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Massively: Second Wind look at Champions
trailturtle
Posts: 5,496 Perfect World Employee
Beau Hindman, Contributing Editor with Massively, spent some time with Champions as part of his Second Wind series. You can read his column at Massively; we're happy to report the reporter had a good time, especially after discovering Two-Gun Mojo.
Glad you're enjoying Champions, Beau! Go give his column a read, and watch the livestream of his experience as well.
Glad you're enjoying Champions, Beau! Go give his column a read, and watch the livestream of his experience as well.
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and the awkward moment when he tries to rank up rank 3 2GM
It was nice to see a nice review about CO ^_^
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This article really helps.
Kudos to those who brought us this far. Now lets hope that we are still going somewhere.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Doesn't sound like he was actually trying all that hard to notice the difference between F2P and subscription freeform. I'm not sure a review that makes a mistake like that is really going to bee a boon to the game; people might give it a shot with the wrong expectations
And the biggest downfall of champions online is not its present, its the past and future. If you're willing to suspend belief and accept the status quo of Champions Online. This is the article for you.
If you were expecting Cryptic Studios to provide an actual video game (you know.. without extreme bias and extreme prejudice). Then Champions Online IS NOT the game for you.
Yeah..? Well I don't like misinformation. So this article is nothing but conjecture of opinion.
Not that there was already a thread on the subject to merge or anything..
True, I read the article and watched the video, and it did seem like he was a bit wishy washy, and I saw your comment too :biggrin:
I guess, it was just..refreshing perhaps to see some external praise for CO, even if it was an opinion based off customisation and 2GM
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What game review is not opinion ?
I am curious as to what misinformation you refer to. I may need to reread the article and remove my more positive response.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
I feel like "I didn't see much difference between a sub and not" was probably because he subscribed pretty quickly after starting, and so didn't have time to fall into the AT trap. That said? This is the first straight-up, no conditions, unabashedly positive review I've seen of CO since... Well... Ever.
Cool, it almost makes up for "a mild mannered reporter" bashing on us left and right and telling everyone how badly we're suffering.
RIP Caine
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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The mild mannered reporter was spot on, because the journalist delayed writing it till he had more knowledge about the game.
This one is simply a very incomplete review.
Difference between this and the mild mannered reporter's shows only one thing - CO is a churn game, thin on content and fully appealing only to relatively new players but with really low potential for players retention.
It can fool more new people into the game, but they will not stay.
And nothing will change and Cryptic will stay to it's lockboxed temporary content.
It do reminds me my initial experience with CO. It ended after my first toon hit 40.
It would seem SOMEONE in this thread is trying to pick a fight. And is bringing up subjects that serve no purpose to the reason of the thread..
Here's a hint: it's not me.
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Community Rules and Policies -Smackwell
RIP Caine
Shills
from other games and companies that are better not named here yes. Instead of heaping praises upon the product of their company (but i have seen them to do that too) they bad mouth CO every time that they can
And if you read the article responses I also said
I have plenty of good things to say about the game. If you disagree with what I said. Good for you and feel free to post ALL about it. But to speak as if you know me when you clearly do not IS an attack and will be treated as such.
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Community Rules and Policies -Smackwell
... in signatures.
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Community Rules and Policies -Smackwell
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[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
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What's the misinformation? The review is of a new-player experience. He clearly states that. Obviously, as a new player, he's not going to know all the ins and outs of the game.
It would be misinformation if the review made no mention of his status as a player, and acted like this was every player's experience the entire time.
I think it's a good and honest review, but I'm interested in learning which parts you felt were dishonest.
2) After mowing down players with 2GMJ he expresses that he will continue to put points into the power (even though he's spent 4 adv points already in the power).
3) He is creating a character from his personal comic book writing experience and speaks to costumes that are not available to free players, but are purchasable.
4) His level is rather low, and his experience in the game is not from an internal comparative. One of the greatest frustrations of the game is not customization but rather about regulation. He has made one concept character and thus as I said, he is bound to miss ALOT in the game. Specifically how certain powers/builds compare to others.
5) He shows an Adventure Pack (which many players had to pay for at one time) as though it is regular game-mission content. Not as one of three mission chains available.
.. Those are what comes to the top of my head.
1. You're reading too much into it. Your argument is an assumption, and he clearly states that this pertains to the "gun-slinging profession." Anyone taking away anything more from this than "the gun slinging profession is not great until you get Two Gun Mojo" has no one to blame but themselves.
2. Was this part of the livestream? Because I didn't watch that. Did he ever come to the conclusion in the video that he couldn't put points into it?
3. Not sure I understand. In the second paragraph he states that he subscribed. Is this something in the video, as well?
4. The article is very clear about him being a new player. It never claimed to be about comparisons of powersets.
5. That players had to pay for the missions is irrelevant. Again, he's showing how a new player finds all this stuff. Yes, he mentions them as just other missions, but forget everything you know about the game already, and what do they become? Just missions. Level-scaling missions. Does it help a new player, at all, to know that some people paid for this content two years ago? Does it help new players to know that they're not part of a larger story? I don't think so. He says that the missions were one big story arc that took him several game sessions to complete. That, as far as anyone's concerned, is true.
It looks like what you're looking for is someone to make a big huge analysis of the game with bullet-points of all the game's problems, but this article isn't that. This article is about giving the game a second chance long after the last time he tried it. He reported on his experience. That's all.
and ?
Have you read the comments on massively to other games DCUO in particular? How come I have never read any comment on those from such a great critic like yourself? :biggrin:
Anyway your comments are not relevant to that article that i have found ( and I think that my opinion has at least the same value as yours ) it was well done and unbiased no matter what you can think
Wrong lake. Put the bait back in the tackle box.
I agree.. but when they come to the game and expect a set, lets say... Fire (or telepathy), has its OWN version of 2GMJ, they will be amongst the disgruntled (ex?)players.
Yes it was part of the live-stream, and to my memory he did not come to that conclusion.
To rephrase my argument, he is under the impression that he can take his concept and make it come to life in Champions Online (visually) as a silver player. Though there are MANY costumes available to gold that are not available to silver players when he went to the costume creator (not to mention that he got the costumes he was looking for wrong).
And I state as a new player, champions online has a lot to offer. But it is not at all indicative of the Champions Online experience. Specifically since he is selling Champions Online as a game with high replay value (rolling alts) without having played other sets. This is misinformed as any reporter.
Part one, "That players had to pay for missions" is not irrelevant. But please note that I put it in parenthesis as not a major part of my argument.
The argument difference is that these "epic missions" he speaks of.. there are 3. The impression given to readers is that this is regular content after level 15. Misleading.
I can tell you from my very own experience that this didn't turn me into an ex player. When I started playing the fire set, I asked "where is this set's Haymaker?" I don't like DoTs. I like things that go boom real freakin big. Same with the arcane set.
Those are sets I end up not playing. There are still many other sets I do like in the game. If I ended up not liking any of the sets, that's a different story altogether.
Well, at least it was unintentional misinformation. Misinformation nonetheless.
I'll have to watch the video for this part then. If he says specifically that a silver player can use all the costume pieces he shows, then your point stands.
Technically he's not wrong, though. The game does have high replay value when it comes to alts. My seventy-something characters in my roster are a clear indicator of that. If he mentioned high replay value and alts in the same point, I personally can't say I disagree.
Again I think you're reading too much into it. When you bring "impressions" into it, you're bringing in your own interpretation of what was said. I didn't get that impression about it. But on both sides of this argument, it's not easy to be objective about this one. Some people might get that impression, some might not, some might not even care.
Beside the point - Aren't there more than three? Serpent Lantern, Demonflame, Resistance, Aftershock, Whiteout?
When I click the link I get this message:
theravenforce, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:
1. Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
2. If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.
As far as I am aware, my account hasnt been disabled. Could it be I have insufficient privileges?
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[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
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I cite his ignorance, not apathy, as a large reason I dislike the article. I do not feel in any way his ignorance is malicious. (though I do not have proof that massively was not compensated for this article by Cryptic or other involved companies.).
Not wrong and propagandized misinformation can co-exist. I in no way expect any less. I do know from the writer's Twitter account that they he infers that they DO accept money for "reviews" and other news press. But I will not make any accusation in this case until evidence is provided.
The Content expansions have decreased in size. Of which there has been one "mini-expansion" in Vibora Bay; then, three notably smaller adventure packs of Serpent Lantern, Demonflame, then Resistance; then two notably even SMALLER comic series of Aftershock and Whiteout; then the current NOTABLY EVEN STILL SMALLER bevy of alerts specifically "specialized alerts" as in Harmon Industries, Hi-Pan, GRAB, Gravitar. Then specialized Queable (temporary?) mission queues in Until Carrier and Harbinger event.. then the Even Smaller and less developed "event" content.
The argument that there are more than 3 Adventure packs would be non-factual. But that is not to say there have not been releases. But when not seen in context of HOW and HOW MUCH these releases have come it does not paint the bleak picture that is the reality of the current state of Champions Online.
For that matter.. I don't even see where you can report posts anymore.
I was just thinking that perhaps the policy is classed as a privilaged system perhaps? Maybe that's why I can't access it.
Not the first thing to go wrong today, I got chatbanned thanks to this person: Mentella@ravenforce
Apparently having created her was a crime and worthy of a chatban as soon as I logged on lol
My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
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Heh uh... I can't even see it. Don't know when my link got busted but thanks for letting me know, I'll fix it. :P
For what it's worth, it should be on the Announcements section of every forum. Here's the link, anyway: http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/announcement.php?f=90&a=81
I think Cryptic would do better to spend money in advertizing instead of buying reviews, but who knows. While I doubt it's true, all we can do is guess.
I dunno, since that line literally applies to me, it's completely valid.
Anyway, accepting money for an article is different than accepting money for a favorable article. One is "Hey, review our game" and the other is "Hey, lie to your audience."
For what it's worth, I don't see any difference between an Adventure Pack and a Comic Series aside form how they were presented to us years ago. They're basically the same thing.
The fact that our content has diminished in size is off the point. Your initial point was that he presented these missions as a different experience in the game when you get to level 15.
I won't argue the point you're making now; it's obvious less and less attention is being given to expanding Champs content-wise, but it's not relevant to the article or the point you made earlier.
You can't anymore. Best thing to do is send a private message to turtle or a moderator.
He is presenting one of the Adventure Packs (the second largest style expansion, of which there are only three) as though they are regular mission content.
If he had presented one issue of a comic series, or a series of alerts, or one of the queue-able instanced missions I would have less of an issue with it. (Also I dont know if this content was available for the "First Wind")
But it is not an adequate representation of game content to me, but rather a representation of broken promises. I do not expect a new player to know or care about this.. but it my biggest issue with champions online is not the "new player" experience. Cryptic Studios has brought in PLENTY of "new players". But very few stay.
And those who play with me know, I am a roleplayer of a singular toon. Kontrol has a specific story I want to be able to tell on a Superhero MMO. Those who play with me are also single toon players. My friends IRL who have joined Champions Online from the tabletop gaming community want this same experience. Champions Online offers so little to KEEP players. And any "Second View" of the game that doesn't address these things (aka the reason SO MANY PLAYERS have left Champions Online) to me is lacking.
The whole concept of "alting" is almost alien to some people - they create their 1 or 2 big characters, and grind week after week in top-end raids/trials/dungeons.
The whole concept of being able to have your character look the way you want, (instead of how your gear allows you to look), is similarly unknown to them - they think you should only be able to display that L33T piece of armor or weapon if you "earned" it, (that is to say, grinded some particular lair enough times until the RNG gods smiled on you, and allowed said piece of equipment to drop).
They just can't wrap their head around concepts such as charging up a power or maintaining one - They're used to playing the "cooldown game" and simply pressing a key to trigger some power, with almost no variation in how said power is actually used, (there's just the initial key press and that's it).
TBH, I fault the tutorial for some of this confusion - they should have a mission that grants you some temporary devices, (a combo-click, a charge, a maintain, and a toggle), and teach you how to use them and how they differ. They should also bring back the block tutorial while they're at it.
I mean, heck, there isn't even anything that teaches you about the different material options for some costume pieces, much less how some can have glow added to them...
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Your points are valid, and I share some of them, but it's a new-player article, and he represented the Adventure Packs exactly like a new player might stumble upon them and react to them.
He doesn't say they're regular mission content. He just says "Oh, hey, there's these, which are pretty cool." It's not misinformation.
It's not an adequate representation of the game's content. Couldn't agree more. But, a representation of the content wasn't the goal of the article.
Hey Smack, with some set up I've managed to get Fireball to hit close to Haymaker...it takes a lot of set up but it can be done....ignoring the DoTs. 1. Fire Snake. 2. Heat Wave (with advantage). 3. Fire Strike (with Kindling advantage)x3 shots then charge Fireball I've hit (with non-optimized gear) crits of around 6k in the Tank Role.
And as far as the article is concerned. Hey the guy had fun while he was here. And his article while it didn't cover any of the negative feedback of the forum flies (he did reference this with a reference to Mild-Mannered's review.)
So, he acknowledged that many a vet is dissatisfied with the current state of things, but forged ahead to give the review from the newcomer's perspective. And the one thing this game does relatively well is give a good first impression (at least if you've subscribed for a month.)
I've reposted the Community Rules and Guidelines post -- can you access it properly? Can you get to it if you're not logged in?
Nope, the link doesnt like me poking my psychic powers around there either...I just get this message from Smackwell's updated and cited link:
Invalid Announcement specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator
EDIT: I exited this forum and went to the announcement section and found it fine, it's just the link that doesnt like Telepaths >_>...the link is superhero-ist...>_> <_< <_> :P
My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
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(In my best Magneto/Cyclops Voice): It's all apart of the conspiracy of silence. Champions Online hates telepaths and always will. And yet you, Mentella, for reasons I may never understand continue to fight for those who hate and fear you.
QFT
My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
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