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One more CoH character revisited.

clawsandeffectclawsandeffect Posts: 155 Arc User
edited June 2013 in Power Discussion
Okay, I dusted off another one of my old CoH characters and decided to re-envision him in Champions.

The concept: He is a being of pure darkness. Not to mean that he is a darkity-dark emo git, he is actually made of darkness. His true form is literally a shadow, but he can take a vaguely humanoid form when he chooses to. Not that he resembles a human much in that form, but he has 2 arms, 2 legs, and a head located in approximately humanoid locations. He's not really a hero, his mission is to collect concentrated fear from people with evil souls to use as an energy source on his home plane. The easiest way to do that is to operate as a hero and create that fear himself. He's not evil, he just comes from a plane of existence where the rules are different.

He had many forms in CoH, but I think the one I liked the best was as a Claws/Dark Armor brute. Unfortunately, I couldn't quite nail the concept with any available CoH combination, but I think I did it pretty well here.

He's generally a melee combatant, with a little bit of crowd control via fears and a nice looking paralyze power (Grasping Shadows), also has an uncontrolled pet for flavor (Summon Shadows).

Night Warrior, high dodge/avoidance chance, self-healing ability and Fear stacking are his means of survivability. Went with Bestial Supernatural claw attacks for his melee and picked up quite a few powers from Darkness. I was shooting for strong synergy between the Bleeds and Fears, with Frenzy dealing extra damage to Feared targets and Devour Essence healing more when used on Bleeding targets.

The build is below. Any tips on powers that will synergize well or seem especially appropriate to the concept are appreciated. I'm not really shooting for pure power, just a character that is fun to play and a little different.

I'm a little stumped on good active offenses and Forms for him, so any advice in that regard would be nice, as well as any tips on what level to take various powers at. I went with Shadow Shroud as my active offense for theme, but it's not set in stone if someone can come up with a reason why I should take something else instead.

Build:

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name:

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Dexterity (Primary)
Level 10: Strength (Secondary)
Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Fist
Level 6:
Level 9:
Level 12:
Level 15:
Level 18:
Level 21:

Powers:
Level 1: Bestial Fury (Rip and Tear)
Level 1: Shred (Rank 2, Penetrating Strikes)
Level 6: Frenzy (Rank 2, Fear Sense)
Level 8: Night Warrior (Silent Running)
Level 11: Ebon Void (Voracious Darkness)
Level 14: Void Shift (Emerging Nightmares)
Level 17: Supernatural Power
Level 20: Shadow Shroud (Rank 2, Terrifying Visage)
Level 23: Devour Essence (Rank 2, Phlebotomist)
Level 26: Dark Transfusion (Blood Sacrifice)
Level 29: Grasping Shadows (Unyielding Agony)
Level 32: Massacre (Rank 2, Blood Mess)
Level 35: Summon Shadows (Rank 2, Devouring Darkness)
Level 38: Fury of the Dragon (Real Ultimate Power)

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Athletics
Level 35: Shadow Wings

Specializations:
Dexterity: Combat Training (3/3)
Dexterity: Gear Utilization (2/3)
Dexterity: Evasion (2/2)
Dexterity: Deadly Aim (1/3)
Dexterity: Quick Reflexes (2/3)
Brawler: No Escape (1/3)
Brawler: Penetrating Strikes (2/2)
Brawler: Ruthless (2/2)
Brawler: Finishing Blow (1/3)
Brawler: Setup (2/2)
Brawler: Offensive Expertise (2/2)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: The Rush of Battle (3/3)
Vindicator: Modified Gear (1/2)
Vindicator: Offensive Expertise (1/2)
Mastery: Dexterity Mastery (1/1)
Post edited by clawsandeffect on

Comments

  • clawsandeffectclawsandeffect Posts: 155 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Okay, I've decided to capitalize on my Bleeds and go with Form of the Swordsman and Way of the Warrior for my Form and slotted passive.

    It now looks like this:

    PowerHouse (Link to this build)

    Name:

    Archetype: Freeform

    Super Stats:
    Level 6: Dexterity (Primary)
    Level 10: Strength (Secondary)
    Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

    Talents:
    Level 1: The Fist
    Level 6:
    Level 9:
    Level 12:
    Level 15:
    Level 18:
    Level 21:

    Powers:
    Level 1: Bestial Fury (Rip and Tear)
    Level 1: Shred (Rank 2, Penetrating Strikes)
    Level 6: Frenzy (Rank 2, Fear Sense)
    Level 8: Void Shift (Emerging Nightmares)
    Level 11: Way of the Warrior (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 14: Ebon Void (Voracious Darkness)
    Level 17: Soul Mesmerism
    Level 20: Devour Essence (Rank 2, Phlebotomist)
    Level 23: Form of the Swordsman
    Level 26: Supernatural Power
    Level 29: Dark Transfusion (Blood Sacrifice)
    Level 32: Grasping Shadows (Unyielding Agony)
    Level 35: Massacre (Rank 2, Blood Mess)
    Level 38: Summon Shadows (Rank 2, Devouring Darkness)

    Travel Powers:
    Level 6: Athletics
    Level 35: Shadow Wings

    Specializations:
    Dexterity: Combat Training (3/3)
    Dexterity: Gear Utilization (2/3)
    Dexterity: Evasion (2/2)
    Dexterity: Deadly Aim (1/3)
    Dexterity: Quick Reflexes (2/3)
    Brawler: No Escape (1/3)
    Brawler: Penetrating Strikes (2/2)
    Brawler: Ruthless (2/2)
    Brawler: Finishing Blow (1/3)
    Brawler: Setup (2/2)
    Brawler: Offensive Expertise (2/2)
    Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
    Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
    Vindicator: The Rush of Battle (3/3)
    Vindicator: Modified Gear (1/2)
    Vindicator: Offensive Expertise (1/2)
    Mastery: Dexterity Mastery (1/1)
  • carrionbaggagecarrionbaggage Posts: 731 Community Moderator
    edited June 2013
    I like it! I would go with Form of the Tempest instead of Form of the Swordsman. That way, you can trigger your form with any attacks instead of just Shred. I would also take Athletics to Rank 3. No self-respecting hero wants to be their team's caboose.

    I would drop Dark Transfusion and Soul Mesmerism. I don't see you having Energy problems as long as you have a bit of Cost Discount gear, and I can't think of any time you would use Soul Mesmerism unless it's vital to your concept. In their place, I would put Intensity (boosts two of your superstats) and Masterful Dodge (good damage reduction for emergencies).

    Some suggestions on the Spec Trees:
    Dexterity: Combat Training (2/3)
    Dexterity: Gear Utilization (3/3)
    Dexterity: Deadly Aim (3/3)
    Dexterity: Expose Weakness (2/2)

    Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
    Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
    Vindicator: The Rush of Battle (2/3)
    Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)

    DEX Tree Notes
    Once you get enough DEX and some decent Critical Strike gear, the return from Combat Training is pretty minor thanks to diminishing returns - though it is still something. Brush It Off is a decent option if you don't want Combat Training at all. Deadly Aim gives a fantastic return, and is typically considered the most important part of the DEX Tree. Expose Weakness is also great for anyone with rapid attacks. You can get pretty solid Dodge/Avoid from gear, which pushes anything you would get from Evasion and Quick Reflexes into diminishing returns.

    Vindicator Tree Notes
    The build excels at single-target damage, so I found room for Focused Strikes.

    Brawler Tree looks fine. You hit the main points there - Penetrating Strikes, Ruthless, and Setup. It's also worth mentioning that, despite the in-game listing, Frenzy doesn't count as a Combo attack. Fortunately, Shred still does.
  • cheesesloppycheesesloppy Posts: 245 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Changed from Dex to Str. This is so I could add Unleashed Rage, which does a lot more damage than the MA Ultimate.

    The rest is just to add extra surviability and maximize damage.




    PowerHouse (Link to this build)

    Name:

    Archetype: Freeform

    Super Stats:
    Level 6: Strength (Primary)
    Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
    Level 15: Intelligence (Secondary)

    Talents:
    Level 1: The Devastator
    Level 6: Relentless
    Level 9: Quick Recovery
    Level 12: Negotiator
    Level 15: Bodybuilder
    Level 18: Boundless Reserves
    Level 21: Investigator

    Powers:
    Level 1: Bestial Fury
    Level 1: Shred (Rank 2, Penetrating Strikes)
    Level 6: Frenzy (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 8: Aspect of the Bestial
    Level 11: Way of the Warrior (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 14: Void Shift (Emerging Nightmares, Nailed to the Ground)
    Level 17: Conviction (Rank 2)
    Level 20: Massacre (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 23: Supernatural Power
    Level 26: Masterful Dodge
    Level 29: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Resurgent Reiki)
    Level 32: Evasive Maneuvers (Sleight of Mind)
    Level 35: Unleashed Rage (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 38: Shadow Shroud (Terrifying Visage)

    Travel Powers:
    Level 6: Acrobatics (Rank 2, Rank 3, Versatility)
    Level 35: Shadow Wings

    Specializations:
    Strength: Swole (3/3)
    Strength: Physical Peak (2/3)
    Strength: Brutality (2/2)
    Strength: Juggernaut (3/3)
    Brawler: The Glory of Battle (1/3)
    Brawler: Penetrating Strikes (2/2)
    Brawler: Ruthless (2/2)
    Brawler: Finishing Blow (3/3)
    Brawler: Setup (2/2)
    Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
    Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
    Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
    Vindicator: Mass Destruction (2/3)
    Mastery: Strength Mastery (1/1)
  • kallethenkallethen Posts: 1,576 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Some food for thought, a while back I posted a Focus-based Bestial build that I use.

    http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=220131

    She was more crit-happy than bleed-happy. Form of the Tempest builds to full stacks VERY easily. And she could off-tank in Melee role.

    What you have in your latest post looks pretty good though.
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  • pharmacopharmaco Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    For a good active offense that fits your theme, might I suggest Shadow Shroud with the Terrifying Visage advantage. The look is darkness awesome sauce and the buff isn't bad either.
  • clawsandeffectclawsandeffect Posts: 155 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I like it! I would go with Form of the Tempest instead of Form of the Swordsman. That way, you can trigger your form with any attacks instead of just Shred. I would also take Athletics to Rank 3. No self-respecting hero wants to be their team's caboose.

    The advantage on my energy builder will cause Bleed as well, and Shred is going to be my bread and butter single target attack anyway.

    I'm actually more torn between Form of the Swordsman and Aspect of the Bestial. Not sure if I want to capitalize on Focus or Enrage. Frenzy will trigger a stack of Enrage on the third hit all by itself, and I have 2 powers that will cause a Bleed.

    Not really too worried about travel time. I solo 90% of the time anyway, so I won't have a team waiting on me. Kinda want to use those advantage points elsewhere. I'd rather be more effective when I arrive than arrive faster.


    I would drop Dark Transfusion and Soul Mesmerism. I don't see you having Energy problems as long as you have a bit of Cost Discount gear, and I can't think of any time you would use Soul Mesmerism unless it's vital to your concept. In their place, I would put Intensity (boosts two of your superstats) and Masterful Dodge (good damage reduction for emergencies).

    I wanted Dark Transfusion both for concept and for the damage boost from the advantage. It's a very Dark Armor-like power, and nice to have for the "crap, I need energy NOW" factor. Since my energy unlock is specifically linked to my supernatural powers, if I use a lot of dark powers in a row it won't trigger.

    Soul Mesmerism wasn't supposed to be in there. I was checking out powers and didn't realize it was still in the build when I exported it. That spot should be taken by Soul Shroud with the Terrifying Visage advantage (as someone suggested below).

    The fear is more important than the superstats boost, both for concept and to boost Frenzy'z damage. It's also a nice addition to survivability. Even if they hit me, if they are Feared they will do less damage when they do. Multiple ways in the build to apply Fear, which kind of ties in with the idea that being attacked by a living shadow is scary as hell.

    Once you get enough DEX and some decent Critical Strike gear, the return from Combat Training is pretty minor thanks to diminishing returns - though it is still something. Brush It Off is a decent option if you don't want Combat Training at all. Deadly Aim gives a fantastic return, and is typically considered the most important part of the DEX Tree. Expose Weakness is also great for anyone with rapid attacks. You can get pretty solid Dodge/Avoid from gear, which pushes anything you would get from Evasion and Quick Reflexes into diminishing returns.
    Vindicator Tree Notes
    The build excels at single-target damage, so I found room for Focused Strikes.

    I believe I'm going to swap Vindicator for Warden. Slaughter and Upper Hand seem like they would fit my plan better. (see below)
    Brawler Tree looks fine. You hit the main points there - Penetrating Strikes, Ruthless, and Setup. It's also worth mentioning that, despite the in-game listing, Frenzy doesn't count as a Combo attack. Fortunately, Shred still does.

    Shred->Shred->Shred->Massacre is my basic plan for a single target attack sequence. Shred will cause Bleed, and it will trigger Set Up, as well as apply Shredded. With Blood Mess on Massacre, that attack is going to hit HARD. Shred is also going to build stacks of Enrage.

    +20% damage from Set up, Enrage stacks, +30% from Blood Mess advantage. Plus I can charge it and have a pretty good chance of it critting? Yeah, that's gonna hurt.

    As a CoH scrapper player, I still think in terms of attack chain efficiency. 3xShred->Massacre is going to be about the best single target chain I can put together, plus it will likely trigger Supernatural Power at some point to keep my energy up.

    I can also alternate Massacre with Devour Essence in a long boss fight to keep my health up (+150% healing against Bleeding targets with Phlebotomist advantage). With that in mind, I'm leaning toward Aspect of the Bestial over Form of the Swordsman, because Enraged will benefit me more than Focus will. Focus does nothing for any of my powers, while a couple of them are affected by Enrage.

    My basic combat plan is: Void Shift to my target, hit with Frenzy to take advantage of the extra damage from it being Feared, then 3xShred into Massacre. And then repeat with my next target because that will probably kill most things. I'm also going to have my Shadows out a lot of the time too. Grasping Shadows is mostly for concept and flavor, but I can envision scenarios where it will come in handy. Need to stall a big group while I finish off an opponent? Fear+Paralyze should do nicely.


    Thanks for the input!

    My build looks more like this now:


    PowerHouse (Link to this build)

    Name:

    Archetype: Freeform

    Super Stats:
    Level 6: Dexterity (Primary)
    Level 10: Strength (Secondary)
    Level 15: Intelligence (Secondary)

    Talents:
    Level 1: The Fist
    Level 6: Agile
    Level 9: Mighty
    Level 12: Brilliant
    Level 15: Coordinated
    Level 18: Body and Mind
    Level 21: Healthy Mind

    Powers:
    Level 1: Bestial Fury (Rip and Tear)
    Level 1: Shred (Rank 2, Penetrating Strikes)
    Level 6: Frenzy (Rank 2, Fear Sense)
    Level 8: Void Shift (Emerging Nightmares)
    Level 11: Way of the Warrior (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 14: Ebon Void (Voracious Darkness)
    Level 17: Shadow Shroud (Terrifying Visage)
    Level 20: Devour Essence (Rank 2, Phlebotomist)
    Level 23: Form of the Master
    Level 26: Supernatural Power
    Level 29: Dark Transfusion (Blood Sacrifice)
    Level 32: Grasping Shadows (Unyielding Agony)
    Level 35: Massacre (Rank 2, Blood Mess)
    Level 38: Summon Shadows (Rank 2, Devouring Darkness)

    Travel Powers:
    Level 6: Athletics (Rank 2)
    Level 35: Shadow Wings

    Specializations:
    Dexterity: Combat Training (3/3)
    Dexterity: Gear Utilization (2/3)
    Dexterity: Evasion (1/2)
    Dexterity: Deadly Aim (3/3)
    Dexterity: Quick Reflexes (1/3)
    Brawler: No Escape (1/3)
    Brawler: Penetrating Strikes (2/2)
    Brawler: Ruthless (2/2)
    Brawler: Finishing Blow (1/3)
    Brawler: Setup (2/2)
    Brawler: Offensive Expertise (2/2)
    Warden: Slaughter (3/3)
    Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
    Warden: Reactive Strikes (2/2)
    Warden: Upper Hand (3/3)
    Mastery: Dexterity Mastery (1/1)
  • clawsandeffectclawsandeffect Posts: 155 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Changed from Dex to Str. This is so I could add Unleashed Rage, which does a lot more damage than the MA Ultimate.

    The rest is just to add extra surviability and maximize damage.

    You dropped a couple powers that were important to my concept, but otherwise I like it.

    Might have that on deck as an alternate build.

    I'm not a pure powergamer. I'll min/max quite a bit, but I'll only do so within the boundaries of my concept. For example, I'm aware that I could take Reaper's Embrace and deal a lot of damage by rupturing, but wielding a sword doesn't fit my concept at all, so I won't do it.

    Summon Shadows and Grasping Shadows are incredibly important to keep the theme of my character intact (and from what I hear, Summon Shadows does pretty decent damage too). I know I could have something more powerful in their place, but concept trumps pure power in this case.

    I considered going with Strength as my primary SS, but I like the idea of being elusive rather than just tough. Crits and Bleeds are going to be my main damage boosters, and as my last response illustrates, I have a plan for how I'm going to go about dealing single target damage.

    Thanks for the input, it's always nice to have another perspective when building a character.
  • kaiserin#0958 kaiserin Posts: 3,224 Cryptic Developer
    edited June 2013
    Shred is all you really need for bleeds, and Massacre now refreshes bleed. You can save your advantage points on your eb.

    If your crit severity is around 100% drop Bloody Mess. It does not work they way you think it works. It adds to your severity layer, not the base, and is outpaced by R3.

    For a form I'd suggest Enrage, it's much more beneficial to bestial than AotB as you will get the energy trigger off of using Massacre.
  • clawsandeffectclawsandeffect Posts: 155 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    kaizerin wrote: »
    Shred is all you really need for bleeds, and Massacre now refreshes bleed. You can save your advantage points on your eb.

    Good to know. Didn't know about Massacre refreshing Bleeds. I'll probably keep the advantage points in my EB for the early levels and retcon them out when my build matures.
    If your crit severity is around 100% drop Bloody Mess. It does not work they way you think it works. It adds to your severity layer, not the base, and is outpaced by R3.

    I'll look into that, the wiki is misleading if it works the way you say it does. Might still be beneficial, I'll decide if those points would be better used elsewhere.
    For a form I'd suggest Enrage, it's much more beneficial to bestial than AotB as you will get the energy trigger off of using Massacre.


    Why would Enrage be better?

    It adds stacks of Enrage when I attempt to Knock an opponent, while AotB adds stacks when I apply a Bleed.

    I will be applying Bleed MUCH more often than I will be Knocking anything. Running my proposed chain of Shred-Shred-Shred-Massacre I will potentially be adding 3 stacks of Enrage, using Knocks to trigger it I will only get one stack out of the same chain.

    If it works how I think it will, I should be able to maintain 6-8 stacks of Enrage anytime I'm in a fight for longer than 2 attack chains (which is virtually guaranteed, since I don't have much AoE at all)

    Stacking with Knocks will take me much longer to build up than with Bleeds.
  • clawsandeffectclawsandeffect Posts: 155 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Tweaked my build using some of the suggestions made.

    Looks like this now:


    PowerHouse (Link to this build)

    Name:

    Archetype: Freeform

    Super Stats:
    Level 6: Strength (Primary)
    Level 10: Dexterity (Secondary)
    Level 15: Intelligence (Secondary)

    Talents:
    Level 1: The Fist
    Level 6: Martial Focus
    Level 9: Coordinated
    Level 12: Covert Ops Training
    Level 15: Mighty
    Level 18: Agile
    Level 21: Brilliant

    Powers:
    Level 1: Bestial Fury (Rip and Tear)
    Level 1: Shred (Rank 2, Penetrating Strikes)
    Level 6: Frenzy (Fear Sense)
    Level 8: Aspect of the Bestial (Rank 2)
    Level 11: Way of the Warrior (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 14: Supernatural Power
    Level 17: Massacre (Rank 2, Blood Mess)
    Level 20: Void Shift (Emerging Nightmares)
    Level 23: Ebon Void (Rank 2, Voracious Darkness)
    Level 26: Devour Essence (Phlebotomist)
    Level 29: Shadow Shroud (Terrifying Visage)
    Level 32: Void Horror (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 35: Rebirth
    Level 38: Fury of the Dragon (Rank 2, Real Ultimate Power)

    Travel Powers:
    Level 6: Acrobatics (Rank 2)
    Level 35:

    Specializations:
    Strength: Swole (2/3)
    Strength: Physical Peak (3/3)
    Strength: Brutality (2/2)
    Strength: Overpower (3/3)
    Brawler: No Escape (2/3)
    Brawler: Penetrating Strikes (2/2)
    Brawler: Ruthless (2/2)
    Brawler: Setup (2/2)
    Brawler: Offensive Expertise (2/2)
    Warden: Slaughter (3/3)
    Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
    Warden: Reactive Strikes (1/2)
    Warden: Tenacious (1/2)
    Warden: Upper Hand (3/3)
    Mastery: Strength Mastery (1/1)
  • carrionbaggagecarrionbaggage Posts: 731 Community Moderator
    edited June 2013
    Running my proposed chain of Shred-Shred-Shred-Massacre I will potentially be adding 3 stacks of Enrage, using Knocks to trigger it I will only get one stack out of the same chain.

    That's an interesting point. Enrage (the power) is subject to a 4-second internal cooldown between stacks, no matter how often you knock. Aspect of the Bestial, for some reason, doesn't have any cooldown. Go figure.

    Question Time!
    Can anyone verify how Upper Hand works? Does its damage bonus multiply your total damage, or does the bonus just add to your other +% bonuses?
  • clawsandeffectclawsandeffect Posts: 155 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Question Time!
    Can anyone verify how Upper Hand works? Does its damage bonus multiply your total damage, or does the bonus just add to your other +% bonuses?

    Most likely a straight addition.

    If it multiplied it, that would be horribly broken, and people would be exploiting the hell out of it by now. Massive damage power landing a critical, and then multiplied by 6 if the target meets those conditions? No way that wouldn't be exploited, especially in PvP matches.

    Since it doesn't seem to be exploited, I assume it is a straight addition of 6% damage.
  • kaiserin#0958 kaiserin Posts: 3,224 Cryptic Developer
    edited June 2013
    Maintaining rage is not something you put much thought into as it's extraordinarily easy to keep up 8 stacks in and out of combat if you have any sort of method to apply stacks. The duration is quite long.

    If your intent is to be a heavy damage dealer, Massacre is what you want to be pressing the most. I suggest Enrage because even if it's subject to an internal cooldown (this isn't as big a deal as some people make it out) you are gaining energy when using Massacre, which will benefit you much more than gaining it on shred.

    Adrenaline Rush is also on Enrage, although it wouldn't benefit you much without Con as a stat. It's a very good self heal though.

    I would suggest changing up your attack chain as you won't need to use Shred much after you've gotten shredded and 5 bleeds down. Massacre will keep all the bleeds refreshed and shredded has a 12 second duration.


    Fury of the Dragon scales off of Focus stacks. The damage will be next to nothing without them. Real Ultimate power is fairly trivial with your other method to apply bleed.

    Some visual data on Massacre R3 vs Bloody mess. This is taken on a character with 99.6% severity and 46% crit, 8 rage stacks. Shredded and one bleed stack on the test dummy.

    R3:
    m_r3.jpg

    Bloody Mess:
    m_bm.jpg

    Very slight difference, but R3 comes out ahead. This gap only gets wider the more crit and severity you have.
  • kallethenkallethen Posts: 1,576 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Hmmm.... That's good to know in the future Kaizerin. I'm guessing then my Shroudclaw character would be better off with R3 Massacre.

    Though I'm not sure a retcon would be worth the slight difference to my build now...
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  • clawsandeffectclawsandeffect Posts: 155 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    kaizerin wrote: »
    Fury of the Dragon scales off of Focus stacks. The damage will be next to nothing without them. Real Ultimate power is fairly trivial with your other method to apply bleed.

    Okay. That was kind of a throwaway power anyway. I'll probably put Grasping Shadows back into my build in its place. My latest build lost some of the dark powers that were important to my theme. I'd love to use a Darkness AoE damage power of some kind, but my Ego isn't going to be high enough to make it worthwhile. Grasping Shadows is for the paralyze and fear more than the DoT.
    Some visual data on Massacre R3 vs Bloody mess. This is taken on a character with 99.6% severity and 46% crit, 8 rage stacks. Shredded and one bleed stack on the test dummy.

    Very slight difference, but R3 comes out ahead. This gap only gets wider the more crit and severity you have.

    Probably go with R3 then.

    But I'm going to stick with Aspect of the Bestial, at least for now. Once I have the chance to test it for myself and see which I like better I'll make a final decision on it. I'm not a Gold member yet, so this is all theorycrafting at this point (probably going Gold when I get paid this week)
  • kaiserin#0958 kaiserin Posts: 3,224 Cryptic Developer
    edited June 2013
    Okay. That was kind of a throwaway power anyway. I'll probably put Grasping Shadows back into my build in its place. My latest build lost some of the dark powers that were important to my theme. I'd love to use a Darkness AoE damage power of some kind, but my Ego isn't going to be high enough to make it worthwhile. Grasping Shadows is for the paralyze and fear more than the DoT.

    Ego is not mandatory for ranged attacks, it provides very little for damage in the grand scheme of things. If you want a ranged aoe go for it, the damage will be fine.
  • clawsandeffectclawsandeffect Posts: 155 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Latest version:

    PowerHouse (Link to this build)

    Name:

    Archetype: Freeform

    Super Stats:
    Level 6: Strength (Primary)
    Level 10: Dexterity (Secondary)
    Level 15: Intelligence (Secondary)

    Talents:
    Level 1: The Fist
    Level 6: Martial Focus
    Level 9: Coordinated
    Level 12: Covert Ops Training
    Level 15: Mighty
    Level 18: Agile
    Level 21: Brilliant

    Powers:
    Level 1: Bestial Fury
    Level 1: Shred (Rank 2, Penetrating Strikes)
    Level 6: Frenzy (Rank 2, Fear Sense)
    Level 8: Aspect of the Bestial
    Level 11: Way of the Warrior (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 14: Supernatural Power
    Level 17: Massacre (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 20: Void Shift (Rank 2, Emerging Nightmares)
    Level 23: Ebon Void (Rank 2, Voracious Darkness)
    Level 26: Devour Essence (Phlebotomist)
    Level 29: Shadow Shroud (Terrifying Visage)
    Level 32: Grasping Shadows (Rank 2, Unyielding Agony)
    Level 35: Void Horror (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 38: Rebirth

    Travel Powers:
    Level 6: Acrobatics
    Level 35: Shadow Wings

    Specializations:
    Strength: Swole (2/3)
    Strength: Physical Peak (3/3)
    Strength: Brutality (2/2)
    Strength: Overpower (3/3)
    Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
    Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
    Vindicator: The Rush of Battle (2/3)
    Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
    Warden: Slaughter (3/3)
    Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
    Warden: Tenacious (2/2)
    Warden: Upper Hand (3/3)
    Mastery: Strength Mastery (1/1)
  • carrionbaggagecarrionbaggage Posts: 731 Community Moderator
    edited June 2013
    Ranking-up Void Shift (or any other lunge) yields an extremely minor return, even if you use it often to apply Fear. I would move those points into Rank 2 Devour Essence, as its healing return scales with rank. You're squishy enough that Devour Essence is going to be used frequently.

    Rank 2 Grasping Shadows is also of little benefit in this build. Paralyzes have "health", which you will deplete very quickly when you attack the controlled enemy. Once you start scratching, you'll break your own hold. Grasping Shadows can be a useful alpha-strike for you, but you won't notice the extra couple seconds you get from Rank 2. Instead, I would use those points to get a travel power to Rank 3 (Acrobatics would be my choice).

    The exception to the "Rank 3 travel power" recommendation is if you plan to purchase/farm the Dark Speed device...but you shouldn't worry about that yet.

    Warden Tree
    Decent level 40 gear should give you at least 80 Defense, so I would move the 2 points from Tenacious to The Best Defense. It will give you a permanent +50 Offense instead of a conditional +50 Offense.

    I'm not sure exactly what your final cost reduction will be, but I would squeeze in enough Recovery via talents to allow you to fire Grasping Shadows from resting equilibrium. You can wait to figure this out (and make The Best Defense switch) with a retcon at higher levels...it's just something to keep in mind.
  • clawsandeffectclawsandeffect Posts: 155 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Rank 2 Grasping Shadows is also of little benefit in this build. Paralyzes have "health", which you will deplete very quickly when you attack the controlled enemy. Once you start scratching, you'll break your own hold. Grasping Shadows can be a useful alpha-strike for you, but you won't notice the extra couple seconds you get from Rank 2. Instead, I would use those points to get a travel power to Rank 3 (Acrobatics would be my choice).

    I disagree. The DoT from the advantage on this power doesn't break it (or isn't supposed to at least), and it will be used to control enemies I'm not actively fighting. Since my build is mostly single target oriented, enemies will stay put until I'm ready to deal with them, one at a time.

    I used the same tactic with Siren's Song on my Sonic blaster in CoH, sleep them and kill em off one at a time to cut down the amount of incoming damage. Of course I also had 2 single target stuns with him too, I went entire missions without ever being targeted, much less attacked. (Too bad there's no way to replicate him here)

    Since they will be feared as well, I will probably hit them with Frenzy a couple seconds before the paralyze is going to wear off anyway. Those extra couple seconds could be the difference between fighting them at my leisure and having a mob to deal with I'm not prepared to take on. I'm actually trying to decide if I want to make it rank 3 or leave the DoT on it.

    After I actually use it, I might change my mind. But for now I'm going to plan it that way.

    Warden Tree
    Decent level 40 gear should give you at least 80 Defense, so I would move the 2 points from Tenacious to The Best Defense. It will give you a permanent +50 Offense instead of a conditional +50 Offense.

    I'm not sure exactly what your final cost reduction will be, but I would squeeze in enough Recovery via talents to allow you to fire Grasping Shadows from resting equilibrium. You can wait to figure this out (and make The Best Defense switch) with a retcon at higher levels...it's just something to keep in mind.

    Good to know. I'll be keeping it in mind for sure.

    One question though: Do specializations that add defense based on offense, and offense based on defense end up buffing each other if you have both?

    The Best Defense and Aggressive Stance are what I'm looking at. Do they end up buffing each other in a paradoxical way? Like a chain of buffing.

    Aggressive Stance raises defense by offense amount, which increases the amount Best Defense buffs offense, which in turn buffs defense again with Aggressive Stance, which buffs offense from Best Defense, and so on.
  • carrionbaggagecarrionbaggage Posts: 731 Community Moderator
    edited June 2013
    The Best Defense and Aggressive Stance are what I'm looking at. Do they end up buffing each other in a paradoxical way? Like a chain of buffing.

    Yes they do. It's an excellent combo, especially if the spec tree for your primary superstat is able to boost Defense/Offense as well.
  • clawsandeffectclawsandeffect Posts: 155 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Okay, I took your advice, and I think this will be the final version of my build plan.

    Of course, it is still subject to change upon actually seeing how the powers synergize.

    Decided to swap my energy builder for a ranged one, namely Shadow Bolts with the fear advantage. That way I won't find myself getting pummeled from range with no energy to lunge with. Required some swapping around of powers.

    I also dropped the controlled pet in favor of the uncontrolled pet. Don't want my energy use neutered by a pet that I don't want to micromanage anyway.

    Here goes:

    PowerHouse (Link to this build)

    Name:

    Archetype: Freeform

    Super Stats:
    Level 6: Strength (Primary)
    Level 10: Dexterity (Secondary)
    Level 15: Intelligence (Secondary)

    Talents:
    Level 1: Sureshot
    Level 6: Mighty
    Level 9: Agile
    Level 12: Brilliant
    Level 15: Negotiator
    Level 18: Field Ops Training
    Level 21: Paramilitary Training

    Powers:
    Level 1: Shadow Bolt (Despondency)
    Level 1: Shred (Rank 2, Penetrating Strikes)
    Level 6: Frenzy (Rank 2, Fear Sense)
    Level 8: Void Shift (Emerging Nightmares)
    Level 11: Way of the Warrior (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 14: Supernatural Power
    Level 17: Aspect of the Bestial
    Level 20: Ebon Void (Rank 2, Voracious Darkness)
    Level 23: Massacre (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 26: Devour Essence (Rank 2, Phlebotomist)
    Level 29: Shadow Shroud (Terrifying Visage)
    Level 32: Grasping Shadows
    Level 35: Summon Shadows (Rank 2, Devouring Darkness)
    Level 38: Rebirth

    Travel Powers:
    Level 6: Acrobatics (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 35: Shadow Wings (Rank 2)

    Specializations:
    Strength: Swole (2/3)
    Strength: Physical Peak (3/3)
    Strength: Brutality (2/2)
    Strength: Overpower (3/3)
    Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
    Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
    Vindicator: The Rush of Battle (2/3)
    Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
    Warden: Slaughter (3/3)
    Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
    Warden: Tenacious (2/2)
    Warden: Upper Hand (3/3)
    Mastery: Strength Mastery (1/1)
  • kaiserin#0958 kaiserin Posts: 3,224 Cryptic Developer
    edited June 2013
    Melee energy builders build energy at a range too :p It's just reduced.

    Also lunges are practically free in cost.
  • clawsandeffectclawsandeffect Posts: 155 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    kaizerin wrote: »
    Melee energy builders build energy at a range too :p It's just reduced.

    Also lunges are practically free in cost.

    Was more looking at the chance to cause Fear being more useful in the early levels than the chance to cause Bleed. And if I'm already right on top of them I don't need to lunge to nowhere to trigger the bonus damage on Frenzy.

    Out of any ranged energy builder I could have picked, Shadow Bolts both fits the theme and has a useful side effect.
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