe the same people that have stated that they're happy with these powers in there current form would be even HAPPIER with them if the proper adjustments were made to them. Those adjustments being...

-Combine the new Particle Acceleration power with the Laser Sword power and turn it into a combo!
-Give Unified Theory a unique buff that increases the effectiveness of the entire set, not just used to aid one single power!
-Change Particle Smash back into a Laser Sword ability! This power was near perfect BEFORE you added the Tron Disk fx to it.
-Listen to feedback while finishing up that new Passive!




So now that we have an understanding of what should be done to help the New Laser Sword powers, let's talk a little about that Tron Identity Disk FX.

I am well aware there are many people that would love to use this FX. Be it for a TRON Clone or a simple Digital Hero, a Cybernetic Olympian discuss thrower or a goofy Ultimate Frisbee Champion. The new FX has it's uses, I won't deny. The only problem with these concepts is that none of them are likely to be using a LASER SWORD also. Having this FX LOCKED behind, not one, but TWO Laser Sword abilities is mind boggling!

I think this poster has come up with the best direction to go with this power...
Make it a single-target ranged attack that chains to other nearby enemies, similar to Richochet Throw.

So here are my suggestions for the TRON Identity Disk Power...

NEW POWER: Digital Disk
(This power should use the current Disk FX from Particle Smash mixed with the throwing animation from Boomerang powers)

*Ranged Damage - Blast
*Range 100ft

You throw a well aimed disk at your foes that can bounce to several(10 Max), striking them each for Particle Damage before returning to you. Damage ramps up each time it bounces to a new foe(This power combines such powers as Ricochet Throw and Lightning Arc.)

The base damage of this power should be slightly higher than that of Lightning Arc. This is do to the fact that you are unable to move(or activate any other abilities) until the disk returns to you(Digitial Disk will be a trade off for increased damage at the cost of mobility and survivability.)

ADVANTAGE: Disk Detonation

*2pts

This changes your Digital Disk into a Targeted AoE(Kind of like how it is with Particle Smash currently.) The Disk will explode upon hitting your primary target, striking up to 5 targets. The primary target takes double the damage. This Advantage costs 2 pts as it changes the power to no longer effect your mobility or survivability(by not being able to activate other abilities.)


So there we are, I think everyone can be happy with these changes. Players will get to have those new Laser Sword builds they were so very much hoping for, and other players will get to use that fancy Tron Disk FX on it's own power that can be customized to fit any build! It's a WIN WIN as they say.


To TrailTurle and the Development Team, I ask you to PLEASE take this feedback seriously. We care about this game and we hope you do too!



EDIT: Edited to include some questions to help garner more precise feedback...

Do you agree with any of the suggested improvements?

Are there other improvements you would like to see made?

Answers to these type of questions would help this thread be much more productive than simple "I like the new powers" posts. Of course if you don't want to see anything changed at all than it's perfectly fine to state just that.
Post edited by underchicken on

Comments

  • cgta1967cgta1967 Posts: 86 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Wall of text crit overload........" hadouken ! "


    .
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  • gamehobogamehobo Posts: 1,970 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    First of all I'd like to apologize for getting a little overly heated about this particular topic here on the forums before the Patch hit. My aggravation with the development of the NEW powers got the best of me as I was trying to explain why things weren't being done right only to have it all fall on deaf ears. So, I'm sorry for that.

    I read your multiple pleas in the PTS forum and for the most part I agree with your concerns. You have both my empathy and my pity.

    If you plan to continue enjoying Champions Online it's my personal suggestion to just let it go. The combat of the game is and will remain poorly designed. There is no getting around it at this point without creating a whole new game.

    Again, you're right, and your passion and hard work on the subject is appreciated by me, but this entire subject will always fall on deaf ears.
  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 4,993 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    At the moment I'm leveling up my shiny new Telepathy build. It'll be a week before I play around with the new plasma powers. For me it's not lack of interest, it's just lack of time.
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  • jorifice1jorifice1 Posts: 588 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    You know, I WAS playing a new Lazar Sword Toon, but I just heard from your post that there are apparently a few critical Powers that have not been released yet (the Passive, especially) and so put him on hold until it is.
    Also, there is no Lazar Sword AT, so you will not see as many folks with this Power Set. And taking into account that the Freeform players tend to be a bit less likely to try to get into PUG's before they are ready (they are used to being the ones who make up for Leachers, Bots, and AFK "Players") and you have a situation where you are less likely to see many folks with this set very quickly.

    'Wen considered the nature of time and understood that the universe is, instant by instant, recreated anew. Therefore, he understood, there is in truth no past, only a memory of the past. Blink your eyes, and the world you see next did not exist when you closed them. Therefore, he said, the only appropriate state of the mind is surprise. The only appropriate state of the heart is joy. The sky you see now, you have never seen before. The perfect moment is now. Be glad of it.' Terry Pratchet The Thief Of Time
  • agentnx5agentnx5 Posts: 1,999 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    You tell em' Underchicken! :biggrin:



    PS: It's not a wall of text if it's formatted, and this is formatted (barely).
  • chaelkchaelk Posts: 7,732 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    I've been running the powers with Electric form. works fine... ecept for the usual aggro problems. Maybe electric form wasn't such a good idea.
    Mind you it does look funny with dark aura(heat dissipation haze, not a demon) on yellow

    Only problem i had was not reading the 8 second one properly and not holding the button for 0.5 instead of tapping it. Now i have that right it works great.
    Just got my self heals and sheild.
    I'm been partly following the Buckeye's Laser Knight build, except I swapped end for str becuse with Electric form, I have nbo end problem.

    accel, theory, smash... repeat.. stare at something...EB smack with sword a few times... remember what doing(ok I usually play ranged) repeat sequence.
    get aggro, hit heal ... sheild block is auto

    concentration is a wonderful thing... too bad I don't have it
    Stuffing up Freeform builds since Mid 2011
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  • underchickenunderchicken Posts: 259 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    jorifice1 wrote: »
    Also, there is no Lazar Sword AT, so you will not see as many folks with this Power Set. And taking into account that the Freeform players tend to be a bit less likely to try to get into PUG's before they are ready (they are used to being the ones who make up for Leachers, Bots, and AFK "Players") and you have a situation where you are less likely to see many folks with this set very quickly.

    Ok... so how do you explain the hundreds of players that were using the New Telepathy powers when that patch went live then? It was released under the exact same circumstances was it not?

    Of course, it could be argued that Telepathy as a power source is just FAR more popular than Laser Sword wielding. And if that's the case then why have even bothered wasting development time on this set. If it's THAT unpopular would they even be missed if they were removed from the game entirely? My guess is that that more people would LIKE to use a Laser Sword build, but quickly realize how lacking and underdeveloped it is.

    To the folks that have posted here so far. I would like to ask you to post here again with your thoughts on the Laser Sword set overall as it is on live after playing a completed build for a week or two. During that same post I would like you to take the time to share your thoughts of the current version of the powers compared to the requested changes found in the quotes from the OP.

    I eagerly await your input.
  • zahinderzahinder Posts: 2,382 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    If I was still a gold member I'd be eager to try out new laser sword powers.

    But, well.
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  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Ok... so how do you explain the hundreds of players that were using the New Telepathy powers when that patch went live then? It was released under the exact same circumstances was it not?

    Riight. Lets clear some stuff up. Not sure where you are getting the large figure of "hundreds of players" regarding New Telepathy. As soon as people realised/ read that multiple instances of debuffs cannot stack past 4 they gave up and reverted to old telepathy.

    The difference between New Laser Sword and New Telepathy:

    New Laser Sword:

    - Has unique Icons and SFX

    - Has no ranking issues or bugs to speak of (that I am aware of)

    - It may not have an exclusive passive BUT there are passives in game to support the damage type.

    - Was not delayed for over 10 months.

    New Telepathy:

    - Still waiting on unique icons and in combat SFX and FX in some cases

    - On the DAY it was released it was bugged. The powers didn't rank up past rank 1 damage wise.

    - Has been plagued with bugs since 13th of July and it only got worse as time went on. This was only recently fixed when Cybermind's Alert went to LIVE. This is a time span of over 1 month of NOT working as intended gameplay.

    - Was originally started in August 2012. A year later it has hit LIVE and is only now working the way it should.

    Please do not blow the numbers of New Telepathy users out of proportion nor it's popularity. At least Laser Sword users can work together for a greater effect. If a New Telepathy user has enough CD they can fast stack AND Detonate by themselves, they don't really need anyone else. Multiple instances of New Telepathy users generally results in counter productivity as we can detonate each others stacks of debuffs continually.
    Of course, it could be argued that Telepathy as a power source is just FAR more popular than Laser Sword wielding. And if that's the case then why have even bothered wasting development time on this set. If it's THAT unpopular would they even be missed if they were removed from the game entirely? My guess is that that more people would LIKE to use a Laser Sword build, but quickly realize how lacking and underdeveloped it is.

    I doubt Laser Sword is LESS popular than Telepathy. I do not see large swarms of telepaths running around in CO. Laser Sword's intended and "original" mechanic is damage, Telepathy has always been about crowd control and debuffing, two very different play styles which have been greatly affected by the On Alert Update, one was made significantly stronger and easier the other was crippled and kicked to the curb and later thrown a pair of crutches called Manipulator and Incapaciderps.

    This is not the case with Laser Sword.

    It did not take an incessant and almost painful amount of complaining and whining to get Laser Sword looked at. I am still in shock that we actually got a telepathy fix functionality wise, it seems like a mirage or an illusion.

    Laser Sword to me, seems like a mini set within a larger set which could be expanded on with more hands on deck. Then again this is the case for every single power set in CO.

    I was convinced at one stage Telepathy getting no love or even mention of the return of the Telepathy Update was a sure fire sign of them liquidating the Telepathy Power set and making the Mind AT into a support ranged TK build.
    To the folks that have posted here so far. I would like to ask you to post here again with your thoughts on the Laser Sword set overall as it is on live after playing a completed build for a week or two. During that same post I would like you to take the time to share your thoughts of the current version of the powers compared to the requested changes found in the quotes from the OP.

    I eagerly await your input.

    You are already aware of what I think about the laser sword powers. I honestly like them, (Particle Accelerator would look better attack wise if it was like Reapers Caress in terms of attack movement) but all in all. I do like it.

    I think though..it DID change (not as drastically as Telepathy did but it changed) from pure laser sword theme to Plasma/hi-tech warrior with plasma weaponry, which isn't too far fetched when you think about it.

    Overall:

    - Does great damage (if my tests in PH were anything to go by)

    - Feels like the most complete mini-set since..well ever.

    I will say, I do think my view of this set is coloured by the treatment New Telepathy received in the sense that it didn't even touch how flawless (production to LIVE stage) Laser Sword has been. There have been no bugs like them not ranking up or Particle Smash consuming energy but not dealing damage or Particle Accelerator applying Plasma Burn to self or something gamebreaking. They are useable, functional and look good. New Telepathy had none of that, it was shoved out into the LIVE play ground with it's trousers down and tissue stuck to it's shoe. It has only VERY recently had it's trousers pulled back up, we are still waiting for the tissue to be removed.

    Note: It should be noted that I DO care about other sets outside of Telepathy and Force, or I wouldn't help test. Laser Sword is no exception. I am sort of bummed about how a few things turned out (like lack of Particle Passive and Particle Accelerator) but this does not even hold a candle to or equate to the hell that was New Telepathy. I actually find it sort of trivializing when New Telepathy and Laser Sword are compared like this. One was packaged properly and shipped out in record time and works as intended, the other was thrown outside in the rain without any form of protective coating, was almost a year late and was clearly NOT working as intended (hence the recent fixes).

    I can tell you this now, you will have an easier ride (I reckon) than myself and gamehobo did when trying to get a power set looked at. I am not a naysayer, there is no reason for me to be so you won't have nothing but support from a number of people who want to see things improve on this front, which is more than what can be said for Telepathy's path to "victory".
  • underchickenunderchicken Posts: 259 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Riight. Lets clear some stuff up. Not sure where you are getting the large figure of "hundreds of players" regarding New Telepathy. As soon as people realised/ read that multiple instances of debuffs cannot stack past 4 they gave up and reverted to old telepathy.

    I'll give you that HUNDREDS may have been a tad exaggerated. But you CAN NOT tell me that the first weekend/week New Telepathy hit live that there weren't FAR FAR FAR more players using those powers then what's being seen from New Laser Sword! The fact that the Telepathy powers were a BROKEN MESS on release only further emphasis's this point I'm trying to make. The New Laser Sword powers do not function well at all, and are NOT FUN to use in there current state.
    The difference between New Laser Sword and New Telepathy:

    New Laser Sword:

    - Has unique Icons and SFX
    OMG! YES! The shiny ICONS will make it all better!!:rolleyes:

    - Has no ranking issues or bugs to speak of (that I am aware of)
    This is of course a great plus, but it means NOTHING if the powers aren't completely developed!

    - It may not have an exclusive passive BUT there are passives in game to support the damage type.
    The Passive is SUPPOSE to be coming still, so this isn't even worth mentioning really.

    - Was not delayed for over 10 months.
    LMFAO, using that Telepathy delay hold ZERO ground. Yeah, it sucked that Crush got pulled away and wasn't able to keep working on the powers to finish up sooner, but you can't hold that as a legitimate reason why Laser Swords release was BETTER just because he didn't HAPPEN to get pulled away again while working on these also.

    New Telepathy:

    - Still waiting on unique icons and in combat SFX and FX in some cases
    Yep, Telepathy needs a few new Icons. Guess you didn't notice Particle Accelerators Icon is the same as Lightwave Slash did ya? Not that anyone could blame you, who would even use Lightwave Slash. At least Telepathy got some unique FX on SOME of it's powers. Yes the braintricity is quite lame, but I rather enjoy the others.

    - On the DAY it was released it was bugged. The powers didn't rank up past rank 1 damage wise.
    Legitimate complaint, never should have left PTS that way.

    - Has been plagued with bugs since 13th of July and it only got worse as time went on. This was only recently fixed when Cybermind's Alert went to LIVE. This is a time span of over 1 month of NOT working as intended gameplay.
    How long do you think Laser Swords shoddy performace will last? It's bug free, sure. But the powers just haven't been fully developed yet! Which is where my gripe stands!

    - Was originally started in August 2012. A year later it has hit LIVE and is only now working the way it should.
    There you go with the time frame again. Yes it sucked, but in the long run it meant nothing. How the powers were eventually developed is the only thing that matters here.
    I doubt Laser Sword is LESS popular than Telepathy. I do not see large swarms of telepaths running around in CO.

    You do realize those new Telepathy powers have been out for a good while now right? People do tend to get bored of playing one thing and move on to something new. But you know what they're not moving on to? The NEWEST thing we have, Laser Swords! Why is that?
    Laser Sword's intended and "original" mechanic is damage.

    But it's not ALL about the amount of DAMAGE something does people! It's should be about a lot more! What about set synergy? What about the potential for a larger number of concepts? What about keeping sets grounded to a basic theme, without tacking on special FX that simply DON'T BELONG in said set! What about FULLY developing new powers?

    Just like New Telepathy should have never left the PTS until all the bugs were hashed out, New Laser Sword should have never left PTS until the new powers were fully developed based the feedback that multiple players were giving! Not everyone seems to think they are God's gift to us like you do.
    It did not take an incessant and almost painful amount of complaining and whining to get Laser Sword looked at. I am still in shock that we actually got a telepathy fix functionality wise, it seems like a mirage or an illusion.

    Wait.... WUT!? Are you being serious here? <.< >.>

    THAT'S BECAUSE NOBODY ASKED FOR IT TO BE LOOKED AT!!! LoL. Telepathy was called out for AGES to be looked at. Nobody asked for New Laser Sword powers, it was nothing more then a DELIGHTFUL SURPRISE when they first hit the PTS. We were all like, HEY NEAT! That quickly grew into massive disappointment for myself and who knows how many others. The fact that the Laser Sword itself was removed from the Final Power in the New Rotation and replaced with that Tron Disk the DAY before it was scheduled to go live so that proper feedback was UNABLE to be given showed a HUGE lack of respect from the Devs to this playerbase!

    I was convinced at one stage Telepathy getting no love or even mention of the return of the Telepathy Update was a sure fire sign of them liquidating the Telepathy Power set and making the Mind AT into a support ranged TK build.

    You sure are talking about Telepathy a lot here, don't you have other threads you could be doing that in? This thread is for the Improvement of Laser Sword powers!
    You are already aware of what I think about the laser sword powers. I honestly like them, (Particle Accelerator would look better attack wise if it was like Reapers Caress in terms of attack movement) but all in all. I do like it.

    Ok, you like them. That's fine. But you have YET to compare the current form of these powers to the quoted suggestions listed in the OP! After comparing, can you still say you would be HAPPIER with the powers in there current form as apposed to being further developed?

    Sure, some people can be happy with the current powers(I'm not!) I just can't understand how you can sit there and say they shouldn't try to further develop these powers so that they function BETTER! Why do we as a playerbase suddenly feel like we NEED to settle for meh, just because it's something?
    I think though..it DID change (not as drastically as Telepathy did but it changed) from pure laser sword theme to Plasma/hi-tech warrior with plasma weaponry, which isn't too far fetched when you think about it.

    Except for the fact that it completely destroys most concepts players want to make with Laser Swords OR Tron Disk user. Having these powers LOCKED in with each other directly is an absolutely HORRIBLE idea! I would LOVE to have a Tron Disk trow power as long as I could focus on just that if I wanted to, why am I REQUIRED to have a Laser Sword in order to use it? This makes ZERO sense to me.
    - Feels like the most complete mini-set since..well ever

    LOL WUT!?!?!?! You gotta stop trying to make me laugh! How can I take you serious when you say such things!

    So, you see 3 UNDERDEVELOPED powers as the MOST COMPLETE Mini-set EVER added to the game? REALLY!!?

    Well, to be honest. Particle Smash WAS perfect just before the Tron Disk was added to it and it was changed into a ranged power. It could have used a new LASER SWORD animation and it would have been great! Only makes what they did all the more heartbreaking.

    But back to my point, you seem to have fallen under the conclusion that the only thing DPS set's NEED are High Damage Numbers. You gotta stop thinking like this Raven, Telepathy is not the only Set that deserves unique features and proper functionality/synergy. I do hope you keep on fighting for Telepathy, but stop doing it at the cost of other sets please.
    I will say, I do think my view of this set is coloured by the treatment New Telepathy received in the sense that it didn't even touch how flawless (production to LIVE stage) Laser Sword has been. There have been no bugs like them not ranking up or Particle Smash consuming energy but not dealing damage or Particle Accelerator applying Plasma Burn to self or something gamebreaking. They are useable, functional and look good. New Telepathy had none of that.

    You continue to go on about bugs, I understand that Telepathy was riddles with them. But you know what? I actually PLAYED a New Telepathy build from 0-40(BUGS AND ALL!) The bugs weren't GAMEBREAKING either. The powers themselves were still quite enjoyable or I wouldn't have bothered getting to max level with them. I happen to PREFER Laser Sword to Telepathy though, I like the look of it. Yet I CAN'T play with these new powers because they are all glued at the hip together, and don't all use Laser Swords(which completely crushes any concept I could think of.) I would LOVE to be able to use at least SOME of these new powers, but I can't. I don't know how I can explain this any better really. But it should be OBVIOUS that New telepathy was released in a more ENJOYABLE way(riddled with bugs and all.)

    Note: It should be noted that I DO care about other sets outside of Telepathy and Force, or I wouldn't help test.

    Could have fooled me.:rolleyes:
    I actually find it sort of trivializing when New Telepathy and Laser Sword are compared like this. One was packaged properly and shipped out in record time and works as intended, the other was thrown outside in the rain without any form of protective coating, was almost a year late and was clearly NOT working as intended (hence the recent fixes).

    Still missing the point here, a point which I do hope I have hammered away long enough in this reply for you to finally understand.
    I can tell you this now, you will have an easier ride (I reckon) than myself and gamehobo did when trying to get a power set looked at. I am not a naysayer, there is no reason for me to be so you won't have nothing but support from a number of people who want to see things improve on this front, which is more than what can be said for Telepathy's path to "victory".

    This last quote kind of goes against EVERYTHING you rambled off in your reply before hand. I don't understand how you can say the new powers are fine and then say here that you're offering nothing but support to those who want to seen things improved? I believe that is what they refer to as a "Juicy Contradiction!":wink:
  • cascadencecascadence Posts: 505 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    *grabs some popcorn and wonders if this is a contest to see who has the longest post* =p.

    In all seriousness tho, ill give my 2 cents on the matter.

    Don't have anything against the Tron disk FX, in fact I like it. I feel the whole set could use a little more of synergy with the existing powers... or at least fuse some of the new powers with the old ones.
    ___________________

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Click up there if you want to find more about the costumes behind my heroines.
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    I'll give you that HUNDREDS may have been a tad exaggerated. But you CAN NOT tell me that the first weekend/week New Telepathy hit live that there weren't FAR FAR FAR more players using those powers then what's being seen from New Laser Sword!

    Telepathy has needed some form of boost since Beta. No one can tell me other wise. As time went on it just got worse. Laser Sword Powers are relatively new in comparison, so it would be understandable that more people used (notice the past tense usage here) New Telepathy when it came out. This was probably based on what the tooltips at the time said. Which was complete and UTTER misinformation. AFAIK, this is NOT the case with Laser Sword.
    The fact that the Telepathy powers were a BROKEN MESS on release only further emphasis's this point I'm trying to make.

    I'm not sure why you'd compare the two. Laser Swords new additions can be used, parts of the powers do not turn off or cease to function against a special group of enemies. Neither does the damage heal foes in combat. Using the term "Broken mess" doesn't even scratch the surface of how bad New Telepathy was when it came to LIVE.
    The New Laser Sword powers do not function well at all, and are NOT FUN to use in there current state.

    Function in terms of what exactly? Are they not damaging? I explained to you already that these powers (and perhaps future powers) seem to be designed to work together, whilst this may not be ideal for some it can and does produce desirable results. I will agree combat FX wise they are lack lustre, I never claimed they weren't. However what may be fun to you is not everyone's definition of fun.


    Regarding your highlighted responses:

    1) Gives the powers a fully developed feel. So yes, it can help. If every single laser sword power had Laser's Edge Icon, how would you react? I would call it a lack of proper development.

    2) Perhaps you are defining developed and mixing it in with your own feelings about what is fun? What I understand by "X is developed properly" is that it works as intended, it contains no bugs and can work well in the situation it is applied to. From what I understand this IS the situation with Laser Sword.

    3) Since the passive is still on it's way then that remains to be spoken about. Without CoS there is nothing in game which increases Ego DoT AND provides Defense Penetration (in a passive form)

    4) Incorrect. Whether it was an unforeseen delay or not, it was still a delay. It is MORE than enough of a legitimate reason to use. Cryptic North can produce content (and I'd assume powers as well) and have been working on CO since JAN, so they could have taken over and developed it. Pretty sure if your flight to your holiday destination was delayed by 10 hours you would say that your holiday has been ruined slightly, in comparison to someone else who had a smooth transition from home to holiday without any delays, in a similar vein/line of thinking, Laser Sword was significantly better produced and moved to LIVE because there was not a massive delay.

    5) Yes "At least it did". Should I be expecting less for Telepathy? A number of people would probably tell me yes I should. Icons are all part of production of a power. Hopefully (with a little push) this will be sorted out soon anyway. But really then, it shouldn't take so long outside of the power development time frame to get powers fixed. I reckon I would STILL be running around without powers working properly if I hadn't complained so much, started a number of threads and TT hadn't emailed it forward.

    6) Not so much a complaint as a solid fact. Everything I stated in that last post (regarding highlighted replies by yourself) was a fact.

    7) Honestly? I am not sure, but if of all the things in CO to be fixed, TELEPATHY got a fix then there isn't a doubt that laser sword can be looked at again.

    8)
    "There you go with the time frame again. Yes it sucked, but in the long run it meant nothing."
    - In the long run it meant I missed out on 10 months worth of additions to the game because I lacked the powers to join in. It meant that my MAIN CHARACTER was rendered unplayable for the best part of a year. It meant that other people quit the game and gave up, some of who were my friends because of this delay. Perhaps to you, it meant nothing, that doesn't mean it meant nothing to everyone.
    "How the powers were eventually developed is the only thing that matters here."
    - Using my definition of development (aforementioned) I think the same quote from you can be used in my favour. If the journey towards something is hell, who gives a crap about the EVENTUAL destination?
    You do realize those new Telepathy powers have been out for a good while now right? People do tend to get bored of playing one thing and move on to something new.

    Telepathy powers have been out since around a month or so, but only since Cybermind's LIVE alert have they actually started to be working as intended. If people don't want to stick to a power sets powers because in their estimation "it sucks" that isn't my fault.
    But you know what they're not moving on to? The NEWEST thing we have, Laser Swords! Why is that?

    "People" <-- is this term directed exclusively towards people you know who think it sucks? Or is this people in general. I have seen new Laser Sword users in PvE, PvP and in Cybermind. Laser Sword is not that much of a well known set, it just hasn't been around that long.
    But it's not ALL about the amount of DAMAGE something does people! It's should be about a lot more!

    I agree with you here, honestly I do, it should be about theme, increased concept ideas etc.
    What about set synergy?

    I asked the same question when Telepathy was in development. There is NO set synergy between old and new play styles. Laser Sword and Telepathy both have old and new components which can be used together but lack the flow that they should ideally have.
    What about keeping sets grounded to a basic theme, without tacking on special FX that simply DON'T BELONG in said set!

    #Brain-TricityWTF?! Also another thing, Telepathy used to have a specific look and this has changed significantly.

    Just like New Telepathy should have never left the PTS until all the bugs were hashed out, New Laser Sword should have never left PTS until the new powers were fully developed based the feedback that multiple players were giving!

    Buckeye, xaade and yourself are the multiple players I believe (in this instance). I do believe that these powers could have taken into account more of the feedback. However, I am inclined to believe that there is some form of schedule and the laser sword powers needed to be shipped out (I am in NO way condoning the fast shipping out of powers from PTS. New Telepathy's once fragility on LIVE should be a clear indication of this.) I can only support the release of the passive when it arrives and hope it has taken into consideration the feedback left by you guys.

    Not everyone seems to think they are God's gift to us like you do.

    Just because my opinion of them is positive in the main, does not mean I believe they are "God's gift". If that is the way you think I am, then you are already approaching this from the wrong angle.


    Wait.... WUT!? Are you being serious here? <.< >.>

    THAT'S BECAUSE NOBODY ASKED FOR IT TO BE LOOKED AT!!! LoL. Telepathy was called out for AGES to be looked at. Nobody asked for New Laser Sword powers, it was nothing more then a DELIGHTFUL SURPRISE when they first hit the PTS.

    Buckeye has been asking for Laser Sword additions and ways to make the power set better for a loooong time. Suggestion after Suggestion after Suggestion. So yes, someone DID ask for it to be looked at and it happened.
    We were all like, HEY NEAT! That quickly grew into massive disappointment for myself and who knows how many others.

    Get in line, this has happened to MANY powers ranging from Redirected Force to New Telepathy as a whole. I am no stranger to this painful feeling.
    The fact that the Laser Sword itself was removed from the Final Power in the New Rotation and replaced with that Tron Disk the DAY before it was scheduled to go live so that proper feedback was UNABLE to be given showed a HUGE lack of respect from the Devs to this playerbase!

    One power in comparison to Mind Wipe, MoTM,the entire astral entity army powers and the base mechanics of the powers as a whole being flipped from CC + a side of DPS to DPS with a side of CC. Don't know what I am talking about? I wouldn't blame you, a lot of people were not aware of these powers or mechanics at all.

    I was surprised when it was changed (Particle Smash power that is) from Laser Sword to a ranged power. I am unsure as to why this happened. I think it would have been cooler to use a Reapers Embrace FX with Kirby dots around it on detonation or something.

    You sure are talking about Telepathy a lot here, don't you have other threads you could be doing that in? This thread is for the Improvement of Laser Sword powers!

    If this is the case, don't bring Telepathy here in the first place. You were the one who mentioned it before and compared it to Laser Sword.

    Ok, you like them. That's fine. But you have YET to compare the current form of these powers to the quoted suggestions listed in the OP! After comparing, can you still say you would be HAPPIER with the powers in there current form as apposed to being further developed?

    By "further developed" you mean "changed almost entirely". I have told you before I do like some of the suggestions regarding changes to these powers, have you considered that in some cases this MAY not be advisable to do? ( I have no basis for saying this, but I do know that some suggestions like when I asked for Despair Bomb on players, it was explained why this could not see the light of day in THAT format.)
    Sure, some people can be happy with the current powers(I'm not!) I just can't understand how you can sit there and say they shouldn't try to further develop these powers so that they function BETTER! Why do we as a playerbase suddenly feel like we NEED to settle for meh, just because it's something?

    Suddenly? You make it sound as if all the powers before Laser Sword worked perfectly and everyone was happy with them. This is not the case.
    Except for the fact that it completely destroys most concepts players want to make with Laser Swords OR Tron Disk user. Having these powers LOCKED in with each other directly is an absolutely HORRIBLE idea! I would LOVE to have a Tron Disk trow power as long as I could focus on just that if I wanted to, why am I REQUIRED to have a Laser Sword in order to use it? This makes ZERO sense to me.

    I never disputed this, I was just trying to see these powers in a more positive light.
    How can I take you serious when you say such things!

    So, you see 3 UNDERDEVELOPED powers as the MOST COMPLETE Mini-set EVER added to the game? REALLY!!?

    Stop laughing and focus. By complete, I mean NO BUGS. New Telepathy had DOUBLE the powers and was bullet ridden with bugs. Mini-set, to my knowledge there hasn't been several additions to a power set this year that was called a "mini-set", except for Laser Sword and New Telepathy.

    They lack development in your eyes because it is not what you deem to be fun. I agree particle smash ruins sole Laser Blader concept like Brain-tricity from Mental Storm puts a large dent in the Telepathy theme/concept.
    But back to my point, you seem to have fallen under the conclusion that the only thing DPS set's NEED are High Damage Numbers.

    What you have done is this, you see that I am not agreeing with you in the sense that I am complaining alongside you about all the powers, so you have taken it as sign of opposition to your cause. As a result you have concluded that no matter what I say it must be anti-laser sword.

    A DPS set needs to make sense, both functionality wise and concept wise. Perhaps if Particle Smash was altered to be a PA or Gadgeteering power and worked with something else then you would be happy. The powers, as I said before, seems to be more along the lines of "Particle Warrior with hi tech plasma/particle gadgets" rather than a Laser Sword "Jedi" (in the sense that it is all about the blade and only the blade).
    You gotta stop thinking like this Raven, Telepathy is not the only Set that deserves unique features and proper functionality/synergy. I do hope you keep on fighting for Telepathy, but stop doing it at the cost of other sets please.

    Not sure who's thought pattern you are presuming to be assessing but it certainly is not mine. I never implied or outright said that Telepathy is the only set that deserves unique features and proper functionality/synergy, that is utter BS, not sure where or who you got that from. This only serves to prove what I said above regarding how you are viewing my posts.

    Laser Sword has a unique feature of detonation via Particle Smash, I have never fought against mechanics for other power sets. Ever. Every power set (In my opinion) deserves to fill it's intended concept without loosing functionality whilst doing so. I am not trying to down play other power sets in my fight for Telepathy, that is the last thing I want.

    Are you blaming me/telepathy fans for Laser Swords state when you say:
    I do hope you keep on fighting for Telepathy, but stop doing it at the cost of other sets please.

    I actually PLAYED a New Telepathy build from 0-40(BUGS AND ALL!) The bugs weren't GAMEBREAKING either.

    I am sure you don't want me to go over the list of bugs which ruined the Telepathy experience for myself and others. Do you? Since this thread is exclusively MEANT to be about Laser Sword...

    But I will say this, you were likely playing on a DPS version of these powers and as a result, as long as you saw damage it was fine, probably relying on out of set heals to allow you to survive. As a result most of these bugs you were completely blind to. I on the other hand was not, I know what these powers SHOULD do and what they should NOT do. Before the fix they were NOT working as intended. I am pretty sure healing your foes is gamebreaking, DoTs disobeying combat rules by being dodgeable is game breaking too to mention a few.

    The powers themselves were still quite enjoyable or I wouldn't have bothered getting to max level with them. I happen to PREFER Laser Sword to Telepathy though, I like the look of it. Yet I CAN'T play with these new powers because they are all glued at the hip together, and don't all use Laser Swords(which completely crushes any concept I could think of.) I would LOVE to be able to use at least SOME of these new powers, but I can't. I don't know how I can explain this any better really. But it should be OBVIOUS that New telepathy was released in a more ENJOYABLE way(riddled with bugs and all.)

    Because bugs are really FUN. Going into FATAL ERR0R and finding out aspects of your powers flat out have been switched off vs the entire instance of foes is also FUN. Exiting FATAL ERR0R to find some of your powers are switched of vs every single NPC in game is also FUN. Entering a friendly PvP match with a friend only to find you are healing them is also FUN and ENJOYABLE. Right?

    Mind Break practically requires all three DoTs to be used to the best of it's ability. Congress of Selves is also glued together with them as it buffs only FOUR in game powers. THREE OF WHICH ARE NEW TELEPATHY. I told you that like new Telepathy these powers work off each other.



    Could have fooled me.:rolleyes:

    That's the magic of Telepathy.
    Still missing the point here, a point which I do hope I have hammered away long enough in this reply for you to finally understand.

    The point is that you are not happy with these new powers and refuse to use them. You want them to be changed significantly. You also believe that anyone who has anything remotely positive to say about them is an enemy.
    This last quote kind of goes against EVERYTHING you rambled off in your reply before hand. I don't understand how you can say the new powers are fine and then say here that you're offering nothing but support to those who want to seen things improved? I believe that is what they refer to as a "Juicy Contradiction!":wink:

    Not really. As I said, I am giving my own opinion as you said you wanted peoples input. You have then proceeded to class it as "anti-Laser Sword" and fail to realise that whilst I may have a different opinion to you it does not stop me from wanting the powers to be improved.

    "Fine" is not the same as conceptually accurate. Mental Storm is FINE, in the sense that it works, it is in no way, shape or form conceptually accurate. Those who want a more guttural feel to Telepathy, almost primal feel, will enjoy the Mental Leech and Mental Storm animations far more than I ever will.

    You have not had the experience of waiting almost a year to play your main character, regardless of why, it has never happened to you. I am not entirely happy with Mental Leech or Mental Storm's FX but I make do with what I have, it's not ideal but it does the job. If there is an opportunity for discussion when it can be changed I will happily jump at the chance.

    It only looks contradictory because you are not viewing my response in the intended light, which was an opinion based on personal experience.

    If there is a legitimate chance of these powers being looked at I can assure you that I will grab my little #LaserSwordImprovementsNOW Flag and wave it about whilst Buckeye and yourself lead the way.

    As I said before, I am not a naysayer to this, stop trying to make out like I am one.

    EDIT: The whole message I am trying to get across is that you are making out like these powers have been butchered as much as New Telepathy was. This is so not the case. It's like comparing an Olympic athlete to a regular guy on crutches and an eye patch over his dominant eye and asking both to race and expecting the athlete to have a similar time to the regular guy.

    Laser Sword was a successful expansion of what was once PA, I think that Particle Smash was even changed mechanically to support Plasma Burn Mechanics from Laser Sword (Power).
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    I would urge you to look through the last PTS iteration containing the Telepathy Fixes and Laser Sword.

    I can count on one hand (one finger really) how many people seemed to even CARE that Telepathy was getting fixes.

    Compare that to Laser Sword. How many people bar yourself were so vehemently opposed to the powers? How many people bar yourself were interested in the new powers?

    My Damage and Thoughts Post

    I understand your frustration, and don't tell me I don't cause I will drown this thread in Telepathy History if you do.

    But comparison wise, I'd say Laser Sword is better off in every way than Telepathy.
  • underchickenunderchicken Posts: 259 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Still missing the point here, a point which I do hope I have hammered away long enough in this reply for you to finally understand.

    The point is that you are not happy with these new powers and refuse to use them. You want them to be changed significantly. You also believe that anyone who has anything remotely positive to say about them is an enemy.

    Nope, the nail didn't take at all. Guess I should have used a bigger hammer.:tongue:
    The POINT is that these powers were UNDERDEVELOPED on release! Which is the cause of why I am not pleased with said powers.

    I guess you never took the time to actually READ my suggested changes since you seam to think I'm asking for such a SIGNIFICANT change to these powers. I don't feel it's asking much at all to be completely honest with you. I just want the powers to continue being developed, as they were released before the finishing improvements could be made! These are the PRESSING issues with the set that need to be improved upon...

    -Particle Accelerator as it's own powers is horrible. It should absorbed into the Laser Sword power, and together made a combo power to take effect of Spec Trees!

    -Unified Theory just needs a UNIQUE BUFF added on to it that makes the power useful for the entire Laser Sword Set. I've given an example for such a buff in the OP, that makes sense of the 8 second charge time placed on this power.

    -Quantum Stability's SUMMON needs to be transformed into a PBAoE so that it's more Melee user friendly.

    -Particle Smash needs the sword returned and reverted back to it's melee functionality.

    If these 4 things were to happen, then I could call New Laser Sword fully developed.

    Not really. As I said, I am giving my own opinion as you said you wanted peoples input. You have then proceeded to class it as "anti-Laser Sword" and fail to realise that whilst I may have a different opinion to you it does not stop me from wanting the powers to be improved.

    Your approach has definitely not shown your desire to see these powers given any further development time, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

    Also, I have shown no ill will to anyone in this thread posting positive feedback towards the live version of these powers. I have only taken the time to respond to your post directly as you seemed more concerned about arguing why it's above and beyond better than Telepathy's new powers. An argument which I no longer wish to have with you because it is only causing this thread to get sidetracked. We're here to talk about Laser Swords. Bad feedback OR Good! But I would like to get more people to compare the current versions to the suggested improvements to see where folks stand. Still awaiting your comparisons by the way.:smile:


    Do you agree with any of the suggested improvements?

    Are there other improvements you would like to see made?

    Answers to these type of questions would help this thread be much more productive than simple "I like the new powers" posts. Of course if you don't want to see anything changed at all than it's perfectly fine to state just that.

    If there is a legitimate chance of these powers being looked at I can assure you that I will grab my little #LaserSwordImprovementsNOW Flag and wave it about whilst Buckeye and yourself lead the way.

    Out of pure curiosity, why do you feel that there ISN'T a legitmate chance now? These powers have just been released, why should the time not be taken NOW to make the required changes to them? I would think this would be the BEST time(correction: While they were still on PTS would have been the BESTEST time.) But much like we saw Telepathy(Yeah I know I brought it up again LoL) get a few fixes recently I would hope we could see the same kind of development time be made to Laser Sword to help it out too, even if we don't see these improvements for another month or two.
  • underchickenunderchicken Posts: 259 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Edited the bottom of the OP to include handy questions to help garner more precise feedback.
  • gavinrunebladegavinruneblade Posts: 3,781 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    But it's not ALL about the amount of DAMAGE something does people! It's should be about a lot more! What about set synergy? What about the potential for a larger number of concepts? What about keeping sets grounded to a basic theme, without tacking on special FX that simply DON'T BELONG in said set! What about FULLY developing new powers?

    Here's a key mistake. It SHOULDN'T be all about the damage something does. However, the way the developers are designing content, currently damage outweighs all other factors combined, and it does so by a large margin.
    It did not take an incessant and almost painful amount of complaining and whining to get Laser Sword looked at. I am still in shock that we actually got a telepathy fix functionality wise, it seems like a mirage or an illusion.

    It's a villainous plot. I'm not sure who's behind it, but I'm sure it must be.
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Nope, the nail didn't take at all. Guess I should have used a bigger hammer.:tongue:
    The POINT is that these powers were UNDERDEVELOPED on release! Which is the cause of why I am not pleased with said powers.

    Not sure if you actually read all of my post if so, the point and the fact of the matter would have gotten across a lot quicker. UNDERDEVELOPED in your definition is due to the fact that you are not pleased with Particle Smash as a power, in terms of FX and perhaps placement.

    Did you take the time to read what developed powers do in my post? If you did then you would see Laser Sword fits into that category.

    Its not that these powers were not developed properly, it's that you have an issue with the way they play. So instead of trying to mislead and say it is underdeveloped, you should instead suggest changes to the already developed powers instead of discrediting the work as underdeveloped simply because you don't like them.
    I guess you never took the time to actually READ my suggested changes since you seam to think I'm asking for such a SIGNIFICANT change to these powers. I don't feel it's asking much at all to be completely honest with you. I just want the powers to continue being developed, as they were released before the finishing improvements could be made! These are the PRESSING issues with the set that need to be improved upon...

    Another incorrect assumption. What is going on here? I get that you are passionate, but you seem to have taken particular issue with my opinion towards these powers. I never said I do not want them to be improved, I simply said they are not underdeveloped in the real meaning of the word. I will address your "improvements" now.
    -Particle Accelerator as it's own powers is horrible. It should absorbed into the Laser Sword power, and together made a combo power to take effect of Spec Trees!

    Combo Power. I asked why this could not be a combo power. I was told this would triple the number of powers needed to support it. Since I am not aware of the inner workings of this power I will take it as I heard it. I do not see how getting rid of one power is not a significant change.
    -Unified Theory just needs a UNIQUE BUFF added on to it that makes the power useful for the entire Laser Sword Set. I've given an example for such a buff in the OP, that makes sense of the 8 second charge time placed on this power.

    An 8 sec charge time which can be turned into an instant charge attack via one stack of Accelerator. Increasing crit chance and severity per stack? I am not aware of any power which for it's innate mechanic allows for this. So, I can't say I can see this happening. However Unified granting increased (5% per stack) particle damage to self would be more likely to happen. The 8 second charge time is there to dissuade usage of it without Particle Accelerator. AS THEY ARE MEANT TO WORK TOGETHER. Another change which would be pretty significant.

    -Quantum Stability's SUMMON needs to be transformed into a PBAoE so that it's more Melee user friendly.

    The summon ability should either follow your targets or have a strong enough pull to drag running foes towards it and ultimately you. This power is still in the works so we can only hope it is better.
    -Particle Smash needs the sword returned and reverted back to it's melee functionality.

    It can be used in melee range and at range. Conceptually for Pure Laser Sword Theme it would work better as a Reapers Embrace style single sword smash attack. Instead of demanding to have the sword back, look for a compromise, perhaps when used in melee range it applies the FX of a Laser Sword but at range you throw the disc. This allows for BOTH people who want to use the disc to do so and those who want to use sword only.
    If these 4 things were to happen, then I could call New Laser Sword fully developed.

    Precisely my point, this is all in your own opinion. It is not FACT that they are underdeveloped, it is simply your feeling towards their current state. Once that obvious distinction is accepted by you then you'll be able to progress.
    Your approach has definitely not shown your desire to see these powers given any further development time, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

    My approach? My approach towards Laser Sword has been to consider what has been developed and how it works, both in combat and from a conceptual point of view.

    I have never known powers to be pulled back from LIVE and given more development time unless they were gamebreakingly bad or were doing something they really should not: for example if Dragons Wrath was suddenly one shotting Cosmic Classed Villains by default (Rank 1).
    Also, I have shown no ill will to anyone in this thread posting positive feedback towards the live version of these powers.

    I think some of that "Juicy Contradiction" can be applied here, your previous responses to my posts say otherwise with regard ill will/malice.
    I have only taken the time to respond to your post directly as you seemed more concerned about arguing why it's above and beyond better than Telepathy's new powers.

    Even though it is clear to see that they are functioning a lot better than Telepathy's did, I was drawn here by your first comparison of Laser Sword and Telepathy, I didn't randomly bring it up.
    An argument which I no longer wish to have with you because it is only causing this thread to get sidetracked.

    Lovely. Stating facts about an old war does get tiring.
    We're here to talk about Laser Swords. Bad feedback OR Good! But I would like to get more people to compare the current versions to the suggested improvements to see where folks stand. Still awaiting your comparisons by the way.

    I have included my thoughts in this post with regard your four red highlighted statements.
    Do you agree with any of the suggested improvements?

    Not in all instances. In many there are things which you haven't taken into account like "does this already exist for other powers of a similar tier? etc" and as a result there are compromises which can be made like instead of increasing crit chance and severity per stack on Unified, it would increase particle damage done per stack.
    Are there other improvements you would like to see made?

    I've listed what could be done, based on what I believe could work well. I am not sure if animations for powers are tied to certain tags, which is why I have left out Particle Accelerator being turned into a combo power as an improvement.
    Answers to these type of questions would help this thread be much more productive than simple "I like the new powers" posts. Of course if you don't want to see anything changed at all than it's perfectly fine to state just that.

    Again, anything I mentioned was fuelled by you bringing them up. I didn't pluck them out of the air and slap them on the thread.

    Out of pure curiosity, why do you feel that there ISN'T a legitmate chance now? These powers have just been released, why should the time not be taken NOW to make the required changes to them? I would think this would be the BEST time(correction: While they were still on PTS would have been the BESTEST time.) But much like we saw Telepathy(Yeah I know I brought it up again LoL) get a few fixes recently I would hope we could see the same kind of development time be made to Laser Sword to help it out too, even if we don't see these improvements for another month or two.

    The difference is (since you brought up Telepathy), Telepathy additions were:

    - Not working as intended

    - Were lacking in development in the sense that some powers did not have unique icons, SFX or even FX to speak of.

    - Functions of the powers were fluctuating and for a time switched off entirely.

    All in all riddled with bugs.

    That is the main reason why I made the post which was shipped to the Dev Team for a great and quick fix and gained some development time to rework them so they worked. Which I imagine was no easy task.

    Then we look at Laser Sword.

    - Are there any bugs to speak of? No. Or I am sure you would have brought it up.

    - Are all of the functions working correctly? Yes. They deal damage, do not inflict self harm when trying to use them and do not stop working on certain foes.

    Legit reasons as to why I feel they are not likely to be looked at right now. Also new things may be in development or something. You never know, New Telepathy had to wait a month at least to get fixes, I posted and posted and posted. On the 13th of August I was all about ready to pack it in, I figured I'd make one last post which super compiled previous remarks and posts regarding the bugs, consolidating them in one neat package for Devs if they ever came across it. So I made my post FATAL ERR0R: Telepathy, linked it in my sig and waited...

    20th of August came around:
    FWIW, I emailed all these Telepathy bugs to LordGar to bump the thread and make sure they were fully aware.

    ^ Brightest ray of hope. EVER.

    Two days later? Release Notes: Telepathy had been fixed functionality wise.

    I'm still in shock. It can happen but the need/circumstance needs to be present for action to take place.

    IF New Telepathy from release had worked perfectly/as intended (like it does now), but I didn't like CoS's lack of FX or Mental Storm's brain-tricity FX and complained about it, I would be wasting my time, function wise they do their job it would be my own personal problem with the powers, not that they are not working properly or anything just cosmetic.

    Do you NOW understand why I said there isn't a legit reason for them to re work these powers to that extent?
  • crypticbuxomcrypticbuxom Posts: 4,443 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    I have never been more disinterested in a thread. This was why I avoided Telepathy. And how badly they were made.

    Can we all just agree that laser sword powers were added because GC wanted them for his character and move on?
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    I have never been more disinterested in a thread. This was why I avoided Telepathy. And how badly they were made.

    Can we all just agree that laser sword powers were added because GC wanted them for his character and move on?

    Lol :tongue:
  • chaelkchaelk Posts: 7,732 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    OMG, I stopped reading when I had to scroll down and down and down and down...
    where's that popcorn.

    no idea about the tron disk, haven't seen it when using. probably my settings or that I have veiwer way back

    others work well together.
    would like the passive for it, just to see what it's supposed to do but seems to work.

    no probs with recharge or CD
    Stuffing up Freeform builds since Mid 2011
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  • artmanpweartmanpwe Posts: 177 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Short answer to your first question: I have a character that is using the new LS powers, you haven't seen this character in an alert because she's not ready for primetime and eh, they feel a little clunky, feel a bit underpowered (I understand I will need to optimize my gear/spec moving from Ego Blade to LS).
    ...Since 2009.
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  • underchickenunderchicken Posts: 259 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    artmanpwe wrote: »
    Short answer to your first question: I have a character that is using the new LS powers, you haven't seen this character in an alert because she's not ready for primetime and eh, they feel a little clunky, feel a bit underpowered (I understand I will need to optimize my gear/spec moving from Ego Blade to LS).

    Well, be sure to come back around and let us know what you think of them once you get your build and gear altogether. Give us your input on what you end up feeling could be improved with the powers. Or if you end up liking them just how they are that works too.:wink:
  • underchickenunderchicken Posts: 259 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    chaelk wrote: »
    no idea about the tron disk, haven't seen it when using. probably my settings or that I have veiwer way back

    others work well together.
    would like the passive for it, just to see what it's supposed to do but seems to work.

    no probs with recharge or CD

    You probably aren't seeing the Tron Disk(as most using these powers wont, which kind of makes it a greatly wasted FX imho) because Particle Accelerator and Unified Theory are melee attacks. Therefor, you are most likely going to be using Particle Smash while in Melee range also. I mena, why on earth would you BACK AWAY from your opponent just to see an FX when the rest of your atttacks are melee attacks(this would effectively reduce your DPS as you take the time to back away and then move back into melee range.) All your going to end up seeing visually from Particle Smash is the Particle Explosion. Which looks like your bopping someone over the head with your ENERGY FIST OF JUSTICE! LoL

    :eek: Now I want Energy Melee as our next powerset. :tongue:
  • chalupaoffurychalupaoffury Posts: 2,553 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    tl;dr. Damn dude.

    I've been following it, tho, and know my reason for not using it? The passive isn't live, as far as I know. It's gimped at the moment. And I had to press Raven to 40. I sure plan on one of these when the passive goes live, however.
    In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008.
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  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    I think these powers will increase (damage wise) and perhaps in utility and popularity when the passive is released on LIVE.

    I would imagine it would be about as useless as having new Telepathy without Congress of Selves. In the sense that a power is missing.

    However, Ego Form + INT penetration specs could do roughly the same thing.

    Just like Electric Form would boost particle damage.

    I do hope they take your (@underchicken) FX for this passive, the stripped down Electric Form did not look good.
  • underchickenunderchicken Posts: 259 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    gradii wrote: »
    I don't mind the tron disk either. my comment was edited and taken out of context. cmon underchicken, don't misquote me.

    If that is indeed the case I removed your comment from the OP.
  • underchickenunderchicken Posts: 259 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Also, I'm giving up on this entirely as there doesn't seem to be much point anymore. Apparently folks like them just like they are(mind officially boggled.)

    I was really looked forward to getting some new Laser Sword powers for my character, but I guess I was doing fine with the old ones before so I'll just stick to those. Would be nice if the Pasma Burns not refreshing bug was at least looked into though.
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Would be nice if the Pasma Burns not refreshing bug was at least looked into though.

    Send me / state specifics and I'll see if it can't get passed on :smile:
  • underchickenunderchicken Posts: 259 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Send me / state specifics and I'll see if it can't get passed on :smile:

    Seeing as my original reply to this got removed (in record time I might add,) I guess I'll just have to stick to the short cleaned up version.

    I believe you've "HELPED" enough.


    *sigh* This post just doesn't quite have the impact it once had.:frown:
  • vashnknivesvashnknives Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Count me as one that is disappointed with the way the new laser sword powers turned out:

    Good:
    1) More AoE!!!
    2) More burn

    Not so Good:
    1) Particle Smash Animation
    2) Frustrating to use Unified Theory
    3) Duplication of Particle Acceleration names
    4) Not seemingly tying in the existing powers into the new acceleration, theory, smash attack pattern.


    The animation is that bad for me.... Is it a boomerang attack anim?! It makes me put up my sword and then doesn't use my power armor... :confused:
  • artmanpweartmanpwe Posts: 177 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    I think I nailed down what makes it all so clunky for me: Particle Acceleration doesn't always give an Accelerator stack.

    I'm a feel player, so I don't bother looking at the buff line, or finagling the UI to put the buffs front and center. So, when I have to get a buff, to get a second buff, and 3 stacks of the second buff to get a third buff, then not always getting the first buff is frustrating and jarring, especially when not getting the first buff also keeps you from functionally using the second ability.

    PA, Unified... whoops, nope
    PA, Uni.... whoops, nope
    PA, Unified Theory. Great! That's one.
    PA, Uni... whoops, nope
    PA, Unified Theory. Great. That's two.
    PA, Uni... whoops, nope
    PA, Uni... whoops, nope
    PA, Uni... whoops, nope...

    That was frustrating just to write. : )

    Is there any way of increasing the chance (eg stat/buff) of Particle Acceleration to give Accelerator?
    ...Since 2009.
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  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    artmanpwe wrote: »
    I think I nailed down what makes it all so clunky for me: Particle Acceleration does't always give an Accelerator stack.

    Is there any way of increasing the chance (eg stat/buff) of Particle Acceleration give Accelerator?

    According to what I understand from speaking to the creator of them, the chance to gain Accelerator is rolled per attack, so the more targets you encompass in your Particle "Slice" the higher the chance for you to gain a stack of Accelerator.

    I've tried it and I find more success in gaining a stack against 3 Test Dummies than 1 test dummy.
  • crypticbuxomcrypticbuxom Posts: 4,443 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    I don't know. 13 attacks at minimum if you are 100% lucky to get the most out of Particle Smash versus a single Chest Beam? I'll choose Chest Beam spam.
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