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Wolverine, stop.

cybersoldier1981cybersoldier1981 Posts: 2,501 Arc User
edited May 2013 in Fan Base Alpha
It comes to my attention that several members of this forum in fact do read comic books, and not the backwards Manga variety. While I understand that some people will argue that Manga are legitimate forms of comic books, I will counter their argument by making armpit noises every time they speak and therefore win the argument forever.

But today I would like to discuss an 'important' character in the Marvel Universe. His name is Wolverine, or Logan, or Patches, or James Howlett, or whatever gets shoehorned into his origin this coming year.



If you don't know who Wolverine is, I'm not going to go through his entire origin story to tell you-it's a cluster of garbage with no consistency, and it's only there to validate that this character is someone you should think is awesome, despite his heyday being over and done with. I'll give you the basic run-down. Wolverine is a mutant that can heal almost instantly, which would be a pretty cool power to have because you don't need health insurance but would also suck because you'll never be able to call in sick. Also, he has claws. These claws used to be bone, and totally have been through his entire history and were in no way shoehorned into his story- but now his entire skeleton and claws are coated in an unbreakable metal called Adamantium, which is not to be confused with Adamantane (on a side note, Adamantane is not to be confused with cocaine- trust me). This combination of super-healing, unbreakable bones, and razor claws makes for a pretty intimidating combo. Naturally, since this is SO AWESOME by itself, the writers of Marvel just decided he didn't need much in the way of personality so they made him a rude jerk that says 'bub'- which I'm not even sure was ever a word. This has not changed since the character?s first appearance. He's apparently the 'best there is at what he does', and as far as I can tell that's "claw faces and be an insufferable prick" so he's better than your cat, I guess.



That's Wolverine, and that's really all you need to know. If you'd just discovered Wolverine in the last 5 years based on what I told you, you'd probably agree that he's one of the most mindless and lame characters ever created. If he were a movie, he'd be one of the Resident Evil films, except with no sound and Braille subtitles. I have several issues with this character. I will be honest, and you probably won't believe me- but I never actually liked him, even when he was 'cool' and I was 13 years old. Back then, being a comic book nerd was bad enough. It's even worse when other comic book nerds are picking on you because you don't like Wolverine- I was a lame nerd who liked Iron Man. Lucky for you kids, nowadays there are movies that made comic books cool and now most of the people who gave us nerds the most hell are all of a sudden a comic book scholar. Anyway, I'm getting in the weeds- here's why I hate this guy.



-He has never once developed as a character. Since he first popped his claws he's been exactly what I described above- an abrasive jerk that picks fights with everyone. Now, this is where most comic book scholars come in and tell me all about his origin, and I have to shut you down. Wolverine has never progressed as a character, he has never developed, he has never changed. Shoving a massive amount of stories into his background does not count as development; it?s just a cheap attempt to keep justifying him as an 'awesome' character as he is now. It's like making someone sit through through the Star Wars classic trilogy, and they don't like it- so you keep shoving the prequels and the Clone Wars in their face to make them accept its current status as the greatest thing ever put on film since naked boobs were recorded. And yes, his background is just as absurd and silly as the Star Wars prequels are- with twice the shoehorned stupidity. He's a commando, a samurai, he's descended from wolves, he's done all kinds of crap because when he was first introduced, no one clarified his background and he's apparently like 200 years old or something. Shoehorning in origin stories is fine and all, but in the end it does nothing but make the character seem more lifeless- in all the experiences he's had in life, the logical progression would be that Wolverine would understand that it?s not a good idea to be a douchebag and pick fights with everyone you meet.



-He looks stupid.
And you can't argue this with me: All the guy's costumes make him look like a reject Thundercat at a Mardi Gras parade. Especially when he's not wearing his weird mask thing- who does their hair like that? Look, after living as long as this guy has, you'd think not styling your hair like a complete loon would be standard for someone trying to keep a low profile. But then again, after that long you've probably become some jaded attention-whoring hipster and you style your hair like a putz and pretend you don't even care. Either way, there's no reasonable excuse for this... and I don't even think it's possible according to the laws of physics to style your hair like this without the use of dangerous New Jersey styling products. Not even that, but his costume makes no sense at all. I don't even know what's going on there, are those like... ears or wings or what? It doesn't make me think 'Wolverine'. It makes me think 'masquerade ball for mentally challenged youngsters'.



-He's not a badass, he won a super-power lottery. At some point, Wolverine's powers were reasonable. You shot the guy with a gun, a minute later he's back in the fight. But, since this is Wolverine we're talking about, more was heaped onto the pile. Sooner or later, he's not healing wounds- he's just Jason Voorhees of the Marvel Universe. Guys are ripping his guts out, severing his head, and incinerating the guy and he's on the next panel looking badass with his claws out saying 'bub' like some drunken hobo fighting over half of a ham sandwich. In truth, with his super-healing, the claws and adamantium is a moot point; the guy could have a tube sock full of nickels and he'd win every fight. That's not badass, that's just powers- no matter what happens, he'll recover. Apparently, he's also a 'trained samurai swordsman' which is awesome, I guess- except this is 2013 and YOU ARE USING CLAWS THAT COME OUT OF YOUR FIST. Those are a little different than a samurai sword, in the same way a car is different than a shopping buggy. And it still makes no sense- about half of Wolverine's comic appearances are about him losing his temper and trying to claw someone to shreds for being in the same X-Men comic book as him. That's kind of not how I picture a Samurai following Bushido. Not to mention at one point, Wolverine was in the military which is something that rarely gets mentioned, much less factored into the character's skillset. As I made it clear before, in combat, Wolverine's tactics are the same as your average house cat: Pop claws, make noise, jump at enemy, and claw relentlessly. Again, this is a military-trained soldier and Bushido-adhering Samurai, folks? and for all his training, this poor dumb hump seems to be moving in reverse. According to some, Wolverine also has a 'berserker rage' mode; which, in my personal experience, is less a superpower and more a sign that you should stop drinking.



-He is the worst X-Man ever. Wolverine's contribution to the X-Men was like no other. By that, I mean that no other member of the X-Men was as useless and counter-productive as he was. Wolverine was so bad for the X-Men, he was a detriment- you'd almost think it would make more sense for him to join the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants and fight the good guys outright, especially considering something called the 'Brotherhood of Evil Mutants' has about as much delicate subtlety in the name as Wolverine has in everything he does. His position in the X-Men is made even more idiotic by the fact that the main villain of the X-Men was a dude who controlled magnetism, and it lends credibility to Magneto's compassion that he took pity on Wolverine's mental deficiency and didn't turn him into a hairy lawn sculpture with a gesture of his hands (Well, he did- once). Nearly every X-Men comic book was Wolverine acting like a jerk to everyone he worked with for no reason. That would be great if he were part of some antihero mercenary organization full of hardened veterans- but no, this is the X-Men: a group of heroes dedicated to bringing together those with different powers for the good of humanity and teaching mutual respect for both humans and mutants. If this were a school of art appreciation, Wolverine would be a drunken hillbilly that shows up and plants his bare buttocks against a Monet and rips a fart.



-He's not even a good concept in the fictional setting. If I were a high-ranking military general, and someone told me that they're going to spend billions of dollars to create the ultimate living weapon, I'd have some pretty high hopes for the final result. If in the end, your show & tell at the Big Super Secret Badass Killers Expo is a Hairy, mentally unstable, narcissistic douchebag with claws on his fists- I'm going to beat you so hard, you'll be the only guy rolling around Heaven in a wheelchair. All that planning, and that's all you can come up with? In a fictional setting with cyborgs, robots, lasers, and all kinds of advanced weapons technology- you show up with something that is supposed to scratch our problems to death. Tony Stark made the ultimate murder-suit in a cave with a calculator and a broken lawnmower- and this 'Wolverine' thing is the best that Department H can come up with- to fight the Incredible Hulk? I'm starting to think these guys just went home and asked their 9-year-old kids for ideas.



-He's practically a drama queen. Countless times Professor Xavier and Jean Grey attempted to help Wolverine unlock his lost memories, and he pushed them away. Even worse, multiple other characters reached out to him to help him reconcile his past- and he pushed them away, often violently. He chose to intentionally dwell on how awful his past was once he figured it all out. However, as I recall, Wolverine never did anything that was really that bad- he just chooses to wallow in self-pity and be a grumpybutt to everyone that tries to say "hey, we're on your side and we've got your back"- which is way more than he's ever done for anyone without insulting them before, during, and after the fact. Now that he knows everything, and he's faced it, and had a chance to mature from it- he's basically just the same jerk, and I'm starting to wonder if this 'loner' thing is a personal choice or a consequence of being an angsty man-child.



Well folks, already I've made my point. The sad fact about it is I can, without any ego whatsoever, say that I've put more thought and effort into this writeup than anyone put into Wolverine's character development... and I came up with this while I was on the toilet at work.

'Snikt'
Post edited by cybersoldier1981 on

Comments

  • flamingbunnymanflamingbunnyman Posts: 2,035 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Don't use smart quotes in your text editor if you plan on copy-pasting to the forums. They aren't compatible with the forum's character set, and get broken, turning into question marks.
    His name is Wolverine, or Logan, or Patches, or James Howlett, or whatever gets shoehorned into his origin this coming year.

    Just "Patch" in reference to the eyepatch he wore while incognito in Madripoor.
    'bub'- which I'm not even sure was ever a word.

    "Bub" means "baby", though I can't remember what language it originates from. It's also used as a term of endearment in those countries. In some areas, such as parts of Western Canada (where does Wolverine come from again?), it's used in much the same manner as "dude", "buddy" or "bro".
    He's a commando

    Nope, just a common soldier. Never made rank above Sergent.
    a samurai

    Nope. Trained in their martial style, and his sensei tried to instill the way of the samurai in him. He even tried to learn. I know how to use a broadsword, that doesn't make me a knight.
    he's descended from wolves

    Nope. It was wolverines, and it was revealed that that was just a made up story that he told someone else about "a boy". It was heavily implied that said boy was Logan, but never outright said. And it was fiction within the fiction anyways.
    he's done all kinds of crap because when he was first introduced, no one clarified his background and he's apparently like 200 years old or something.

    Nope. Most of the crap he's done, he never did. A lot of it was memory implants from when he was a test dubject of Department H. I'm pretty sure he still isn't 100% sure which are true or not.
    in all the experiences he's had in life, the logical progression would be that Wolverine would understand that it?s not a good idea to be a douchebag and pick fights with everyone you meet.

    One of his mutant powers that you failed to mention is his berserker rage. He's spent the majority of his comic history trying (and failing) to control it. So... He did learn that. He just hasn't mastered the ability to DO so, because it's physically ingrained in him.
    He looks stupid. And you can't argue this with me

    That's a matter of opinion. Therefore, yes, we can. I like his 80's brown and orange costume. The 90s blue and yellow one is OK. I'll agree that there's something wrong with his hairstyle, but I'm sure there are others that like it.
    Apparently, he's also a 'trained samurai swordsman' which is awesome, I guess- except this is 2013 and YOU ARE USING CLAWS THAT COME OUT OF YOUR FIST. Those are a little different than a samurai sword, in the same way a car is different than a shopping buggy.

    See above. He does know how to use that sword. Do they revoke your drivers license every time you get out of your car and start pushing around a shopping cart?
    And it still makes no sense- about half of Wolverine's comic appearances are about him losing his temper and trying to claw someone to shreds for being in the same X-Men comic book as him. That's kind of not how I picture a Samurai following Bushido.

    See above. Again.
    Not to mention at one point, Wolverine was in the military which is something that rarely gets mentioned, much less factored into the character's skillset. As I made it clear before, in combat, Wolverine's tactics are the same as your average house cat: Pop claws, make noise, jump at enemy, and claw relentlessly. Again, this is a military-trained soldier and Bushido-adhering Samurai, folks?

    See above. Again. Infantry, foot-soldier grunt. Not a Samurai, just trained in how to use the sword.
    According to some, Wolverine also has a 'berserker rage' mode; which, in my personal experience, is less a superpower and more a sign that you should stop drinking.

    Oh, you did mention his berserker nature. It's part of his mutation, not just an attitude problem. Do I need to tell you to see above?
    He's not even a good concept in the fictional setting. If I were a high-ranking military general, and someone told me that they're going to spend billions of dollars to create the ultimate living weapon, I'd have some pretty high hopes for the final result. If in the end, your show & tell at the Big Super Secret Badass Killers Expo is a Hairy, mentally unstable, narcissistic douchebag with claws on his fists

    You sound like you think that Wolverine is what Department H was TRYING for. He wasn't. Or rather, he wasn't finished.
    Tony Stark made the ultimate murder-suit in a cave with a calculator and a broken lawnmower

    You mean "Tony Stark made a gimpy, barely functional tank/suit hybrid out of a massive pile of highly advanced weapons, and then used it as a proof of concept for a far more advanced suit after he got access to his full lab." Your bias is showing here.
    and this 'Wolverine' thing is the best that Department H can come up with- to fight the Incredible Hulk? I'm starting to think these guys just went home and asked their 9-year-old kids for ideas.

    I'm not 100% sure who originally sent Wolverine after the Hulk; I've never read his original appearance. But at that time, he was nothing but a regular dude in tights, with high-tech gloves that housed telescopic claws. It was a writer's failure to communicate the nature of the claws that resulted in them eventually being turned into a part of him.
    However, as I recall, Wolverine never did anything that was really that bad

    Murdered countless thousands, including innocents?
    he just chooses to wallow in self-pity and be a grumpybutt to everyone that tries to say "hey, we're on your side and we've got your back"- which is way more than he's ever done for anyone without insulting them before, during, and after the fact. Now that he knows everything, and he's faced it, and had a chance to mature from it- he's basically just the same jerk, and I'm starting to wonder if this 'loner' thing is a personal choice or a consequence of being an angsty man-child.

    Everyone he's been close to has either been killed to get to him, or has turned on him. And you expect him to welcome new friendships with open arms?
    Well folks, already I've made my point. The sad fact about it is I can, without any ego whatsoever, say that I've put more thought and effort into this writeup than anyone put into Wolverine's character development? and I came up with this while I was on the toilet at work.

    The only point that you made is that you're a hater of a certain character, and think that everyone else should hate him too, just because you do. I'm not even a huge Wolverine fan, and I've punched several Sentinel-sized holes in your rant.
    'Snikt'

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BETHIGFTpk
    _________________________________________________
    @flamingbunnyman in game. Formerly @Roderick in City of Heroes.
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Gonna go out on a limb here and say you don't like Wolverine...:tongue:

    I don't mind him myself, I've always loved Marvel, X-Men and FF especially.

    I used to hate Scott Summers/Cyclops and his portrayal as constantly screaming: JEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANN! every fricken second, I actually like him now, but one character I haven't liked just because..she's well..I don't know I just never warmed to her, was Jean Grey.

    Jean is either dead, all powerful or evil.

    And of course I have my favourite namely Emma Frost..(prolly why I hate Jean LOL)

    Oh yeah by the way for bashing Wolverine you get: [1 Chatban Token] :biggrin:
  • cybersoldier1981cybersoldier1981 Posts: 2,501 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Don't use smart quotes in your text editor if you plan on copy-pasting to the forums. They aren't compatible with the forum's character set, and get broken, turning into question marks.

    Found out too little, too late.

    "Bub" means "baby", though I can't remember what language it originates from. It's also used as a term of endearment in those countries. In some areas, such as parts of Western Canada (where does Wolverine come from again?), it's used in much the same manner as "dude", "buddy" or "bro".

    I don't know if calling everyone he meets 'baby' is more, or less disturbing.
    Nope, just a common soldier. Never made rank above Sergent.

    He serves with the 1st Canadian Parachute Battalion during D-Day, and the CIA, before being recruited by Team X, a black ops unit [Wolverine (vol. 2) #34]. If that's not a commando, we're debating semantics. Military training nonetheless.
    Nope. Trained in their martial style, and his sensei tried to instill the way of the samurai in him. He even tried to learn. I know how to use a broadsword, that doesn't make me a knight.

    OK, 'trained in the way of the samurai', and not a card-carrying samurai. You can teach me long range marksmanship and I won't be a sniper, I get it.
    Nope. It was wolverines, and it was revealed that that was just a made up story that he told someone else about "a boy". It was heavily implied that said boy was Logan, but never outright said. And it was fiction within the fiction anyways.

    "Lupus sapiens." Look into it. Wolverine #310, debut of Romulus... another cheap shoehorn in the Wolverine pitch of feces.


    Nope. Most of the crap he's done, he never did. A lot of it was memory implants from when he was a test dubject of Department H. I'm pretty sure he still isn't 100% sure which are true or not.

    But you also say..

    Murdered countless thousands, including innocents?

    So... I need a citation where he murdered all these innocent people. Not that I don't believe you, I'm just not sure where that happened. Keep in mind most of what makes him garbage as a character is this sort of lame writing mechanic like 'false memories' that has been done way too much for this character, in order for more shoehorned background origin crap to make him 'cooler' after his popularity plummeted. THAT is my point.
    That's a matter of opinion. Therefore, yes, we can. I like his 80's brown and orange costume. The 90s blue and yellow one is OK. I'll agree that there's something wrong with his hairstyle, but I'm sure there are others that like it.

    And there's someone out there that likes scat films, too. I mean, we're going on sanity here.
    See above. He does know how to use that sword. Do they revoke your drivers license every time you get out of your car and start pushing around a shopping cart?

    Yes, I recall. But, again- it was a moot point thrown into his background to make him 'more awesome' and never came into play until he needed to use the anti-Lupus katana, whatever it was called (and he STILL had to go to Silver Samurai and get trained).

    You sound like you think that Wolverine is what Department H was TRYING for. He wasn't. Or rather, he wasn't finished.

    More stuff that was shoehorned into his story, and I suppose you could 'maybe' call this development- but it wasn't likely brought up until the character lost popularity (read: We grew up).
    You mean "Tony Stark made a gimpy, barely functional tank/suit hybrid out of a massive pile of highly advanced weapons, and then used it as a proof of concept for a far more advanced suit after he got access to his full lab." Your bias is showing here.

    We're talking WEAPON X PROJECT versus a guy with spare parts, and arguing petulance. It's humor, a jab- and yes, my bias is 'anyone but Wolverine'. Tony Stark's just an example of how lame in comparison this 'ultimate project' is.

    Everyone he's been close to has either been killed to get to him, or has turned on him. And you expect him to welcome new friendships with open arms?

    No, I expect him to be a man and NOT be a complete jerk to everyone. 100-200 years of maturity should teach you to be that way, if you have competent writers.

    The only point that you made is that you're a hater of a certain character, and think that everyone else should hate him too, just because you do. I'm not even a huge Wolverine fan, and I've punched several Sentinel-sized holes in your rant.

    Actually, you've done nothing of the sort because you completely missed the point- Wolverine is an AWFUL character, not because of what he inherently is, but because of lazy writers. He's far from the only one, but he's one of the worst with the most hype around him.

    The saddest thing ever- even Deadpool progressed as a character.
  • flyingfinnflyingfinn Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    line2-29-11a-620x775.jpg
    Sniktbubsnikt.
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  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    flyingfinn wrote: »
    line2-29-11a-620x775.jpg
    Sniktbubsnikt.

    Defo gonna be his next fashion statement...I can only imagine, the Brotherhood's face when they see him dressed in that outfit..:biggrin:
  • crypticbuxomcrypticbuxom Posts: 4,443 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Is this supposed to discourage players from making Wolverine clones in the game? Because I can think of other ways to do that. However it requires GMs.
  • bluhmanbluhman Posts: 2,409 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    flyingfinn wrote: »
    Sniktbubsnikt.
    wolverine

    wat r u doin?

    Wolverine

    STAHP
    How to block a user with μblock:
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  • gillfignofignogillfignofigno Posts: 64 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    It comes to my attention that several members of this forum in fact do read comic books, and not the backwards Manga variety. While I understand that some people will argue that Manga are legitimate forms of comic books, I will counter their argument by making armpit noises every time they speak and therefore win the argument forever.

    But today I would like to discuss an 'important' character in the Marvel Universe. His name is Wolverine, or Logan, or Patches, or James Howlett, or whatever gets shoehorned into his origin this coming year.



    If you don't know who Wolverine is, I'm not going to go through his entire origin story to tell you-it's a cluster of garbage with no consistency, and it's only there to validate that this character is someone you should think is awesome, despite his heyday being over and done with. I'll give you the basic run-down. Wolverine is a mutant that can heal almost instantly, which would be a pretty cool power to have because you don't need health insurance but would also suck because you'll never be able to call in sick. Also, he has claws. These claws used to be bone, and totally have been through his entire history and were in no way shoehorned into his story- but now his entire skeleton and claws are coated in an unbreakable metal called Adamantium, which is not to be confused with Adamantane (on a side note, Adamantane is not to be confused with cocaine- trust me). This combination of super-healing, unbreakable bones, and razor claws makes for a pretty intimidating combo. Naturally, since this is SO AWESOME by itself, the writers of Marvel just decided he didn't need much in the way of personality so they made him a rude jerk that says 'bub'- which I'm not even sure was ever a word. This has not changed since the character?s first appearance. He's apparently the 'best there is at what he does', and as far as I can tell that's "claw faces and be an insufferable prick" so he's better than your cat, I guess.



    That's Wolverine, and that's really all you need to know. If you'd just discovered Wolverine in the last 5 years based on what I told you, you'd probably agree that he's one of the most mindless and lame characters ever created. If he were a movie, he'd be one of the Resident Evil films, except with no sound and Braille subtitles. I have several issues with this character. I will be honest, and you probably won't believe me- but I never actually liked him, even when he was 'cool' and I was 13 years old. Back then, being a comic book nerd was bad enough. It's even worse when other comic book nerds are picking on you because you don't like Wolverine- I was a lame nerd who liked Iron Man. Lucky for you kids, nowadays there are movies that made comic books cool and now most of the people who gave us nerds the most hell are all of a sudden a comic book scholar. Anyway, I'm getting in the weeds- here's why I hate this guy.



    -He has never once developed as a character. Since he first popped his claws he's been exactly what I described above- an abrasive jerk that picks fights with everyone. Now, this is where most comic book scholars come in and tell me all about his origin, and I have to shut you down. Wolverine has never progressed as a character, he has never developed, he has never changed. Shoving a massive amount of stories into his background does not count as development; it?s just a cheap attempt to keep justifying him as an 'awesome' character as he is now. It's like making someone sit through through the Star Wars classic trilogy, and they don't like it- so you keep shoving the prequels and the Clone Wars in their face to make them accept its current status as the greatest thing ever put on film since naked boobs were recorded. And yes, his background is just as absurd and silly as the Star Wars prequels are- with twice the shoehorned stupidity. He's a commando, a samurai, he's descended from wolves, he's done all kinds of crap because when he was first introduced, no one clarified his background and he's apparently like 200 years old or something. Shoehorning in origin stories is fine and all, but in the end it does nothing but make the character seem more lifeless- in all the experiences he's had in life, the logical progression would be that Wolverine would understand that it?s not a good idea to be a douchebag and pick fights with everyone you meet.



    -He looks stupid.
    And you can't argue this with me: All the guy's costumes make him look like a reject Thundercat at a Mardi Gras parade. Especially when he's not wearing his weird mask thing- who does their hair like that? Look, after living as long as this guy has, you'd think not styling your hair like a complete loon would be standard for someone trying to keep a low profile. But then again, after that long you've probably become some jaded attention-whoring hipster and you style your hair like a putz and pretend you don't even care. Either way, there's no reasonable excuse for this... and I don't even think it's possible according to the laws of physics to style your hair like this without the use of dangerous New Jersey styling products. Not even that, but his costume makes no sense at all. I don't even know what's going on there, are those like... ears or wings or what? It doesn't make me think 'Wolverine'. It makes me think 'masquerade ball for mentally challenged youngsters'.



    -He's not a badass, he won a super-power lottery. At some point, Wolverine's powers were reasonable. You shot the guy with a gun, a minute later he's back in the fight. But, since this is Wolverine we're talking about, more was heaped onto the pile. Sooner or later, he's not healing wounds- he's just Jason Voorhees of the Marvel Universe. Guys are ripping his guts out, severing his head, and incinerating the guy and he's on the next panel looking badass with his claws out saying 'bub' like some drunken hobo fighting over half of a ham sandwich. In truth, with his super-healing, the claws and adamantium is a moot point; the guy could have a tube sock full of nickels and he'd win every fight. That's not badass, that's just powers- no matter what happens, he'll recover. Apparently, he's also a 'trained samurai swordsman' which is awesome, I guess- except this is 2013 and YOU ARE USING CLAWS THAT COME OUT OF YOUR FIST. Those are a little different than a samurai sword, in the same way a car is different than a shopping buggy. And it still makes no sense- about half of Wolverine's comic appearances are about him losing his temper and trying to claw someone to shreds for being in the same X-Men comic book as him. That's kind of not how I picture a Samurai following Bushido. Not to mention at one point, Wolverine was in the military which is something that rarely gets mentioned, much less factored into the character's skillset. As I made it clear before, in combat, Wolverine's tactics are the same as your average house cat: Pop claws, make noise, jump at enemy, and claw relentlessly. Again, this is a military-trained soldier and Bushido-adhering Samurai, folks? and for all his training, this poor dumb hump seems to be moving in reverse. According to some, Wolverine also has a 'berserker rage' mode; which, in my personal experience, is less a superpower and more a sign that you should stop drinking.



    -He is the worst X-Man ever. Wolverine's contribution to the X-Men was like no other. By that, I mean that no other member of the X-Men was as useless and counter-productive as he was. Wolverine was so bad for the X-Men, he was a detriment- you'd almost think it would make more sense for him to join the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants and fight the good guys outright, especially considering something called the 'Brotherhood of Evil Mutants' has about as much delicate subtlety in the name as Wolverine has in everything he does. His position in the X-Men is made even more idiotic by the fact that the main villain of the X-Men was a dude who controlled magnetism, and it lends credibility to Magneto's compassion that he took pity on Wolverine's mental deficiency and didn't turn him into a hairy lawn sculpture with a gesture of his hands (Well, he did- once). Nearly every X-Men comic book was Wolverine acting like a jerk to everyone he worked with for no reason. That would be great if he were part of some antihero mercenary organization full of hardened veterans- but no, this is the X-Men: a group of heroes dedicated to bringing together those with different powers for the good of humanity and teaching mutual respect for both humans and mutants. If this were a school of art appreciation, Wolverine would be a drunken hillbilly that shows up and plants his bare buttocks against a Monet and rips a fart.



    -He's not even a good concept in the fictional setting. If I were a high-ranking military general, and someone told me that they're going to spend billions of dollars to create the ultimate living weapon, I'd have some pretty high hopes for the final result. If in the end, your show & tell at the Big Super Secret Badass Killers Expo is a Hairy, mentally unstable, narcissistic douchebag with claws on his fists- I'm going to beat you so hard, you'll be the only guy rolling around Heaven in a wheelchair. All that planning, and that's all you can come up with? In a fictional setting with cyborgs, robots, lasers, and all kinds of advanced weapons technology- you show up with something that is supposed to scratch our problems to death. Tony Stark made the ultimate murder-suit in a cave with a calculator and a broken lawnmower- and this 'Wolverine' thing is the best that Department H can come up with- to fight the Incredible Hulk? I'm starting to think these guys just went home and asked their 9-year-old kids for ideas.



    -He's practically a drama queen. Countless times Professor Xavier and Jean Grey attempted to help Wolverine unlock his lost memories, and he pushed them away. Even worse, multiple other characters reached out to him to help him reconcile his past- and he pushed them away, often violently. He chose to intentionally dwell on how awful his past was once he figured it all out. However, as I recall, Wolverine never did anything that was really that bad- he just chooses to wallow in self-pity and be a grumpybutt to everyone that tries to say "hey, we're on your side and we've got your back"- which is way more than he's ever done for anyone without insulting them before, during, and after the fact. Now that he knows everything, and he's faced it, and had a chance to mature from it- he's basically just the same jerk, and I'm starting to wonder if this 'loner' thing is a personal choice or a consequence of being an angsty man-child.



    Well folks, already I've made my point. The sad fact about it is I can, without any ego whatsoever, say that I've put more thought and effort into this writeup than anyone put into Wolverine's character development... and I came up with this while I was on the toilet at work.

    'Snikt'

    umadbub.jpg
  • chaosdrgnz43chaosdrgnz43 Posts: 1,675 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Why so much hate for a character? Also, you should have just posted this in your blog or somewhere. Many people here a Wolverine fans.

    Well, unless you want to start a Mt.Everest-scale debate.
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  • pallihwtfpallihwtf Posts: 677 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Hulk vs. Wolverine was awesome! HULK SMASH CLAW PEOPLE.

    I don't know much about him or Marvel characters, but Wolverine's regeneration is ridiculous. He seems like Ao'Qephoth (In Burst alert) of Marvel Universe. :biggrin:

    *stabs through his heart*

    omg y u no die??

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    @Pallih in game
  • cybersoldier1981cybersoldier1981 Posts: 2,501 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Why so much hate for a character? Also, you should have just posted this in your blog or somewhere. Many people here a Wolverine fans.

    Well, unless you want to start a Mt.Everest-scale debate.
    It's not really hate for a character. It's hate for the lazy writing.

    Also, this is a comic book game's forum.

    I thought I'd share.

    Especially since this gets people chat-banned in Zone.

    *Snicker*
  • meedacthunistmeedacthunist Posts: 2,961 Arc User1
    edited May 2013
    *shrug*
    Every comic book universe needs its ultimate Mary Sue.
    DC has Batman, Marvel has Wolverine.
  • pion01pion01 Posts: 758 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    In my opinion, I agree with a lot of what you say, and despite that Wolverine is at times an enjoyable character.

    Personally, I didn't like him when he first debuted, and for a long time after because he's a walking caricature and cliche. But that's the bad writing, which is a huuuuuuuuuuuge problem for a lot of the X books. Most of them are flat out bad, and the same goes for most if not all of the characters. Every single one of them is either a ripoff or a bland archetype.

    When they are written well it's a different story.

    When you get junk like Romulus, Madelyne Pryor, Vulcan, Cable, Psylocke, Carol Danvers, etc. or whenever they try to make some absurdly complicated or stupid **** backstory like the Summers Family Tree or anything Grant Morrison has ever written that takes place in 616 or Earth 1/One (except Seven Soldiers) it gets absurd. The X books, and most comics, are great when they're character stories or adventures, but when they tackle sudden mysterious previously unknown character histories they get stupid fast. I blame the fans cuz the eat that crap up. The only one that's actually been able to pull that off consistently has been Flash and I have no idea why, because its usually the most ridiculous. That might actually be a part of it, refuge in audacity and all that.

    When Wolverine is taken as a character, and written as an individual rather than a walking cliche, he's actually quite good, has great motivation, a genuinely conflicting inner struggle - both stemming from the knowledge that everyone he's ever known has died or will die - has a lot of natural personality - distant, confrontational, generally removed - due to his experiences of life being fleeting, and losing so many, and is actually pretty deep character in that he tries to be a decent individual, but he's also a war vet that's seen a lot of really nasty stuff go down, and will try to do the best thing even if it may not be the right thing because sometimes there is no happy ending.

    But when he's written as "the best there is at what I do" he's garbage. This all really hit me with Ultimate X-men #41 which is a great example of this, because the cover is all "I'm Wolverine and I'm a badass rrrrrrRRAAAARGHH!!!!!" but then the issue itself is not. It's him sad, with a 1000 yard stare, then a moment of sincerity and trying to get it right, justification, rationalization, and finally determination.

    And sometimes the most interesting thing about the character is that he is a Mary Sue and knows it, and that he puts as much pressure on himself as he does because of it. But when he just IS a Mary Sue, it's awful.
  • rexcelestisrexcelestis Posts: 194 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Can anyone offer up any well written Wolverine stories?

    I know I really enjoyed "Wounded Wolf" in Uncanny X-Men v.1 #205, but it might have just been the gorgeous art by Windsor-Smith
    a
  • kittyotixkittyotix Posts: 55 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Hello,
    I dont really know much about wolverine, except from the films (oooh Hugh Jackman), but I do have to say, the original post had me in fits of laughter. Not because I disagreed or agree with it, but because it was so funnily written. Cybersolder, you should go into writing scripts, you have a talent :)
    I'd buy a book / comic if I knew you had written in.
    Ta Ta
    K
    :smile:
  • d0m1nusdrak3d0m1nusdrak3 Posts: 242 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Wait Wait...are we talking about A Wolverine?
    wolverine-paws.jpg

    Or THEE Wolverine
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  • vitalityprimevitalityprime Posts: 478 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I always find it odd when people go so far out of their way to hate on something.

    It makes no sense.
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  • cybersoldier1981cybersoldier1981 Posts: 2,501 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I always find it odd when people go so far out of their way to hate on something.

    It makes no sense.
    Some lol'd. That was the point.

    I dislike the character.

    But... I'm starting to see why it gets people ignored in Zone chat. A bit sillier if you ask me. Makes even less sense.

    It's a fictional character, darlings- do take this for what it is.
  • vitalityprimevitalityprime Posts: 478 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Some lol'd. That was the point.

    I dislike the character.

    But... I'm starting to see why it gets people ignored in Zone chat. A bit sillier if you ask me. Makes even less sense.

    It's a fictional character, darlings- do take this for what it is.

    I see.

    As I read through the OP...it came off as a well thought out, serious rant.

    That being said...I would never care to ignore or try to ban someone for voicing their opinion.

    I'm just saying it's odd to put so much energy into something you hate...in my opinion.

    To each their own.
    _________
    VARIANT



    "Nearly all men can withstand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."

    -Abraham Lincoln-
  • solardynamosolardynamo Posts: 139 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    There certainly is a whole bunch of opinion within that wall-o-text but I appreciated the general humor overall.

    I really don't want to counter each and every item forum-style so I'll just be more general and say that I think you missed a whole bunch of aspects of the character from over the years. There was the recovering memories work he was doing when he first came to the X-men, breaking free from being a loner and learning to work more with a team, trying suppressing his "animal instincts" and working to have some code of honor (his original time in Japan), or even just coming to terms with being the subject of what amounts to horrific experimentation in his past.

    I suppose I could say that Tony Stark is essentially the same egocentric character he's always been or Captain America is still the boy scout from from the 50's. Even if I open any book these days...Hulk is still smashing, Batman is still brooding, Superman is still...well you get the idea. The same arguments could be made about any of these characters from a general sense.

    There's certainly more to all of them, but I suppose you have to like the character to want to look past the surface (and you need to read a lot of books, but that's a whole different matter.)

    Cheers
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  • flyingfinnflyingfinn Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited May 2013
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  • trailturtletrailturtle Administrator Posts: 5,496 Perfect World Employee
    edited May 2013
    Can anyone offer up any well written Wolverine stories?

    The first few years of the Wolverine standalone series were good (when he was in Madripoor as Patch), and the sequence where Rachel Summers was starting to go Dark Phoenix had a really good portrayal of Wolverine. Pretty much if it was in the Chris Claremont era, it was well-written.
  • flyingfinnflyingfinn Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Old man Logan.
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  • cybersoldier1981cybersoldier1981 Posts: 2,501 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    flyingfinn wrote: »
    Old man Logan.
    ^^^^

    A thousand times THIS.

    GREAT story. Even if a little psychotic... it was awesome.
  • gamehobogamehobo Posts: 1,970 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Pretty much if it was in the Chris Claremont era, it was well-written.

    Chris Claremont does ONE thing.. ONLY ONE THING.

    Hello female character.. How about I give you a massive power boost. End Story.
  • randomchance4242randomchance4242 Posts: 195 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Not true, Gamehobo. Chris Claremont also does one other thing...

    "PHEW! Almost got me! It's a good thing ah'm invulnerable while ah'm blasting!"

    "For heaven's sake, Sam we know! You don't have to tell us each time!"

    "Sorry, Miss Braddock! Ah guess it's jest a habit."

    "That's not important! Now let me concentrate! This psychic knife is the sum total of my telekinetic abilities..."

    :biggrin:
  • pion01pion01 Posts: 758 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    No, Hobo's right. Claremont does one thing. Be awful.
  • gamehobogamehobo Posts: 1,970 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Jean Grey + Claremont = Phoenix
    Storm + Claremont = I made 3 superstorms that covered Earth!
    Psylocke + Claremont = Betsy is immune to all forms of manipulation (from her brother who's powers now affect siblings..?)

    Sage
    Kitty
    X-23

    If Chris Claremont wrote her once you can bet she's been power boosted while mind controlled.
  • ashensnowashensnow Posts: 2,048 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Loved the OP. Laughed out loud. Don't agree with all of it, but more power to you (I've never particularly like Wolverine either).


    Bub is used WAY before Wolverine.

    Anyone remember Bugs Bunny, "What's the hubub Bub ?"

    The term was used fairly frequently in those old cartoons. From context it seemed to be equivalent to, "bud," or, "buddy."

    Oh, and Jaybezz, you say it as if giving massive power to scantily clad women were a bad thing...

    'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
  • taintedmesstaintedmess Posts: 446 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    gamehobo wrote: »
    Psylocke + Claremont = Betsy is immune to all forms of manipulation (from her brother who's powers now affect siblings..?)

    Was that not just the summers brothers who all have basically same power any ways (energy absorption and redirection).

    Also as Psylocks not in her own body any more are they even siblings any more (from a biological stand point atleast)

    Sage
    Kitty
    X-23

    .

    I quite like all 3 of them as characters specially X-23 even if she is basically just a wolverine reboot
  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I know I'm going to come off as very shallow for saying this but...

    Wolverine's hot. Rawrrr. There I said it. Go ahead and judge me. I don't care!

    But yes he can come off as an abrasive jerk, and demerit points for him being a homewrecker (though some of the blame could placed on Jean for giving in heh heh).

    There's also the fact that he's practically unkillable, and seemingly immortal. He doesn't seem to age and because he can't die, there seems to be no risk factor to every fight he's in and you know for a fact that he's going to come out okay either way. Apart for some instances where he's been subject to anti-healing factor, or one fight with a villain whose name I can't remember during Civil War era, where his powers involved injecting some incapacitating substance into someone's pores, namely Wolverine's, and that took him out completely. Spidey was around at the time (with this god-awful power armor that Stark made for him, the one with three mechanical legs). Either way, he just can't die.

    Though just to list out some of his redeeming qualities, he does have a heart at least, and some moral fiber. During Civil War he refused to stay neutral like the rest of the mutants did regarding the registration act and decided to hunt down Nitro for the children he killed during the school bombing. He objected when Cyclops wanted to get mutant children involved in combat.

    Also regarding him refusing to have his memories restored, maybe he's afraid remembering all of the atrocities he did during his time as Weapon-X. Such disconnected memories would no doubt feel alien and potentially traumatic. At the end of the M-Day story arc, he did get his memories fully restored, and he didn't take it very well from what I remember.
  • zedbrightlander1zedbrightlander1 Posts: 3,797 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I always find it odd when people go so far out of their way to hate on something.

    It makes no sense.

    When I was a a much younger man I could have written a rant like this. Not about Wolverine. My rant energy would have had to been used on Star Trek. Also, I only had TOS to rant on back then, so it would have been easier to manage.

    But not these days. It's too exhausting.

    In fact, just making these few comments are making me tired enough to go take a nap. { yawn }
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  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,314 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Wolvie did indeed start off as the caricature you describe. Later, John Byrne, determined not to let a fellow Canadian sink the way Wolvie was, rewrote him to make him a better character.

    Of course, since then it's all been stripped away and he's become the same caricature again, only more so. (In the wake of Civil War, he once confronted the now-overpowered Nitro, and got blown the frak up. All that was left was his skeleton and the brain inside his adamantium-lined skull. And he got better.)

    As for his being an embarrassing product of the Weapon X Program - why do you think the whole thing got classified and covered up afterward? They did their best to sweep that mess under the rug...
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  • rexcelestisrexcelestis Posts: 194 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    jennymachx wrote: »
    But yes he can come off as an abrasive jerk, and demerit points for him being a homewrecker (though some of the blame could placed on Jean for giving in heh heh).

    What? Really? I thought the whole Emma/Scott thing broke up Jean and Scott. I didn't realize Wolvie and Jean had a thing.

    Man, stop reading X-men comics for 15 years and you miss all the drama.
    a
  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    What? Really? I thought the whole Emma/Scott thing broke up Jean and Scott. I didn't realize Wolvie and Jean had a thing.

    Man, stop reading X-men comics for 15 years and you miss all the drama.
    a

    If I'm not wrong, Emma came along after Jean was already long gone.
  • rexcelestisrexcelestis Posts: 194 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I had to go look it up.

    It looks like the Emma/Scott affair started in New X-men around 2003. A still married Jean confronts Emma in "Murder at the Mansion," issues #139-141.

    When did the stuff between Jean and Wolvie happen?
    a
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