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Cryptic Should Make a New Super Hero Game

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  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    clcmercy wrote: »
    NCSoft killed it, not Paragon Studios. They had just announced new content release the week before the shutdown announcement came down the tubes.

    As I recall, the reason given was something along the lines of "the game does not align with our future goals." It's not like CoH wasn't making money, it was on an upswing. Just not /enough/ of an upswing. Corporate greed killed that game, and sad to say...I see this company doing the same things.

    Craptic SOLD the game off. Only after this company did that did the game really start to improve and get better. Many opinions concur on that point. I'd wager that even if this company got out from under Perfect World's umbrella, this game would STILL languish.

    What needs to happen is another sell off, so some REAL development work can get done.

    I'm not sure if you actually played City of Heroes, I myself played it from day one to the day the servers shut. I loved that game but I aint delusional to the facts .

    Things like forcing players to pay twice for Going Rouge, the piss poor free to play model, Ultra Mode that did nothing but add shinys but somehow managed to bork even the greatest of graphics cards, the complete an utter borking of the power bars, the killing of Statesman the list goes on and on and ON.

    Saying Paragon was some sort of super mythical never %&%ing fails studio is balderdash they failed a lot. They only managed the game after the real devs left >_>

    Cryptic went on to make Champions, Star Trek Online and Neverwinter ( both Trek and Neverwinter have been massive successes ) and yes Champions is Cryptics weakest game but its still good and somewhat of a success , as Perfect World has said its making money and 4 years on its still here. If it was to close tomorrow it could still be chalked up as a minor hit.

    Cryptic has made 4 successful fun MMO's . Paragon were in charge when CoX died .

    Yes we all like to call Cryptic CRAPTIC now and then but the fact is they have yet to make a MMO that failed. Paragon didnt even make a game of their own.

    Maybe if Paragon brown nosed NCsoft a bit City might still be here U_U"
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  • silverblade#7050 silverblade Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    nepht wrote: »
    Cryptic has made 4 successful fun MMO's . Paragon were in charge when CoX died .

    Yes we all like to call Cryptic CRAPTIC now and then but the fact is they have yet to make a MMO that failed. Paragon didnt even make a game of their own.

    If successful means, it made a profit, then yeah, Cryptic has a perfect record.

    I agree with you to some extent. I do think Cryptic makes decent games and they are fun for what they are. I just wish they would make more deeper games. CoH had some innovative ideas when it first launched like sidekicking but now it seems Cryptic is interested in only pumping out shallow MMOs to generate a quick profit.

    It's great in a business sense but for the gamer it's a bit disappointing.
  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    If successful means, it made a profit, then yeah, Cryptic has a perfect record.

    I agree with you to some extent. I do think Cryptic makes decent games and they are fun for what they are. I just wish they would make more deeper games. CoH had some innovative ideas when it first launched like sidekicking but now it seems Cryptic is interested in only pumping out shallow MMOs to generate a quick profit.

    It's great in a business sense but for the gamer it's a bit disappointing.

    Yup I will say Champs isnt as good as CoX, Champs is better looking its more fun for the casual player but its a very close second.

    I will agree with anger pac man its 70% Ncsoft faults CoX shut but some of the blame lies with Paragon with some of the wtf u do that moments they had.

    Cryptic has never failed and thats why I would play ANY new game they made.
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  • silverblade#7050 silverblade Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    nepht wrote: »
    Cryptic has never failed and thats why I would play ANY new game they made.

    I used to think like you. I am still a fan of Cryptic but a bit more jaded now after Neverwinter.

    Neverwinter is an incomplete game. It lacks core classes and they could have been more ambitious and said they wanted to explore all of Faerun. Instead we have a small area with only four classes (GWF and GF are the same class to me). And with new paragon paths and classes still many months away, I can't help but feel a bit down.

    Before Neverwinter I would have considered buying any Cryptic game but with PWE at the helms, I don't think I'll be that optimistic anymore.
  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,314 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    If successful means, it made a profit, then yeah, Cryptic has a perfect record.
    That is, in fact, the only viable metric. No game is going to appeal to everyone - EvE Online is quite popular in some circles, for instance, but I only played two days of my seven-day free trial before I decided that it wasn't for me (actually, I may have said something about sucking donkey testes, but that was in my own home, where it's understood that I'm not trying to be objective about it). And some here have seen me going on about the Eight-Hundred-Pound Gorilla of online games...

    So yes, for an MMO, "successful" means "profitable". Few companies are going to support a game that isn't profitable, after all, and if one does it's probably going to wind up circling the drain itself as a result. Heck, as far as I can tell, the biggest reason CoX was shut down was because NCSoft simply does not comprehend the Western MMO market. I think they thought it was a "failure" because nobody was willing to sit in an Internet cafe for more than 24 hours straight playing it.
    "Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"

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  • silverblade#7050 silverblade Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    jonsills wrote: »
    That is, in fact, the only viable metric. No game is going to appeal to everyone - EvE Online is quite popular in some circles, for instance, but I only played two days of my seven-day free trial before I decided that it wasn't for me (actually, I may have said something about sucking donkey testes, but that was in my own home, where it's understood that I'm not trying to be objective about it). And some here have seen me going on about the Eight-Hundred-Pound Gorilla of online games...

    So yes, for an MMO, "successful" means "profitable". Few companies are going to support a game that isn't profitable, after all, and if one does it's probably going to wind up circling the drain itself as a result. Heck, as far as I can tell, the biggest reason CoX was shut down was because NCSoft simply does not comprehend the Western MMO market. I think they thought it was a "failure" because nobody was willing to sit in an Internet cafe for more than 24 hours straight playing it.

    That metric can be relative too though. If a game recovers all of its costs and has a 1 cent profit, is that game considered successful? I mean, technically it was profitable.

    There have been rumors that CoX was profitable when it closed. It just wasn't profitable enough.

    To me, success is more than just a certain percentage of profitability, which is different when discussing it in a business sense. Successful MMOs to me require longevity, innovation that gets copied by other future games, loyalty of fanbase and yes, profitability. But as you can see, even those things are relative.
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Posts: 5,508 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    lordtyran1 wrote: »
    "Wouldn't it be good if they made a new super hero game."

    Nope. It wouldn't. Why?

    Perfect World Entertainment owns them. So you know, it wouldn't end up being a fun, successful, or even all that entertaining finished product.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Posts: 5,508 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    jonsills wrote: »
    And some here have seen me going on about the Eight-Hundred-Pound Gorilla of online games...

    Farmville? You know Daniel Stahl left Cryptic to work for Farmville.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,314 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Farmville? You know Daniel Stahl left Cryptic to work for Farmville.
    Oh, no, I meant a different Eight-Hundred-Pound Gorilla. Trust me, nobody wants to see me get started on Farmville... :wink:
    "Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"

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  • itsbrou#5396 itsbrou Posts: 1,770 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Why now?

    Cryptic has practically set the expectation of Champions Beyond in the future with the Whiteout setup and Until Field Report. Why a new game?
    Brou in Cryptic games.
  • rugrothrumborrugrothrumbor Posts: 534 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Just a Foundry in CO that allows players to flesh out their stories better.
  • kojirohellfirekojirohellfire Posts: 2,075 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    nepht wrote: »
    I'm not sure if you actually played City of Heroes, I myself played it from day one to the day the servers shut. I loved that game but I aint delusional to the facts .

    It's just too bad your "facts" are not actually facts but instead rather opinions.
    Things like forcing players to pay twice for Going Rouge,

    Huh? I only paid once.
    the piss poor free to play model,

    Seemed okay to me. You were only really barred from the Incarnate system if you didn't pay a subscription. Otherwise, the rest of the game's features were still accessible. The only thing that seemed stupid was the limited tells.
    Ultra Mode that did nothing but add shinys but somehow managed to bork even the greatest of graphics cards,

    My graphics card handled it just fine. Sure, I don't have a top of the line graphics card, but it ran Ultra Mode smoothly at medium settings (the highest I could get on my card without a framerate drop), but I never experienced any problem.

    Maybe the problem was on your end?
    the complete an utter borking of the power bars,

    Huh? Power bars were fine for me. What are you talking about?
    the killing of Statesman

    Meh. Statesman was a wooden 2-dimensional character anyhow. I actually welcomed that change and stated as much when it was announced.
    the list goes on and on and ON.

    Please do go on, then. I need a good laugh.
    Saying Paragon was some sort of super mythical never %&%ing fails studio is balderdash they failed a lot.

    In your opinion. In mine, they were succeeding a lot. I enjoyed many of their additions and couldn't wait for more.
    They only managed the game after the real devs left >_>

    From what I've heard, the "real" devs were practically killing the game.

    Venture? Is that you, boy?
    Cryptic went on to make Champions, Star Trek Online and Neverwinter ( both Trek and Neverwinter have been massive successes )

    At the expense of Champions.
    If it was to close tomorrow it could still be chalked up as a minor hit.

    HAHAHAHA. That's funny. Have you thought about a career in standup?
    Cryptic has made 4 successful fun MMO's .

    "Successful" is debatable, and frankly churning out a buggy, unpolished MMO every few years is hardly what I consider optimal business decisions.
    Paragon were in charge when CoX died .

    No thanks to NCSoft which decided to "realign company focus" whatever hogwash that means.
    Yes we all like to call Cryptic CRAPTIC now and then but the fact is they have yet to make a MMO that failed. Paragon didnt even make a game of their own.

    So "Give me a C, give me an R, give me a Y...."?

    Bah. Typical.
    Maybe if Paragon brown nosed NCsoft a bit City might still be here U_U"

    You mean turn it into a boring Korean grinder? No thanks.
  • zahinderzahinder Posts: 2,382 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    I don't claim Paragons excretes sunshine and rainbows, but that they were very active and productive until their masters suddenly macheted them in the side of the neck. They also took great pains to communicate with their customers and maintained a good online presence.

    Do I dislike some of what they did? Oh boy. Do I like CoH better? No. Even when CoH was f2p I kept playing CO (better graphics and a much more sensible f2p system).


    But, man, Paragon was a much better studio.
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  • shieldtowershieldtower Posts: 1,208 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    -snip-


    You mean turn it into a boring Korean grinder? No thanks.

    Ironically, CoH bombed hard in the Korean market.
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  • kojirohellfirekojirohellfire Posts: 2,075 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Ironically, CoH bombed hard in the Korean market.

    That's not ironic at all. Koreans like those boring Korean grinders. That's why they're called "boring Korean grinders."

    Boredom seems to be a Korean pastime.
  • jaguar40jaguar40 Posts: 204 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    That's not ironic at all. Koreans like those boring Korean grinders. That's why they're called "boring Korean grinders."

    Boredom seems to be a Korean pastime.

    well different type of fun.

    Even within America, some people's definition of fun is a FPS and as long as they are ganking others and winning that is fun, but when they loose, they fly into an angry fury because meeting someone that get the best of them is not fun.

    Some people in the American market like to grind grind, grind, stats, stats, stats and build cookie cutter pvp builds were the only definition of fun to them is winning and being the best. Others, don't care much about stats as long as they can get through the story.


    Even in America overall, while COX didn't bomb, it didn't exactly wasn't the most well game known. Ironically I think more people played WoW, which also did well in Korea, and StarCraft, which is also well known in Korea, than COX, the supposed "American" style MMO.
  • shieldtowershieldtower Posts: 1,208 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    That's not ironic at all. Koreans like those boring Korean grinders. That's why they're called "boring Korean grinders."

    Boredom seems to be a Korean pastime.

    When CoH was first released it was compared to grindy Korean games because it was pretty grindy. Over time, the grindy nature was toned down. The less-grindy CoH was the version released in the Korean market, and it didn't go over well. Ergo, turning City into a "boring Korean grinder" might have had some positive results despite what ignorant cultural suppositions would have you believe.

    There's even a precedent for this working: Hellgate: (London)Global. That game may be a shadow of it's former self, and a real bonafide grindfest these days, but it's still around.
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  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Huh? I only paid once.

    Lets ignore your slight ignornace about Korea. NCsoft is a multinational anyway.

    One of the biggest bugs with Freedom was Going Rouge owners that stopped subscribing got charged again even though they paid for the pack. The incarnate powers now you brought them up where an even bigger meh than Ultra mode I was subbed for the whole 8 years so I had access to them and they wernt the be all and end all Paragon made out they where.

    .. I am getting really tired of CoX "vets" that played the game for like a year or so then come here and think they can argue valid point about Champs after a few months playing.

    If you dont like the game why are you playing?

    I love the work Cryptic do all the games they have made have been epic. City of Heroes was an awesome game . City of Heroes was a Cryptic game. Paragon were the people that stayed behind sorta like the kids no one liked and never get got picked for teams and ended up in glee clubs.

    I will be so glad when this forum has an ignore feature, but imagination is a great thing please do reply and I'll imagine you dont exist :D
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  • holloweaverholloweaver Posts: 572 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    (...)
    Seemed okay to me. You were only really barred from the Incarnate system if you didn't pay a subscription. Otherwise, the rest of the game's features were still accessible. The only thing that seemed stupid was the limited tells.
    (...)

    Agreed.
    No being able to pm or not even to join a party were really huge f2p turnoff in CoX.

    I've played CoX and the only good part in this mmo was the community.
    I really miss CoX community spirit.
  • xaogarrentxaogarrent Posts: 632 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    I'd rather they just revitalize CO. I know it sounds like a weird idea, updating an already existing game with improved graphics and the new mechanics found in their other MMOs, but I think it'd work. People tend to get attached to their characters in these sorts of games, and any time you make a sequel to a massive online game you risk splitting the community, you'd be able to let people keep what they currently have while moving forward in a new direction if you did it right.

    The problem is it would be an absolutely gigantic task and I'm doubtful it would bring enough people back, or bring in enough new players, even if they did add a whole bucket load of new content and awesome new gameplay akin to a brand new game. CO's rep is kinda scarred in a lot of people's eyes, and I fear even a straight up sequel or an original game based off what people like in CO would struggle because of this.

    I know people from all stages of the game's history, leading from the more recent temporary death of activity, grab bag nonsense and catalysts, to Vibora Pay, the launch fiasco, and 'steering the ship' that wont touch the game again no matter what I say because to them the damage has been done and that's all there is to it. In one way it's frustrating and hopeless because I would have really liked to see CO thrive, in another I'm kinda proud of many people here for just putting their foot down and saying enough is enough.

    With all this said, no I really don't think them making a new Superhero MMO would work out. I'd play it, I might even like it, but I don't see it as being successful, and thus unlikely.

    ...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
  • kojirohellfirekojirohellfire Posts: 2,075 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    When CoH was first released it was compared to grindy Korean games because it was pretty grindy. Over time, the grindy nature was toned down.

    So, before my time then. I'm glad I caught CoH at the right time.
    The less-grindy CoH was the version released in the Korean market, and it didn't go over well.

    Oh, I see what you mean.

    I believe the word you're looking for is "incidental," not "ironic."
    Ergo, turning City into a "boring Korean grinder" might have had some positive results despite what ignorant cultural suppositions would have you believe.

    Bah.
    nepht wrote: »
    Lets ignore your slight ignornace about Korea. NCsoft is a multinational anyway.

    It's still based out of Korea, much like BP is based out of Britain.
    One of the biggest bugs with Freedom was Going Rouge owners that stopped subscribing got charged again even though they paid for the pack.

    I never heard of this. Prove it.
    The incarnate powers now you brought them up where an even bigger meh than Ultra mode I was subbed for the whole 8 years so I had access to them and they wernt the be all and end all Paragon made out they where.

    I don't care if you liked Incarnate or not. I'm just saying your assessment of CoH's f2p was rubbish as you still had access to most of the game. I don't see what was so "piss poor" about it. It just sounds like you're just hating on Paragon for no reason.

    By the way, the word is spelled "Rogue." Rouge is red makeup.
    .. I am getting really tired of CoX "vets" that played the game for like a year or so then come here and think they can argue valid point about Champs after a few months playing.

    I played CoH for nearly four years. That's half of its life. I think I learned that game well enough in that time.

    And what have I seen here during my time here so far? A lot of stagnation and neglect. This could have been the way CoH was treated if it remained under Cryptic. I think I would have wept.
    If you dont like the game why are you playing?

    Oh yes, I "hate" the game. That's why I'm so upset about how it's being managed and complaining about it, because I "hate" it.:rolleyes:

    Please, I'm tired of seeing this tired old wailing battle cry of Cryptic cheerleaders. Trust me when I say I wouldn't be here if I hated the game. I am of the opinion that Cryptic shouldn't be allowed to run games after they designed them, because their management sucks.
    I love the work Cryptic do all the games they have made have been epic. City of Heroes was an awesome game . City of Heroes was a Cryptic game. Paragon were the people that stayed behind sorta like the kids no one liked and never get got picked for teams and ended up in glee clubs.

    You're an ****.
    I will be so glad when this forum has an ignore feature, but imagination is a great thing please do reply and I'll imagine you dont exist :D

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  • shieldtowershieldtower Posts: 1,208 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    -snip
    Oh, I see what you mean.

    I believe the word you're looking for is "incidental," not "ironic."


    -snip

    You're correct. My vocabulatory prowess ain't what it was.
    ___________________________________________________________________________________________
  • blumoon8blumoon8 Posts: 430 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    A few months after CoX went F2P I decided to play. It was awful. I ran out of missions at level 8 with no direction where to go and the assumption that I had to grind to 11 for the next one. Honestly, they destroyed a lot of their old content that made it interesting. From the content I did see their story telling skills had evolved wonderfully but their origin missions were gutted. That was probably because of how the game changed with Architect...(Huh, maybe I was expected to farm those missions?) Granted, this is all me only playing up to 8 in f2p.

    I had played a bit before Champs and was in love with it having been exposed to it when I was first in high school as a freshman but hadn't touched it until late 2009. However, once I played Champs I could never go back. I still loved it's old system and the now login sound for Champs when you have to relog after switching characters gives me crazy nostalgia. I had heard CoH got it together and I planned to try again when I got the news. A very sad end.

    But the transition to f2p was far from perfect. Maybe because it left me disoriented after playing for so long, it's hard to say but that might be a factor to its demise. It left me with such a bad taste I didn't want to touch it again for awhile.

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  • kojirohellfirekojirohellfire Posts: 2,075 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Funny, considering f2p CoH had a "find contacts" function right under the Contact tab that was very similar to CO's Crime Computer. Were you similarly confused in CO too when you ran out of contact missions?
  • ashensnowashensnow Posts: 2,048 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    I played COX back before CO launched. I wanted some insight into the studio that was developing a game based on the Champions IP. Its one of the few games I can honestly say I disliked. There are plenty of games that I do not enjoy, but COX remains one of the few I actively disliked (although the more serious tone was not bad at all). The only reasons that I bought CO after my experience with COX was that a friend in Alpha/Closed beta assured me that CO was nothing like COX.
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  • rianfrostrianfrost Posts: 578 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    nepht wrote: »
    Lets ignore your slight ignornace about Korea. NCsoft is a multinational anyway.

    One of the biggest bugs with Freedom was Going Rouge owners that stopped subscribing got charged again even though they paid for the pack.
    was this widly reported? do not recall this at all. Also, yous aid fored, as in, it was happenign as planned. were thoe affected by the bug not refunded? if so, then you are overselling it.
    nepht wrote: »
    The incarnate powers now you brought them up where an even bigger meh than Ultra mode I was subbed for the whole 8 years so I had access to them and they wern't the be all and end all Paragon made out they where.
    Meh is a subjective measure. having access to a ranged aoe, added endurance mitigation and resistance, an aoe heal, an occasional summons, and a damage buff was pretty big for my ma/sr scrapper. You had to balance some expectations with reality of course, they had to maintain some form of balance but do recall the general consensus that incarnates helped giant monster soloing for a far wider number of powersets. as for ultra mode killing your graphics card, dont recall issues with my radeon hd 4800, and that wasnt exactly cutting edge even back then.
    [/QUOTE]
    nepht wrote: »
    If you dont like the game why are you playing?
    co not quite as bad as dcou, and there are no other customizable superhero games out there. fingers crossed fro project awakened.
    nepht wrote: »

    I love the work Cryptic do all the games they have made have been epic. City of Heroes was an awesome game . City of Heroes was a Cryptic game. Paragon were the people that stayed behind sorta like the kids no one liked and never get got picked for teams and ended up in glee clubs.
    D
    and if you had been in coh post the split, you likely noticed how much better things got ofr balance after evilgecko was replaced by floyd. arguing subjective is a fools errand, and i know that you tend to post tongue in cheek, but really, after the death march that was issue 6 to issue 8, with six month intervals between issues because jack could never focus on more than one damn thing at a time, i dont know how you can rationally say that the miller era was anything but a drastic improvement over the jack era. Coh labored under cryptic's neglect, like slashing the dev team back to 15 after cov...hey why does that sound familiar? and once they were free and under ncsoft(and yes, it does feel icky to say anything good about them) paragon transcended cryptic by a wide margin. hell, going rogue was basically finally putting out the features that jack had told pcgamer were going to be in cov shortly after launch. side switching and a functional catheral of pain trial.
  • bioshrikebioshrike Posts: 5,491 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    What they should do is to embrace and expand upon what CO and NW do well, while also learning from what they've done wrong:

    1. Build the game with a full range of enjoyable non-tedious end-game content. It must be challenging, but not frustrating, while also being rewarding.

    2. Allow powers and abilities to function differently in PvP and PvE, so you can make changes to one without impacting the other. Along with this, provide some facility for each character to be built differently in each environment.

    3. Permit a wide array of customization options, while also having costume pieces or effects tied to certain achievements in-game or costume pieces/sets purchased from the store.

    4. Fully embrace advanced forms of movement into the game. Powers and abilities should be able to take advantage of these, and they must not feel tacked-on.

    5. Reward skillful build-creation as well as skillful play itself. Make abilities at all tiers/ranks rewarding and enjoyable to use, without getting eclipsed by later skills. Incorporate power synergies not just within one's own character, but along with other players, too.

    6. Make the environment and NPCs engaging. Don't just give enemies a single line of dialog as you fight them - have them taunt you or even beg for mercy when near death. Allow more interactions with them other than simple fights to the death. Maybe sparing an enemy might yield a greater reward, or maybe they just take one last swipe at you.

    7. Build off of the companions and pets in NW and CO - give them a high degree of customization - heck, allow players to invest some of their own character's abilities into them, to make them stronger, if they so desire.


    Personally, I'd like to see a dark sc-fi action MMO, where cybernetics aren't so pretty, power armor has a worn look to it, and where the results of high energy weapons or flamethrowers aren't very nice...

    Basically, I want Rifts Online: http://palladium-store.com/1001/Rifts-Categories.html
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  • angelphoenix12angelphoenix12 Posts: 313 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    and ironically none of this even matters to cryptic. I would rather have a different company make a super hero mmo.
  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    and ironically none of this even matters to cryptic.

    This one line is truth.

    Also theres a lot of people that shouldn't play MMO's . A lot of emotional cripples that cant cope with games getting old and closing (most likely fat virgins ). A lot of people that cant admit that the game was getting old and ugly ( It looked like Minecraft :P ) I've played almost every mmo thats been about ( yeah ima old ) Ive seen them come and go with the dieing of each game not one BEEP was given , I didnt go onto another games forum and scream like a complete idiot "This should be more like this game" . I moved on played something else ( most likely because I have this awesome thing called A LIFE ). Its just a game. For the people that cant cope with change theres a few offline super games out there ( Freedom Force come to mind ).

    Cox didnt belong to the players it belonged to NCsoft it was theirs to close. Same way if Perfect World decides Champs is to shut it will shut.

    The OP asked basically should Cryptic make another super MMO and it was jumped upon by lovers of Cox ( suppose that was inevitable really ). The answer is yes they should they made City , they made Champs its what they are famous for .

    But my main point Champions is starting to get old and ugly I think it is time for a replacement that wasnt rushed.
    nepht_siggy_v6_by_nepht-dbbz19n.jpg
    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
    I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
  • itsbrou#5396 itsbrou Posts: 1,770 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    nepht wrote: »
    This one line is truth.

    Also theres a lot of people that shouldn't play MMO's . A lot of emotional cripples that cant cope with games getting old and closing (most likely fat virgins ). A lot of people that cant admit that the game was getting old and ugly ( It looked like Minecraft :P ) I've played almost every mmo thats been about ( yeah ima old ) Ive seen them come and go with the dieing of each game not one BEEP was given , I didnt go onto another games forum and scream like a complete idiot "This should be more like this game" . I moved on played something else ( most likely because I have this awesome thing called A LIFE ). Its just a game. For the people that cant cope with change theres a few offline super games out there ( Freedom Force come to mind ).

    Cox didnt belong to the players it belonged to NCsoft it was theirs to close. Same way if Perfect World decides Champs is to shut it will shut.

    The OP asked basically should Cryptic make another super MMO and it was jumped upon by lovers of Cox ( suppose that was inevitable really ). The answer is yes they should they made City , they made Champs its what they are famous for .

    But my main point Champions is starting to get old and ugly I think it is time for a replacement that wasnt rushed.

    This game is most definitely not dead, and it is not a static product that grows old and dies without improvement. It is closer to an FPS mod.

    It can be optimized. Elements can be improved or outright replaced. There are newer products running on the same engine today. Why kill it and redo the whole thing? Isn't Cryptic North preparing the game for better and more ambitious content by polishing its systems, replacing launch hacks with real solutions, etc?
    Brou in Cryptic games.
  • zahinderzahinder Posts: 2,382 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Pre-On Alert, I would have thought starting over would be easier than drastically revamping the game.

    Now, I would guess that if you wanted to make CO2 or some other super game, it'd be way cheaper to revamp the game. (Sweeping upgrades to art assets, if nothing else, balance passes, etc)

    The problem is that this fraction would still be way more than PW seems willing to put into the game.
    Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH

    Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?

    Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?

    Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    This game is most definitely not dead, and it is not a static product that grows old and dies without improvement. It is closer to an FPS mod.

    It can be optimized. Elements can be improved or outright replaced. There are newer products running on the same engine today. Why kill it and redo the whole thing? Isn't Cryptic North preparing the game for better and more ambitious content by polishing its systems, replacing launch hacks with real solutions, etc?

    As per normal valid points from Brou.

    I don't think the game is dead either but its got more years of development behind it than in front. Cryptic North will most likely follow the PW model of one major update a year. This does bode well for champs as PW knows how to make profit from average user bases.

    The newer CO engine games have a bigger IPs and bigger user bases and will always get more dev love its good business sense. What CO has over them is that Cryptic / Perfect World owns the Champions IP. I just think its a shame they havent made any more games with the IP to run along side of CO. Say a Dota style game those are always popular and might increase traffic to the older game ( thats what WB did with DC and it worked ).

    No what I was getting at is people that become to attached to the MMO's they play when their favorite game dies all logic seems to fly out the window. They all will close one day.

    My absolute favorite MMO was SWG but when it shut no BEEPS were given by myself I just played something else :D
    nepht_siggy_v6_by_nepht-dbbz19n.jpg
    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
    I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
  • bwdaresbwdares Posts: 1,517 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    nepht wrote: »
    I dont agree with it but its your life choice all the power to ya o7

    I paid Lifetime here, unless it carried over to the new game, no way I would play it. The free to play options suck, and I dont have enough faith in cryptic to pay for another life time sub.
    #Mechanon!(completed) #New Zones! #Foundry!
  • smoochansmoochan Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    nepht wrote: »
    This one line is truth.

    Also theres a lot of people that shouldn't play MMO's . A lot of emotional cripples that cant cope with games getting old and closing (most likely fat virgins ). A lot of people that cant admit that the game was getting old and ugly ( It looked like Minecraft :P ) I've played almost every mmo thats been about ( yeah ima old ) Ive seen them come and go with the dieing of each game not one BEEP was given , I didnt go onto another games forum and scream like a complete idiot "This should be more like this game" . I moved on played something else ( most likely because I have this awesome thing called A LIFE ). Its just a game. For the people that cant cope with change theres a few offline super games out there ( Freedom Force come to mind ).

    Cox didnt belong to the players it belonged to NCsoft it was theirs to close. Same way if Perfect World decides Champs is to shut it will shut.

    The OP asked basically should Cryptic make another super MMO and it was jumped upon by lovers of Cox ( suppose that was inevitable really ). The answer is yes they should they made City , they made Champs its what they are famous for .

    But my main point Champions is starting to get old and ugly I think it is time for a replacement that wasnt rushed.

    Remember on Family Guy, the one cut-away moment where Stewie is playing at Woodstock and he starts playing that "pro-establishment" song and all the people start booing? That whole thing started playing in my head as I read your post XD

    Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
  • smoochansmoochan Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    bwdares wrote: »
    I paid Lifetime here, unless it carried over to the new game, no way I would play it. The free to play options suck, and I dont have enough faith in cryptic to pay for another life time sub.

    Yeah, the free to play options in the new super hero game that Cryptic is making totally suck. I can tell you with absoloute certainty that the new super hero game that Cryptic is making, the one this thread is talking about, is totally not worth playing unless you get a subscription of some sort, because that game is totally pay2win.

    Because time.

    Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
  • smoochansmoochan Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    This game is most definitely not dead, and it is not a static product that grows old and dies without improvement. It is closer to an FPS mod.

    It can be optimized. Elements can be improved or outright replaced. There are newer products running on the same engine today. Why kill it and redo the whole thing? Isn't Cryptic North preparing the game for better and more ambitious content by polishing its systems, replacing launch hacks with real solutions, etc?

    Provide concrete proof of that or I'm gonna run you over with my Tonka truck. :mad:

    Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    smoochan wrote: »


    Remember on Family Guy, the one cut-away moment where Stewie is playing at Woodstock and he starts playing that "pro-establishment" song and all the people start booing? That whole thing started playing in my head as I read your post XD

    Ha Indeed. Yeah I do come across on the side of the companies don't I. Probably down to the fact I own a few small shops and I know a little about making money. Sometimes breaking even or just making a profit doesn't cut it. Look if SWG and City made WoW levels of money they wouldn't have been shut or the licenses sold or rented out to others then shut :I

    They didn't and they died. Its that simple.
    nepht_siggy_v6_by_nepht-dbbz19n.jpg
    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
    I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
  • xen0biaxen0bia Posts: 140 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    lordtyran1 wrote: »
    Who agrees that Cryptic should make a new super hero game?

    And not one like Champs, I'm thinking big;

    Use their own story, rather than basing it off of something else.

    Customisation similar to that of APB.

    Maybe even user-created content in-game.

    I know it's a long shot, and pretty much just a dream in my head. But come on, you guys know it'd be awesome.

    Cryptic #1 for super hero games!

    1) NO, oh god NO, any company but Cryptic or PWE! What would be the point of having Cryptic making a new game if they just end up neglecting it just as badly as they are currently neglecting CO I ask you...?

    2) Well I'm kinda liking the essence of CO so I'm not sure if I'd like it as much if it were too drastically different...

    3) Uh, CO is a IP based on the pen and paper version of the game so it is already based on it's own thing, so I don't follow you there... Unless you're talking about the far too many pop culture references and rip-offs they have in the game then, hell yes, I agree they should get rid of most of that...

    4) I find CO's character creator to be pretty mind-blowing as it, and I'm not familiar with APB to remark on that, but I will say this: if they can expand on what we currently have, add way more details and options, make it completely unrestrictive for even more limitless possibilites and make it bug-free to boot then, I'm all for it.

    5) So in other words... the Foundry.
  • nextnametakennextnametaken Posts: 2,212 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    xen0bia wrote: »
    4) I find CO's character creator to be pretty mind-blowing as it, and I'm not familiar with APB

    APB's character editor uses very real looking models, with freckles and bumps on the skin and all. However that realism limits the game to people, no robots, no lizards, no bears, no squidfaces, no fun at all.
  • clcmercyclcmercy Posts: 308 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    nepht wrote: »
    One of the biggest bugs with Freedom was Going Rouge owners that stopped subscribing got charged again even though they paid for the pack. The incarnate powers now you brought them up where an even bigger meh than Ultra mode I was subbed for the whole 8 years so I had access to them and they wernt the be all and end all Paragon made out they where.

    Then you're just not getting what made the game so much superior than this one.
    nepht wrote: »
    .. I am getting really tired of CoX "vets" that played the game for like a year or so then come here and think they can argue valid point about Champs after a few months playing.

    If you dont like the game why are you playing?

    I played and was subbed for six and a half years. I've been here for just about a year now. What does that matter? Does a person /have/ to put in some designated minimum amount of time to form an opinion on a game? I think not.

    And for the record, I don't play any more. I used to, but it all became pointless and painful even before hitting the level cap. I login every now and again to RP and chat with friends that migrated here after the closure.
    nepht wrote: »
    I love the work Cryptic do all the games they have made have been epic. City of Heroes was an awesome game . City of Heroes was a Cryptic game. Paragon were the people that stayed behind sorta like the kids no one liked and never get got picked for teams and ended up in glee clubs.
    I will be so glad when this forum has an ignore feature, but imagination is a great thing please do reply and I'll imagine you dont exist :D

    Jack Emmert was FIRED. Let go. He's the one that was never picked for teams. The rest of Paragon Studios formed after his departure and took the abandoned game to greater levels than this one will /ever/ achieve.

    By all means, please do pretend I don't exist for having a different opinion than yours.
    nepht wrote: »
    This one line is truth.

    Also theres a lot of people that shouldn't play MMO's . A lot of emotional cripples that cant cope with games getting old and closing (most likely fat virgins ). A lot of people that cant admit that the game was getting old and ugly ( It looked like Minecraft :P ) I've played almost every mmo thats been about ( yeah ima old ) Ive seen them come and go with the dieing of each game not one BEEP was given , I didnt go onto another games forum and scream like a complete idiot "This should be more like this game" . I moved on played something else ( most likely because I have this awesome thing called A LIFE ). Its just a game. For the people that cant cope with change theres a few offline super games out there ( Freedom Force come to mind ).


    And here you resort to calling names and spouting hate. Why? I think it's because you know deep down, CoX is still the superior game to this one, despite being shut down now for almost a year.

    nepht wrote: »
    Cox didnt belong to the players it belonged to NCsoft it was theirs to close. Same way if Perfect World decides Champs is to shut it will shut.

    This is the only factual statement you've made in your hate posts. As such, I do agree with it completely. The game did not belong to the players, and neither does this one. The difference between the two in my opinion is....nobody will put up much of a fight to save this game.
    nepht wrote: »
    The OP asked basically should Cryptic make another super MMO and it was jumped upon by lovers of Cox ( suppose that was inevitable really ). The answer is yes they should they made City , they made Champs its what they are famous for .

    But my main point Champions is starting to get old and ugly I think it is time for a replacement that wasnt rushed.


    My first answering post was not to bring up a dead game, but to simply state a flat no.

    Here. I'll say it again.

    Craptic sits very solidly right smack dab in the middle of mediocrity. I'm on the no side. EA could make a better superhero game than this company.

    Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
  • cgta1967cgta1967 Posts: 86 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    I think you hit a nerve nepht ......
    _______________________
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  • chaelkchaelk Posts: 7,732 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    bioshrike wrote: »

    RIFTS? The game system with even MORE books than Champions. I remember my friend bringing in 3 cardboard boxes of the rule books, so we could write up characters.
    Stuffing up Freeform builds since Mid 2011
    4e1f62c7-8ea7-4996-8f22-bae41fea063b_zpsu7p3urv1.jpg

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  • missmaeheymmissmaeheym Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    lordtyran1 wrote: »
    Who agrees that Cryptic should make a new super hero game?

    And not one like Champs, I'm thinking big;

    Use their own story, rather than basing it off of something else.

    Customisation similar to that of APB.

    Maybe even user-created content in-game.

    I know it's a long shot, and pretty much just a dream in my head. But come on, you guys know it'd be awesome.

    Cryptic #1 for super hero games!


    The entire problem with the idea is that Cryptic is owned by PEW. PEW is a soul-sucking organization that cares about its profit line above all else. They barely support their cash-cow games as it is. They care nothing for gamers.

    So, ultimately, it would be a tragedy for them to make....toast.... much less another game.
  • kojirohellfirekojirohellfire Posts: 2,075 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    cgta1967 wrote: »
    I think you hit a nerve nepht ......

    Not surprising. She's basically CO's very own version of Golden Girl with all the character traits that make her that much of a piece of ****.
  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Awww look cant make valid arguments so has to call people names. Take a lesson from Clcmercy I dont agree with him but he argues some of his points well ^__^

    But please do continue your making my point for me :D
    nepht_siggy_v6_by_nepht-dbbz19n.jpg
    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
    I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
  • kojirohellfirekojirohellfire Posts: 2,075 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    My points were already made on one of the previous pages. I even requested evidence on some of your claims. You haven't provided any.

    So I'd say it's safe to call you what you are: Bizarro Golden Girl. All bull and no substance.
  • cgta1967cgta1967 Posts: 86 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    here's what I hear:

    "nanny nanny boo boo, stick you head in doo doo...."

    that about sum it up ? ;)
    _______________________
    ---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    My points were already made on one of the previous pages. I even requested evidence on some of your claims. You haven't provided any.

    So I'd say it's safe to call you what you are: Bizarro Golden Girl. All bull and no substance.

    The evidence is this.

    City wasnt a massive enough hit didnt make enough cash for NCsoft it got closed down. Or am I mistaken is it still up did Paragon do a great job after all? If this is the case why arnt you playing CoX then?
    nepht_siggy_v6_by_nepht-dbbz19n.jpg
    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
    I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
  • kojirohellfirekojirohellfire Posts: 2,075 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    nepht wrote: »
    The evidence is this.

    City wasnt a massive enough hit didnt make enough cash for NCsoft it got closed down. Or am I mistaken is it still up did Paragon do a great job after all? If this is the case why arnt you playing CoX then?

    Oh look, a circular argument!

    circular-reasoning1.jpg
  • blumoon8blumoon8 Posts: 430 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Funny, considering f2p CoH had a "find contacts" function right under the Contact tab that was very similar to CO's Crime Computer. Were you similarly confused in CO too when you ran out of contact missions?

    I don't remember honestly but CO has always been good about pointing out where to go next. When I played CoH a few months after its transition I felt like I was left in a void. To feel like your left in a void at level 8... well.. yeah. :l I never saw that button. No idea when it was put in.

    I say stuff and I say things, sometimes together but only when I'm feeling adventurous.

    I'm @blu8 in game! :D
This discussion has been closed.