AoRP Tanking

flamingbunnyman · July 2013

I'm looking at making a paladin-themed Hybrid role tank using Aura of Radiant Protection. I've never used AoRP before, and my usual reference - Mecha Teddy's scaling guide - has incomplete information on Auras, so I need some help.

How high can the Damage Resistance be pushed? With reasonably high Super Stats, can the Hybrid self buff compare favorably with Defiance or Invulnerability?

Would it be worthwhile to pick up IDF?

What Super Stats are going to be most helpful? I'm thinking of some combination of Con (HP for tanking, obviously), Dex (crits, for both attacks and heals) and Pre (for heals and the team portion of AoRP).

I'm a little concerned about energy management. I hate having to use my energy builder, so I usually build in such a way that I rarely, if ever, have to use it. I can't see a way to do that here.

I'm not sure which PSS and Sec trees would benefit me most. I'm used to tanking, but adding the support portion to the build is throwing me off.

I don't have a build to post yet, I'm still trying to work some things out. I'll add one later, once I've got a better idea where I'm going with it.

jonesing4 · July 2013

What kind of attacks were you looking to use? With 'paladin' I assume HW, but I'm just curious.

As far as Energy management and SS choices, I usually get by just fine with crits by gearing for them and ignoring DEX. Yeah, you won't be able to get to 45% chance or anything, but it's very easy to get it to 30% or more, which should be sufficient for a tank. So maybe go with CON/PRE/INT or REC, then gear for crits.

Sadly, I can't help with the scaling questions, my AoRP guy is only 15. I don't see any reason why it shouldn't work, though. Won't be as capable as an Invuln/LR tank, but those are overkill for 90% of the content.

flamingbunnyman · July 2013

jonesing4 wrote: »

What kind of attacks were you looking to use? With 'paladin' I assume HW, but I'm just curious.

I'm taking a bit of a modernized slant, so I'm planning on using Heavy Weapons plus a little Munitions. Possibly a couple extras from the Mystic frameworks - I like Lifedrain with Vampiric Sympathy (which is part of why I'm worried about energy. That power is expensive). If I've got room in the build, I'll probably squeeze in a pet power or two.

As far as Energy management and SS choices, I usually get by just fine with crits by gearing for them and ignoring DEX. Yeah, you won't be able to get to 45% chance or anything, but it's very easy to get it to 30% or more, which should be sufficient for a tank. So maybe go with CON/PRE/INT or REC, then gear for crits.

Good point, and the character is already 40 and has a ton of SCR and mods, so getting and slotting Heroic gear is no problem. I could gear for Cost Reduction too, instead of the Cooldown I usually go for.

Edit: Looking through the Con tree, I see the other reason I was looking at Dex as a Super Stat - the Deflection stat, which adds Dodge based on Dex.

Looking at the Sentinel tree, I have questions about two specs there:
-Rejuvenated: Your Active Heal over Time (HoT) ticks have a X% chance to grant you 5 Energy. This effect can only occur once every 2 seconds.
What counts as "my Active HoT"? One on me? One I applied? Something else?
Will Sentinel Aura trigger it? What about Eternal Spring?
Does the energy gain scale with anything, or is it a fixed amount?

-Genesis: Reduces the Energy Cost of your Heals, Shields, Confuses, Incapacitates, Paralyzes, and Placates by X%.
Does that include attacks that heal, like Lifedrain and Devour Essence?

theravenforce · July 2013

flamingbunnyman wrote: »

Looking at the Sentinel tree, I have questions about two specs there:
-Rejuvenated: Your Active Heal over Time (HoT) ticks have a X% chance to grant you 5 Energy. This effect can only occur once every 2 seconds.
What counts as "my Active HoT"?One on me? One I applied? Something else?

Things like Bountiful Chi Resurgence.

flamingbunnyman wrote: »

Will Sentinel Aura trigger it? What about Eternal Spring?
Does the energy gain scale with anything, or is it a fixed amount?

Sentinel Aura does NOT trigger Rejuvenated, this was removed when Sentinel Aura was nerfed by 70%.

I believe amount of energy gained is a set amount.

flamingbunnyman wrote: »

-Genesis: Reduces the Energy Cost of your Heals, Shields, Confuses, Incapacitates, Paralyzes, and Placates by X%.
Does that include attacks that heal, like Lifedrain and Devour Essence?

I don't think it does since the primary mechanic of Devour Essence and Life Drain (argueably) seems to be damage.

You can test this however.

Remove all gear and take Lifedrain, check tooltip with Genesis and without Genesis spec, specced for and compare cost numbers.

Are you looking to provide good AoRP for others as well? Or just self?

If self continue what you are doing with your stats, AoRP is a fantastic passive, one of my favourites.

If self and others you may want to invest in PRE stat as that is what AoRP's buff other mechanic scales on.

AoRP as a passive however (self portion) scales with role and super stats.

In Hybrid Role the self portion will be vastly larger than the buff other portion.

In Support Role the self portion will be lower than the buff other portion.

theravenforce · July 2013

flamingbunnyman wrote: »

How high can the Damage Resistance be pushed? With reasonably high Super Stats, can the Hybrid self buff compare favorably with Defiance or Invulnerability?

Personally I have gotten up to 111% Damage resistance buff to self in Hybrid Role, with high super stats. (This was a test toon of mine , not an actual toon of mine in my LIVE roster)

I mainly use AoRP on my support toons to push their buff other values to be higher than self.

Currently Techna Ology my tech pet build has an AoRP which grants 90% damage resistance to all foes in a 50ft radius.

I'd say AoRP is comparable to Invulnerability and Defiance (x6) and perhaps on par with it, if paired with IDF or pushed high enough.

flamingbunnyman wrote: »

Would it be worthwhile to pick up IDF?

Hmm, yes and no, if you are using stats which don't have any form scaling it would be best to use IDF especially on an AoRP build, it will for all intents and purposes BE Invuln (with perhaps a lower absorb number from IDF vs Invuln's)

flamingbunnyman wrote: »

What Super Stats are going to be most helpful? I'm thinking of some combination of Con (HP for tanking, obviously), Dex (crits, for both attacks and heals) and Pre (for heals and the team portion of AoRP).

In hybrid Role, you shouldn't really have to worry that much about healing or team support with AoRP. Your buff other portion will be inherently low anyway, since the Aura's change, Support Role toons have the higher buff other value.

CON/DEX/INT = HP + Survival/Criticals and Severity Damage/Cost and Energy Management

Hybrid Role super stats all grant bonus healing so healing will be covered pretty much.

flamingbunnyman wrote: »

I'm a little concerned about energy management. I hate having to use my energy builder, so I usually build in such a way that I rarely, if ever, have to use it. I can't see a way to do that here.

INT + MSA + lunge + quick recharge heals like Conviction are your friends

flamingbunnyman wrote: »

I'm not sure which PSS and Sec trees would benefit me most. I'm used to tanking, but adding the support portion to the build is throwing me off.

CON + Protector + Warden or Vindicator + Con Spec I'd wager.

flamingbunnyman wrote: »

I don't have a build to post yet, I'm still trying to work some things out. I'll add one later, once I've got a better idea where I'm going with it.

Best of luck with your build :biggrin:

I hope I was helpful ^^

carrionbaggage · July 2013

Just to add my 2 cents...

I'd probably go CON/INT/PRE. Presence is superstatted to give allies a bit of a resist boost, because there's not much point in using AoRP purely for self-protection. The numbers would work, but I would rather just take Defiance or Invuln.

CON/INT/PRE with Compassion, Sentinel/Protector trees, and any of the three masteries. I have a tank that uses Brute Strike to proc Sentinel Mastery. It works quite well.

You could throw in Conviction, BCR, a lunge, and/or Eruption (the power, not the device) to proc MSA.

The downside to all that would be low crit severity and low additive damage bonus. You could rectify at least some of that by cycling active offenses throughout combat, if you can free up the power picks to squeeze them into the build.

If you're using Munitions for your main attack powers, you could opt instead for Concentration with Protector/Guardian.

Sounds like a tough problem for an interesting character.

-Genesis: Reduces the Energy Cost of your Heals, Shields, Confuses, Incapacitates, Paralyzes, and Placates by X%.
Does that include attacks that heal, like Lifedrain and Devour Essence?

Yes, Genesis does reduce the cost of both Lifedrain and Devour Essence.

falchoin · July 2013

Link to this build: http://powerhouse.nullware.com/powerhouse.html?v=6&n=&d=1146BBDSETY6310G000G10JG209O403GC04J5037G00AI00KA05K8048F008I0L9D04J6003bCR3V703SXU

Super Stats:
Level 6: Strength (Primary)
Level 10: Intelligence (Secondary)
Level 15: Presence (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: Mechanized
Level 6: Body and Mind
Level 9: Impressive Physique
Level 12: Diplomatic
Level 15: Relentless
Level 18: Negotiator
Level 21: Lasting Impression

Powers:
Level 1: Bludgeon
Level 1: Cleave (Rank 2, Rank 3, Challenging Strikes)
Level 6: Eruption (Rank 2, Crippling Challenge)
Level 8: Aura of Radiant Protection (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Enrage (Endorphin Rush)
Level 14: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Molecular Self-Assembly
Level 20: Masterful Dodge
Level 23: Lifedrain (Rank 2, Vampiric Sympathy)
Level 26: Void Shift (Emerging Nightmares)
Level 29: Lock N Load
Level 32: Lead Tempest (Rank 2, Tread Softly, Challenging Strikes)
Level 35: Energy Shield (Laser Knight)
Level 38: Imbue

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Athletics (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Flight

Specializations:
Strength: Swole (3/3)
Strength: Physical Peak (2/3)
Strength: Brutality (2/2)
Strength: Overpower (3/3)
Protector: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Protector: Bulwark (2/2)
Protector: Debilitating Challenge (2/2)
Protector: Resolute (3/3)
Warden: Fortified Gear (2/3)
Warden: Slaughter (3/3)
Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
Mastery: Warden Mastery (1/1)

No CON so you probably won't be surviving if you try blocking Gravi's yellow bubbles but the STR spec should help give a small boost to hp. I usually err on the side of dps for my tanks to be sure they keep aggro, then increase survivability as needed.

flamingbunnyman · August 2013

Each reply in this thread has made me throw out part of my build, or try to cram something new in.

I appreciate all the help guys. I still don't have anything that I'm happy enough with to post, but I hope to soon.

Unknown · August 2013

This content has been removed.

flamingbunnyman · August 2013

I finally installed Test and played around with it a bit. With nothing but AoRP and Heirloom gear, I got 80%. Unless there's a hard cap or serious diminishing returns, it shouldn't be too hard to push it higher.

Edit: AoRP + PSS Con 319, SSS Int 178 and Pre 185 via talents and Heirloom gear = 88% self Damage Resistance in Hybrid mode.

theravenforce · August 2013

gradii wrote: »

what rank mods u using ravenforce? AoRP never gives me more than 80%

flamingbunnyman wrote: »

I finally installed Test and played around with it a bit. With nothing but AoRP and Heirloom gear, I got 80%. Unless there's a hard cap or serious diminishing returns, it shouldn't be too hard to push it higher.

Edit: AoRP + PSS Con 319, SSS Int 178 and Pre 185 via talents and Heirloom gear = 88% self Damage Resistance in Hybrid mode.

Please note:

Techna Ology grants 91% to OTHERS in Support role and about 66% to self in Support Role

But in Hybrid Role I get 99-100% to self and about 45-46% to other.

AoRP is fun to push up, what I lack in personal damage my hungry and armed to the teeth pets make up for me

I personally pay people back by granting high damage resistance to them in teams.

When I get back to the UK, I'll check Techna to see if I can push it higher.

iceih03 · August 2013

theravenforce wrote: »

Please note:

Techna Ology grants 91% to OTHERS in Support role and about 66% to self in Support Role

But in Hybrid Role I get 99-100% to self and about 45-46% to other.

AoRP is fun to push up, what I lack in personal damage my hungry and armed to the teeth pets make up for me

I personally pay people back by granting high damage resistance to them in teams.

When I get back to the UK, I'll check Techna to see if I can push it higher.

Are you sure it is not the opposite 91% to yourself and 100% to others?
My main is Pre and I am around those numbers just the opposite.

l1ghtstar · August 2013

iirc, 696 Pre equals to 141% dmg resistance to others.

Unknown · August 2013

This content has been removed.

carrionbaggage · August 2013

gradii wrote: »

I never give more than 80% to OTHERS IN support role, even with 400+ pres. seriously what gives?

What are your exact values for PRE and resistance to others?

l1ghtstar · August 2013

Ok, hopefully this will help out. In the following, No specializations or powers were activated, just AoRP at rank 3 and different amounts of Pre.

Hybrid Role
113 Presence: 23% Others
201 Presence: 32% Others
245 Presence: 36% Others
317 Presence: 43% Others
369 Presence: 48% Others
441 Presence: 55% Others
494 Presence: 61% Others
565 Presence: 68% Others
618 Presence: 73% Others
689 Presence: 80% Others

Support Role
113 Presence: 41% Others
201 Presence: 56% Others
245 Presence: 64% Others
317 Presence: 76% Others
369 Presence: 85% Others
441 Presence: 98% Others
494 Presence: 107% Others
565 Presence: 119% Others
618 Presence: 128% Others
689 Presence: 141% Others

Note that the Resistance granted to the user is based on your super stats, so an equivalent of 683 TOTAL supers stats equals to 88% resistance to self in hybrid and 57% resistance to self in support. 790 Total Super Stats produce 98% Self in Hybrid and 63% Self in Support. 835 Total Super Stats equals to 103% Self in Hybrid and 66% Self in Support.

Again, these numbers were produced without the use of any specializations, just stats via gear and talents. Hopefully these numbers serve as a guide to calculate an estimate of resistance to self and others in either role.

theravenforce · August 2013

iceih03 wrote: »

Are you sure it is not the opposite 91% to yourself and 100% to others?
My main is Pre and I am around those numbers just the opposite.

I'm fairly certain on the numbers I have given although, since I am not even in the UK, my values could be much higher than I have stated based on the information from M.o.L in the aforementioned post, but I doubt it.

High AoRP self values come from Hybrid Role. You could be reading the tooltip wrong if you get 91% to others and 100% to self in Hybrid Role, even IF your PRE is through the roof.

Hybrid = Naturally lower ally numbers and higher self portions.

Support = Naturally higher ally numbers and lower self portions.

Besides Invuln and PFF, AoRP is a passive I have managed to tank Gravitar with, I just love it...

AoRP...because you're WORTH it... #FlickHairAndDuckFace :biggrin:

Having said that...when I get back I'll check my values and re post or edit if needed.

ayonachan · August 2013

ayonachan wrote: »

246+304+233(783) gives 94 flat damage reduction from rank 1 Inertial Dampening Field
246+304+233(783) gives 112 flat damage reduction from rank 2 Inertial Dampening Field
246+304+233(783) gives 131 flat damage reduction from rank 3 Inertial Dampening Field
221+588+81(890) gives 96 flat damage reduction from rank 1 Inertial Dampening Field
221+588+81(890) gives 115 flat damage reduction from rank 2 Inertial Dampening Field
221+588+81(890) gives 134 flat damage reduction from rank 3 Inertial Dampening Field

246+304+233(783) gives yourself 53% resistance to all damage and 146 flat damage reduction from rank 1 Invulnerability.
246+304+233(783) gives yourself 63% resistance to all damage and 156 flat damage reduction from rank 2 Invulnerability.
246+304+233(783) gives yourself 76% resistance to all damage and 165 flat damage reduction from rank 3 Invulnerability.
221+588+81(890) gives yourself 56% resistance to all damage and 153 flat damage reduction from rank 1 Invulnerability.
221+588+81(890) gives yourself 67% resistance to all damage and 162 flat damage reduction from rank 2 Invulnerability.
221+588+81(890) gives yourself 81% resistance to all damage and 171 flat damage reduction from rank 3 Invulnerability.
489 Constitution gives yourself 20% Defiance.(120% resistance to all damage for 6-stacks)
489 Beneficial Stat gives yourself 19% main-bonus from your form.

AoRP as an alternative tanking passive is possible but the actual tanking passives require less out of the player and offer more at the same time. You can pretty much give someone Invulnerability while in the support and even hybrid role.

Removed what was already stated by l1gtstar.

l1ghtstar · August 2013

Dear @ayonachan,

From one vet to another, I'd like to give you props on the detailed numbers you give out, like the post above and this post. I use them quite frequently in figuring out stats.

Can you make a single thread with all the values you've found thus far? That'd be awesome, especially if it were to be sticky-ed. I'd vouch for something like that =p

ayonachan · August 2013

I sorta did already make a thread that has pretty much everything that you desire but you have to look past my random bickering and blunt observations laced with ample amounts of my own opinions.

Though I haven't updated it with any "new" information in some time...also some of the information has 'slightly' changed and it isn't organized....But I am very surprised that no one ever brought it back from the abyss that I tossed it down into..

Edit: Alternatively you could just put out a search in the forums for my name. Ignore all the posts where I toss around my opinions and spout off degrading remarks..or not if you truly wish to swallow yet another average post from any random "Οὖτις" (outis aka nobody).

AoRP Tanking

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