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So... afraid to talk due to saltyness?

guardiannexusguardiannexus Posts: 95 Arc User
Hi all. Been here a while (2008 actually) I seen a lot of communication,
no communication and so forth. I have seen trolls, and very paranoid players
rant and rave about slights and so forth.

I have also seen, and been apart of intelligent discussion about the game
with players, and with devs. Over the years there have been a lot
of changes but from what I know is that everyone on the dev team wants
CO to shine. How they go about doing that has had varying degrees of
success. When there is a lot of silence like this it usually means that the
people you like to interact are not interacting because they are busy
with some form of system work or asset generation.

Then the talking is left with guys with so many things in their inbox that
they don't have time to say much meaningful, even if they want to, and
the people with not so thick skin to deal with the onslaught of "WTF man!"

Then there are the powder keg threads, like the two we have had in
recent days. They will not touch them (doubt that the devs will touch
this thread actually) because they have all be advised in the past not
to fan any fire, as the discussion will shift due to impart a dev is
interacting with the players and it will skew what is the crux of the
problem/solutions found in said thread.

Honestly the main reason why the silence, right now, is due to somebody
saying "We need to give them concrete info so wait until we have that."
Its not the right midset but it is the one they have. Its is a natural human
reaction to prickly situations.


Not sure why I posted this. Guess I wanted to add my two cents.
Post edited by guardiannexus on

Comments

  • enixonbbenixonbb Posts: 126 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Yeah the forum can be pretty...doom-y but if it makes you feel any better this one's dang near a bastion of happy thoughts compared to the Neverwinter forums :biggrin:
  • atringatring Posts: 233 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    3083489-comic+scan+376.jpg
    ***************


    Part of the problem since December, 2012.
  • cybersoldier1981cybersoldier1981 Posts: 2,501 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Over the years there have been a lot
    of changes but from what I know is that everyone on the dev team wants
    CO to shine.

    I'm not seeing proof right now.

    Then there are the powder keg threads, like the two we have had in
    recent days. They will not touch them (doubt that the devs will touch
    this thread actually) because they have all be advised in the past not
    to fan any fire, as the discussion will shift due to impart a dev is
    interacting with the players and it will skew what is the crux of the
    problem/solutions found in said thread.

    A development team took over in January. It is now July. Not even saying 'Hi, we're glad to be here!' is flat-out sad.
  • flyingfinnflyingfinn Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    It must be something truly awesome that they are working on since the silence has been defeaning for like, what 2 years?
    ...
    Yay!!! Foundry!!!!! 3 New Zones!!!! More Power Sets!!!! Multiple leveling paths!!!! More Alerts!!!!! More Events!!!

    :rolleyes:

    Did they have Rose-colored glasses sale again?

    So zero amount of communication is a good thing?

    *GIBBS SLAP*
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  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    flyingfinn wrote: »
    *GIBBS SLAP*

    Visual aid:

    tumblr_mbt6diqWMt1r21o7g.gif
  • scorpagorscorpagor Posts: 607 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Honestly the main reason why the silence, right now, is due to somebody
    saying "We need to give them concrete info so wait until we have that."
    Its not the right midset but it is the one they have. Its is a natural human
    reaction to prickly situations.

    This is pure speculation on your part.

    Just sayin'.
  • thearkadythearkady Posts: 337 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    [QUOTE=guardiannexus;3349301When there is a lot of silence like this it usually means that the people you like to interact are not interacting because they are busy with some form of system work or asset generation.[/QUOTE]

    Really? When I try to talk to people who're busy busy busy, they usually tell me they're busy busy busy. And when I go, "Really?", they tend to give me a quick pointer what they're busy busy busy with befor getting all busy busy busy again.

    If anyone at Cryptic is actually as much as busy, let alone triple busy, working on CO or has been over the last year or so, the company finally needs to finally hire a communications minor to head PR instead of leaving that job to the monkey that speaks no evil, good, chaotic neutral, or anything at all.
  • chaelkchaelk Posts: 7,732 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Just a reminder, if you read the interveiw linked to the PR message about cryptic north, you find out that they are working on all three games.

    NOT just on champions, and what they have been doing on champions is "polishing". Not updates, not expansions, "polishing"

    Don't just read the announcement, it's a PR message, it's meant to sound good. I'd like to see if there was one on STO as well and what it said.

    I'd be more otpimistic, if the person who accidently blabbed on NW forums, about their boyfriend going for an interveiw for a dev position had said they were hiring for all three games Not just 2.
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  • lafury001200lafury001200 Posts: 567 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Quit beating up on the interns. The Transition from CO to other games is rough enough competition altogether without some of them being run through the gauntlet that Champions Online is famous for.

    Our complaints steal food off of their tables. If we want communication, we will need to serve a banquet (of money) on those tables in a show of atonement( Yes we must spend even more.)

    Statistics show that without a doubt the gaming community that has the least developer/community discussion is the most successful. Numbers. On the internet. Said so.

    Serve.

    The.

    Turkeyh!
  • flyingfinnflyingfinn Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    'When the last tree is cut down, the last fish eaten, and the last stream poisoned, you will realize that you cannot eat money'
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  • guardiannexusguardiannexus Posts: 95 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I'm not seeing proof right now.

    Don't have to. They did the same thing as they are doing now since beta.


    A development team took over in January. It is now July. Not even saying 'Hi, we're glad to be here!' is flat-out sad.

    Irrelevent to my point, but it is kind true. Remember one thing: The devs have responded to threads like that two ways: Shut them down, due to the topic going far off topic or saying one thing when the entire form is on the same page. Right now there are two stands to this issue, mostly how to communicate to them, and not actually about anything else other than two people saying, "Hey talk to us we are mad and you owe it to us!"
    thearkady wrote: »
    Really? When I try to talk to people who're busy busy busy, they usually tell me they're busy busy busy. And when I go, "Really?", they tend to give me a quick pointer what they're busy busy busy with befor getting all busy busy busy again.

    If anyone at Cryptic is actually as much as busy, let alone triple busy, working on CO or has been over the last year or so, the company finally needs to finally hire a communications minor to head PR instead of leaving that job to the monkey that speaks no evil, good, chaotic neutral, or anything at all.

    This game has went through 4-5 community reps from Champions. The first had a thread with a day to day thing call "a day in the life of..." I can't remember her name off the top of her head but it was a fire cat... The next one, IronAngel did PR stuff wtih me during beta and got me interviews with Cryptic when I wrote for Cryptic Gamers, a now extremely defuct website about CO and STO (this is Nexus from before the nuking btw). As the live date loomed conversations got shorter and shorter. We changed a few people again and again.

    flyingfinn wrote: »
    It must be something truly awesome that they are working on since the silence has been defeaning for like, what 2 years?
    ...
    Yay!!! Foundry!!!!! 3 New Zones!!!! More Power Sets!!!! Multiple leveling paths!!!! More Alerts!!!!! More Events!!!

    :rolleyes:

    Did they have Rose-colored glasses sale again?

    So zero amount of communication is a good thing?

    *GIBBS SLAP*

    I don't know what they working on FF. You have been here as long as I have. This same thing happened during the launch, when they go really quiet after the kitchen sink patch, untill the forums blew up about all that was wrong, When they were working on Adventure packs (until they put out the video about them), the comic series, etc. Same old same old.
    scorpagor wrote: »
    This is pure speculation on your part.

    Just sayin'.

    Actually it is not. While I don't have the quote, as the forms have been nuked twice since then. The lead developer when on record to say that they don't interfere with thread until they become problematic and that they want to give us facts, and no speculation because If they say one thing then we don't deliver that one thing we are up their buts about it, kinda like now. So they stay quiet until they have solid eta on things we would want, like how long it was too between the last two until reports.
  • flyingfinnflyingfinn Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    That someone who said something about something is long gone. Happened 3 times all ready i think. And every new guy saying something has new goals. Old ones get sweeped in the trashbins.
    It happened with Nemesis System. With Crafting. With Power Reviews. With Comic Series. With Adventure Packs. With Open World Events. And with Alerts, or is there something new going on with Alerts? Nope, we got Event Rotation.
    Whats the 'Next New Shiney Thing'? Foundry?
    There's no denying that CO is in a sad state. And it's even more sad that they seems to think that noncommunication with playerbase about the future things is a good for the game and business.
    Oh, they did say whats the next big thing after 'Alert Rotation' is, Auras...
    Does it surprise me? Nope, since it's been going on long time.

    Good thing Cryptic released a new game. Neverwinter.
    And things aren't looking good there either. Seems more like it's still in the "Open Beta" state. Actually it's in worse state.
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  • lafury001200lafury001200 Posts: 567 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    "Actually it is not. While I don't have the quote, as the forms have been nuked twice since then. The lead developer when on record to say that they don't interfere with thread until they become problematic and that they want to give us facts, and no speculation because If they say one thing then we don't deliver that one thing we are up their buts about it, kinda like now. So they stay quiet until they have solid eta on things we would want, like how long it was too between the last two until reports"

    Um no. The equivalent of UNTIL reports were done away with on other forums. Co just never bothered to follow through.

    Sorry but the "history" is way off. To the point of not being history.

    At all. You don't have the quote because what you describe has never been the case.
  • roughbearmattachroughbearmattach Posts: 4,784 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    atring wrote: »
    3083489-comic+scan+376.jpg


    Sorry, but I don't believe that Doc Doom could drink that beverage without a straw. Look at the grill on that mask.
    ___________________________________________________________

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  • guardiannexusguardiannexus Posts: 95 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    flyingfinn wrote: »
    That someone who said something about something is long gone. Happened 3 times all ready i think. And every new guy saying something has new goals. Old ones get sweeped in the trashbins.
    It happened with Nemesis System. With Crafting. With Power Reviews. With Comic Series. With Adventure Packs. With Open World Events. And with Alerts, or is there something new going on with Alerts? Nope, we got Event Rotation.
    Whats the 'Next New Shiney Thing'? Foundry?
    There's no denying that CO is in a sad state. And it's even more sad that they seems to think that noncommunication with playerbase about the future things is a good for the game and business.
    Oh, they did say whats the next big thing after 'Alert Rotation' is, Auras...
    Does it surprise me? Nope, since it's been going on long time.

    Good thing Cryptic released a new game. Neverwinter.
    And things aren't looking good there either. Seems more like it's still in the "Open Beta" state. Actually it's in worse state.

    Just had a thought. While this is speculative, maybe they just have all of these systems in to get them working together later. While I remember that comic series replaced Adventure packs, it seems that the game itself has alot of systems that if integrated with one another would be a nice thing to see. An nemesis event that turns into a comic series for a month long story arc to progress that then has alerts to deal with during the spaces in between the comic series to keep the tension up.

    Or it could be a haphazard try to make it better only to fail due to financial and time constraints. I mean Even Paragon Studios was working on the graphical update and things for months while working on the other issues, as Matt Miller said in a youtube podcast.
  • guardiannexusguardiannexus Posts: 95 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    "Actually it is not. While I don't have the quote, as the forms have been nuked twice since then. The lead developer when on record to say that they don't interfere with thread until they become problematic and that they want to give us facts, and no speculation because If they say one thing then we don't deliver that one thing we are up their buts about it, kinda like now. So they stay quiet until they have solid eta on things we would want, like how long it was too between the last two until reports"

    Um no. The equivalent of UNTIL reports were done away with on other forums. Co just never bothered to follow through.

    Sorry but the "history" is way off. To the point of not being history.

    At all. You don't have the quote because what you describe has never been the case.

    Okay if thats what you think then okay. I don't so I won't worry about it to much. I will
    let someone else who has the time to dig through archived posts or can verify it better than I can to make that point.

    I was apart of that thread but it has been years so I won't worry about it to much.
  • thundergearincthundergearinc Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Sorry, but I don't believe that Doc Doom could drink that beverage without a straw. Look at the grill on that mask.

    fixed :biggrin:
    12314.jpg
  • clcmercyclcmercy Posts: 308 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I mean Even Paragon Studios was working on the graphical update and things for months while working on the other issues, as Matt Miller said in a youtube podcast.

    I'm going to have to chime in here and point out that at least Mr. Miller COMMUNICATED THAT FACT. Here? Nada. Zip. Zilch.

    I'd also like to point out, that during the "Freem Fifteen" time, Paragon Studios STILL managed to put out content. Again, here? Nada. Zip. Zilch.

    Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
  • cybersoldier1981cybersoldier1981 Posts: 2,501 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Irrelevent to my point, but it is kind true. Remember one thing: The devs have responded to threads like that two ways: Shut them down, due to the topic going far off topic or saying one thing when the entire form is on the same page. Right now there are two stands to this issue, mostly how to communicate to them, and not actually about anything else other than two people saying, "Hey talk to us we are mad and you owe it to us!"

    1- Devs aren't shutting down threads. The Community Manager and Forum Moderator are. Neither of them are Devs.

    2- Hey, I'm not demanding they talk to us. I can't demand you don't snort bath salts- I can tell you it's not in your best interest to do that and show you how it's damaging you.
  • guardiannexusguardiannexus Posts: 95 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    1- Devs aren't shutting down threads. The Community Manager and Forum Moderator are. Neither of them are Devs.

    2- Hey, I'm not demanding they talk to us. I can't demand you don't snort bath salts- I can tell you it's not in your best interest to do that and show you how it's damaging you.

    1) "Dev" is being used as a catch all term. In the past they did sometimes shut them down. But it was few and far between. I know there is a difference, in some cases quite a large difference, but I using it the same way "content" is used on this form for a catch all.

    2) While that may be your intent it is not the best execution for that endeavor. Now I don't care either way and that road is well trodden in a few threads already.
  • cybersoldier1981cybersoldier1981 Posts: 2,501 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    1) "Dev" is being used as a catch all term. In the past they did sometimes shut them down. But it was few and far between. I know there is a difference, in some cases quite a large difference, but I using it the same way "content" is used on this form for a catch all.

    2) While that may be your intent it is not the best execution for that endeavor. Now I don't care either way and that road is well trodden in a few threads already.

    Then I'll keep it simple-

    If you refuse to communicate with your customers because some are expressing anger, then you're not fit to run a business- I'm no business major, but I'd think that might be the ideal time to communicate in some way, if you want to do some kind of damage control. That's worse than insulting someone- you're damning the entirety of your customers based on the actions of a few. Not only that, but if you cannot manage to handle angry customers, then you probably don't need to have a job that involves 'customers' in the traditional sense. Just saying.

    That being said, I'm having a little faith because 'something' is in the works.
  • guardiannexusguardiannexus Posts: 95 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Then I'll keep it simple-

    If you refuse to communicate with your customers because some are expressing anger, then you're not fit to run a business- I'm no business major, but I'd think that might be the ideal time to communicate in some way, if you want to do some kind of damage control. That's worse than insulting someone- you're damning the entirety of your customers based on the actions of a few. Not only that, but if you cannot manage to handle angry customers, then you probably don't need to have a job that involves 'customers' in the traditional sense. Just saying.

    That being said, I'm having a little faith because 'something' is in the works.

    Its not due to expressing anger, it is the volatile nature of what will happen if what they say does not pan out. If they said, "Okay what we are working on will change the game fundamentally and make everything better because we are doing X,Y, and Z" and then something happens on their end that borks that timeline, something that they cannot talk about to anyone outside the company due to other reasons, then they are in the same place where they started only now it is a deeper hole.

    So they wait, in my opinion far too long, to give those that come to the forums data on what is happening. However I know this for a fact, no one who is working on CO wants it to fail. That would me loss of jobs and a loss of income for the company. And that would be bad business.
  • kemmicalskemmicals Posts: 853 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Somehow I can imagine they have a big cork board with a bunch of angry forums posts pinned to it...






    That they pass by on a daily basis just to get a good chuckle.
  • sistersiliconsistersilicon Posts: 1,687 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Its not due to expressing anger, it is the volatile nature of what will happen if what they say does not pan out. If they said, "Okay what we are working on will change the game fundamentally and make everything better because we are doing X,Y, and Z" and then something happens on their end that borks that timeline, something that they cannot talk about to anyone outside the company due to other reasons, then they are in the same place where they started only now it is a deeper hole.

    If this was a matter of them announcing major functional changes without performing the necessary impact analysis first, you'd be right. But that's not what's actually happening. They're just kit-bashing old content together in new, slightly different ways with some new models, and not telling us about it until the first mission in the chain is ready.
    So they wait, in my opinion far too long, to give those that come to the forums data on what is happening. However I know this for a fact, no one who is working on CO wants it to fail. That would me loss of jobs and a loss of income for the company. And that would be bad business.

    Unfortunately, CO's shutdown would just mean that the handful of main office devs on CO and Cryptic North would be moved over to Neverwinter and Star Trek. That flexibility to reallocate people from game to game is one of Cryptic's selling points as a studio. And based on the limited financial data they've fed to us through TT, CO is basically self-sufficient on its own cash shop sales. Shutting us down won't take money away from STO or NW, so they'll just repurpose our server hardware for those games and be done with it.

    To be honest, we're so inconsequential to Cryptic's bottom line that they could have pulled the NCSoft "Bored Now" shutdown at any time. That's the one faint glimmer of hope we have right now. Whether it's because they really do have future plans for this game, they're afraid of the consequences to their reputation if they shut us down, or if Jack is still trying to pry the CoH lore from NCSoft's greedy little mitts remains to be seen.

    It's still frustrating as #@%# that they don't say anything to us, though.
    Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
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  • guardiannexusguardiannexus Posts: 95 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    If this was a matter of them announcing major functional changes without performing the necessary impact analysis first, you'd be right. But that's not what's actually happening. They're just kit-bashing old content together in new, slightly different ways with some new models, and not telling us about it until the first mission in the chain is ready.



    Unfortunately, CO's shutdown would just mean that the handful of main office devs on CO and Cryptic North would be moved over to Neverwinter and Star Trek. That flexibility to reallocate people from game to game is one of Cryptic's selling points as a studio. And based on the limited financial data they've fed to us through TT, CO is basically self-sufficient on its own cash shop sales. Shutting us down won't take money away from STO or NW, so they'll just repurpose our server hardware for those games and be done with it.

    To be honest, we're so inconsequential to Cryptic's bottom line that they could have pulled the NCSoft "Bored Now" shutdown at any time. That's the one faint glimmer of hope we have right now. Whether it's because they really do have future plans for this game, they're afraid of the consequences to their reputation if they shut us down, or if Jack is still trying to pry the CoH lore from NCSoft's greedy little mitts remains to be seen.

    It's still frustrating as #@%# that they don't say anything to us, though.

    Wait a sec...did you write we are self sufficient? so we are not red or black we are dead even? If you have the link and a few data points on how fast we became sufficient I would like to see that.

    the reason I bring that up is because I have been working with a company for their re branding and franchising. Their model was the same place we are in 6 months and raked in big last year. That is a major feat. Also:
    lordgar wrote: »
    I have a whole host of costume fixes in the pipeline. This one was done early because we needed to use the piece in an upcoming piece of content.

    Seeing as the people that get things done have streamlined due to new MMO necessity the fact that no one on the CO team has time to talk about anything, due impart of the work load, may may have proved part of my point, hopefully.

    Also:
    We've had to bring PTS down for the evening -- some stuff was visible that should've been hidden, it wasn't ready for prime time.

    As a favor, I'd appreciate it if what was visible didn't get discussed here. I know everyone's excited about what's coming up, but we don't want anything to get revealed before it's completely polished.
  • sistersiliconsistersilicon Posts: 1,687 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Wait a sec...did you write we are self sufficient? so we are not red or black we are dead even? If you have the link and a few data points on how fast we became sufficient I would like to see that.

    From my late January freak-out thread: http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=2907291&postcount=27 If we were dead even, I doubt that would be enough to keep the lights on, but it's not exactly barrels of profit, either. (Also note that the communication plan mentioned then turned into exactly one Ask Cryptic full of Soon and No answers to inconsequential questions, and nothing more.)
    Seeing as the people that get things done have streamlined due to new MMO necessity the fact that no one on the CO team has time to talk about anything, due impart of the work load, may may have proved part of my point, hopefully.

    STO and NW devs are plenty busy, too. They still find time to talk to their communities regularly. So CO is either understaffed or, to be blunt, they're apathetic.

    Oh, and the stuff they pulled down from PTS is probably the first mission of the new chain. :biggrin: Let's see if it's a springboard to something so cool, they can't stop bragging about it, or more of the same old same old.
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    They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
  • guardiannexusguardiannexus Posts: 95 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    From that link it seems like it is the former not the latter.

    Now far be it from me to tell them what to do but I would love the following,
    and I think it would bring up retention and new people as well:


    Ways to earn harmon catylists and cosmic keys in game
    without resorting to Q for top level mission rewards (UNITY
    )



    A comic series to save Celestar's teammates and seal Kigatilic's
    primary body, with an explanation on why the cosmic still comes out..



    Change all Lairs to revamped Adventure packs with new content
    mechanics, lore, and comic panels.


    An expansion on the event system in place now that incorparates
    Open mission failure: a robust zone change until beaten back
    that expands or contracts to a final boss as you fail or win
    sections of the open mission each a specific mechanic to
    look out for to nip it in the bud sooner. with rewards for those
    that contribute to the cause example:


    -Mega D event triggers attacks on the entire city and an impromptu
    invasion happens. Beating it back gets you a mission to
    fight Doc D on his asteroid base (an alert mission) after
    all the things have been taken care of.


    -The Bloodmoon starts on in several areas at once and takes
    a zone to stop it. If it is not taken down soon the normal event
    takes palce and all must be stopped in a zone for taco to come out.


    Things like that.
  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Things that are salty.

    Beef Jerky.

    Sea.

    Salt.

    Thank me later.
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    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
    I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
  • sistersiliconsistersilicon Posts: 1,687 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    nepht wrote: »
    Things that are salty.

    Beef Jerky.

    Sea.

    Salt.

    Thank me later.

    Mmmmm, sea salt & malt vinegar kettle chips...

    /drools
    Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
    They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
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