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Need build help, HW/Earth/wittle bit o' fire
newberl337
Posts: 6 Arc User
So, when it comes to CO builds I'm a little lost only because I find them rather intense. One should have a clear idea as to what s/he is going for when it comes to the build. Do you want to tank, heal, dps? Do you want to dodge a lot? Do you want more AoE or single target damage? etc. etc.
So I have been dinking around with a HW/Earth build and I just know it is not nearly as effective as it could be. So I am wondering if any of the build masters he wouldn't mind taking a stab at these power sets and seeing what they can come up with?
I am going for a tanky build with a focus on AoE. I mentioned a little fire in the title only because it would fit concept well, but as it stands I only use fire shield, so, whatever.
Anyways, thoughts?
Post edited by newberl337 on
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A good build should have 1 aoe, 1 spike attack, a decent damage mitigation (dodge+resist), 1 self-heal and the role has little importance in these choices. Not in the sense that it means nothing but every build should be able to self-heal and deal some damages.
Even when someone chooses Support to play a healer, she still wants 1 aoe, 1 spike attack and a decent damage mitigation.
A role matters more about the kind of buffs you need on your char.
Do you need heal buff? Then support is for you.
Do you need threat buff? Then tank
etc...
Don't get me wrong as I'm not saying that concept doesn't matter but personally I don't really lack of imagination to add a concept/rp to a Tank or a Support, etc...so I don't limit it to one specific role.
One example : Hybrid with Bulwark from Protector Tree can be really good to build a tank (while it's Hybrid role).
The second point to look carefully into is the energy management.
HW set has some really nice powers but can require a lot of energy.
Enrage can be a good choice or a MA form (either Form of the Tempest if you crit, or Form of the Tiger if you've a lot of charging melee attacks).
Then there would be some "sacrifices" to keep a good synergy between your powers.
Example : MA form works with DEX so it's highly recommended to have DEX as one of your SuperStat.
After all this, it's up to you on how you want to build all that.
You should have enough choices between powers to build your concept following these guidelines.
- Do you want Tank role to build a tank, ie aggro management? Then you'll have to look into Crippling Challenge and Challenging Strikes to taunt the targets.
- Do you mean tanky as good damage mitigation? Then you'll have to mix some dodge with some damage resistance.
- HW and Earth can have a good synergy if you've STR as one of your SS.
- CON is often highly recommended for a tank as you want enough hp to handle the hugesome spike attacks from legendary/cosmic bosses.
I definitely, without a doubt will CON as SS. I know we technically get 3, but that tertiary isn't as big as the first two. The thing I am tossing about is that second SS being STR or something that benefits the abundance of ranged stuff happening in Earth. HW has some ranged in there and melee. Earth has some melee but a lot is ranged, so trying to find the happy medium there is challenging.
I love enraged, a lot. I want to still go with that. In your suggestion you say that a good build needs to have 1 aoe, 1 spike, decent mitigation and a self heal. Well between earth and HW I am going to have a ton of AOE, as a tank I prefer that. I'm not sure what exactly a spike attack is... a heavy single target damage power? Damage mitigation is where I tend to get both indecisive and confused. There's a lot of options out there and I never know what's good and I do mean tanky as in aggro management, I want the mobs to attack me and I want to be able to take it, whilst AoE's for all of them.
And for the roles thing, you kind of confused me. I would probably prefer to be in a tank role... I don't know what other role I would be in if that's what I want to do.
As far as powers go, I am mainly built around Cleave spam. It pretty much does everything all in one, single target, aoe, taunt. I also use Arc of Ruin with advantage for debuffing first against harder mobs, and Fissure for a ranged fire and forget AoE that lets me do stuff while it's going off and it can be specced to heal when standing in it, which pairs with the stone shield from Earth. However, I chose Parry with Elusive Monk to stack dodge/avoidance for a layered defense on mine, since I already have Regen. Right now I am HW heavy, but I'll probably end up changing out my charge for the Earth one and maybe even my energy builder for more a more thematic look. I also have Aggressor and Enrage with Endorphin Rush. I'm in the low 20s atm, and I'm easily pulling multiple groups, training them to a spot and wiping them out with ease.
As far as what's to come, I'll be taking a couple active defensives (most likely MD and Resurg), another active offense (most likely ES with adv), probably MSA (seems to be the only one that fits) too for energy and a single target burst move if I have room, as I think all my other bases are covered and that's the least important as a tank.
Yes, by spike attack I mean a heavy single target damage power.
You need this to deal enough damages on a boss and therefore to generate enough threat to keep the aggro on you.
It's ok if my opinion on roles didn't spoke to you.
You know what you want and that's what matters.
Enrage with Endorphine Rush works very well with Defiance which is a very good tank passive.
Your SuperStats would be STR/CON, if you can then pick DEX and Parry with Elusive Monk so you can get some dodge and avoidance combined with Defiance.
The other option might be PRE as 3rd SS, it will boost your CC resistance - which is always a good thing for a tank - and your own CC strength (Brute Strike, for example).
Be careful that ranged knocks are buffed with EGO. I've noticed that Earth Splitter's knockup is increased by EGO rather than STR.
The choice of your 3rd SS is going to depend on which powers you'll choose.
- Brute Strike, Conviction, ...? Then PRE might be a good choice.
- Earth Splitter, Fault Line, Fissure, ...? Then EGO might be a good choice.
- more damage mitigation with some dodge and avoidance? Then DEX with Parry+Elusive Monk.
Arc of Ruin and Eruption work very well together (aoe+single target attack).
So what other mitigation options are there other than dodge? Because I do like the healing spec option for fissure working with stone shield.
Now LordofScorn, you really feel like that many passives are that necessary? I mean at the end of the day, a level 40 should have how many actual powers vs. Passives, buffs, debuffs, heals, whatever else.?
- damage resistance, which reduces the incoming damages but some mobs and bosses know to reduce/ignore it (the VIPER brickbusters, for example).
- damage reduction - a.k.a. shield or bubble as usually, the powers which apply a shield often surround your char with a bubble - absorbs a part of the damages after the damage resistance.
- avoidance, which reduces the incoming damage after a successful dodge. N.B. : while it is possible to reduce/ignore a character's damage resistance, nothing can reduce/ignore avoidance. This is why it's often recommended to have some dodge/avoidance in a tank's damage mitigation.
If you can have some of these 3 layers, you've all the different ways to reduce incoming damages.
But it is also possible to skip over one of these layers if you get 2 heal powers (usually Conviction as it's a clickie with a short cooldown).
Fissure can work as a 2nd heal too then I would take Circle of Primal Dominion, this way you'll be sure to stand on Fissure no matter how hard your target tries to knock you.
At lvl 40, the powers you're going to use often are :
- a build-up power (for Enrage, it'll be a knocking power but I don't recommend a knockback power, as a tank you don't really want to throw away the mob you're trying hard to hold aggro on you),
- two Active Defenses (so you can focus on striking your target and generating threat on it),
- an AoE (to get rid off the spawns),
- a lunge (either someone's going to knockback your target or he's going to run away from you and you need to close the distance gap asap),
- a self-heal (as the fight goes on, your hp goes down therefore the self-heal makes sense),
- a spike attack (to deal enough damages and therefore to generate enough threat to keep aggro on you).
You've 14 power but if you count your EB, your Passive, your Form, your Block, your Self-Heal, 2 Active Defenses, your build-up power, your spike attack, your AoE, your lunge, your Energy Unlock, this is already 11/14. Add an alternative build-up power (such as Thunderclap for Enrage) and a 2nd AoE, this is 13/14.
So if you want your tank character to be correctly built, you'll probably don't have more than 3 AoEs... and even only 2 AoEs if you take Circle of Primal Dominion.
Fissure being both ranged AoE and heal, with advantage, it might allow you to have a third AoE.
It's recommended to have at least one Active Defense, even for dpsers. Then a tank often has 2 ADs to rotate between them and to soak the damages more safely.
I'm no expert at this game, but I do try to make well balanced characters. I think Hollow pretty much answered it already, but the character build/theme you are going for will always play some part as well. In my case, I was trying to go for a super passive healing approach, hence the layered passive heals on top of Regen. Layering defenses is always a good thing for survival in any case.
Active Defensives and Offensives are those that have the long cooldowns and give substantial buffs for a duration. They invoke a 30 sec cooldown with each other, so if you have 2 in a build, you can rotate them and have one up every 30 seconds. As a tank, having one available at any given time is a bonus.
As far as attacks vs. buffs, debuffs, etc. go. It really just depends on your build and focus. In most cases, you can steamroll through most stuff with just one attack, so picking up other situational attacks, attacks you can stack with your other attack or debuff/buff you in some way is the safest approach I think. Just make sure you aren't picking redundant attacks and that they mesh and play nice with one another.
Using my build as an example, I decided to main focus around Cleave. It is full ranked and has Challenging Strikes. It works well for single and aoe situations for consistent damage. So, for my next picks, I looked into what can improve this. Arc of Ruin is a charged AoE attack, so it does minor spike damage at full charge, but it's main use is taking the advantage and getting two debuffs out of it. This makes my main attack better. Next up I took Fissure, because I felt the need to have some sort of ranged attack and minor CC, plus it stacks Enrage on the knockdowns and adds a small passive heal with advantage. While it does have an annoying stand still cast time, it does allow me to do other things after it's cast, which lets me pile it on targets and then go into my main attack rotation. I am still missing a large single target spike attack in my build, but I will probably pick one up down the line. It largely isn't needed for me at the moment, as I'm not at end game where it's more likely to be needed for aggro grabbing.
I agree with Hollow on pretty much everything. The key to a good build is having balance.
I guess my fear was that at the end of the day, with all the thing suggested I'd be pretty much using only 2 attack powers and I feel like it would be really boring playing that way. Anyways, I'll be back in a few.
EDIT: I should mention, that right now my biggest obstacle is choosing active defense/offense. I know a tank should have 2. But I really like Resurgence AND Enrage. Thematically they make sense, the other active defenses, not so much. In fact, they kind of break it.
As far as active defenses go I always take Resurgence (or Field Surge if I'm using PFF), and Masterful Dodge. Masterful Dodge doesn't have any animations or visual effects, so basically it's just a button you press to not die. Which it sadly does better than Unbreakable since attacking breaks Unbreakable. Go figure. :rolleyes:
Lately I've been taking Lock n' Load as an active offense, with either R2 or Two Smoking Barrels depending on whether I'm using ranged or melee. It's probably not as good as Ego Surge, but I really like it. Lock n' Load is also another power with no sound effects or visuals, so it's never theme breaking.
You can't really go wrong with your Active Offense choice though. Pretty much the only ones that I never use are Aggressor and Intensity, and that's only because the other ones are usually better.
That Dork In The Suspenders, signing out.
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Maybe it'll help you to see clearer what we mean behind our explanations :
-Superstats :
CON+STR/INT.
Why these choices?
CON tree is going to provide you with all the tankiness you need.
STR is going to buff your physical melee and your knock resist (yes, trust me that at high level you want a strong knock resist).
INT is going to reduce the cooldowns on your Active Defenses but also on other powers like your lunge or Thunderclap (which I recommend for a Defiance/Enrage build).
-Slotted Passive :
Defiance.
You've a good damage resistance and you get energy when you're hit (which happens rather often for a tank).
-Form :
Enrage Rank 2 w/ Endorphine Rush.
I would suggest Enrage rank 2 as it'll allow you to start a fight with a decent damage buff (2 stacks of Enraged).
N.B. : do not confond Enrage -the form- with Enraged -the stackable damage buff.
-Active Defenses :
Resurgence w/ Evanescent Emergence :
The heal from Resurgence scales with CON, which is your primary superstat so Resurgence is going to restore a lot of hp when you need it.
I would take the advantage, if possible, as it'll help you to maintain or apply your stacks of Enraged.
Masterful Dodge :
Even with no Dodge mitigation, this AD is a must-have for its DoT resistance.
-Energy Unlock :
Molecular Self-Assembly, it scales with INT and there's great chance you'll have some powers with cooldown (Fissure, Void Shift, Thunderclap,...).
-Lunge :
Void Shift w/ Emerging Nightmares is often recommended as it applies Fear to 5 targets around you.
Then for your attacks, I would look into :
- Arc of Ruin w/ No Quarter.
One tap of AoR allows you to apply a -10% damage resist (from No Quarter) and a full charge adds a disorient debuff on your target.
- Eruption :
It is a really good attack too as it deals more damages against ennemies immune to knock, deals more damages against disoriented ennemies and you can get CC with it. So I would go with Eruption rank 2 w/ CC... or if you want your fire theme, you can choose Magma Burst advantage.
- Thunderclap :
This power helps you to build up your stacks of Enraged.
N.B. : Enrage requires you to knock your target but after 3 knocks, your ennemy becomes immune to knock and therefore making it impossible to get your full stacks of Enraged with knock powers only.
Which is why you want/need a power like Thunderclap to be still able to build up your stacks of Enraged even if your targets got the temporary immunity to knock.
- Stone Shot+Cave In :
You want some Earth powers in your char, I would look into these ones.
Stagger isn't a big damage debuff but it applies a good move speed reduction.
Stone Shot+Cave In w/ Aggressive Gravitation is going to help to build up your stacks of Enraged while dealing damages and slowing your target.
-Fissure+Circle of Primal Dominion :
Fissure advantage (Reconstruct) is really cool and useful but as you'll lvl up you'll see that mobs know how to knock/repel you away even with STR for SS, so Circle of Primal Dominion is going to help you to remain on your Fissure.
Your block should be Stone Shroud to synergy with Fissure... but it's up to you. The other recommended blocks are : TK Shield w/ TK Reinforcement, Ebon Void w/ Voracious Darkness, Energy Shield w/ Laser Knight, Parry w/ Elusive Monk.
At the end, it'll depend mainly on how many advantage points you can spend in your block power.
All of this is a non-exhaustive list, just to put some real examples behind the explanations.
Feel free to test and try in the Powerhouse Battlestation, mix and match to fit your likings, have fun and tell us if you've any other questions.
I went with CON/STR then Recovery
Defiance for the passive
Enrage w/ Endorphin rush
I also had Resurgence with Evanescent Emergence
Molecular Self-Assembly for the Energy Unlock
Did not use void shift though. I used Decimate.
Now for the powers part...
I did have Stone Shot+Cave In
I did have Fissure with Circle of Primal Dominon
But then I also had cleave as one of the AoEs.
I'm 35 so still have couple more powers I can take. But really aside from the tertiary SS, my lunge our builds are very similar. I was going to take Arc of Ruin and Eruption by the time I hit 40, so really I have Cleave you have Thunderclap.