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So to make melee not a pain, do two things.
bluhman
Posts: 2,410 Arc User
1: Make all melee attacks work like Plasma Beam. That does not mean to make them giant beams of death, mind you, but to make it so that all melee attacks will activate, even when the user has no target. AoE melee attacks just get tweaked to hit areas in front of the user, while Single-Target ones will hit in very small cylinders. This would also coincide with getting rid of that "melee ignores current target" option and forcing it on - so, basically, melee attacks always get thrown at either the tab-selected target, or at the target nearest to the center of the screen that's in range.
So that way, melee suddenly becomes really easy to play. You can now:
note: if you played NW, this should seem familiar. One thing that should not be carried over is the root-and-shifting effect that melee attacks induce on you - throwing a melee strike causes you to stop moving and shift forward a couple feet with each swing. Especially in cases of PvP and enemies who ran away, this became really annoying to deal with.
Also, since they work fundamentally different from every other melee attack, Energy Builders and Lunges would be omitted from these changes.
2: Remove the energy penalty of travel powers on melee attacks. The big problem about melee is that they usually require the user to be able to stay in range to attack. This becomes a problem, because their limited reach means they have to move around more often - either to avoid incoming attacks (like a huge explosion or knockaway punch) or to chase after a person running away. In order to give the melee fighter an edge in this regard, disabling energy penalty on travel powers would enable melee fighters to control their distance from their foes much more finely, while not ruining their energy management.
So that way, melee suddenly becomes really easy to play. You can now:
- Fight enemies in melee without selecting a target (Consider for a moment how popular Hurricane and Epidemic are)
- Charge up a melee smash without having to be in range
- Hit multiple targets with a single attack if you line yourself up well (maybe. Could potentially be tweaked to either throw alternate versions of the attack if a target is selected, or limit the cylinder to only affect 1 target.)
note: if you played NW, this should seem familiar. One thing that should not be carried over is the root-and-shifting effect that melee attacks induce on you - throwing a melee strike causes you to stop moving and shift forward a couple feet with each swing. Especially in cases of PvP and enemies who ran away, this became really annoying to deal with.
Also, since they work fundamentally different from every other melee attack, Energy Builders and Lunges would be omitted from these changes.
2: Remove the energy penalty of travel powers on melee attacks. The big problem about melee is that they usually require the user to be able to stay in range to attack. This becomes a problem, because their limited reach means they have to move around more often - either to avoid incoming attacks (like a huge explosion or knockaway punch) or to chase after a person running away. In order to give the melee fighter an edge in this regard, disabling energy penalty on travel powers would enable melee fighters to control their distance from their foes much more finely, while not ruining their energy management.
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Is this what you were thinking while you were doing Forum Malvanum?
Grappling/Wrestling Power Set Suggestion 2012-2013
How a Wrestling Power Set Can Work
Unless you're using 360? PbAoE attacks, it's not easier to hit your target without target lock!
Also, our melee attacks have a range of 10 feet.
Especially the energy penalty on travel powers being removed. Would you consider also allowing Melee to suffer less from the in combat speed nerf?
I'm wary about that in combat speed thing for a couple of reasons. Melee would be really fast paced (which it is meant to be) but also it may become "OP"
Regardless I like this idea. And with the way targeting is a little botched in CO with sometimes targeting the wrong opponent who is miles away instead of the one stabbing you, I would like to be able to just scratch/kick/punch enemies without targeting them, but as you said targeting will still be enabled like normal but would allow melee to have more versatility and to feel more engaging..at least in my opinion.
Besides...I'd like to be able to randomly kick another hero...as an emote, even if it did no damage :biggrin:
Can't help feeling though that ranged would perhaps need something..to compete with that..
I know that if this idea was in game I'd find melee a lot more fun to play. As my two melee chars VNKitty and Black Diamond, don't see much action..
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As long as I can still lock on, I'm fine with this.
But I still see a problem with all melee attacks becoming AoEs, because that would defeat the purpose of single-buffing specializations.
Melee was OP back when it was buffed by Strength while ranged wasn't buffed by anything, aside from the super stats damage buff. Your choice was to have either a safe distance or more damage.
That didn't work as good in the game as it looks written. It certainly didn't feel balanced when missile and laser beams were generally outdamaged by mere punches.
I don't think the option to use melee attacks, or ANY kind of attacks, without target lock makes them OP, because that comes with the possibility to miss the target.
I think Plasma Beam is a good starting point. You can swipe it around to hit many targets easily, or lock on to make sure you don't miss a specific one. But not being able to aim up or down, even with a target locked on, is very inconvenient. That should be looked into.
Only problem there is that you can trigger a cooldown even if you miss your target.
Well yeah the once single target melee attacks would have to still home in on their target but now you can charge up and swing without having to be in the right range so you can charge up while you come up to the enemy and unleash it only landing if you are at the right range. You also have to remember we automatically turn around to do our attacks towards our target so you can't ever screw it up as long as you're in range.
I do like the more fluid feel Diablo 2 or FPS style of combat where you can miss and actually dodge enemy ranged attacks by just stepping aside but that is kind of not possible right now.
Grappling/Wrestling Power Set Suggestion 2012-2013
How a Wrestling Power Set Can Work
Here is something they should do IMO:
Let us charge the power from OUTSIDE THE MELEE RANGE (You still need your target) and then you can move close to deliver the hit. Now you can start charging the power from melee range only. (you can still move away during the charge, and be back to melee range to hit the target)
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Grappling/Wrestling Power Set Suggestion 2012-2013
How a Wrestling Power Set Can Work
For click powers this idea is not very usefull, but for charge powers the charging could be made to work when out of melee range, but the actual hit work depending on if you are in melee range or not. The maintain powers that are not already working like this would benefit too.
I don't think this these ideas will solve all the melee/ranged inequality, for a lot of builds energy is a non issue, and the working out of melee range will only benefit melee a little.
One problem I foresee, now that I think about it, is how to implement melee attacks to ignore the energy debuff put on your characters, since if anything, it proves to be a debuff to how well returns on energy builders, energy unlocks, and forms work. Of course, one of those is melee specific, and the other has a mechanic that will literally generate energy for the user over a maximum of 8 seconds.
It's the same general problem I actually see with dealing with melee and travel power slowdown - as soon as you get hit, that effect will activate. There's no real way to counteract that unless you like had either a specific melee travel power or buff to brawler form (and where would that leave the tanks and hybrids?)
As for targetting issues of today, there is the "melee ignores selected target" option, but I don't think I've actually had much luck with it.
That's definitely a problem - that also plagues NW, in fact. And it's way worse there, because like everything you use there has a recharge. Meanwhile, in CO, I can only think of like 2 or 3 melee attacks that have recharge, and at least one that's already untargetted (thunderclap).
Basically, if anything, if a non-targetted melee system was implemented here, it'd actually be less of a problem than it is in other MMOs. How about that.
Eye of the Storm and Sword Cyclone are also untargetted .. maybe also one of the reasons why those are my favourite melee powers