Less known names should be usable

rugrothrumbor · June 2013

I had an idea for a character named "Speed Demon," but apparently I can't use that name.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_Demon_%28comics%29

I mean what in the name of holy hell are these obscure characters unusable as well? Is Marvel selling merchandise on Speed Demon? Hardly any if you asked me.

Enough is enough, we should be able to use at least obscure names. I had no idea this character existed to be fair.

epelesker · June 2013

I don't think that's likely to happen. Even characters from mainstream companies that aren't as well known or haven't seen print for a while still exist. The name filter gives respect to the fact that they might be used again in the future.

There's probably tons of other, similar names you could use, so give it a try!

sistersilicon · June 2013

Unfortunately, intellectual property lawyers are feral, and prone to acts of vicious and indiscriminate litigation. More unfortunately, Marvel and DC employ vast armies of them.

jorifice1 · June 2013

The problem, of course, is that just about EVERY SINGLE NAME IMAGINABLE has been trademarked by SOMEONE. Take for instance, my latest toon, The Supreme Technovore. I had assumed that nobody would have THAT name. Wrong! Technovore is a Trademarked Villein in the Marvel Universe. They even made and animated feature using him. The Great Cosmic Oddity? Taken! The Deep Fried Twinkie? Hostess. Mr. Mortimer? No luck. Dr. Baddass? What do you think? Boomerang-Pendek? The Tick had Baby Boomerang-utang. I THINK The Gigaturtle might be safe. And I haven't found anyone named Alky The Angry Drunken Clown just yet.
Of course, all of the Champions' names are also used by the Big Two. And I think Gigaton shows up in both major houses.

roughbearmattach · June 2013

Character names fall under trademark law, not copyright law. Rather than filing for a copyright and getting a certain amount of years for it, a trademark must be rigorously defended to keep it valid.

In other words, "use it or lose it". Therefore, all sorts of minor characters have trademarks that the game respects, because otherwise, Marvel/DC would threaten CO with lawsuits again. The main reason for those suits would be to demonstrate defending their trademarks. They don't even have to go to court.

towershield · June 2013

rugrothrumbor wrote: »

I had an idea for a character named "Speed Demon," but apparently I can't use that name.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_Demon_%28comics%29

I mean what in the name of holy hell are these obscure characters unusable as well? Is Marvel selling merchandise on Speed Demon? Hardly any if you asked me.

Enough is enough, we should be able to use at least obscure names. I had no idea this character existed to be fair.

Speed Demon is kinda front and center these days in the Superior Spider-Man books, being part of the new Sinister Six and all.

snoggymack22 · June 2013

rugrothrumbor wrote: »

I had an idea for a character named "Speed Demon," but apparently I can't use that name.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_Demon_%28comics%29

I mean what in the name of holy hell are these obscure characters unusable as well? Is Marvel selling merchandise on Speed Demon? Hardly any if you asked me.

Enough is enough, we should be able to use at least obscure names. I had no idea this character existed to be fair.

A member of Squadron Sinister isn't exactly "obscure" but the wiki link you provided already demonstrates why this isn't an issue. DC has a Speed Demon too.

kojirohellfire · June 2013

Try Speed Devil or Speed Daemon.

flyingfinn · June 2013

XxSp33d D3m0n4587xX usually works...

rugrothrumbor · June 2013

These are all the reasons why this should not be a "superhero" mmorpg. It should be a nameless kind that doesn't fall under superhero, fantasy or anything. Speed Demon does not belong to Marvel or DC it's a slang term for people that is always rushing. These things matter. We also can't use most mythological names like Thor for instance even if we have a completely different idea for the character. To avoid that monopolization stop making it a superhero mmorpg.

kojirohellfire · June 2013

And a "batman" is a soldier assigned to an officer as a personal assistant. That doesn't make it also any less of a trademarked costumed crimefighter that prowls the nights of Gotham City.

rugrothrumbor · June 2013

Yeah exactly. If I wanted to make a baseball player who fights Argent agents that were using him to make money and he fights with a bat and call him Batman I should be able to.

kojirohellfire · June 2013

rugrothrumbor wrote: »

Yeah exactly. If I wanted to make a baseball player who fights Argent agents that were using him to make money and he fights with a bat and call him Batman I should be able to.

rugrothrumbor · June 2013

Might want to re-evaluate on that example, Batman is a well known name and character. However Speed Demon is not. Go ask anyone out on the street if they know who Speed Demon is and then ask them if they know Batman. So there is every bit of a reason for that to not be allowed even if this wasn't a superhero mmorpg.

kojirohellfire · June 2013

Ask the average person on the street about Martian Manhunter and I bet they don't know who he is either, but he's just as likely to be barred by the filter as Speed Demon is. And you might want to consider that if you're running afoul of the filter that you're not being creative enough.

rugrothrumbor · June 2013

The thing is I wasn't sure what you were getting at with that comment. And not being creative wasn't the thing. Names like Ironman, Speed Demon etc. all have a special stigma to it that isn't related to superhero stuff. I had an idea of a guy with exceptional athleticism to be called Ironman. That term Ironman refers to the Ironman Championship and the word Ironman has been used in other occasions referring to sports and gym. You see that word has a stigmatism that I like and I would replace it with other words but I'm using those for other characters. The Marvel Ironman violates that stigma and at the least I don't want that to be in the way of this game.

I tried Iron Champion but that name has an empty meaning.

ashensnow · June 2013

rugrothrumbor wrote: »

The thing is I wasn't sure what you were getting at with that comment. And not being creative wasn't the thing. Names like Ironman, Speed Demon etc. all have a special stigma to it that isn't related to superhero stuff. I had an idea of a guy with exceptional athleticism to be called Ironman. That term Ironman refers to the Ironman Championship and the word Ironman has been used in other occasions referring to sports and gym. You see that word has a stigmatism that I like and I would replace it with other words but I'm using those for other characters. The Marvel Ironman violates that stigma and at the least I don't want that to be in the way of this game.

You give examples of other venues where Ironman has been used, yet the discussion is actually about using an existing comic book character's name in a comic book-like media.

You are not talking about using Speed-Demon as a term in a non comic book environment, you are talking about using it in a comic book setting that was heavily influenced by the very setting where the established character exists.

kojirohellfire · June 2013

You also tried naming a character Ironman? Seriously?

Were you also planning a ranged ice character called Iceman or a tank named Colossus? :rolleyes:

You've just proven my point about not being creative enough.

rugrothrumbor · June 2013

Did you not read about what I was talking about with stigmaticism? Seriously?

I was trying to make a character based on the Colossus of Rhodes not the Marvel character (thankfully I could call him Colossus of Rhodes). And I haven't thought up of Iceman I guess that would relate to a prehistoric man of some sort but yeah.

The fact that I really do delve into the actual meaning of these words would say I'm pretty creative. So yeah.

ashensnow wrote: »

You give examples of other venues where Ironman has been used, yet the discussion is actually about using an existing comic book character's name in a comic book-like media.

You are not talking about using Speed-Demon as a term in a non comic book environment, you are talking about using it in a comic book setting that was heavily influenced by the very setting where the established character exists.

The thing is I expound my imagination in a game that has really good customization like this one. Trying to make my characters in a game that is limited say like NWO would not work. I only have 3 or 4 characters that are based on a superhero relief.

selphea · June 2013

Could call the character Velocity Devil maybe?

biffsmackwell · June 2013

Hey try it with a hyphen like Ashen did. Might work.

But yeah, the naming filter can be weird sometimes. I wanted a cosmically powered hero and I wanted to use the name Hyperion. Couldn't do it. To my surprise, there's already a character named Hyperion in Marvel comics.

So... I ended up naming him Nova. :rolleyes:

kojirohellfire · June 2013

rugrothrumbor wrote: »

Did you not read about what I was talking about with stigmaticism? Seriously?

Stigma nothing, you know full well that Iron Man is a well-established, trademarked superhero. Of all characters barred by the filter, he should be one of the obvious ones. I think you need to break out the thesaurus if you're having that hard of a time coming up with an original name.

Otherwise you sound like "wah wah wah i wanna be named wolverine it's a common animal after all waaaah!"

rugrothrumbor · June 2013

Oh look I was trying to put some sense into a 12 year old troll. Sigh, well I guess I wasted my time with you. I mean if I wanted to remake the characters how come I wasn't using names like Spiderman or Pyro. Because those have no stigma whatsoever and I make my own characters thank you very much.

biffsmackwell wrote: »

Hey try it with a hyphen like Ashen did. Might work.

But yeah, the naming filter can be weird sometimes. I wanted a cosmically powered hero and I wanted to use the name Hyperion. Couldn't do it. To my surprise, there's already a character named Hyperion in Marvel comics.

So... I ended up naming him Nova. :rolleyes:

Lame since Marvel/DC doesn't own Greece/Rome/Etruscan.

biffsmackwell · June 2013

kojirohellfire wrote: »

Stigma nothing, you know full well that Iron Man is a well-established, trademarked superhero. Of all characters barred by the filter, he should be one of the obvious ones. I think you need to break out the thesaurus if you're having that hard of a time coming up with an original name.

Otherwise you sound like "wah wah wah i wanna be named wolverine it's a common animal after all waaaah!"

To be honest I think he has a point. It's not about being lazy or unimaginative, it's about having a name in mind that perfectly fits your character's concept - regardless of whoever made that character first. As long as the name doesn't match the costume or background of an established character, you should be able to take whatever name you want.

If I had an idea of a giant stone statue that came to life and I wanted to call him Colossus, what should stop me? He's not a metal Russian man who likes to paint and is in love with a stupid ghost lady, is he?

The other side of the argument is that "It'll allow people to make trademarked characters and Cryptic will get sued again." Sure, but guess what? People have been remaking trademarked characters since day one, and they do it to this day. Don't tell me that a giant green man in purple shorts named Hulkk isn't violating a trademark just because of that extra K. A trademark violation is a trademark violation, and a giant stone man named Colossus is not it. Disallowing names does not stop people from violating trademark rules. It's a fact.

biffsmackwell · June 2013

rugrothrumbor wrote: »

Lame since Marvel/DC doesn't own Greece/Rome/Etruscan.

But they do have a trademark on Nova, and he's not some obscure character. The list is wacky.

draogn · June 2013

Should is a funny word, there are plenty of things we feel should happen, but often things don't work how we feel they should. Just because a hero isn't as well known as someone like Batman, does not exclude them from copyright/trademark rules. It is still important for PW/Cryptic to protect itself against lawsuits. I'm guessing this is why the filter is as strict as it is.

jaazaniah1 · June 2013

I used "Speed Daemon"and had no trouble :biggrin:

jorifice1 · June 2013

Glad you got it to work!
This means that I can keep my suggestion for a work around (Imp-Pulse) for myself

:cool:

flamingbunnyman · June 2013

Go talk to Kinetik some time, and you might notice that speedsters occasionally have a problem with talking too fast. So, hiw about "Speedemon"?

iamtherockit · June 2013

flamingbunnyman wrote: »

Go talk to Kinetik some time, and you might notice that speedsters occasionally have a problem with talking too fast. So, hiw about "Speedemon"?

I created a toon with the same name filter issue mentioned above and my solution was indeed just "Speedemon". It works for me.

sockmunkey · June 2013

It seems so hit and miss. Some get blocked some don't. There seems very little rhyme or reason to it.

My own main character is named Cloak. I wanted a hooded mysterious magic-user who ran around in a big cloak. You don't need a mask when you got a shadowy hood and cloak always around you.

I didn't even know at the time that there was a Marvel Cloak. I learned of this quickly, however, from all of the interesting comments id get. "Where is Dagger?" Seemed to be the most popular. I never even heard of the character, but considering the comments, I can only assume he must be quite popular. The funny thing is, my character is more inspired from DC's Raven then anything to do with the marvel character.

It just seemed a nifty name that worked with the character. Why that name is open while lesser know characters are not. Makes the whole restricted system seem arbitrary.

roughbearmattach · June 2013

One of the best ways for artists to explore creativity is to be given limits and requirements. These cause the artist to create solutions that an unrestricted blank canvas might not have suggested.

atring · June 2013

I would point out that there is nothing inherently creative in "whipping out the thesaurus." Unless you're trying to find a silly way to get "random d!@k" past the filter, the results are mostly nonsense. While there is a certain charm to "Ferrous Hominid" (I picture a steampunk version of Iron Man with a monocle), it's not so helpful.

Given enough creativity, the filter is less than an annoyance. Even with my alt-itis, I have never had a name rejected by the filter.

crypticbuxom · June 2013

Its not about making lesser known names available. Its about letting generic words be used. If I was making a literal holy angel I'd like to call them angel. But when I make them look like a certain hero (who is arguably generically unoriginal) that is when you shouldn't. I can't even use names where the word is in the middle of a few words that make up a Name.

Winter Angel

Arch Angel Sentry

Can't even use these to name my costumes.

snoggymack22 · June 2013

rugrothrumbor wrote: »

Yeah exactly. If I wanted to make a baseball player who fights Argent agents that were using him to make money and he fights with a bat and call him Batman I should be able to.

You probably could do exactly that and call him Batsman.

snoggymack22 · June 2013

rugrothrumbor wrote: »

I had an idea of a guy with exceptional athleticism to be called Ironman. That term Ironman refers to the Ironman Championship

You'd be violating the Ironman Championship's IP rights if you did that.

snoggymack22 · June 2013

kojirohellfire wrote: »

Were you also planning a ranged ice character called Iceman

A vehicle pilot who was so cool under fire that everyone says he had ice in his veins. He's also a bit of an arrogant annoying person. And plays beach volleyball in his spare time. His arch nemesis would have been some guy named Maverick I was thinking.

snoggymack22 · June 2013

rugrothrumbor wrote: »

Lame since Marvel/DC doesn't own Greece/Rome/Etruscan.

Hyperion is property of the Globe Theater. You don't want to mess with Shakespeare's lawyers. They take a pound of your flesh yo!

jonsills · June 2013

snoggymack22 wrote: »

Hyperion is property of the Globe Theater. You don't want to mess with Shakespeare's lawyers. They take a pound of your flesh yo!

And Will help you if you don't specify first which pound...

ashensnow · June 2013

rugrothrumbor wrote: »

The thing is I expound my imagination in a game that has really good customization like this one. Trying to make my characters in a game that is limited say like NWO would not work. I only have 3 or 4 characters that are based on a superhero relief.

This is one my favorite aspects of the superhero genre, it has room for just about anything, even non superhero genre characters.

The problem you are running into is that it doesn't matter that you specifically are not aiming for the superhero genre with your characters. The setting is superhero so Cryptic has to base their decisions on the assumption that characters created for the game are being designed to fill the role of superhero in a comic book superhero setting.

The reality of the matter is that, were this not a superhero game, many of the words, mythological names, etc that are prohibited now would not be. It is not an unreasonable precaution to prohibit a character named Ironman in the context of a superhero game derived or inspired in no small part from or by the Marvel setting.

This isnt the man keeping you down. This is the private owners of a private property deciding, for their own reasons, not to allow certain things on their property.

That said, I completely support your approach of asking for something that you, as a customer, desire, without resorting to excessive hyperbole, name calling, etc.

kojirohellfire · June 2013

rugrothrumbor wrote: »

Oh look I was trying to put some sense into a 12 year old troll.

Really? You're upset that I point out that you're not being original and insult me? It would seem to me that you're the 12-year old troll.

"I tried making a character name Ironman," honestly. :rolleyes:

jonsills · June 2013

atring wrote: »

While there is a certain charm to "Ferrous Hominid" (I picture a steampunk version of Iron Man with a monocle), it's not so helpful.

Oh, I don't know about that. This sentence alone inspired me to make a red-and-gold modified-steampunk powered armor suit named "Ferrous Gentleman" (originally designed by computing pioneer Charles Babbage; unfortunately, the technology of the time wasn't up to making his "Ferrous Device for the Enforcement of Law", but his descendant James Babbage found the design and a few prototypes and was able to build the modern version).

Sadly, in the process I also found Baatman (yes, a Batman costume, and not even one of the better ones), and Cyclops (definitely an imitation of the X-Man Cyclops in his '90s gear, but why pick the Mind as his AT?). Don't copy, folks - find inspiration for your own version instead!

chalupaoffury · June 2013

rugrothrumbor wrote: »

These are all the reasons why this should not be a "superhero" mmorpg. It should be a nameless kind that doesn't fall under superhero, fantasy or anything. Speed Demon does not belong to Marvel or DC it's a slang term for people that is always rushing. These things matter. We also can't use most mythological names like Thor for instance even if we have a completely different idea for the character. To avoid that monopolization stop making it a superhero mmorpg.

Maybe something vehicle based? I hear those are all the rage these days.

Less known names should be usable

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