Is this even possible in Champions?

rileymarks1 · June 2013

Ok I figured I'd post this question here before I wasted another $10 on a respect. Is there even a way to create a force/wind dps toon that has pretty good damage and survivability that does not rely on extra powers to make it work?

For example, I don't want to take a power that has a short cooldown just to fuel MSA. I'd rather have an energy unlock that worked by itself based on my normal attacks and gameplay. I want to activate something like conviction ONLY because I need healing...etc..

Also I don't want to have to trigger extra powers (such as active offense and defense) at the start of a battle just to survive. Same thing goes with energy management. I would like to start my attack run with Typhoon, not something to build my energy up so I can unleash Typhoon. I'm basically looking for a simple, nonstrategic, build that allows me to kill a mob fairly quickly without constantly being on the verge of dying.

I have been scouring the forums on force and wind builds, but so far each of them seems to follow the same pattern of requiring the offense and defense forms. Now don't get me wrong...I don't mind using those in a big fight with a major boss, but in a normal mob with even a little bit of extra agro I don't want to use them.

Is all this even possible? I know there are plenty of FOTM builds and overpowered builds, but I am not interested in those. I don't need to tank Vilkorin on elite or anything. I just don't want to have to think about strategy for mobs and I don't want to take forever killing mobs either (it gets redundant after 3 years of playing this game).This is also strictly for PVE I might add.

If anyone can answer this or has any idea how I can achieve this I would be forever grateful.

falchoin · June 2013

Without a specific theme I went for a more technological approach:
PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Super Stats:
Level 6: Dexterity (Primary)
Level 10: Recovery (Secondary)
Level 15: Intelligence (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Disciple
Level 6: Coordinated
Level 9: Impresario
Level 12: Negotiator
Level 15: Agile
Level 18: Brilliant
Level 21: Tireless

Powers:
Level 1: Wind Lash
Level 1: Hurricane (Rank 2, Rank 3, Accelerated Metabolism)
Level 6: Stormbringer (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 8: Dust Devil (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Molecular Self-Assembly
Level 14: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Concentration
Level 20: Typhoon (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Masterful Dodge
Level 26: Lock N Load
Level 29: Force Shield (Force Sheathe)
Level 32: Evasive Maneuvers (Rank 2, Sleight of Mind)
Level 35: Bionic Shielding (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 38: Force Detonation (Rank 2, Rank 3)

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Athletics (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Flight

Specializations:
Dexterity: Combat Training (3/3)
Dexterity: Gear Utilization (2/3)
Dexterity: Deadly Aim (3/3)
Dexterity: Expose Weakness (2/2)
Guardian: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
Guardian: Find the Mark (2/3)
Guardian: The Best Defense (3/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Modified Gear (2/2)
Vindicator: Mass Destruction (3/3)
Mastery: Dexterity Mastery (1/1)

Stat-wise you'll want enough DEX for a reasonable crit chance (at least 30%, preferably a bit more), stack a lot of INT and enough REC so you can full charge Typhoon at the start without needing to use Conviction as a way to proc MSA before the battle starts. Lots of offense/defense buffing and this spec makes use of the recursive Guardian/Vindi specs to buff both even further.

Dust Devil will be your main way to proc MSA outside of Conviction. You should be able to weave it between Hurricane maintains and Typhoon charges.

Evasive Maneuvers w/ adv is a semi-reliable aggro drop (~50% complete aggro drop, but you get a few seconds breathing room during the stealth always). Be wary of using it when solo for the dodge buff as you might accidentally cause the mobs to reset due to stealth.

Force Detonation was added more for fun/flavor. Consider if a free slot to play around with.

thebuckeye · June 2013

Or you could give this one a whirl.

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name:

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Recovery (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Endurance (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Devastator
Level 6: Quick Recovery
Level 9: Boundless Reserves
Level 12: Amazing Stamina
Level 15: Ascetic
Level 18: Wordly
Level 21: Daredevil

Powers:
Level 1: Wind Lash
Level 1: Hurricane (Rank 2, Perfect Storm)
Level 6: Stormbringer (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 8: Sparkstorm (Electric Personality)
Level 11: Wind Barrier
Level 14: Wind Reverberation
Level 17: Typhoon (Rank 2, Rank 3, Ionic Discharge)
Level 20: Inertial Dampening Field (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Dust Devil (Rank 2, Triple Threat)
Level 26: Resurgence (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 29: Ego Surge (Nimble Mind)
Level 32: Updraft (Dispersal)
Level 35: Force Eruption (Gravitational Polarity)
Level 38: Air Elemental

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Tornado Flight (Rank 2)
Level 35: Displacement Acrobatics

Specializations:
Recovery: Rapid Recovery (3/3)
Recovery: Staying Power (2/2)
Recovery: Super Charged (2/3)
Recovery: Efficient (3/3)
Avenger: Ruthless (2/2)
Avenger: Anguish (2/2)
Avenger: Round 'em Up (1/3)
Avenger: Relentless Assault (3/3)
Avenger: Preemptive Strike (2/3)
Overseer: Ruthless (2/2)
Overseer: Overseer Aura (3/3)
Overseer: Impact (2/2)
Overseer: Enhanced Gear (3/3)
Mastery: Recovery Mastery (1/1)

With this build you want to focus on your Recovery as its going to helping you with your self healing and your energy return from Wind Reverberation which is based on repelling your targets, which with Force Eruption if you just tap it it will cause a repel, as will simply blocking with your Wind Barrier. But also don't slack on stacking up your constitution because its what's going to fuel your Nimble Mind advantage off of Ego Surge and it's going to help boost Resurgence. Endurance will help you have a lot more maximum energy which means you will have a bigger reserve of power to help fuel Typhoon and running Sparkstorm with Hurricane.

rileymarks1 · June 2013

Well the second build offered is very similar to the one I am running now with a few minor changes.

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Ego (Primary)
Level 10: Dexterity (Secondary)
Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Squall
Level 6: Accurate
Level 9: Boundless Reserves
Level 12: Shooter
Level 15: Impressario
Level 18: Wordly
Level 21: Quick Recovery

Powers:
Level 1: Wind Lash
Level 1: Hurricane (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Wind Reverberation (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 8: Force Shield (Force Sheath)
Level 11: Stormbringer (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 14: Crushing Wave (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Lock N Load (Rank 2)
Level 20: Typhoon (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Empathic Healing (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 26: Rebirth
Level 29: Concentration (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Field Surge (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Inertial Dampening Field (Rank 2)
Level 38:

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Flight (Rank 2)
Level 35: Acrobatics (Versatility)

Specializations:
Ego: Force of Will (2/2)
Ego: Insight (3/3)
Ego: Sixth Sense (2/3)
Ego: Follow Through (3/3)
Guardian: Ruthless (3/3)
Guardian: Fortified Gear (2/2)
Guardian: Find the Mark (2/3)
Guardian: The Best Defense (3/3)
Avenger: Preemptive Strike (2/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Modified Gear (2/2)
Vindicator: Mass Destruction (3/3)
Mastery: Ego Mastery (1/1)

So far energy is no problem and my dps is awesome, the problem I'm running into is the lack of defense unless I am constantly activating field surge. I was hoping to find an alternative method of performing pretty good damage wise, but also with a bit more defense so that I am not having to go on the defensive after my initial attack.

I had thought about taking a passive that put me in support or defensive roles, but that could also give me enough damage to take down baddies fairly quickly. I know the personal fav for that route is AoPM, but that yellow aura drives me bonkers. Just don't know if Defiance or another defensive passive would allow to dish out enough dps to take down a mob (kinda hung up on how tanking worked in COX).

flamingbunnyman · June 2013

If you want damage and survivability, take an Offensive passive that has a defensive ability, like Way of the Warrior, Unstoppable, or Quarry. Get a high Constitution. Between specs, gear and your passive, get a diverse mix of Defense, Dodge, Avoid, Heals, etc - in CoH terms, think of it like building a scrapper or brute with high Defense, Resist and Regen.

If you actually want to tank, run in Hybrid mode and use Bulwark to generate extra threat.

IDF is often overkill on survivability, and can seriously reduce your damage output. If you decide to use it, consider taking a damaging form, and switching between the two as the situation warrants.

Try something like this for a starting point:

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name:

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Dexterity (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Squall
Level 6: Acrobat
Level 9: Impresario
Level 12: Quick Recovery
Level 15: Shooter
Level 18: Ascetic
Level 21: Wordly

Powers:
Level 1: Wind Lash
Level 1: Hurricane (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Wind Reverberation
Level 8: Quarry (Rank 2, Fair Game)
Level 11:
Level 14:
Level 17:
Level 20:
Level 23:
Level 26:
Level 29:
Level 32:
Level 35:
Level 38:

Travel Powers:
Level 6:
Level 35:

Specializations:
Dexterity: Combat Training (3/3)
Dexterity: Gear Utilization (2/3)
Dexterity: Evasion (2/2)
Dexterity: Deadly Aim (3/3)
Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
Warden: Tenacious (2/2)
Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: The Rush of Battle (3/3)
Vindicator: Modified Gear (2/2)
Mastery: Dexterity Mastery (1/1)

For your Primary equipment, use Heroic gear. Get the Crit Severity gloves and add a Gambler's Lucky Gem for more Crit chance, the Avoidance Armor with a Gambler's Lucky Gem for more dodge chance, and whichever helmet you like best. Slot for your superstats, plus a little Ego - one R5 Ego mod is probably good enough.

Running in Ranged DPS mode, you should be able to wipe out any henchmen and villains just by running around spamming hurricane. You'll have enough Def, Dodge and Avoidance to noticeably shrink any hits you take, enough HP that you won't die quickly, and between Quarry/Fair Game and Vindicator/Rush of Battle, you'll get healed and gain a heal over time for everything you kill.

Add whatever additional powers you like. Be sure to add some strong single target attacks for tough enemies.

rileymarks1 · June 2013

The wiki description states that Way of the Warrior and Unstoppable increases melee physical damage. Will that include ranged physical damage as well? If not then Quarry might not be a bad choice. Would you still need to invest points either with talents or gear to increase my intelligence rating to take advantage of the Audacity benefits? Also I never understood which was more versatile to take...Ego or Dexterity. You suggest dexterity, but I have seen most builds pick ego over dexterity when choosing one or the other.

flamingbunnyman · June 2013

Way of the Warrior and Unstoppable boost physical melee damage a lot, and non-physical melee damage and non-melee physical damage a lesser amount.

Quarry boosts all physical damage a moderate amount, and non-physical damage less. Since Wind deals mostly crushing damage, Quarry should work well for it.

Ego will get you a similar amount of critical severity to Dex, and both have a specs that boost Crit Chance. Ego will inherently boost ranged damage, while Dex inherently boosts Crit Chance; I personally prefer the Crit boost.
Additionally, Dex has specs that boost Dodge and Avoid, which is important for survival. Ego can boost defense, but you can get that from equipment, and use other specs to increase that Defense even more. Stacking a single protection too high is pointless, because of the effects of diminishing returns; it's better to have moderate amounts of Defense and Dodge than high amounts of just one.
Ego also has cost reduction in its spec tree, which can be handy, but if you can control your Energy usage via gear and an Energy Unlock, it's far less important.

Audacity is hard-capped at +30 points to each of Int and Ego. I personally don't concern myself with that portion of the power.

rileymarks1 · June 2013

Ah, thankyou for the clarification between dex and ego. I personally prefer to have a well-rounded toon, rather than one that excels in only one area. And I was not aware of the hardcap of Audacity. Seems rather pointless then to SS INT for an aspect of a power that hardaps at +30.

flamingbunnyman · June 2013

Mecha Teddy's Attributes and Passive Scaling Thread is one of my favorite threads on the forum. It has loads of useful data for the number crunchers.

raediya wrote: »

Power: Audacity (Quarry) (Rank 1: +0.07 points of intelligence and ego per point of intelligence. Rank 2: +0.086 points of intelligence and ego per point of intelligence. +0.099 points of intelligence and ego per point of intelligence. Bonus is hard capped at +30 intelligence and ego for all ranks.)

At about 375 Int (R1) or 300 Int (R3), the Audacity bonus to Int and Ego will cap off one stack. However, at 100 Int and R3 Quarry, three stacks caps it. Unless I'm misreading and that cap is per stack. I should test that.

Edit: I just logged into a character who has Quarry R2 and 217 Int. After fully stacking Quarry, I had 278 Int, or +61 points. Looks like the cap IS per stack. In that case, it could be worthwhile to take Int instead of Rec, especially if you want to use Quarry to shore up your Ego.

rileymarks1 · June 2013

Hmm well with all that dodge and avoidance it could mean that SS Con is a waste of time... Ok so here is a revised build. Subbing Int for Con.

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name:

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Intelligence (Primary)
Level 10: Dexterity (Secondary)
Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Inferno
Level 6: Coordinated
Level 9: Accurate
Level 12: Impresario
Level 15: Negotiator
Level 18: Boundless Reserves
Level 21: Energetic

Powers:
Level 1: Wind Lash
Level 1: Hurricane (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Force Blast (Rank 2)
Level 8: Force Shield (Force Sheathe)
Level 11: Concentration (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 14: Crushing Wave (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Quarry (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Rebirth
Level 23: Lock N Load (Rank 2)
Level 26: Force Cascade (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 29: Field Surge (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Empathic Healing (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Overdrive
Level 38: Resurrection Serum

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Acrobatics (Versatility)
Level 35: Flight

Specializations:
Intelligence: Enlightened (3/3)
Intelligence: Tactician (2/2)
Intelligence: Detect Vulnerability (1/3)
Intelligence: Tinkering (2/2)
Intelligence: Expertise (2/2)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Modified Gear (2/2)
Vindicator: Mass Destruction (3/3)
Guardian: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
Guardian: Find the Mark (2/3)
Guardian: The Best Defense (3/3)
Mastery: Intelligence Mastery (1/1)

Is this even possible in Champions?

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