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If you won the lottery, would fund you fix Champions?

sigmaseven0sigmaseven0 Posts: 714 Arc User
Warning weird/random post:
Recently I ran across how Final Fantasy 14 was getting rebooted and it seems that the response on the "realm reborn" has been pretty positive. I thought to my self "CO would never get a 2nd chance like that because it would cost too much money".

With how scornful MMO players are I'm honestly surprised at how well the new FF 14 revamp is being received so far. This got me wondering if a brand as damaged as CO could be hypothetically reinvigorated if the funds became magically available.

Cryptic/PWE would never fix this (by fix i mean add the most requested features like fondry or whatever "fixing CO" means to you), but what if one of the hard core CO community members was suddenly sitting on hundreds of millions?
I see many post about how "CO is a waste of potential and if the devs had the budget to implement my ides it could be the best". Would you put your hypothetical money where your mouth is?

How much faith do you have in Cryptic as a studio?

Would you:

A. Not give CO a 2nd thought?

B. Want to see CO revitalized but not trust Cryptic not to waste your money?

C. Give them money and if so how much.

D. None of the above.

Bonus Question:
What do you think a "Realm Reborn" style revamp to CO would do for Champions and Cryptics reputation?
Post edited by sigmaseven0 on

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Comments

  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    If I was super Bruce Wayne rich I'd buy Perfect World ban you all and finally get some peace to freaking solo Champs U__U"
    nepht_siggy_v6_by_nepht-dbbz19n.jpg
    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
    I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
  • psi2psi2 Posts: 38 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I'd hire all of the former Paragon Devs, buy the Champions IP/game*, and tell them to freakin' go to town.




    *Or, just make a new IP entirely.
  • fudgemonstafudgemonsta Posts: 1,591 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I've gotta be honest, I probably wouldn't touch this with a twelve foot stick if I had the funds.

    Mostly cause if I did, I'd be making my own game. I has plans, you see...Buwaha. :biggrin:
    @HangingDeath

    Deliciously nutritious!
  • shieldtowershieldtower Posts: 1,208 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    nepht wrote: »
    If I was super Bruce Wayne rich I'd buy Perfect World ban you all and finally get some peace to freaking solo Champs U__U"

    I've soloed Champs for years now and never had to ban anyone to do it. :tongue:
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  • clcmercyclcmercy Posts: 308 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Rehire all former Paragon Devs and tell them to make a whole new game based on City of.

    Craptic code isn't the best to work with, from previous developer discussions in City of. Consider the reason bases didn't get a major overhaul is the spaghetti string that coding was.

    Not to mention, it's best to work on something new, rather than trying to fix old and busted.

    Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I've soloed Champs for years now and never had to ban anyone to do it. :tongue:

    IT WOULD FREAKING HELP ME!

    Ima trying to solo Serpent Lantern and mah brofist Ginger PMs me and goes on about doing BASH with him. I mute him you think problem solved wouldnt you. NOT SOLVED! not. by. a. long. shot.

    Phones me up calls me a beeatch then continues to annoy me about BASH ._.
    nepht_siggy_v6_by_nepht-dbbz19n.jpg
    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
    I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
  • flyingfinnflyingfinn Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I 've been really close for 13mill jackpot. I missed it like 3 numbers.
    I probably could toss my large wallet on the screen and see what they would do with it.
    But, there would be a To-Do List for every cent.
    Pass #1, you get a treat and so on.

    1st mill would go solemly for MORE TIGHTS!!
    CHAMPIONS ONLINE:Join Date: Apr 2008
    And playing by myself since Aug 2009
    Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
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    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • devtrackerdevtracker Posts: 66 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    If I could decide specifically what type of content the money would develop, yes. But if I didnt have any control over it, no way.
  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    First, I'd first offer to buy the Champs license off PW's hands.

    Even if I wanted to put renewed faith in Cryptic after having done so, they're currently contracted in the development of STO and NWO as well, so getting them to work on the game license I've just bought would be out of the question. Another development studio would have to be engaged to continue working on the game.
  • sigmaseven0sigmaseven0 Posts: 714 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    jennymachx wrote: »
    Another development studio would have to be engaged to continue working on the game.
    What studio? And what MMO Engine?

    PVP is starving without rewards

    1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
    2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
  • cybersoldier1981cybersoldier1981 Posts: 2,501 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I trash the IP Lore. Rewrite. Get some comic writers in here to bang something up, nothing special, just some springboards with less cheese.

    Completely new zones. New everything.

    Basically, all the costumes and powers and such would be kept.
  • dantheiceman1dantheiceman1 Posts: 121 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    well i would have 2 options.

    1. Buy the IP, and then fire all of the cryptic people and rehire the paragon boys and tell them to go to town.

    2.Start a whole new IP, based on ALL of the current superhero MMOs taking the only good pieces

    and for both points the game engine would be completely redone to run on either Unreal 4 or Cryengine 3
    http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=124755
    The Nemesis system needs fixing and here's ideas:
    A business that makes nothing but money is a poor business. Henry Ford
  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    What studio? And what MMO Engine?

    Well the engine would remain the same. Using a different engine means rebuilding everything from scratch. I'd rather just build on from whatever is already there. If I had to buy the rights to use the engine, I think it would be more cost effective than spending the resources to rebuild the whole game from scratch, and people would have to wait for a long time to play the game again without actually spending anything.

    As for the studio, I really don't know. My dream team would be the former Paragon developers for sure. The studios that are currently working on all those triple-A titles would be out of the question anyway since they're contracted with the big name publishers so I don't really know.

    I don't have any real experience in the MMO industry so this is just fun speculation.
  • gamehobogamehobo Posts: 1,970 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Warning weird/random post:Would you put your hypothetical money where your mouth is?

    How much faith do you have in Cryptic as a studio?

    Would you:

    A. Not give CO a 2nd thought?

    B. Want to see CO revitalized but not trust Cryptic not to waste your money?

    C. Give them money and if so how much.

    D. None of the above.

    Bonus Question:
    What do you think a "Realm Reborn" style revamp to CO would do for Champions and Cryptics reputation?

    I'm a money man. If I could be assured that I would become the lead producer of CO I would offer them the cash in exchange for the position and my INVESTMENT. I would not GIVE any company money for free, but I would be prepared to lose on my investment but only if I lost it myself with the creative decisions I made for the betterment of the game.

    I would need discretion on the programmers working, on the projects they work on and the option to release any programmer not working up to my extremely high standards.


    But I am assured that if I gave Champions Online $500,000 with the terms outlined above for 2 years I would have been pleased with my investment of time and money and hopefully recovered my initial investment in 5 years time. (Tho I would still not have had a salary nor would I ever get my time spent in CO back).



    And to be honest.. If I could do that, I would.. that's why I bought stock in PWE. But if it were more financially lucrative for me to do the same for one of the competitors games I completely would. Whether that be the smaller studios trying to get off the ground or even an established old studio.
  • crypticbuxomcrypticbuxom Posts: 4,443 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I would produce my own game. If that does well and my company thrives, I'll buy CO from Cryptic and put it in line.
  • sigmaseven0sigmaseven0 Posts: 714 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    gamehobo wrote: »
    I would become the lead producer of CO
    If that ever happened, the forums would be extremely interesting and GC would ***** his draws lol.

    I hope you win the power ball just so i can see this happen.

    PVP is starving without rewards

    1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
    2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
  • shieldtowershieldtower Posts: 1,208 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I trash the IP Lore. Rewrite. Get some comic writers in here to bang something up, nothing special, just some springboards with less cheese.

    Completely new zones. New everything.

    Basically, all the costumes and powers and such would be kept.

    You'd buy the IP just so you could rewrite it completely? Do me a favor and never win the lottery.
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  • cybersoldier1981cybersoldier1981 Posts: 2,501 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    You'd buy the IP just so you could rewrite it completely? Do me a favor and never win the lottery.

    Hey, you want a game with content coming out, or you want the same lore?

    Let's face it- Even CO does Champs lore poorly.
  • shieldtowershieldtower Posts: 1,208 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Hey, you want a game with content coming out, or you want the same lore?

    Let's face it- Even CO does Champs lore poorly.

    As if the lore has anything to do with the rate at which content is released or it's quality. The CU lore isn't cheesy by nature, Cryptic's handling of it just makes it seem that way.
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  • cybersoldier1981cybersoldier1981 Posts: 2,501 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    As if the lore has anything to do with the rate at which content is released or it's quality. The CU lore isn't cheesy by nature, Cryptic's handling of it just makes it seem that way.

    Hey, it was asked what I'd do if I won the lottery. It's just what I'd do- It'd be nice if one of the two superhero games wasn't either forcing you to be a sidekick, or pretty much playing a parody of comics.

    I'd rewrite a lot of it. Maybe even have the same general basic layout of Champs lore, but put some real comics writers on it.
  • shieldtowershieldtower Posts: 1,208 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Hey, it was asked what I'd do if I won the lottery. It's just what I'd do- It'd be nice if one of the two superhero games wasn't either forcing you to be a sidekick, or pretty much playing a parody of comics.

    I'd rewrite a lot of it. Maybe even have the same general basic layout of Champs lore, but put some real comics writers on it.

    It seems the issue is with how the game is written, not the lore in general. All that needs to be done is to rewrite the game, you don't need to "Trash the IP lore" to fix the silliness spin the game put on things.

    There's still so much untapped lore sitting around, like Dark Champions. A serious comic writer can utilize just that much to great effect.
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  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I actually like the cheese and that the game doesn't take itself too seriously. If the silver age era of comics is to be the game's biggest influence, then I'd expect campiness and cheesiness. The game does have its darker moments to balance things out a little.

    I don't want a superhero game where everything is like "modern" comic books and where heroes are usually brooding.

    Now, if we're talking about pop-culture references and parodies, then yes I agree that those need to be toned down a little bit. CO does have a lot of those.
  • cybersoldier1981cybersoldier1981 Posts: 2,501 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    And I'd be more than happy to let a good writer reboot Champs Lore- because let's face it, it needs a reboot. But whoever picked up Champs' sourcebooks for CO pretty much ran with the absolute worst of it, and apparently also hated comics.

    I don't expect 'Dark and Broody'. I do expect something I play to not come off like a fourth grade fart joke or a Wayans brothers parody.

    I dislike the Silver Age, because it was horrible in just as many ways- if not more- than the 1990's. Mr. Freeze? Magneto? Any cool villain? You'd have never seen them in the Silver Age. Go read up on the comics code to see how silly, homophobic, misogynistic, and outright backwards this age was.

    Modern comics as a setting is fine. We still have capes and tights- it's just people are actually writing them better. Proof of concept: Injustice: Gods Among Us did perfectly fine capturing the heroic image of certain heroes while embracing something beyond corny camp. As did DCUO, for all its limitations.
  • itsbrou#5396 itsbrou Posts: 1,770 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Pfffft, no.

    I'll put it in another venture that benefits me.

    Sorry, Champs, but there was once a time where some of us were willing to help for free. That offer has expired. What chance have you with even a dollar more from subscribers?
    Brou in Cryptic games.
  • agentnx5agentnx5 Posts: 1,999 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    First, I must deliver a strong, heartfelt warning to the readers here:


    The problem I've found with power is that many people THINK they know best how to use it but few once granted power know how to LEAD with it in a balanced, wise, and just manner.

    I mean this even with people with the best intentions. To manage wisely is to balance on a knife's edge, with leadership being the cornerstone to success.

    I speak this from direct personal and directly observed experience.



    Second, I feel an improvement can be made with angel investors putting money incentives for Cryptic/PerfectWorld in just the right areas:
    • Develop more options for revenue! -- Gambling with lockboxes shouldn't shut out other forms of revenue, give strong reasons for subscription (or Lifetime) and give more buy-once F2P options (i.e.: Freeform slots, Catalysts, and Hideouts to name a few)

    • Micro-transaction is dependent on having a sizable VOLUME of sales! -- Two methods to increase volume of sales? Lower prices and more shoppers.

      Lower prices needs to take into account the worth of an item. Certain things are priced just right, some too much, others are too cheap. I can easily think of examples of both.

      For more buyers, need to advertise to new players, create NEW EXPLORABLE CONTENT to bring back older players, and work to restore consumer confidence with safe & reliable billing combined with good customer service. Good customer service means prompt, personal (not automated BS), results-driven, and fixing the glitches/bugs in the software (and logging it in patch notes FFS!)

    • Accountability is every employee's responsibility! -- This means communicating with the customer base about intentions for upcoming development, taking feedback given during testing SERIOUSLY and working on it with enough time to fix, checking back up on recent releases to see how it's working, and having a zero-tolerance firing policy employees who make backroom deals and play favorites with specific players.

    • Rewards for quality effort, for both employees AND customers! -- Often considered a company value of many successful large corporations, it is sadly not taken seriously in the game industry as a whole. Employees who do more than produce a quota of work, who not only meet a project requirements but blow everybody's minds with the level of detail and how streamlined it all works? You give them bonuses. People who just do the minimum? You get your standard pay. How do you gauge quality? Create slider-type (the "between 1 and 10" kind of stuff) polls that do cross-analysis on different aspects of new content's quality, and poll your customers! Regularly poll the customers/players for input on "how we're doing" and make the polls get detailed (more than 10 questions). Your engaged customers are sure to take the time to give feedback, valuable numeric feedback that you can quantify. Even the polls themselves should be subject to feedback on how to improve them. It's a few hours of a shift to make a poll that can generate THOUSANDS of dollars in efficiency improvements and rewarding hard-working developers that will make a huge pay-off for the whole company in the long-run. And you'll want to be thinking long-term with business & money if you're smart.



    Seem pretty short when you put it like that but when you think about it if Champions was doing what I just wrote at a level
  • ashensnowashensnow Posts: 2,048 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    We have been told that some (perhaps even much ?) of the code in CO is so fragile that changes and attempts at fixes have the potential to do more harm than good.

    I do not know enough about software to guess whether or not it would be less expensive to start from scratch rather than toss money at CO.

    But,

    In other endeavors I know that it can at times be much more expensive to retrofit, when the foundation is not sound, than to demolish and start over.

    It seems to me that just adding new content would be the least expensive thing to do with an infusion of money...It would also have little impact on my enjoyment of the game. To me, for any investment to matter, it would need to be a ground up revision of almost the entire game.

    At that point I might as well fund a new game entirely.

    'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
  • thearkadythearkady Posts: 337 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    ashensnow wrote: »
    We have been told that some (perhaps even much ?) of the code in CO is so fragile that changes and attempts at fixes have the potential to do more harm than good.

    This is important, it's why even if I had a billion dollars, I wouldn't touch CO and Cryptic with a stick. After all, it means that either the code base really is **** and not worth investing in or that Cryptic are lazy-**** liars and not worth investing in (or possibly both).
  • canadascottcanadascott Posts: 1,257 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Depends on how much I won. :)
    /CanadaBanner4.jpg
  • nextnametakennextnametaken Posts: 2,212 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I would start from scratch with Unity or Unreal engines.

    I'd get a lifetime sub here for what its worth.
    Maybe take a trip to Cryptic and Cryptic North to flash my money around and brain storm with drunken devs.

    Maybe get someone there pregnant.
  • wethree1wethree1 Posts: 149 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    My summary of the best ideas (IMO, of course) so far, presented as a step by step process in order:

    1) Base the business model on being sustainable with a smaller, long term, very loyal player base of Superhero fans but still try to get as much of the general "gamer" community by being inclusive (probably meaning sustainable on a moderate amount of subs, but with a free model that is attractive to migrating "gamers").

    2) Bid for both CoH and CO IP and take the one you can get cheapest (probably CO, they probably won't sell CoH at all), or maybe even Freedom Force? FF could actually be kind of awesome! But if all else fails, start a new IP.

    3) Put together a studio built mainly from as many former Paragon Studio people you can get your hands on plus maybe poaching people who worked on Champions (It wasn't their fault how things went with Champs, it was their higher-ups). MOVE HEAVEN AND EARTH TO GET MATT MILLER!

    4) Do NOT use Craptic engine, use a proven long-term engine.

    5) After all of the lessons learned from CoH, Champions, and DCUOwowthisgameisprettybutsucks, build the Superhero game of the decade.
  • jaguar40jaguar40 Posts: 204 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    If I won the lottery, would I fund the fixing of Champions?

    Sure, but I'd have to make sure that the money is actually goign towards fixing the problems and content, and not into some exec's pocket and or used to fix other games, and not used for lockboxes.

    Given a official gurantee that the funds will be used to actually work on this game's bugs and or content, I will happily fund it if I won the lottery in a significant amount where it wouldnt be too big of a significant portion of the winnings.
  • ariesmajorariesmajor Posts: 394 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    What studio? And what MMO Engine?

    Changing engines isn't exactly the easiest task on the planet. It takes tons of man hours just to port over graphics object and textures. Me personally I would keep the cryptic engines upgrades found in Neverwinter, and port CO's jangled mess over to the upgraded system. Keep cryptics team in tact, as well as hire as many people from paragon as possible as well as some new blood.

    Ideally the coding work required and the man hours for just that alone, you're lookin at a good 2mil easy. (hope I'm wrong on that).

    But, that 2 mil is the budget for a huge studio, with a huge corporate team backing it. As big as cryptic claims to be now, you could twiddle that ***** down to 200,000 dollars budget and still have enough sassyness to have your graphics team pile out another new map and overhaul the current graphics for 50,000 or less. Within the year. <
    This is how hard new and up coming indy teams are working on their games.

    Money where your mouth is? I'm not even gonna bull**** you guys here, but. Money in the game development side of things is a cop out. Unless you're gonna sit up for 2 years and write a new freakin engine, theres no reason for it to cost you that much.

    If I had access to this engine, just based on freelance work in stuff like Twinity and Fiesta Online, I could be dropping you guys at least 5 costume sets a month. Some people like the toymaster could be dropping like 5 vehicles a month, plus 20 costume sets, plus new dances and emotes and hair styles like.....30 a month on just those.

    Its a costume set, its a graphic overlay with a few animation meshes that you guys already have pre formed. Doesn't take that long to pound one out.

    With a fully dedicated team you could chop this game up and make it look like you just re-released skyrim on the same engine.

    But, the only thing keeping you from achieving that goal is, dedication and time.

    If you're even missing a fraction of those, what would have taken a few weeks ends up spanning months and years.
  • cellarrat33cellarrat33 Posts: 399 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Let's see...

    If I won the lottery...

    After a year long binge of drunken hedonism, I might wake long enough from my stupor to ask my money manager if investing in Champions Online would be worth it.

    After a 5 minute laugh fit, he would say "No", and then we would move onto building my Lexcorp enterprise.

    I'm just sayin'...


    :biggrin:


    CellarRat33 :: formerly Bsquared

    ***
    "The great thing about glory unending is that it's dirt cheap!" - Tateklys
    From the Adventures of Thundrax (canadascott)
    ***
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