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Who the hell uses an exploit to get to the end of Harmon Labs alert

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  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,314 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    xeiros wrote: »
    No. Even if you are locked out of the fight, Even if you are way back in the large center room after using the elevator, when Warlord dies, the drop be it an until token or if you're lucky a costume piece/DUC ALWAYS appears wherever your character was when warlord died. The money reward will again ALWAYS be waiting in the same place in the center of warlord's room. You do not miss out on a single reward unless you up and leave the alert before Warlord is defeated. Being locked out does not bar you from the rewards in this alert and it never has.
    If you're still in the first room, and the mobs are still there between you and Warlord's room, I don't see how it's possible for anyone except a speedster to reach the room before that 60-second timer has elapsed.
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  • flyingfinnflyingfinn Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    But the reward is still there waiting. It's all your fault if you can't sneak past the mobs.
    So working as intended.
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  • flamingbunnymanflamingbunnyman Posts: 2,035 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    jonsills wrote: »
    If you're still in the first room, and the mobs are still there between you and Warlord's room, I don't see how it's possible for anyone except a speedster to reach the room before that 60-second timer has elapsed.

    This.

    And should you die while rushing to get your reward, you'll get sent back to the beginning, so it's even less likely to get through. Not everyone has stealth, a tunneling power, or a durable enough build to rush the end.
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  • quasimojo1quasimojo1 Posts: 642 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    xeiros wrote: »
    No. Even if you are locked out of the fight, Even if you are way back in the large center room after using the elevator, when Warlord dies, the drop be it an until token or if you're lucky a costume piece/DUC ALWAYS appears wherever your character was when warlord died. The money reward will again ALWAYS be waiting in the same place in the center of warlord's room. You do not miss out on a single reward unless you up and leave the alert before Warlord is defeated. Being locked out does not bar you from the rewards in this alert and it never has.

    I'm not sure this is true. I know that you have an opportunity to pick up the money reward in the center of Warlord's room. However, I don't believe you are eligible for Warlord's reward (the Until token, costume piece, etc. i.e. "the good stuff") unless you participated in the fight. Someone should verify this to be 100% certain, but on the occasions I saw the "exploit" speedrun, I didn't see any Until token or related reward.
    LTS since 2009. Author of ACT parser module for CO. Founder of Rampagers. Resident curmudgeon.

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  • stoopidmestoopidme Posts: 246 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    I was recently on one of these teams and was unable to use the exploit and was thus left behind. I think the reaction of the people in this thread is pretty OTT, the group I was with was very polite about the whole thing and I do not believe they should be punished for exploiting a developer's mistake.

    The exploit should be fixed, but that should be the end of the matter.
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  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    stoopidme wrote: »
    I was recently on one of these teams and was unable to use the exploit and was thus left behind. I think the reaction of the people in this thread is pretty OTT, the group I was with was very polite about the whole thing and I do not believe they should be punished for exploiting a developer's mistake.

    The exploit should be fixed, but that should be the end of the matter.

    Exploit should be fixed and exploiters banned. Then it would be the end of the matter.
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  • cgta1967cgta1967 Posts: 86 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    tar and feathered first...then banned....

    perhaps after a spanking as well.
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  • alexofspades#2085 alexofspades Posts: 287 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    I think their characters should be used as pinatas in Ren-Cen, and you can attack them freely just like you can attack the powerhouse dummies. Oh and they explode in Drifter Salvage.
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  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    cgta1967 wrote: »
    tar and feathered first...then banned....

    perhaps after a spanking as well.

    LOL I like the way you think.
    nepht_siggy_v6_by_nepht-dbbz19n.jpg
    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
    I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
  • xen0biaxen0bia Posts: 140 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    xeiros wrote: »
    No. Even if you are locked out of the fight, Even if you are way back in the large center room after using the elevator, when Warlord dies, the drop be it an until token or if you're lucky a costume piece/DUC ALWAYS appears wherever your character was when warlord died. The money reward will again ALWAYS be waiting in the same place in the center of warlord's room. You do not miss out on a single reward unless you up and leave the alert before Warlord is defeated. Being locked out does not bar you from the rewards in this alert and it never has.

    Sure, you are correct, the reward is there waiting to be picked up... Just a slight detail though; it's very minor and I can see why you would forget about it. *clears throat* ... PEOPLE ONLY HAVE 60 SECONDS TO GET TO THE LAST ROOM, SOMETHING THEY CAN'T DO IF THEY NEED TO CLEAR EVERY FREAKIN' MOBS LEFT UNTOUCHED BY THE SPEEDRUNNERS.

    How dense do you have to be, seriously...
  • crypticbuxomcrypticbuxom Posts: 4,443 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    There's a way to avoid the time limit. Make sure you have the option to choose what instance # you go to and just click cancel every time the window pops up. The counter will reset.
    nepht wrote: »
    Exploit should be fixed and exploiters banned. Then it would be the end of the matter.

    Why ban when the problem is fixed and it didn't really hurt anyone or if damage is undone?
  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,314 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    There's a way to avoid the time limit. Make sure you have the option to choose what instance # you go to and just click cancel every time the window pops up. The counter will reset.
    Yeah, that's easy enough to do while being bounced around by Argent's magic super-kick shotguns and grenades...

    As observed before, not everyone is specced to tank and/or speed. Or are you asserting that unless someone is both Level 40 and properly specced and equipped, one should not run this Alert at all?
    "Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"

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  • crypticbuxomcrypticbuxom Posts: 4,443 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    jonsills wrote: »
    Or are you asserting that unless someone is both Level 40 and properly specced and equipped, one should not run this Alert at all?

    I'm asserting that when you turn the option on to choose what instance number you go to, that you can prevent auto-boot.
  • smoochansmoochan Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    [...]
    Why ban when the problem is fixed and it didn't really hurt anyone or if damage is undone?

    Because exploiters will exploit again.

    Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
  • crypticbuxomcrypticbuxom Posts: 4,443 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Then fix the new exploit. That's what you do when you run a game.
  • quasimojo1quasimojo1 Posts: 642 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    xeiros wrote: »
    No. Even if you are locked out of the fight, Even if you are way back in the large center room after using the elevator, when Warlord dies, the drop be it an until token or if you're lucky a costume piece/DUC ALWAYS appears wherever your character was when warlord died. The money reward will again ALWAYS be waiting in the same place in the center of warlord's room. You do not miss out on a single reward unless you up and leave the alert before Warlord is defeated. Being locked out does not bar you from the rewards in this alert and it never has.

    I was just able to definitively confirm that this is false, as I happened to be in an alert group where @Xeiros took advantage of the elevator exploit. You don't get a Warlord loot drop unless you are able to participate in the final Warlord fight.
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  • crosschancrosschan Posts: 920 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    nepht wrote: »
    There is no argument for U_U

    From the ToS. http://www.perfectworld.com/about/terms

    You Cannot.

    (h) Impede or disrupt the Service or the normal flow of game play or dialogue in the game or in Interactive Areas on the Site or use vulgar language, abusiveness, use of excessive shouting (ALL CAPS) "spamming" or any other disruptive or detrimental methods in an attempt to disturb other users or PWE employees;
    (i) Engage in, encourage, or promote any illegal activity, or any activity that violates these Terms or the Rules of Conduct;
    (j) Engage in any actions that defraud or attempt to defraud, scam or cheat others out of any items that have been earned through authorized game play;

    Purposely locking out players out of the Warlord Fight is against ToS. Even making an argument for this type of speedrun is against TOS :P

    I look forward to your counter argument U_U
    I'll play a hand of the counter game...just because I'm bored at the moment.

    So, after reading this bit it does beg the question, are we supposed to report LvL 6 deadweights because they are disrupting the normal flow of gameplay by not being able to contribute to alert style content? if a legit(no exploits) "speedrun"(aka "Blitzing") is indeed against the TOS then what about the opposite?

    It's something to ponder, isn't it? :wink:
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  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    crosschan wrote: »
    I'll play a hand of the counter game...just because I'm bored at the moment.

    So, after reading this bit it does beg the question, are we supposed to report LvL 6 deadweights because they are disrupting the normal flow of gameplay by not being able to contribute to alert style content? if a legit(no exploits) "speedrun"(aka "Blitzing") is indeed against the TOS then what about the opposite?

    It's something to ponder, isn't it? :wink:

    MOTHER OF ZOD!. You just proved lowbies in alerts are breaking the rules and should be banned.

    Awesome.
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    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
    I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,314 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    No, losing because someone else isn't carrying their weight is a normal part of gameplay.

    And life.
    "Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"

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  • smoochansmoochan Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    crosschan wrote: »
    I'll play a hand of the counter game...just because I'm bored at the moment.

    So, after reading this bit it does beg the question, are we supposed to report LvL 6 deadweights because they are disrupting the normal flow of gameplay by not being able to contribute to alert style content? if a legit(no exploits) "speedrun"(aka "Blitzing") is indeed against the TOS then what about the opposite?

    It's something to ponder, isn't it? :wink:

    No, because those lvl 6s aren't taking advantage of any sort of exploit to get into the alert. It would be akin to entrapment to fully and openly invite lvl 6 players into Alerts the way the game does, and then punish them for accepting that invitiation.

    On the other hand, players who just stand there and don't participate, no matter what their level is, might very well be another story... if you can prove that they didn't have a legitimate reason to go afk. Would hate to see people getting banned because they didn't take that extra second to leave the alert when their kid just walked into a room with a massive gash on their hand because they tried to peel an orange with a steak knife.

    You might have a solid case against a player who joins an alert, moves around visibly during most of the alert, but doesn't contribute or just uses their energy builder. However, as long as players are invited to join alerts the second they get out of the tutorial, there's no basis for banning low levels for joining alerts.

    There, it was pondered. Wink.

    If you wanted to start banning people every time you fail an alert, then the only people still playing would be the ones lucky enough to always end up in alerts with me. /hero

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  • lawblacklawblack Posts: 79 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    xeiros wrote: »
    No. Even if you are locked out of the fight, Even if you are way back in the large center room after using the elevator, when Warlord dies, the drop be it an until token or if you're lucky a costume piece/DUC ALWAYS appears wherever your character was when warlord died. The money reward will again ALWAYS be waiting in the same place in the center of warlord's room. You do not miss out on a single reward unless you up and leave the alert before Warlord is defeated. Being locked out does not bar you from the rewards in this alert and it never has.
    Never say never, you're totally wrong. I have recently been shut out of the place (fight started before I arrived there) and when it was finished, no rewards for me, none at the place my char was standing, nor at the center of the place. I "argued" with one of the runners, he told me that once he was outside and did get the reward. What he said. I don't know the details, though, maybe he was able to enter once then was defeat and recovered. Wasn't my case.
    There's a way to avoid the time limit. Make sure you have the option to choose what instance # you go to and just click cancel every time the window pops up. The counter will reset.
    This. Even if it's not made for that, it's the only mean to stay in an Alert against the clock. Can be useful, though one shouldn't have to use that to gain his share of the meat.
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  • werx138werx138 Posts: 28 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    With all this talk about lvl 6's "disrupting the normal flow of gameplay by not being able to contribute to alert style content", am I missing a trick for getting into Alerts at lower levels?

    I can't get into the Grab Alerts until I'm lvl 10 and Harmon Labs isn't accessible to me until I reach lvl 20.
  • avianosavianos Posts: 5,695 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    werx138 wrote: »
    With all this talk about lvl 6's "disrupting the normal flow of gameplay by not being able to contribute to alert style content", am I missing a trick for getting into Alerts at lower levels?

    I can't get into the Grab Alerts until I'm lvl 10 and Harmon Labs isn't accessible to me until I reach lvl 20.

    There is no Trick, that was a Discussion about the Broken Queue System Pre-LVL-Gate

    Before the Level-Gate on Alerts update, all alerts were accessible from lvl 6, a major flaw since lvl 6 people were able to join alerts that they WEREN'T suppose to be and they were as good as dead in Warlord, Fury of the Dragon, Cybermind, Malvan Colosseum

    The Exploit that Teleports instantly people from the First Room to Warlord Room is STILL Relevant through, they haven't fixed it :|
    How do they do that? No idea

    and to quote from the recent Thread that brough back this Discussion
    selphea wrote: »
    It's not travel power abuse, it's something else - note how one character disappears into the door at the start of the video here, and when I pan the video around another character is also missing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Zu90di9eVQ

    My guess is that they are using a memory editor like CheatEngine or OllyDBG to flip the elevator button's state from "unusable" to "usable"

    Note: I'm sharing this because I reported this but nothing was done so I assume this is a legit action that players are allowed to do and no exploits or exploiters are being shown here.
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  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Harmon is not even there during that alert.

    Haha the OP made the same mistake I did ages ago. I raged so hard about the alert being exploited I got Resistance mixed up with Warlord.

    Yeah exploiters ruin most things these days.
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    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
    I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    nepht wrote: »
    Haha the OP made the same mistake I did ages ago. I raged so hard about the alert being exploited I got Resistance mixed up with Warlord.

    Yeah exploiters ruin most things these days.

    Yes. The OP also made that mistake ages ago. hint hint.
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