Is a tank-healer viable?

cascadence · August 2013

I've been looking around to no avail for an updated answer to this question.

Right now what I have on my mind is have a character that tanks with defiance, in hybrid role (for the +healing) compassion as form. Protector (with bulwark of course for threat generation) and Sentry specs. As of main stat I am not so sure... maybe PRE? or play safe with CON?

I know as of powers I need something that applies easily and constantly CC for high aggro, and some quick CS AoE powers don't hurt either.... and been a healer myself I know that heals draw a monstrous amount of AoE aggro, so I know ill be fine there. Though for this particular spec I am not sure what heals would work the best.

My question is.... would a tank/healer with this spec work? has anyone tried something like this before?

Thanks!

flamingbunnyman · August 2013

I haven't tried it, but I have considered it before.

Since there's a spec tree geared toward combined Tanking/Support (Sentry), I'd imagine that it's at least feasible.

monaahiru · August 2013

If you take Defiance, it can be viable but you can only choose Hybrid or Tank role.
Also, Defiance only scales with CON. If you try to be viable, you have to take enough CON but it will cause your build to not getting enough PRE as a Healer.

If you choose Support Role, you can get

Base Healing increased by 25%
Super Stats increases healing (target 30%)

Those two bonus effects very huge. Not just allies healing but for your own self heal.

Even with Sentinel's Brooch 7, it works only as +29 % Bonus Healing so I think you should go for Support Role.

Aura of Radiant Protection will help you and your teammate with good damage resist bonus.

cascadence · August 2013

monaahiru wrote: »

If you take Defiance, it can be viable but you can only choose Hybrid or Tank role.
Also, Defiance only scales with CON. If you try to be viable, you have to take enough CON but it will cause your build to not getting enough PRE as a Healer.

If you choose Support Role, you can get

Base Healing increased by 25%
Super Stats increases healing (target 30%)

Those two bonus effects very huge. Not just allies healing but for your own self heal.

Even with Sentinel's Brooch 7, it works only as +29 % Bonus Healing so I think you should go for Support Role.

Aura of Radiant Protection will help you and your teammate with good damage resist bonus.

Hmmmm.... interesting. I am more worried about the threat generation than the healing tho, to be honest. I remember Bluhman saying on his guides something about this kind of build is very lacking on the aggro area, so I am afraid that if I go support role ill be battling constantly to get aggro. At least with hybrid and bulwark spec, I can get both +threat and +healing and some extra threat from dmg since Hybrid does more dmg than Tank/Support roles.

One thing you are very right that I totally forgot, CON as a primary is a must due to Defiance scaling on CON... so I am thinking maybe CON/PRE.... and maybe INT or DEX depending on how needy are the powers I choose in the end.

flamingbunnyman · August 2013

Con primary isn't mandatory; you can just gear for a bit extra Con and a bit less of some other stat. That would let you take a different Primary tree if you prefer.

cascadence · August 2013

flamingbunnyman wrote: »

Con primary isn't mandatory; you can just gear for a bit extra Con and a bit less of some other stat. That would let you take a different Primary tree if you prefer.

OooOOooohhh.... because PRE as primary is sort of calling me xD. Selfless ally (your heals on others also heal you)? as a tank? heck yeah. Also the extra crit and defense its nice.... and the obvious boost to healing. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm...... so Defiance CON scaling is not that needy then?

flamingbunnyman · August 2013

You do need it, it's just that the difference between a Primary SS and a Secondary is only 40 points (Before Talents and Gear). So (for example), you just put one less Pre mod in your gear, since you've got the extra from it being your PSS, and one more Con mod in the gear to make up for it being lower.

forrksakesexco · August 2013

Why?
I mean aren't you going to have your hands full enough doing one or the other?
Shrugs, you could make a good healer/dps build then just stick CC and CS on to your attacks but why?
If you can tank well then that alone will keep your colleages alive won't it?

What exactly do you wish to achieve? Tanking through healing? Can happen esp in PUGs but it is not terribly desirable and any real tank is gonna steal aggro away from you if you concentrate on healing.

Lolz... why do your team mates need your healing if you are the tank, answer because you're a crap tank.
What you gonna do if you wanna rez someone (and how did they get killed if you were being a good tank) get a threat wipe?

Sigh I've been drinking - maybe this will make more sense when I'm sober.

flamingbunnyman · August 2013

Well, if he's on a melee-heavy team, no matter how well he tanks, the melee is going to catch AoEs. If he's constantly putting out AoE heals, he'll keep them upright.

Now if the plan is to make a main tank that's the main healer too... Yeah, that's getting a little crazy.

monaahiru · August 2013

One more thinking.
You don't have to take Team-Heal but one Resurrection power as standard Tank build.

For sample, Resurrection Serum (Rank 3) can resurrects a fallen player within 15 feet with +100% health.
This works hell good in most hard missions more then just healer.

cascadence · August 2013

forrksakesexco wrote: »

Why?
I mean aren't you going to have your hands full enough doing one or the other?
Shrugs, you could make a good healer/dps build then just stick CC and CS on to your attacks but why?
If you can tank well then that alone will keep your colleages alive won't it?

What exactly do you wish to achieve? Tanking through healing? Can happen esp in PUGs but it is not terribly desirable and any real tank is gonna steal aggro away from you if you concentrate on healing.

Lolz... why do your team mates need your healing if you are the tank, answer because you're a crap tank.
What you gonna do if you wanna rez someone (and how did they get killed if you were being a good tank) get a threat wipe?

Sigh I've been drinking - maybe this will make more sense when I'm sober.

Yeah the intention is to

A) Being able to heal myself and not depend on a healer to keep myself self sustained

Heal others that get damage (not because of me being a crappy tank, but because they got hit by AoE (Firewing for instance, or Gravitard Force Cascades, etc.) or they didn't "move from the fire" mechanics like Hi Phan fight for example). Those cases where they get damaged, not due me not being able to pick up aggro quick enough... but more of situational damage.

Yeah I am aware that I am not going to be a main healer and tank, thats bonkers, I am aiming for a tank with decent heals to keep himself up and sometimes (if the time allows) keep others as well.

monaahiru wrote: »

One more thinking.
You don't have to take Team-Heal but one Resurrection power as standard Tank build.

For sample, Resurrection Serum (Rank 3) can resurrects a fallen player within 15 feet with +100% health.
This works hell good in most hard missions more then just healer.

Thats quite a good suggestion

... specially with the incoming Cybermind fight that locks out people like Gravitar... in those kind of fights a res is quite needed, and what better a tank to do that since he usually is the last to die (unless he sucks, then he is the first, and the team shortly follows xD)

forrksakesexco · August 2013

Lolz thanx for clarification there - too busy laughing for a bit.
Easy enough methinks...
Palliate is a nice big heal that would affect you or an ally say for example Qwijybo in MI crisis or Doc Destroyer in Resistance (if it ever works so that DD takes damage).

There is no reason a good tank build will not be able to heal others if needs be, perhaps it will not heal as efficiently as say a Seraphim/AORP build healer but you could keep people alive (Sapphire for example) with just a touch or two of Empathic healing.

Most good tank builds will have self heals for obvious reasons, a dodge ish Defiance build with BCR/RR and Conviction will survive most things. Devour Essence is one of the best aggro generators there is, even without Crippling Challenge it will really piss your enemies off. I used this on a squishy shooter in a Destroyer fac run, there were only the two of us and even without CC I got all the aggro. They do not like DE!

If DE is not to your taste (and I don't blame you at all), just make sure you've got at least two self heals an active defence (masterful dodge again). I have personally cleaned out Andrith (solo) on elite with just such a build. Perhaps you could be inspired/learn a little from my recently necro'd thread on the matter.

Solo Andrith build(s)

despairsrequiem · August 2013

I used to have one, it was during my "immortality" experiments, at the time I used Doc, even level 40s had trouble killing him at level 26 due to his healing capabilities, in short you want pre primary and con secondary, along with regen, regen procs your compassion btw, then you go the route of a bubble healer, meaning your specs will be based around bubble strength, this means that even in the event someone manages to hit your hp, you can spam bubbles till you naturally heal, along with having one hell of a conviction, combine this with your typical pve heals (for healers sake) and a circle of primal energy, and you should be safe against anything except knocks. back before they changed what the "energy surge" item did I had a circle of primal D baggery, which made me immune to knocks for the most part and allowed me to see stealth, the second not needed unless you simply enjoyed the occasional joust with your fellow man. Often the thing thats overlooked is very interesting when used in cohesion with an abstract build, in this case the proccing of compassion via regen, and in pve when you use the move I can't remember the name of but you use your own hp to heal five others, its like tapping into a near limitless pool of "energy" since your constantly recovering yourself, especially if you have the heal yourself for healing others spec from pre. - love 28th

monaahiru · August 2013

Just for sample my Healer toon.

With each 4 CON, 2PRE mods and 2 Sentinel's Broach in Legion heal stats gear, it's able to make Healer viable like this.

My SS are CON/PRE/STR now.

flamingbunnyman · August 2013

despairsrequiem wrote: »

regen procs your compassion btw

Wait, what? I thought compassion was only supposed to trigger off healing others?

despairsrequiem · August 2013

nope, any healing period procs compassion as long as your the one responsible for it (so healing drones don't count)

flamingbunnyman · August 2013

I'll have to double check, but I don't think that matches the tool tip.

I really wish the tool tips were more reliable...

despairsrequiem · August 2013

lol weird cause I never read those, I only read the advanced descriptions. then if it sounds semi interesting I try it out in the P house while I'm there - love 28th

secondalk · August 2013

If you have a Radiant Summon, your compassion will also stack from and buff it's healing as well. If you have a power slot and a few advantage points to spare in your build, having one of these out is a welcome addition.

That aside, the concept in itself is very viable. The primary issues to deal with are surviving and holding agro. Healing generates agro plenty, but you will still need to manage your taunts.

If you just want something small to help out, consider Bionic Shielding as it has a brief cast time and a large return - ideal to keep someone alive if they're going down quick.

Alternatively, assuming you have good Int, Illumination + Celestial Conduit works well as it also channels healing + damage. Avoid this without good int+cost reduction, as it's expensive.

Sentinel Aura's healing is also good (also proc Compassion, not sure), and it's numbers are also increased by the bonus healing of Hybrid Role.

Resurrection Serum also has the fastest firing time of the resurrection abilities, which makes it popular.

chaelk · August 2013

well that asnwers some questions I have about my two (one Pre, One Con- support tanks)
I'm currently making tanks who run in Support with compassion, so similar

1 got 8 stacks on compassion but had not healed anyone. No pets nothing,will drones give me bonus too?
Con one has AoRP, Pre one has too but might try that with regen, going on Despairs comments.

The pre one has healed an alert and the Con one has tanked an alert, much to the disgust of the tank 10 levels higher, who failed ot aggro off me.

Just getting sefl heals on the Con one, Pre one is a bit further behind.

the description of compassion- you adopt a martial stance.... copy and paste anyone

ok drones proicess compassion too but ONLY when healing you
the radiant too, processes when it healed me.

secondalk · August 2013

Most healing scales with Pre, and that extra ~30% is not small change. However, you will have to determine where your focus is. Tanking in Hybrid Role with touch-up healing to your party (what my PA tank does, for instance), will make you popular and will get you through most.

Otherwise, it sounds like you want to be a very survivable healer - which is very handy for when tanks simply aren't up to snuff and you need to do it yourself.

Is a tank-healer viable?

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