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Red Winter - Something's working that isn't intended to
rokurocaris
Posts: 1,074 Arc User
The damage counter.
In all other alerts, and previously in Red Winter as well, the damage counter isn't actually counting the players' damage output. At the end of the mission, it shows 200 for everyone, and everyone gets a reward for it.
However, the damage is actually counted in the Red Winter alert now. I noticed that durring its last rotation already, but I thought it might get fixed. I really should have known better. :rolleyes:
Anyway, the working counter means that if a character doesn't deal enough damage, he gets no reward at the end and might not even be counted as having completed the mission! That gives tanks and supporters a very unfair disadvantage! :mad:
So I'm asking Cryptic to "break" the damage counter again, because this is clearly not how it's supposed to work!
In all other alerts, and previously in Red Winter as well, the damage counter isn't actually counting the players' damage output. At the end of the mission, it shows 200 for everyone, and everyone gets a reward for it.
However, the damage is actually counted in the Red Winter alert now. I noticed that durring its last rotation already, but I thought it might get fixed. I really should have known better. :rolleyes:
Anyway, the working counter means that if a character doesn't deal enough damage, he gets no reward at the end and might not even be counted as having completed the mission! That gives tanks and supporters a very unfair disadvantage! :mad:
So I'm asking Cryptic to "break" the damage counter again, because this is clearly not how it's supposed to work!
Post edited by rokurocaris on
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And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
with 3 other 40's in party, melee and ranged.
I got 338 on first, next was the level 27. I had to spam Skarnes bane on the last group with her.
and 388 on second.
Winner has got to be the Level 6 in the second run,with 5 Khusors, he scored 2 pts but he got on the list. It was hilarious seeing this huge crowd of them running around, mobbing... well mobs
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^ This.
Frankly I wished the other weekly alerts also used this mechanic, would certainly lead to less leechers.
Consolidate the currencies! (Please!)
Does your Champion have a theme song? (share it!)
Got a funny in-game screenshot? (share it!)
Please fix the Overdrive energy unlock! (Should help promote thematic build diversity!)
But would that be worth punishing tanks and healers for doing their job insted of trying to be damage dealers?
By Cryptic logic, it might be... :rolleyes:
just do some damge will gert you on the score
this mechanic should be implemented on ALL alerts
fed up with leechers
some sort of mecahanic is needed to deter them
and this seems to work best
the thing is it not hard to do this
hint .. copy/paste...
lol
the logcal solution at this would be that the counter counts also the heal and aggro output
^ This.
Consolidate the currencies! (Please!)
Does your Champion have a theme song? (share it!)
Got a funny in-game screenshot? (share it!)
Please fix the Overdrive energy unlock! (Should help promote thematic build diversity!)
Pity it doesn't run like aggro which counts tanking and healling.
While she has been rescued
what diabolical mastermind
was behind the devious brain-napping of
the Volterrific Dr Cerebellum?
That would require them adding two blocks of code to have it recognize those to add to the score. That is of course the code is "too far ingrained into the game to fix it".
How exactly would they be "punished" if getting on the list at all is enough to score the reward? A tank can't really not score, because trying to tank meaningfully requires doing damage; and the only reason a healer might have to completely refrain from contributing offense in a five-man Alerts is a group so bad it's going to be a fail anyways.
If anything, the question is whether turning on counters on all alerts would actually punish leechers in any way; if you have attacks at all, in order to not score at all, you'd have to be a stupid leecher, to boot.
i think u can build a reasonable list of name and shaming from the scores..
of course allowing for those who main doing support/tanking roles as well as show the futinity of those under a certain level to part take in alerts
by showing their overall contribution via the score shown
a name and shame leech list cen be provided on the forums as others games do for other types of negative gamers
Not on this forum. It is forbidden to post someone's in-game handle without permission here.
:biggrin:
I have all the speeches memorized, don't judge me!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
@Pallih in game
BOOOOOM..... scratch... uh oh...... RUUUUUNNNNN
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(The low-level player, a 12, didn't even score - he got tangled up with fighting mooks while the rest of us were dropping the actual targets.)
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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After the fight I had some insane 6 figure score and the healer only had about 1000 points. How is this fair? The healer gave and equal if not better effort than myself.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Well... one way to make content more difficult is to discourage people from making tanks and healers...
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
If the reward is proportional to the score, the Score should be calculated function of the role/abilities of the character. Damage is not / should'nt be the only compound of this game.
Another fix to do.
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@Moustic in game.
Gold since 2009. Lifetime since May 2012.
I play with freeforms AND archetypes.
1. The counter working does allow people with over-the-top builds to try and "solo score".
2. If you're paying attention, someone trying to do this becomes apparent almost immediately.
3. If even then, you can't score, it really is a case of "learn to play", because if you have an attack power at all, it's trivial to get a shot in against the final trio once you've notice there's a spite solo scorer (he can't both finish Red Dawn solo and be at the trio first).
4. Many people really do need to learn to play if a spite solo scorer can actually shut out 2 out of 4 other level 40s.
"STAHP YOU KILLING EM TOO FAST"
What? I'm helping!
"NOOO"
Free-Former Gentleman 989
xXxspidurrmanxXx 12
halk2000 3
*others left out*
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
@Pallih in game
:cool:
CellarRat33 :: formerly Bsquared
***
"The great thing about glory unending is that it's dirt cheap!" - Tateklys
From the Adventures of Thundrax (canadascott)
***
Yeah, last night I did 9/10ths of the damage on all 3 of the first bosses, and still got shut out. It's not that simple. It's bad when you pretty much directly have to try to solo score to make sure you even get on the board. It's even worse when doing so flat out doesn't work, even with a build that most tanks can't hold threat from because of the extreme dps.
RIP Caine
How about this for simple: have you considered that maybe yioou ran into a bug?
If you don't run into bugs,, it's practically impossible not to get scored if you do damage to the bosses. An 8th level Mind can do it, and that may be the single most useless AT at that level.
That's the point!
Some dev did something with the code that caused Red Winter's damage counter to work like those for open missions instead of those for alerts. That's how bugs come into being.
Now it's up to the devs to take a look into the code of this alert and rewrite it so that the damage counter works as actually intended again.
The problem: Cryptic's default way to deal with bugs is to pretend there are none. :rolleyes:
But it sucks if anyone contributes substantially to a victory and doesn't get a fair reward for their efforts.
While she has been rescued
what diabolical mastermind
was behind the devious brain-napping of
the Volterrific Dr Cerebellum?
If only this actually worked out the way it was supposed to, with players trying to play better, rather than the reality in this game, which is that they give up that theme building nonsense about being the hero you want to be and settle for a nice overpowered cookie cutter build.
Yet another example of a lop-sided system harming the customization it was meant to promote. If they made this "scoring system" work for all alerts, there would be riots in the streets ( but luckily all the rioters would be theme builders and would be dispatched easily ), and what would follow here on the forums is easy to predict: theme builders accusing power builders of ruining the game, and powerbuilders inadvertently or even directly telling theme builders that they're leeching/crybabies. You know, kind of like it is over in the pvp section.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
I'd like something in this game to be 100% working properly. I'd settle with 60%.
what is a "spite solo scorer"?
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Ever been in a grab alert where one or two individuals runs ahead of everyone and clears everything out before the rest of the group gets there, tagging all of the objectives along the way? I'd imagine it's something like that.
I do that constantly. What does spite have to do with it?
Also, what objectives are there in a Grab alert other than "kill em all" ?
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
I take that to mean someone who tries to outscore everyone else by such a degree that they don't get any credit for participating.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Yes but do you do that in an attempt to keep others from scoring?
Objectives like defuse the bombs, rescue the hostages. That sort of thing.
Yeah, in Red Winter I like to see if I can keep other people from scoring. It has nothing to do with spite though, it's just the only part of the game where I can compete with other players like that... reminds me of wow where people would always try to outdo each other on the dps meters, and a certain tank who would tease the dps relentlessly whenever she put out more dps than them.
I'm not worried about it, since the reward from Red Winter sucks, so they're not really missing out on anything if they don't score.
Keeping people from scoring in Grab alerts? Not possible, so no. I rush those because going one group at a time is really boring.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
For Red Winter, there is also the fun in seeing the amount of damage and the speed to take down the bosses a toon can muster. It is also a mini-competition for some and the reward lost by getting shut out is really negligible.
NemCon and Alerts are group events. If you're(the general you're, all the yous here are in the general sense) so pressed for time that you force others in the group to miss out on aspects of the event then why are you in the queue in the first place? The other players aren't there to make sure you have an event to steamroll over them with.
It would be a different story if your group was formed with the intent of competing with one another but the vast majority of NemCon and Alert groups aren't competitive premades. Competion with a group of players that have no idea they're competing for anything isn't sporting and technically isn't a competition at all.
That's right, it is a group event. The reality is, it's a pug. Unless you're willing to take the time and effort to put together a group of people who you know are willing to run at your pace, then you just have to live with the fact that these group events don't run at the speed of their slowest member.
You don't have to compete, you just have to keep up. For Nemcon, that's as simple as paying attention, turning your travel power on, and making sure to get a hit in on every mob that drops questionite. For alerts, all it means is waddling yourself over to the reward drop at the end of the alert. If you can't do that, then why are you in the queue?
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
I seem to recall a little while back when someone said Alerts don't promote team play and people were like "get a load of that guy" and dismissed the notion completely. What a silly thought, right? :rolleyes: inb4 it's somehow Cryptic's fault
Some people think team play means "Everyone does what I want to do". Others realize it means doing what's best for the team. That guy rushing towards the objective? He's doing what's best for the team. That guy who wants everyone to slow down? He's trying to hold the team back so he can get his way. Alerts do promote teamwork, and teach an important lesson to those players who seem to think they deserve to be in charge of the team.
Since you decided to leave the context of those arguments out, I'll go ahead and inject it back in: Alerts promote team play more so than missions do. Oh look, with the context back we even found a solution to your problem! Those people who want a nice slow pace can go do missions. :biggrin:
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Oh look, strawmen. That entire first paragraph is pretty funny and highly hypocritical coming from someone I've personally witnessed standing around in grabs doing absolutely nothing until it was time to collect the reward.
I left no context out. Your supposed injected context isn't actually context whatsoever, it's just your terrible opinion parading around as some sort of fact.
I can see where all of this is heading so I'm just gonna cut it off here.
You seem to have forgotten the topic: Players who like to rush through alerts/nemcon, and the claim that these players are somehow doing something wrong and hurting the play experience of players who don't wish to rush. It's hardly a strawman to refer directly to the stated topic of the conversation. I have in fact come across players in alerts who attempted to order people to either slow down, or not assist the player on the team that was rushing, so when I refer to "That guy...", there is an actual guy, several of them in fact.
Furthermore, in order for that to be a strawman, I would have to be presenting it as though it was the argument that you were presenting. Unless your name is "That Guy" then I don't really think you have much basis for strawman. You were very clearly arguing against rushing, so to respond to you as such is not a strawman.
You don't seem to remember those arguments well at all. They started out with people bemoaning the abandonment of quest zones and claims that people skipping quests were missing out on important information about how to play the game, which people then pointed out wasn't important information at all and how alerts gave much more useful information in regards to team play since they actually require you to be teamed up, while missions are easily done solo.
The context is important because without it one could misconstrue the argument to be about whether alerts, on their own merit, promote team play, which they don't because nothing in the game promotes team play due to the low difficulty that pervades all content. However, the arguments weren't about that, which makes them irrelevant in regards to the relation between rushing and teamwork. If anything, they point out that anyone attempting to go slow and implement team tactics is wasting the team's time, while the rusher is attempting to push real progress for the team.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
If the scoreboard instead rated the group's overall score/time/whatever and compared that to other groups....well that would change everything.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Don't be daft. The scoreboards in Alerts are vestigial from the open mission system they're made from and aren't supposed to mean a damn thing. It only works like this in Red Winter because of dev oversight. (aka a bug) Why else would every other alert out there give placeholder values?
It never fails to happen around here. Normally when a bug pops up there's a general gnashing of teeth about it because ******it Cryptic can't do anything right, but when the bug offers any sort of advantage or element of "fun" people go to any length to justify its existence.