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Kits state of the Game (2013 & more numbers)
jadetora
Posts: 116 Arc User
Okay.. So in the past, we've made it a point to support and defend Cryptic and PWI, We've defended the mistakes, the blunders, the clear oversights but now we just can't do it anymore. A few things have made the truth and facts of the matters abundantly clear to us and it's impossible, with the slightest bit of intelligence to retain such idealistic optimism. Here's where we stand with Champions Online, folks;
Their numbers are presumably pathetic. But we've got both good news and bad news.
The good news is, we don't believe the game will be shut down. There's no real reason to shut Champions Online down right now, no matter how miniscule a profit it's making, the fact remains that it is providing some level of revenue for PWI. The bad news is, realistically.. No.. We regrettably finally have to admit, we probably won't see further development for Champions Online and it will, largely remain as it is now until its end.
We'll be lucky if we ever see the little things that were promised to us like the Aura System or, hey.. Anyone remember that Ninja Costume pack that was promised.. ages ago? (http://co.perfectworld.com/news/?p=579581)
This is the fact of the matter folks, PWI isn't doing so well period. And they probably don't want you to know it, but here's how it is.
PWI doesn't do stellar business in China, regardless of what is said and what they want you to believe. And the fact of the matter is, investors are also very pessimistic about this company with good reason, their business ethic sucks.
The fact of the matter is, it's as a very intelligent friend of ours said in a discussion about this subject; they're profiting off of our good will and naivety.
They don't have a long-term goal in mind for any of their games, their focus is on the short-term, which means basically.. They don't give two s@#ts about their customers or you as a gamer. All they're interested in is their short-term profits and making certain that their costs for maintaining their games remains cheap which is why PWI pumps out MMO's at such a consistent rate.
So what do you do with this information?
Take it how you will.
Champions Online isn't likely going anywhere in the immediate future, but it's also not likely to get much attention. It's not necessarily Cryptics fault, it's PWI's fault for being crap businessmen with short-sightedness and a lack of understanding for their market. Whereas other games are interested in maximizing their profits by producing a consistently good product that ensures the retention of customers, PWI views the market as being wide and large enough to allow them to run however many of us off that they can and need to, burning the bridges in the process because new rubes will arrive to build new bridges in the hopes things will be different.
Understand we're not being a doomsayer, we're not saying 'Don't play Champions Online!,' it's still a perfectly good (and enjoyable) game, at least in our opinion.. Just don't expect anything particularly stellar from it hereon out..
And we're baffled as to why a successful corporation like Wizards of the Coast would choose to invest their biggest intellectual property in a company like PWI because they must know if PWI maintains true to form, this will hurt their reputation but that's a different story for a different day.
Anyway! That's our two cents. Kit out.
*drops mic.*
Their numbers are presumably pathetic. But we've got both good news and bad news.
The good news is, we don't believe the game will be shut down. There's no real reason to shut Champions Online down right now, no matter how miniscule a profit it's making, the fact remains that it is providing some level of revenue for PWI. The bad news is, realistically.. No.. We regrettably finally have to admit, we probably won't see further development for Champions Online and it will, largely remain as it is now until its end.
We'll be lucky if we ever see the little things that were promised to us like the Aura System or, hey.. Anyone remember that Ninja Costume pack that was promised.. ages ago? (http://co.perfectworld.com/news/?p=579581)
This is the fact of the matter folks, PWI isn't doing so well period. And they probably don't want you to know it, but here's how it is.
"But Perfect World has struggled to keep up with its peers in the video game space. Given its failure to attract many gamers within the domestic Chinese market, Perfect World has focused more on international markets in the U.S. and Europe." -Source(http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2013/05/24/why-perfect-worlds-recent-surge-might-not-last.aspx)
PWI doesn't do stellar business in China, regardless of what is said and what they want you to believe. And the fact of the matter is, investors are also very pessimistic about this company with good reason, their business ethic sucks.
The fact of the matter is, it's as a very intelligent friend of ours said in a discussion about this subject; they're profiting off of our good will and naivety.
They don't have a long-term goal in mind for any of their games, their focus is on the short-term, which means basically.. They don't give two s@#ts about their customers or you as a gamer. All they're interested in is their short-term profits and making certain that their costs for maintaining their games remains cheap which is why PWI pumps out MMO's at such a consistent rate.
So what do you do with this information?
Take it how you will.
Champions Online isn't likely going anywhere in the immediate future, but it's also not likely to get much attention. It's not necessarily Cryptics fault, it's PWI's fault for being crap businessmen with short-sightedness and a lack of understanding for their market. Whereas other games are interested in maximizing their profits by producing a consistently good product that ensures the retention of customers, PWI views the market as being wide and large enough to allow them to run however many of us off that they can and need to, burning the bridges in the process because new rubes will arrive to build new bridges in the hopes things will be different.
Understand we're not being a doomsayer, we're not saying 'Don't play Champions Online!,' it's still a perfectly good (and enjoyable) game, at least in our opinion.. Just don't expect anything particularly stellar from it hereon out..
And we're baffled as to why a successful corporation like Wizards of the Coast would choose to invest their biggest intellectual property in a company like PWI because they must know if PWI maintains true to form, this will hurt their reputation but that's a different story for a different day.
Anyway! That's our two cents. Kit out.
*drops mic.*
Post edited by jadetora on
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This discussion has been closed.
Comments
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
What's sad is given their less than impressive business in China, PWI needs us for its revenue and profit but is regularly scorning us and burning bridges with us. Flatly, a STUPID business practice.
a
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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TrailTurtle, you know we
So forgive us, but we have to be straight. We're taking what you say with a healthy grain of salt (and probably contracting sodium poisoning) because you are, by definition of your employment, required to remain on PWI and Cryptics side in all matters.
Your input on this isn't really something we can reliably trust in. Sorry, it's not any offense meant and we don't love you any less.. We're just being straight..
The numbers expressed are numbers for the websites earnings. But they give a good idea of what earnings outside of the website (through the game client itself) may be and frankly, it paints a somewhat grim picture.
The fact of the matter is, the sheer lack of communication or assurance of otherwise paints a grim picture in and of itself. If Cryptic and PWI were able to defend themselves, it wouldn't be a difficult case to do so. Communicate and provide us with evidence to the contrary. However we see none. Only silence.
Could you please explain the connection between website earning and the status of their games?
I found the Motley Fool information interesting, but I don't see how the numbers posted have any correlation to anything other than website earnings?
I will join the other request for a citation.
Thanks,
a
You're getting something wrong.
In China, yes, most of the companies don't have any kind of long-term goal. They are mess-producing games after games, most of them won't last past BETA, while still earning money however they could from the customers who don't know a thing.
However, the games mentioned here are all browser games, these games that is as easy to make as stealing some art and music, have 3~5 University grads work on a week with instant noodles as lunch and supper, and shamelessly advertise their product whatever they can.
(Protip from Chinese developer who actually cares: You want good Chinese games? Go with Indie Developers!)
None of these match Champions Online.
Also, PW just acquired the rights of running DotA2 in China, make that what you want.
*Note: In China, government have laws in that if you need to run a MMORPG ( or any game, actually) you need to have a proper company in China to host that. For example, the certain World of something is under Netease (163.com) currently, while they got their license from The9 Inc when theirs expired.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
...the ultimate Contrast Moe (or not).
You're welcome to of course, interpret the numbers as you will. We merely placed them there to give people something to think about.
Do you genuinely believe with the player population and the lack of actual content that they're raking in the 'big bucks' through their in-game client?
They've also not announced any earnings publicly for Champions Online. At the risk of sounding like a tin-foil-hat, we suspect it's because the numbers would greatly embarrass them as a company even if they are making some small profit off the game.
website snoopers like those cannot be taken seriously.
forget about the earning part, really.
I could tell you the reason, but I'll be brief.
These websites are mainly using data from Alexa. Now, how did Alexa get their data? They did it by users who install their (and other providers that assist them) toolbars. Each time these people who have toolbars/plugins installed go to the website, the toolbar/plugin give back a piece of information to Alexa (Hey, it's written in their TOS!).
There are other ways to acquire the data without toolbar, but going further will breach a certain agreement of my job, so I'll stop here. All I could say is it's not any shady ways.
So basically, you are looking at the people who go to CO's website who installed such toolbar/plugin, which is far from the correct number.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
...the ultimate Contrast Moe (or not).
No, those are just expectations for ad sales revenue some third-party is making based upon pageviews. In other words, completely bogus in terms of revenue from commerce, subscriptions, etc.
Please disregard my previous comments that might have implied these numbers are at all useful
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
Also, as with others, [Citation Needed].
Deliciously nutritious!
Maybe.
But in this situation, their actions speak louder than any data or numbers could.
It sounds as though you are trying to sound like an authority that you are not, and detracts from your credibility.
Information on web site traffic/earnings is not the same as in-game traffic and earnings. What percent of players deal with the site on a regular basis? What percent use the site after the initial download?
We have no idea, but it is less than 100%.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Their only real source of income presumably, or the major one is Cosmic Keys and lockboxes.
With such an utter lack of communication, whereas we were previously quite optimistic in believing that Champions Online would regain its developers after the release of NWO (which it more or less has been released. Beta does not = taking money, allowing anyone to log in, and stating plainly that everything is live and there will be no wipes), we can no longer in good conscience or intelligence believe that Champions Online will receive the love it deserves.
Which makes us quite sad.
Because we've always believed that others complaining about the game harmed it, we've always said this and defended Cryptic and PWI and now we find ourselves more or less pushed into believing that perhaps we were wrong. The evidence and actions on the part of PWI and Cryptic suggest that this game is in a very bad place and that while it probably won't be going away, it probably also won't be improving.
We'll continue to play, of course. But that's understanding that the game will probably never see any of the love it deserves given to it.
This makes us a very sad Kit.
http://sto.perfectworld.com.w3snoop.com/
I find it hard to think their value of Champions is anything but utter B.S.
Didn't check anything else. Like we said, it may be dubious. Admittedly including it in the conversation perhaps wasn't the best choice, it doesn't really offer anything new to the conversation and our points remain the same without it.
Also removed the numbers. Since they're not really needed and were a bad choice to include to begin with. Our points remain valid without them, so no loss.
Actually most of us were talking about the numbers, the rest of it we already know from the 9000+ other threads all saying that the game is in maimtenance mode, has no developers, requires additional pylons, etcetera...
Deliciously nutritious!
Point taken.
And maybe making one posting our two cents on the matter wasn't needed, but we have just as much right to discuss it as anyone else. We also included information on the fact that their stocks have been viewed pessimistically to say the least and that they're probably not going to change their ways any time soon.
Even so, this thread was made in the hopes that it'd have some impact and get Cryptic and PWI to make a change for the positive.
Guess there was a tiny bit of that naive optimism left in us after all.
Actually they just had a good earnings report earlier in the week and the stock (PWRD) is looking strong. Hopefully that trickles down to better things for CO eventually.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
According to their Q1, they've lost profit comparatively.
Its PWE as in Perfect World Entertainment. PWI is Perfect World International , a game and to be exact the western version of Perfect World 2.
All the rest of your post was hyperbole .
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
YAY :P I have a few of those this gives me the HAPPEHS \o/
YOU! pleb peoples. BUY MOAR LOCKBOXES NEPHT DEMANDS IT! U__U"
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Sorry we made it to begin with. Please do the merciful thing and shut the post down. Thank you.
As in you were proven wrong on all counts?
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
As in things like these are not conducive responses, but personal attacks. And we don't feel like feeding trolls.
Make it happen Cryptic!
I aint a troll ( well I have been known to troll trolls ) as others will tell you im a shareholder ( ive got around $200 bucks worth :P ) and I knew you were trolling the game the moment you couldnt even get the company name right and posted nothing but falsehoods.
And you expected people NOT to flame you. Good luck with that!
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Secondly, we've also been quite reasonable. We've tailored the post and made edits and alterations to specifically remove and apologized for irrelevant bits included.
Our only intention was to hopefully spark a conducive conversation.
However these forums are full of people who greatly resemble piranha and have no interest in a civil conversation.
That's our last bit of say on the matter. If you want to make fun of us after this, that's your choice. *sigh* Don't have the energy or care to bother.
One was proven wrong one must learn to Deal with it
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
So, please. If you're done posting relevant information on the topic why not go find another thread to contribute to?
Theres that and then theres this...
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
While it's true this is my first post in the forums I am a long time player. My in game account is @kunoichiblue, I've been playing the game for over a year. I have several level 40 characters.
Aside from agreeing with someone, I am not -agreeing- with anything, I am defending Kit's right to express herself as she wishes without ridicule.
Send a PM to him or smackwell, I doubt they usually romp around every thread looking for stuff.
Also, we ain't piranhas. (Except me om nom fishy) We just prefer a bit more then a few random numbers when we're told to believe something. We've been through the same hoop and jazz for the past...What, half year? Year? Yeah.
Everyone's entitled to post their opinion on stuff but we've also seen and heard every opinion its been so long. Doom and gloom threads are like forum games here.
Deliciously nutritious!
Well I stand corrected your her BFF. You must be you know shes a girl. I am like a kitteh Columbo !
ONE MOAR THING!
You must also recognize our right to call HER out on HER BS. Door swings both ways :P
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Are you saying it's wrong to come to the aide of a friend who is being essentially bullied for the way they express themselves? Then I guess I am wrong.
Additionally, it has been established that the information in this post may not be correct, I don't believe that's the issue at this point. This thread was created to spark legitimate discussion, and that discussion has ended.
Your attack on Kit's manner of speech is unwarranted and needlessly hurtful. If your goal is to be hurtful, then fine, you have succeeded. Kit has reasons for the way she expresses herself and calling it "BS" because it happens to differ slightly from the way you express yourself is at the VERY LEAST unnecessary.
I think the way jade expresses herself(?) is kind of cute. Lots of people round here do all sorts of things with their text to try an be unique.
On the attack thing well, she was attacked and attacked in return ( calling the community piranhas). Which makes her the same as anyone else, it happens.
As the discussion in question has suspect data, the discussion itself has never been legitimate.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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Yeah.. I guess I could sell a share to cash out my useless "PTS Subscription"
OR they are embarrassed by how MUCH money it makes while producing no content with the revenue.
But seriously, trolling and attacking directly isn't the same thing as debunking and discrediting your source.
Or I could just refer to myself by my full name. Sockmunkey P. Fluffybottom loves this thread. :biggrin:
It -is- borderline annoying to some, however...myself included. And, it really does detract from any credibility she/he/it is trying to prove/show. Honest opinion, not an attack at all.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
But randomly choosing numbers from an unreliable snooping website and using them, in conjunction with everyone's already apparent disappointment in an attempt to show "new" negativity is just as morally reprehensible as any reporter for a 2-bit tabloid with half a source and a can of commentary.
Flare's guide to hosting and judging costume contests!
(link under construction)
Please... never... NEVER use that demeaning way to refer to another person... if unsure with their gender, use "them" or "They" The "He/she/it" is generally used to demean transgender people and quite hurtful.
Don't think that was the intention, but for future use... keep this in mind.
While I completely understand where you're coming from, I don't think you can give someone $#!@ from referring to herself in the third person, then turn around and refer to her in the third person.
I, only the other hand, refer to everyone with the feminine pronoun, since we all know that every one on the internet is actually a 40 year old dude still living in his mom's basement. :biggrin:
Part of the problem since December, 2012.
Entirely off-topic and needlessly defensive. This is the sort of conversation that needs to take place on tumblr and stay there.
It is my opinion, being annoyed when no offense is offered is the issue of the person agitated. There giving offense and taking offense, I figure.
I do not believe one can live their life based on what might possibly annoy other people. I might not ever leave the house, but even that might annoy someone.
I also believe how one chooses to relate themselves, what they are comfortable with, does not put into question one's credibility. Posting misleading and inaccurate data? That another matter entirely.
a