Want to change the chat ban system? Look inside!

somebob · June 2013

It seems that the launch of NW has caused Cryptic to (finally) realize that the player run Mafia chat ban system was a Bad Idea, and as such they're taking ideas as to how to fix it.

Want your opinion heard? Now's the time to do something about it:

http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?326012-Player-Challenge-Make-the-Neverwinter-Chat-Ban-System-Better

sockmunkey · June 2013

Wow, I kinda figured if this issue was going to reach critical mass. It had to happen in the new shiney toy. But, it still feels like a punch in the gut to be ignored for so long. Only to have the new kids get the fix we should'a got years ago.

I think im going to go dye my red hair now. Getting tired of being the neglected step child.

I wonder how the STO kids are taking this? The realization that they are no longer the favorite is probably going to be a hard pill to stomach.

honestresearcher · June 2013

Typical cryptic....ya gotta FORCE THEM TO DO THEIR JOBS, because they wont do it by request or high demand.

^ You can quote that as many times as you want.

Im proud of the people for doing what i woulda done had i been effected by it enough. You gotta go All-In with a pokerface, else you wont get anything.

PS: They wont listen to your feedback so dont bother.

forutnefire · June 2013

I posted. Hopefully something happens.

Those of you reading this from the NW forums, enjoy the links below.

jennymachx · June 2013

Thanks for the link. Spoke my mind there (how's that for a first post?) but not holding my breath for any "improvement" to come, at least for CO.

nextnametaken · June 2013

Chat ban would work 100% perfectly if people were still allowed to communicate with people on their friend's list and an owned private channel.

At least there they can do less harm and the friend's and channel dwellers can decide if they want to hear this person or not.

Is this system not obviously simple?

However Cryptic's solution will most likely to take a lot of input, get people to blow off steam about the issue, and do nothing, knowing by a quick look at their spreadsheet that the complaining players will A) Be gone in some days time

already paid through the rear end for a founders pack and can't really do anything about it. C) are free to play and don't matter to the bottom line at all.

clcmercy · June 2013

aandrethegiant wrote: »

Just a note. This thread focuses on Neverwinter. Please do not link to other game forums. The challenge I'm proposing to you all is to improve the current text chat ban system in Neverwinter, not to rehash debates from previous years and from different games.

Now let's get back to specific ways to make the current chat ban system better! Thanks!!

Apparently, whatever fix that may come down the pipes is intended only for Neverwinter, as the discussion is only about Neverwinter.

jorifice1 · June 2013

More good news!
Read 'ol Andres' last post.
Whatever fix they do decide on will be applied exclusively to Neverwinter, not to Champs or STO. In fact they don't even want those two games mentioned in the discussion.
Hope was fun while it lasted

lan451 · June 2013

clcmercy wrote: »

Apparently, whatever fix that may come down the pipes is intended only for Neverwinter, as the discussion is only about Neverwinter.

Yep, he just nuked ALL of our posts over there. He left my first one though for some reason. All the rest of them are gone. Am not pleased.

sockmunkey · June 2013

Im hoping its just one over happy mod. And not an official stance. To silence long time customers for simply being long time customers. So that the new kids in the new game dont get spooked is pitiful.

For the first time, im seriously angry.

He was so busy putting us in our place. He still has yet to remove the bot spam that has been pooping all over the forums. Yup, we just got made to feel less welcome then a frigging bot.

clcmercy · June 2013

Just nuked mine, too. But I reposted. GODS that pisses me off.

sockmunkey · June 2013

He is just going to keep nuking them. I expect this is going to end poorly for all of us.

clcmercy · June 2013

Oh, I've propagated his post in this thread and two over in Star Trek. I'm done now. No more from me, promise.

sockmunkey · June 2013

Id rather not get banned for speaking up, on a legitimate issue. But I couldnt let it rest either.

If I gota take a forum vacation. All I can say is miss ya all, but it was worth it.

lan451 · June 2013

Hopefully you don't get banned, I don't think your post was rude or confrontational, but who can say with that andre guy.

Anyways I've said my piece about it over there and I think I'll be heading on back to my side of the Crypticverse. It was nice joining forces with you guys for a little while.

Helm, set course for New Romulus. Warp factor 9.

Engage.

towershield · June 2013

Pfft. That's the last time I'll try to be helpful over there. At least when my posts get purged over here I know I had it coming.

Here's to hoping they can convince the powers that be to make smart changes.

jennymachx · June 2013

Strangely enough my posts are still there. Someone else's post with the mention of STO is still there as well. Maybe he relented when he realized that the chat ban system is global amongst all three games and therefore mention of the other two games is relevant.

xcaligax · June 2013

So you're saying that Caliga can finally reign terror on the masses with the power of his voice? That I need not worry about the 24 hour chat ban nemesis that I have fought time and again and have always lost? That I, Caliga, will no longer have to use my full and immense power ( Don't make me do it! :eek: ) to finally silence this menace once and for all!!?!?

.....:biggrin:

towershield · June 2013

xcaligax wrote: »

So you're saying that Caliga can finally reign terror on the masses with the power of his voice? That I need not worry about the 24 hour chat ban nemesis that I have fought time and again and have always lost? That I, Caliga, will no longer have to use my full and immense power ( Don't make me do it! :eek: ) to finally silence this menace once and for all!!?!?

.....:biggrin:

...you know, perhaps keeping things how they are now isn't such a bad idea now that I think about it

/obvioustrollface

draogn · June 2013

nextnametaken wrote: »

Chat ban would work 100% perfectly if people were still allowed to communicate with people on their friend's list and an owned private channel.

As long as there is a silencing effect attached to this, the system will never work. The only thing that ignore should do is ignore the person for you and you alone. Report spam should send a report to a GM who then reviews the report and makes a decision based on the logs and other evidence.

Players should never ever be able to prevent someone from enjoying the game simply because they don't like something the person said or did.

Edit: On a side note I find it funny that they have a spammer in the NWO topic.

lafury001200 · June 2013

xcaligax wrote: »

So you're saying that Caliga can finally reign terror on the masses with the power of his voice? That I need not worry about the 24 hour chat ban nemesis that I have fought time and again and have always lost? That I, Caliga, will no longer have to use my full and immense power ( Don't make me do it! :eek: ) to finally silence this menace once and for all!!?!?

.....:biggrin:

There can be only one!

Finish him, and in doing so, usher in a new age of freedom!

chaelk · June 2013

My post is still there.

themightyzenith · June 2013

Originally Posted by aandrethegiant View Post
Just a note. This thread focuses on Neverwinter. Please do not link to other game forums. The challenge I'm proposing to you all is to improve the current text chat ban system in Neverwinter, not to rehash debates from previous years and from different games.

Now let's get back to specific ways to make the current chat ban system better! Thanks!!

I find this statement lacking in so many ways. Perhaps trailturtle, in his role as OUR community manager, could shed some light on why this review of the chat ban system doesn't concern CO.....or perhaps aandre's comments were rather hastily made.

flyingfinn · June 2013

I predict '****z happens'. Seems they are just trying to cover, without success, the fact that it existed way before the 'Bad people are abusing Report Spam in NW' thing.
They will be asking free working mods from the playerbase to "monitor" the Spam Report abuse and report the reports so the report reporter can be dealed with. After 5 working days. With a slap to the wrist and note 'Promise you won't do it again'.
And it most likely only affects to NW. Leaving CO and STO way they were, because it's 'working as intended'.

cybersoldier1981 · June 2013

I've personally tried to discuss this over there with the Neverwinter crowd. Their fanbois seem a bit jaded, and many even thought it was a 'great thing' because of Gold-Spammers. I played the game for several hours and saw nary a one. I just think these starry-eyed D&D-worshippers could see no fault in their new god. And now I find it comical that they see the stupidity of the chat-ban system.

I have to be outright rude and judgmental- most of the people that Neverwinter has hooked seem to be castoffs and bored WoW players that still hold that aggressive 'stick it to the other player' mindset. The exact kind to enjoy exploiting this system to get payback since they can't PvP in the open world and corpse-camp players with half their level. Greifing is bigger than one can imagine.

I personally think this gaming community would be far better off if we'd get it out of our minds that people should be 'punished' for what we see as 'annoying' or 'inconvenient' chat.

Don't want to read someone's posts? Use the ignore feature. It is no longer your problem.

Don't think other players should have to read that person's posts? Let them be big boys and girls and use the ignore feature for themselves.

It's amazing that this, in and of itself, solves all the problems people think 'spammers' cause.

honestresearcher · June 2013

They deleted your posts over there?
...

Told ya so

nextnametaken · June 2013

draogn wrote: »

As long as there is a silencing effect attached to this, the system will never work. The only thing that ignore should do is ignore the person for you and you alone.

No that is pure stupidity, it should not require 10,000 players using zone chat, /ignoring some spammer to shut him up.

draogn wrote: »

Report spam should send a report to a GM who then reviews the report and makes a decision based on the logs and other evidence.

That is also ridiculous.

You really expect someone to be there 24 hours a day making morality calls and reviewing the most inane conversations ever had in a free to play game to please the 1% of 1% of players that are angry for more than a split second about chat bans?

You volunteering for that contract?

cybersoldier1981 · June 2013

Heh. Look at my post. They can delete it or suspend me from the forums all the hell they want. I believe in calling it like it is. I'm a PWE customer, I can use the damned forums.

baroness1980 · June 2013

That andre guy's attitude is enough to have me considering quitting NWO... period.

It is a fun change of pace from CO (specially looking at some use generated content with Foundry) but CO is my home...

honestresearcher · June 2013

So who wants to make a chat ban mafia on CO? Anyone?

Ya gotta 'FORCE THEM TO DO THEIR JOBS TM'

Its been proven over and over again. Having a word with them is simply not an option anymore.

zahinder · June 2013

The Foundry crowd is a lot better. Foundry is amazing...

There are a few nitwits, of course.

I'm hoping the main forum culture gets less fetid in a few months when the rush is off.

themightyzenith · June 2013

Just had another look at that thread....seems aandre has changed his tune somewhat

Well done to those of you who pointed out to him the error of his ways.

rexcelestis · June 2013

This might sound a little heretical, but honestly, I'd rather have the company direct CO resources towards something else. I'd rather see a new costume set, a new hideout, a new zone,... something, before they look at the chat ban "Feature."
a

beldin · June 2013

nextnametaken wrote: »

That is also ridiculous.

You really expect someone to be there 24 hours a day making morality calls and reviewing the most inane conversations ever had in a free to play game to please the 1% of 1% of players that are angry for more than a split second about chat bans?

You volunteering for that contract?

I already laugh in advance to when they really remove the automatic chatban, and after that masses of posts suddenly moan about that nobody cares about all the Gold-Spammers :biggrin:

Even if we don't have them in CO, i think there will be a lot in NW as in most other F2P games where you just log in the first time and yor chatwindow is already filled with 2 pages of goldspam.

themightyzenith · June 2013

rexcelestis wrote: »

This might sound a little heretical, but honestly, I'd rather have the company direct CO resources towards something else. I'd rather see a new costume set, a new hideout, a new zone,... something, before they look at the chat ban "Feature."
a

Looks to me like it's NW resources going towards it, and they have plenty, so maybe our resource(s?) could make something for CO.

crypticbuxom · June 2013

These report changes will apply to NWO only? What were you expecting. Devs LOATHE sharing tech they made for a specific game with the other two (except CO which loves to share, even though STO and NWO doesn't want the character customization). It seems NWO devs think of themselves higher than even STO now.

themightyzenith wrote: »

Looks to me like it's NW resources going towards it, and they have plenty, so maybe our resource(s?) could make something for CO.

I'd prefer that any tech that can benefit all games be shared with all their games.

draogn · June 2013

nextnametaken wrote: »

No that is pure stupidity, it should not require 10,000 players using zone chat, /ignoring some spammer to shut him up.

That is also ridiculous.

You really expect someone to be there 24 hours a day making morality calls and reviewing the most inane conversations ever had in a free to play game to please the 1% of 1% of players that are angry for more than a split second about chat bans?

You volunteering for that contract?

Yes I expect Cryptic to have a GM watching for reports and doing his job, just like it works for nearly every other mmo company.

And it is pure stupidity that players have the power to silence anyone that they may disagree with or who might beat them in a duel. A system that gives moderation power to a playerbase doesn't work. It has been proven that players will abuse such power.

sparhawk · June 2013

I'm not really expecting any major changes (they certainly won't implement anything requiring hiring customer service staff to review things as that would cost significant amounts of money), so I'm just going to wait and see if anything actually happens.

honestresearcher · June 2013

Its cryptic

NOTHING is going to happen
NOTHING CORRECT will be done if it something does

lets face it, they cant Copy>Paste their way out of this one.

ashensnow · June 2013

nextnametaken wrote: »

No that is pure stupidity, it should not require 10,000 players using zone chat, /ignoring some spammer to shut him up.

You don't need to shut him up. You just need the option to not have to see his, "spam." That option can exist without providing griefers with additional tools to pursue their agenda.

crypticbuxom · June 2013

You know what could always work? Only the first ignore adds a tag to report a player. If you choose to remove that ignore, than it becomes your own responsibility.

Or make it that if someone has been put on chat ban enough times, then a GM sees the reports and makes the decision to see if the chat bans are justified (putting the player on permanent chat ban) or make that player immune to chat ban (permanent or temporary).

Regardless, an MMO needs constant GM interaction. Its a big enough of a system project and it profits enough to always have someone on duty. Or they can initiate a volunteer program of well respected players or the company can screen players to put them in the position. You can always keep these hires secret and no one will know if someone is another player of it its a real GM.

Vote crypticbuxom as your volunteer GM. I don't have anyone on my ignore list and I'm pretty indifferent as to who gets reported or not.

clcmercy · June 2013

Utterly flummoxed.

Apparently, according to the wording in this article, Neverwinter now gets a test server to release content to before releasing it to the open beta servers. >_>

http://nw.perfectworld.com/news/?p=907501

evillegacy1 · June 2013

crypticbuxom wrote: »

You know what could always work? Only the first ignore adds a tag to report a player. If you choose to remove that ignore, than it becomes your own responsibility.

Or make it that if someone has been put on chat ban enough times, then a GM sees the reports and makes the decision to see if the chat bans are justified (putting the player on permanent chat ban) or make that player immune to chat ban (permanent or temporary).

Regardless, an MMO needs constant GM interaction. Its a big enough of a system project and it profits enough to always have someone on duty. Or they can initiate a volunteer program of well respected players or the company can screen players to put them in the position. You can always keep these hires secret and no one will know if someone is another player of it its a real GM.

Vote crypticbuxom as your volunteer GM. I don't have anyone on my ignore list and I'm pretty indifferent as to who gets reported or not.

One thing I always said and asked. What is the point of making rules when there is not enough man power to enforce those rules? Like now I can by definition create any rule I see fit and fancy, but it's meaningless if I cant enforce the rule. I can make a rule that requires all players of Champions wear Pink in game and in real life all day every day until they die. There rule created. Now what? I dont think hardly anyone will folow that rule if there is no way to enforce it. It's useless. Why is there police instead of mob justice? Ideally people can punish their own law breakers but histiry have shown it never work in ideal situations and too many people get shafted while the real law breakers go free. While not as detrimental, that is how the chat ban system seems to be set up in this game. Mob justice where 90% of the time it's just for revenge for losing 9% accidental, and 1% maybe did something crazy. Ineffective enforcement and quite frankly one of the dumbest ideas in the history of gaming.
While a few "well respected" players of the community can work, I see it no different than what we have now, except putting the power into the hands of a popular few that probably still wont ban their own friends or inner circle but quickly still ban anyone they dont like. If going to do that, might as well leave it as is especially with as little oversight as is.
I think there should be GM monitoring one way or another or at least someone that review the bans and cases, even if they work mon-fri, like tech support seem to (unless deep emergency like mass server drop out). If they cant enforce the rules, then might as well throw them out the window if people can break them without fear of anything happening while those that win at a PvP match get silenced left and right and no due process or anyways to dispute. Even most moderator decisions in most games have a dispute process but not the decision of a a few sore losers and their cronies? I'm not sure about anyone else here, but I dont see how that make sense or was viewed as a good idea to begin with. I think it will be better off if they just remove the chat ban system completely and buff up their reporting thing if they cant monitor it themselves in game.

crypticbuxom · June 2013

I'd certainly support a player run moderator system if those players were like biffsmackwell. If they are given enough power to moderate the forums and have been fair, I don't see why not extend that to the game itself.

sparhawk · June 2013

clcmercy wrote: »

Utterly flummoxed.

Apparently, according to the wording in this article, Neverwinter now gets a test server to release content to before releasing it to the open beta servers. >_>

http://nw.perfectworld.com/news/?p=907501

Love the gif, we all know how the test servers work in the other Cryptic games...
Neverwinter is officially "live/released" in two weeks making this slightly less odd.

nepht · June 2013

clcmercy wrote: »

Utterly flummoxed.

Apparently, according to the wording in this article, Neverwinter now gets a test server to release content to before releasing it to the open beta servers. >_>

http://nw.perfectworld.com/news/?p=907501

I know that gif is from Castle but ZOD DAMINT! I miss Firefly :<

jennymachx · June 2013

clcmercy wrote: »

Utterly flummoxed.

Apparently, according to the wording in this article, Neverwinter now gets a test server to release content to before releasing it to the open beta servers. >_>

http://nw.perfectworld.com/news/?p=907501

A beta-beta server then?

clcmercy · June 2013

jennymachx wrote: »

a Beta-beta Server Then?

Betaception.

honestresearcher · June 2013

"Dont juggle power which nobody should have, as the only result can be destruction." ~ Snake Wildlife
"It is power that cannot protect anything" ~Asura The Destructor

.

Remove Chat Ban powers from the system altogether, if someone is spamming or whatever, we can already ignore them, that is enough.

CO does not suffer from gold sellers, so there is no reason to host global ban powers triggered by in-game means.

sekimen · June 2013

Did you just seriously quote youself...?

themightyzenith · June 2013

crypticbuxom wrote: »

I'd prefer that any tech that can benefit all games be shared with all their games.

Me too....you quoted me as if I had said the contrary of that...which I didn't.

Want to change the chat ban system? Look inside!

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