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Hard-to-Kill Melee DPS/Tank

greyerskiesgreyerskies Posts: 60 Arc User
edited March 2013 in Power Discussion
Hi guys,

I'm about to go Gold and hopefully completely rebuild my level 40 Unleashed AT to a FF. What I want to achieve is a melee character with single target damage at least as good as my Unleashed, only much, much harder to kill.

After a bit of research here I was quickly inspired by the Regeneration-based builds of Silverspar and monsterdaddy, which seem to offer the extreme survivability I want in a way that matches my play style. I've narrowed it down to the build below, but I'd like it sanity-checked by [much] more experienced players than me before I jump into the Powerhouse.

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name:

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Strength (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Devastator
Level 6: Mighty
Level 9: Enduring
Level 12: Tireless
Level 15: Quick Recovery
Level 18: Physical Conditioning
Level 21: Paramilitary Training

Powers:
Level 1: Gunslinger
Level 1: Reaper's Caress (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Way of the Warrior (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 8: Regeneration (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Retaliation (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 14: Aggressor (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Ego Surge (Nimble Mind)
Level 20: Aspect of the Bestial
Level 23: Reaper's Embrace (Rank 2, No Mercy)
Level 26: Sword Cyclone (Rank 2, Rank 3, Accelerated Metabolism)
Level 29: Resurgence (Rank 2, Evanescent Emergence)
Level 32: Masterful Dodge
Level 35: Pounce
Level 38: Uppercut

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Acrobatics (Rank 2)
Level 35: Jet Pack

Specializations:
Strength: Physical Peak (3/3)
Strength: Aggression (2/2)
Strength: Brutality (2/2)
Strength: Juggernaut (3/3)
Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
Warden: Elusive (2/2)
Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Modified Gear (2/2)
Mastery: Strength Mastery (1/1)

And my gear should end up looking something like this:
Primary Offense: Heroic Gloves of Precision
Primary Defense: Heroic Breastplate of Agility
Primary Utility: Legion's Helmet of Utility
(5 Constitution mods; 1 Strength mod; Gambler's and Impact Prisms; should all be r7)

Secondary Offense: Vigilante's Critical Belt
Secondary Defense: Garrison Bracers
Secondary Utility: Salvager's Eyepiece

The idea is: Pounce into melee, then alternate between Reaper's Caress and Embrace for (hopefully?) major single target damage, or cut groups to ribbons with ranked up Cyclone, throwing around the occasional gunshot (for energy) and punch (for interrupting).
This fits my theme nicely, but there's lots of room for adjustment within the concept if I can make this more survivable and/or more damaging in any way.

I've also got a few specific concerns/questions:

1. I'm unsure if Way of the Warrior at r3 is worth a power + 4 APs just for switching to a high damage Hybrid or Melee alternate build - can WotW turn this into a damage monster when healing isn't needed much, or will I be dealing sufficient damage in Hybrid role with Regen?

2. I have no Energy Unlock. Between lots of cooldown/cost reduction gear, Superstat Recovery, and Physical Peak 3/3 - will I have any energy problems?
I've heard that Sword Cyclone is energy-hungry; is Accelerated Metabolism going to help/be worth it here?

3. Is Ego Surge w/ Nimble Mind really worthwhile, since it and Aggressor can't both be in effect at the same time?

4. I like to block, the standard block animation fits my character much better than Energy Shield, and I like the idea of the next-hit damage bonus on Retaliation... but does this build work without Laser Knight or similar?

5. For gear, are the three Armadillo secondaries worth having, for cases when I'd need extreme defense for survivability (eg, Gravitar)?

6. Any possible improvements with my Talent and Specialization picks?

Any other possible tweaks or improvements, however minor, I'd love to learn about as well.

Thanks!
Post edited by greyerskies on

Comments

  • sekimensekimen Posts: 306 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Before I offer any suggestions, do you want a survivable DPS build, or do you want a tank that can hold aggro and deal good damage? Since I don't see any powers or specializations you have that would help you with tanking.
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  • greyerskiesgreyerskies Posts: 60 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Sorry, I should have specified - survivable DPS build. I'm not looking to tank specifically in a team role (although even with my Unleashed AT I've found I hold aggro more often than not in alerts).

    I also don't PvP (outside of fun duels with friends), so that's not a factor in the build.

    Thanks. :smile:
  • mensarmensar Posts: 294 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    DPS/TANK

    The powers you would need to "tank" (I.E. establish aggro, maintain aggro and mitigate damage) negate the possibility of being "DPS" which requires a very different passive, gear, etc.. even if you were able to choose both role icons.

    Sorry, pet peeve!

    Gotta choose one or the other :frown:

    I know that's a sore spot for some people that think you can do both. But those folks haven't seen the DPS of true DPS or the tanking of a true tank.

    Just saying.
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  • greyerskiesgreyerskies Posts: 60 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Yeah, I should have avoided the word "tank" altogether. I tend to think of it in general terms as "character who can take hits," but of course it has a different and more specific meaning. I'll see if I can edit the thread title.
  • flamingbunnymanflamingbunnyman Posts: 2,035 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Mensar: You know that you can create multiple builds, and make a character that is both DPS and Tank, depending on role, right?

    Grey: Way of the Warrior and Regeneration are both slotted passives. You can only use one at a time. Judging from your other posts, it sounds like you might not have realuzed this.
    _________________________________________________
    @flamingbunnyman in game. Formerly @Roderick in City of Heroes.
  • monsterdaddymonsterdaddy Posts: 795 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    On Energy I am pretty certain an Unlock is needed. This is why I usually take Int w an Ameliorating/Barricade Bracer and Hospitable Eyepiece for MSA. Helps with all the cooldowns too.

    Ive tried using an extra offensive passive a few times and I found the extra damage doesnt make too much difference in PvE vs hybrid. If anything, take WotW unranked and substitute Uppercut for Demolish rank 3 for more dps. Works nice w Retaliation to have a charged attack.

    Energy Shield LK is incredibly great damage mitigation. It feels like it always takes off a THIRD of all damage. I might suggest swapping WotW for this and using two builds with diff blocks.

    Running Aggressor (for Enrage stacks) followed by Ego Surge is incredible dps. With Int and cooldown its nearly continuous.

    Skip Armadillo.
  • wesleytansgwesleytansg Posts: 863 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    OP, when you said you are about to go Gold, do you mean monthly sub gold or LTS gold? If you are going to do a monthly sub, I strongly recommend you get a freeform slot instead. Don't waste all the time, effort and resources into build a FF toon only to be unable to play it during periods on non-sub. Trust me, I have friends in this situation. At least a FF slot is permanent.

    You want to switch between 2 passives? Is there really a need to? With good cooldown, if you can get good dodge numbers with BCR and throw in conviction for heals, you may fare better than using Regen. But of course these heals requires energy which Regen does not. Hence MSA is good for these powers since it procs on powers coming off cooldowns.

    The good thing about conviction for heals is that you block while it is cooling and u release block and click it and go back into block again when you are desperate for life. Regen on the other hand has reduced healing when you are blocking. And since Regen ticks every 3 seconds, if you can get conviction to cool in that amount of time, you could get heals almost as good as Regen.
  • monsterdaddymonsterdaddy Posts: 795 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Wes, I haven't seen Regen tick down when blocking under HEAVY assault like when soloing Grav. I think the amount of damage inflicted keeps Regen bumped up even under block.

    I like Regen cuz I hate mashing heal buttons lol. Saving the power slot and adv pts works too.
  • flamingbunnymanflamingbunnyman Posts: 2,035 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    wesleytansg wrote: »
    OP, when you said you are about to go Gold, do you mean monthly sub gold or LTS gold? If you are going to do a monthly sub, I strongly recommend you get a freeform slot instead. Don't waste all the time, effort and resources into build a FF toon only to be unable to play it during periods on non-sub. Trust me, I have friends in this situation. At least a FF slot is permanent.

    If you're going to go this route, remember to farm lots of Questionite and use the Exchange to convert it to Zen, so that you can get the slot at a discounted price, or even free (if you're REALLY patient).
    _________________________________________________
    @flamingbunnyman in game. Formerly @Roderick in City of Heroes.
  • pedipalppedipalp Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Changing your build and powers as little as possible, I would go with something like this:

    PowerHouse (Link to this build)

    Name:

    Archetype: Freeform

    Super Stats:
    Level 6: Strength (Primary)
    Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
    Level 15: Dexterity (Secondary)

    Talents:
    Level 1:
    Level 6:
    Level 9:
    Level 12:
    Level 15:
    Level 18:
    Level 21:

    Powers:
    Level 1: Gunslinger
    Level 1: Reaper's Caress (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 6: Thunderbolt Lunge
    Level 8: Regeneration (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 11: Retaliation
    Level 14: Aggressor (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 17: Ego Surge (Nimble Mind)
    Level 20: Form of the Tempest
    Level 23: Reaper's Embrace (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 26: Sword Cyclone (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 29: Resurgence (Rank 2, Evanescent Emergence)
    Level 32: Masterful Dodge
    Level 35: Dragon's Bite
    Level 38:

    Travel Powers:
    Level 6:
    Level 35:

    Specializations:
    Mastery: Strength Mastery (1/1)

    This is bare-bones, but should give you the gist.

    The idea here is that changing SSS to Con and Dex and adding Form of the Tempest rather than Aspect of the Bestial will give energy via focus stacks (scales with dex). You're going to crit more often, and get a cost discount, AND 10+ energy every time you gain a stack through critting. Use a full-charge Dragon's Bite instead of Uppercut (does 25% more damage anyway), which both refreshes bleeds AND gives Rush buff which will provide both a 15% cost discount to your melee powers AND 15+energy/sec (which ALSO scales with Dex)!

    A good tactic is to Ego Surge (Nimble Mind adv necessary here), lunge, and sword cyclone your way to 8 stacks of Focus. Then Block for a sec or two to replenish energy, and Dragon's Bite for Rush buff. So long as you can DB every 8-10 seconds, using sword cyclone as needed to keep 8 stacks of focus, you shouldn't have too many energy issues.

    I would gear and talent primarily for dex and con, with a little for Str and Rec. Note that you have an empty power slot and lots of advantage points free to play with. I'd likely rank up Dragon's Bite, and then choose either Evasive Maneuvers w/adv, Miniaturization Drive w/rg adv, or BCR w/RR for final power.

    You should have great Defense and Offense through specs (I wouldn't change anything from your build), good auto healing, and a bit of dodge through gear. Take it to the Powerhouse, and see what you think!

    Enjoy!
  • greyerskiesgreyerskies Posts: 60 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Thanks for all the replies!

    flamingbunnyman: I'm aware that only one passive can be slotted; my idea was to slot Regeneration in the Tank role on one build, and WotW in the Hybrid or Melee role on another. But as I'm hearing that WotW wouldn't do a lot for damage anyway, it probably is a waste...

    monsterdaddy: I was pretty set on having REC as a secondary SS rather than INT, but is there an Energy Unlock that still works with that setup? Molecular Self Assembly will add an energy buff whenever those active offenses & defenses come off cooldown?

    I quite like the idea of having two block powers, with the Energy Shield + LK on a more tech-style defensive build, and the single blade will be a tech sword so it does fit. I don't really like most of the other Might powers though (Uppercut was just a flavour thing for fun).

    And yeah, I'd rather have major passive healing than be clicking heals continually, the Regen + huge Defense combo is what really attracted me to Silverspar and monsterdaddy's builds in the first place.

    wesleytansg: I'll be subbing monthly, but I don't intend to play on Silver ever again once I sub. Gold has a bunch of attractive things for me, not least the number of FF slots I'd have. A friend I play with recently grinded Q for a FF slot, so it's do-able, but I couldn't do that twice or thrice without going crazy. :smile:

    I guess I'll play around with this in the Powerhouse.
  • pedipalppedipalp Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Read my build and rationale above.

    Just tested this build in the Powerhouse with a level 40 hybrid. Champs silver primaries, and ordinary purple secondary gear.

    I never blocked or healed once against purple gang team-size 5 on Hard. Might run different against major mofos, but regular bosses were meat and no energy problems. Had to use energy builder twice in 2 runs.

    Good luck!
  • monsterdaddymonsterdaddy Posts: 795 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I don't see a good reason for Rec in original build esp without an unlock. With all the powers you have with a cd Int makes a lot sense esp w MSA. Most regen toons w Rec use Supernatural Power for unlock.
  • wesleytansgwesleytansg Posts: 863 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    greyerskies wrote: »
    wesleytansg: I'll be subbing monthly, but I don't intend to play on Silver ever again once I sub. Gold has a bunch of attractive things for me, not least the number of FF slots I'd have. A friend I play with recently grinded Q for a FF slot, so it's do-able, but I couldn't do that twice or thrice without going crazy. :smile:

    I guess I'll play around with this in the Powerhouse.

    Oh man, then this is what I suggest, for the time being grind the FF slot, than play with the FF slot while saving up these few months of subs and then topping up a bit more to get an LTS.

    How much is monthly sub? If it is $15 a month, you get it all back with 20 months of game time.
  • wesleytansgwesleytansg Posts: 863 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    monsterdaddy wrote: »
    Wes, I haven't seen Regen tick down when blocking under HEAVY assault like when soloing Grav. I think the amount of damage inflicted keeps Regen bumped up even under block.

    I like Regen cuz I hate mashing heal buttons lol. Saving the power slot and adv pts works too.

    Not sure, at least the heals are supposed to decline while blocking at least that's what it says. I have not used regeneration for a long time even before they buffed it. You are right it is the lazy man's heal. It works fine in PvE I guess.
  • monsterdaddymonsterdaddy Posts: 795 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    wesleytansg wrote: »
    Not sure, at least the heals are supposed to decline while blocking at least that's what it says. I have not used regeneration for a long time even before they buffed it. You are right it is the lazy man's heal. It works fine in PvE I guess.

    I find it a convenient playstyle. You basically get a feel for when Regen ticks and fit your fight to it. I've done Revitalize builds and all the clicking makes play seem so frenzied at times LOL. And I find the extra power slot useful in more sophisticated builds.
  • greyerskiesgreyerskies Posts: 60 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    pedipalp, that build looks pretty interesting, thanks. I'm still quite attached to the idea of Aspect of the Bestial, but I'll keep DEX/Focus in mind in case that doesn't work out.

    The reason I have REC is I like to have a full energy bar. I tried STR/CON/INT, and my energy was at something like 40/110. Surely that's not enough to run Sword Cyclone for long (even with INT at 150-200)? I'd certainly try INT if the cooldown/cost reduction is so massive that ~50 equilibrium is enough to throw around all my powers including SC.

    I did get rid of the alternate (offensive) passive, and I've swapped Retaliation for Energy Shield + Laser Knight. I actually really like how LK looks/plays now that I've tried it out.
  • agentnx5agentnx5 Posts: 1,999 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I got a character who can only be killed by top-tier PvP builds that make use of Trauma and dishout lots of DPS while keeping out of melee range (aka. runners). Even a direct hit with Shadow Strike won't kill him.

    On the downside, I can't kill anyone in PvP with him if they're a strong opponent, his damage is weak. It also takes him a long time to complete missions such as the UNITY dailies because of his weaker damage.

    On the upside Gravitar's yellow bubble only takes him down to about 20% to 25% at worst and then he's right back up to full health with one tap of Resurgence. And he can aggro 2 to 3 full groups in the Harbinger Alert and take the punishment without me even having to block!

    He's EXTREMELY hard to kill, even more than my Invuln character (but that could be because I have Gorothok with the best gear around, Legion Gear with R7's & R8's and Legacy devices such as the PRIMUS Spark Shield and the Necrullitic Elixir)


    PowerHouse (Link to this build)

    Name: Gorothok v3.0 (current)

    Archetype: Freeform

    Super Stats:
    Level 6: Constitution (Primary)
    Level 10: Strength (Secondary)
    Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

    Talents:
    Level 1: The Devastator
    Level 6: Relentless
    Level 9: Quick Recovery
    Level 12: Physical Conditioning
    Level 15: Paramilitary Training
    Level 18: Shrug It Off
    Level 21: Healthy Mind

    Powers:
    Level 1: Bestial Fury
    Level 1: Shred (Penetrating Strikes, Crippling Challenge)
    Level 6: Regeneration (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 8: Aspect of the Bestial
    Level 11: Howl (Make them Tremble)
    Level 14: Supernatural Power
    Level 17: Pounce (Nailed to the Ground)
    Level 20: Resurgence (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 23: Masterful Dodge (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 26: Ego Surge (Nimble Mind)
    Level 29: Devour Essence (Phlebotomist, Crippling Challenge)
    Level 32: Unleashed Rage (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 35: Bionic Shielding (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 38: Venomous Breath (Locust Breath, Challenging Strikes)

    Travel Powers:
    Level 6: Flight
    Level 35: Superjump

    Specializations:
    Constitution: Fuel My Fire (3/3)
    Constitution: Tough (3/3)
    Constitution: Resilient (2/2)
    Constitution: Adrenaline Rush (2/2)
    Protector: Fortified Gear (2/3)
    Protector: Unrelenting (1/2)
    Protector: Bulwark (2/2)
    Protector: Defensive Expertise (2/3)
    Protector: Resolute (3/3)
    Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
    Warden: Slaughter (2/3)
    Warden: Elusive (2/2)
    Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
    Mastery: Protector Mastery (1/1)
    Do you have several level 40s?
    Consolidate the currencies! (Please!)
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    Got a funny in-game screenshot? (share it!)
    Please fix the Overdrive energy unlock! (Should help promote thematic build diversity!)
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