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Time to try the carrot?
morvian3520
Posts: 4 Arc User
Let me start this by saying I only recently came back to CO. I tried it in beta but couldn't even run it on the computer I had at the time. I was disappointed but went back to playing CoH and didn't worry too much about it.
Keep in mind that CoH at that time was not what it eventually became. Champions had a lot of things that it did better and promised to do better...heck that it still does better. I'm having a blast playing CO. The lore is great, the combat is exciting, and freeform characters are so refreshing compared to the much more restrictive design in most MMOs today.
Now, is it worrying that the developers here haven't posted in a long time? Yes. Is it troubling that updates are not following the trajectory that they used to? Yes. Looking at the history of this game, there were some really great additions in the past. It'd be great to see more awesome content be added. There is so much more of the Champions IP to work from. There are amazing features that STO and NWO have that would be incredible in this game. But...Cryptic needs to remember that we are here in order for them to give us that stuff.
In looking at the boards I see a lot of negativity and complaining. I don't recall ever seeing a company change their business model - or do anything for that matter - to appeal to unappreciative customers that whine at them all day. I'm sure that many of you, like myself, have worked at least one job where you had to interact with customers. Which ones did you go out of your way to help? The friendly and/or understanding ones. Why not show Cryptic what we do like?
To that end, I think we ought to show appreciation for this game in two big ways:
1.) An in game rally. A big one. Get as many people together in one spot at one time as we possibly can and have costume contests and prizes and just generally demonstrate that we exist. This is an important way to show that we care about Champions and want to see it grow. All we have to do is play it.
2.) A forum thread discussing all the good things about Champions. This thread would be what we point prospective players to, what we point developers to, what we point gaming news sites to. We want people to know what we love in CO and why.
The stick clearly hasn't worked. Doom and gloom hasn't got any attention. Why not try the carrot?
Keep in mind that CoH at that time was not what it eventually became. Champions had a lot of things that it did better and promised to do better...heck that it still does better. I'm having a blast playing CO. The lore is great, the combat is exciting, and freeform characters are so refreshing compared to the much more restrictive design in most MMOs today.
Now, is it worrying that the developers here haven't posted in a long time? Yes. Is it troubling that updates are not following the trajectory that they used to? Yes. Looking at the history of this game, there were some really great additions in the past. It'd be great to see more awesome content be added. There is so much more of the Champions IP to work from. There are amazing features that STO and NWO have that would be incredible in this game. But...Cryptic needs to remember that we are here in order for them to give us that stuff.
In looking at the boards I see a lot of negativity and complaining. I don't recall ever seeing a company change their business model - or do anything for that matter - to appeal to unappreciative customers that whine at them all day. I'm sure that many of you, like myself, have worked at least one job where you had to interact with customers. Which ones did you go out of your way to help? The friendly and/or understanding ones. Why not show Cryptic what we do like?
To that end, I think we ought to show appreciation for this game in two big ways:
1.) An in game rally. A big one. Get as many people together in one spot at one time as we possibly can and have costume contests and prizes and just generally demonstrate that we exist. This is an important way to show that we care about Champions and want to see it grow. All we have to do is play it.
2.) A forum thread discussing all the good things about Champions. This thread would be what we point prospective players to, what we point developers to, what we point gaming news sites to. We want people to know what we love in CO and why.
The stick clearly hasn't worked. Doom and gloom hasn't got any attention. Why not try the carrot?
Post edited by morvian3520 on
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We tried the carrot. I consistently gave money to champions online.. more when it went F2P and even gave them a huge huzzah when they promised to update Telepathy. They get more and do less.
"The customer is always wrong".. is a business strategy that never survived commercial darwinism
We can shout 'we are here, we are here' all we want, we can organize player events (which have been done; various online radio shows often have gatherings in-game, costume contests happen almost daily, PvP tournaments might become a thing) and we can make our presence known on the forums, and yet all Cryptic will do is throw a few vehicles our way, fix a bug, break something else and storm off to go hang out with the STO and Neverwinter communities.
AngelofCaine's memorial... as far as I know, only Trailturtle showed, and that was one of the biggest player gatherings I've witnessed in my years of playing CO.
For some people the doom and gloom is all they live for.
A Prootwaddle is one of the weirder player-character races in "The Fantasy Trip", Steve Jackson's first published role-playing game.
I agree with point 1...
Point 2 I agree with, but only if you also add suggestions on how to improve the things it already does great (Fix costume bugs, improve Nemesis System)
For point 1, do a rally like the one we had when CoH closed? that could gather some positive attention.
However, I can't appreciate that they basically know they have the "monopoly" right now on superhero MMO's. This game has basically been stagnate in terms of content for some time now...and they know they can get away with it...because this is really the only superhero MMO where you can actually create the character you want.
I will support the former by paying the $15 whenever I feel like playing this game for a week or so...but that's as deep as my support will go for this game.
VARIANT
"Nearly all men can withstand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
-Abraham Lincoln-
We all know how it goes by now:
On one side you have people saying we need to show some good faith in Cryptic despite their mess-ups.
On the other side you have people saying that has been done too many times already and it won't work.
This thread will most likely end in a flame war between both sides until it gets locked.
No offense to you OP, you've been away so you don't know this. But this exact issue has been discussed so many times already and it's getting really, really tiring.
I'll be chilling in Caprice if anyone needs me.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
This got me to thinking so I dug through the dev tracker, and other than Trailturtle (Community Manager) and Lordgar (who posts PTS patch notes), no other dev has posted anything on the forums since Splosions made a post on December 20th, over 4 months ago.
No offense intended toward Trailturtle who is trying his hardest, but how bad must things be if the team doesn't even want to talk to us anymore? I, as a player, find it extremely difficult to invest money in this game while the future is about as clear a asphalt.
....
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
Pretty much this, except the part about Caprice.
enjoy cybering cat girls and angel demons. :P
This is what I was talking about. We had so many people show up to a rally that gaming sites actually took notice. This wouldn't be your ordinary costume contest sort of thing.
And I appreciate why people are in such a negative mood towards Cryptic, I do. But nothing will change if we do nothing.
So, as the customers... who's going to head up marketing? We need to advertize to the business that there are customers here willing to pay for things if they'd just put up these things to buy.
Oh wait, no, they know that. We've been telling them that for a long, long time now.
You seem to think that they gave up on us because we're ornery. In fact it's the opposite. We're ornery because they gave up on us.
Sig'd for truth.
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
Hip Hop Hamster is impressed with your use of logic and reason in the face of blind optimism.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
The people who are grimacing at your bright ideas, there is a kernel of useful data in what they're telling you. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't go right ahead and do these things. What you should take away from this thread is a clearer picture of the odds. But there's nothing wrong with a show of support for Champs. People will come together, maybe some special events or contests will be thrown together (as often happens), maybe a few new friendships might be made (as often happens too). How are these things bad? How are they a waste of time? Compared to making yet another broken record thread about the same old complaints, how are you wasting anyone's time? Bring a little bit of joy into the game world, and maybe you'll convince a few people to stay a while longer, maybe even subscribe. Community has a lot to do with retention rates. Lots of City of Heroes vets can attest to that.
Over on the Titan Forums, the main place for City of Heroes refugees to hang out, the "Save City of Heroes" sub-forum has a tagline: "We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time." How's that for hopelessly optimistic? There's a lot of requisite lamenting, but a heck of a lot of comradeship too. Over on those forums, people who are playing Champs nowadays often joke about how morale around Titan is ten times better than the CO forums, and CoH is a notch below "maintenance mode", wouldn't ya say? :biggrin:
Smackwell said it's the devs who should attract us, but I think he's only half-right. Paragon Studios was one of the darlings of the industry, but they often gave their community all the credit. We were good to them and we were bad to them, but there was definitely a sense of "peer pressure" on the forums to be smart about your feedback, and to keep your head and a sense of humor about things, and too much hyperbole was frowned upon. I think a lot of things that were frowned upon in the CoH community are the order of the day here. The devs have a lot of explaining to do, sure. But at some point, you've got to take your head out of the sand and realize the community is embracing a feedback loop of toxicity.
By the time the game closed we had a lot of practice sticking together and inviting the devs into our fold. We didn't just start doing that when the game closed. And to this day, former devs of Paragon Studios are still sending and accepting invitations to get together with groups of players in the areas they're in or traveling through. Last Christmas I bought presents for devs. I have devs on various friend lists. Not because I'm someone important, not because I'm particularly special. It's just how we rolled in City of Heroes.
For any of you who want to roll like that over here, you have all of my respect. Anything you need to help out with a rally or event, just ask, I'll pitch in if I can. Even if nothing ever changes on the dev's side of the street, in the end you will realize how many important things the community is actually very much in control of.
I'm just happy there's still a good super hero game to play. Oh, believe me, I'm grateful for that.
[SIGPIC]Captain Electric and the Sapien Spider[/SIGPIC]
"YES, PLEASE"
Vote YES for the Foundry in Champions Online.
@Captain-Electric | CoH/Virtue veteran | Proud new Champion
You're new here, yeah? This community didn't grow out of toxicity. We didn't all get together based on how much we hate the developers. We have a pretty tight community here, and that community is completely based on how much we love this game. Was my previous post a bit harsh? Yeah, maybe. But was that post on the one single video game that I play that I can call my very favorite? Bet your ****. My post is bitter because it's my favorite game, and it's been abandoned.
We've been good to our developers. We've had great developers be very present on the forums. And we love that! Lot's of good back-and-forth, very candid conversations... and then that developer goes to another game. Fine.
Then we get a couple of new guys! Cool! We all talk, share good times, talk about balance, talk about powers, it's pretty sweet. We have a very straight channel right into the development cycle, on a somewhat personal level. We can tell them our personal positives and negatives and they can use them or not. Good.
A few months ago, those guys disappeared. When those guys disappeared, (that is, got pulled off to another project), real development on Champions pretty much stopped. Since that happened, Champions has gotten just-above-maintenance-mode updates. A lockbox, a mission that I can now personally say could be completed in less than half a work day based on the Neverwinter Foundry, and after some seven or eight weeks, we get a big boss to fight.
We fight that boss and we might get a vehicle.. something lots of people don't even care for. We could get an action figure. Them things that don't matter... We walk away from these events just hollow.
Thanks for letting us play this... nothing is different.
Hey maybe show the Champions developer(r) how you roll.
Yeah. A lot of us are. Praise be to Cryptic for welcoming the CoX Refugees by doing nothing more than offering double xp.
Seriously, nothing done for such a bad situation. You'd think someone would care a bit.
I've seen my ideas that I posted in these forums implemented in this game, and I saw some of them in Neverwinter in my first few minutes there.
Walk like a dev, talk like a dev, and let them think your good ideas are one of their own.
So apparently things like fixing one-year-old bugs and correcting typos "stinks" and isn't "practical". That was very enlightening. I shall now swear off making computer games for good.
Honestly this is about more than just getting the devs to say "Oh there's a rally. Maybe we should let them know we still care." This is about getting people outside of Champions to notice us too. Part of the reason that CO receives so little attention has to be the relatively low income compared to STO and very soon NWO. What we need is more players. The unfortunate truth is that the community right now is scaring them away. People need to see that there are still people here that love this game and think it's got a chance at being great.
Which is why we need a rally that's big enough for sites like Massively to cover. We need people that do a google search for Champions to find an article talking about an awesome player event. Not an article talking about how Cryptic barely even talks about CO anymore.
Besides what's the worst that could happen? We all get together and have a great time and nothing changes? So what? At least we had a cool event.
Am I optimistic? Yes, I am. Blind? Of course not. I understand the chances that this sort of effort has of actually making a difference. But the thing is those chances are a lot better than the chances of the threads on the boards where people just talk about leaving if conditions x y and z aren't met.
Oh hey cool! Awesome!
Okay, so now you're gonna go use some special way to word "Fix bugs that haven't been fixed in over a year" so that the devs think it was their idea to fix bugs that haven't been fixed in over a year?
Right?
Oh and could you link to your forum posts of ideas that were implemented in the game? I actually asked in the suggestions forum once if anyone had ever had a suggestion implemented, and no one could honestly say they did... but here you are! Ready to show multiple examples of suggestions that were implemented in the game!
Seriously, doing this would go a long way to giving people some hope around here.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Is it really worth getting hopes up when the ideas are being implemented in a different game? (not touching the argument over where the ideas originate)
Part of the problem since December, 2012.