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Ask not what Champions Online can do for you...
wethree1
Posts: 149 Arc User
Ok, hear me out before you pull the trigger on the flamethrower.
I desperately want this game to survive and grow and thrive. Currently, and especially in light of the recent QnA session, the chances of that seem very slim.
So, realistically, what do Perfect World and Cryptic need to make it feasible and, more importantly, desirable for them to pursue solid, quality, long-term development of Champions Online.
The easy, and the most salient, answer is money. Ultimately, that trumps everything. After all, it's a business.
Other than spending our own money (which I have, trust me, more than I should have), what can we do as a player base to help make it clearly and obviously profitable for them really re-invest in this game.
Now, at this point you're probably thinking I live in fantasy land, but hear me out on one more thing. I was witness to and part of the Titan Network effort to save CoH. It was and still is an impressive movement.
Now, while it seems that even Titan's impressive effort wasn't enough to save a game that was suddenly and unexpectedly murdered, might not such an organized and focused effort be enough to merely RESUSCITATE a game that is just suffering from neglect?
What am I proposing? I don't know yet. But when I think "what if the intelligent, passionate, and well thought out and organized efforts of Titan to save City of Heroes were adopted and applied by our player base to make it worth it for Perfect World and Cryptic re-focus on Champions", I actually feel a glimmer of hope.
So, I'm asking the question--how can we make this happen?
Let's get the lazy answer out of the way "We can't, because blah blah blah."
Ok, now, how?
I desperately want this game to survive and grow and thrive. Currently, and especially in light of the recent QnA session, the chances of that seem very slim.
So, realistically, what do Perfect World and Cryptic need to make it feasible and, more importantly, desirable for them to pursue solid, quality, long-term development of Champions Online.
The easy, and the most salient, answer is money. Ultimately, that trumps everything. After all, it's a business.
Other than spending our own money (which I have, trust me, more than I should have), what can we do as a player base to help make it clearly and obviously profitable for them really re-invest in this game.
Now, at this point you're probably thinking I live in fantasy land, but hear me out on one more thing. I was witness to and part of the Titan Network effort to save CoH. It was and still is an impressive movement.
Now, while it seems that even Titan's impressive effort wasn't enough to save a game that was suddenly and unexpectedly murdered, might not such an organized and focused effort be enough to merely RESUSCITATE a game that is just suffering from neglect?
What am I proposing? I don't know yet. But when I think "what if the intelligent, passionate, and well thought out and organized efforts of Titan to save City of Heroes were adopted and applied by our player base to make it worth it for Perfect World and Cryptic re-focus on Champions", I actually feel a glimmer of hope.
So, I'm asking the question--how can we make this happen?
Let's get the lazy answer out of the way "We can't, because blah blah blah."
Ok, now, how?
Post edited by wethree1 on
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Storm the PW building and throw our moneys to their executive leaders face and yell 'TAKE OUR MONEY!!'.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
I bet that would work wonders if everyone playing the game could do that.
They are often only as excited as I am.. In September I had a whole gaggle of gays that meet to discuss comics ready to sign in and take CO by storm. I (originally postponed and eventually) cancelled the event. I was willing to pay for all of their freeform tokens in order to bring a community into the game.
I also had gaygamer.net ready to write lots of supporting articles, and more to support the game. Cut it completely when 6months later all we got was soon.
But if Champions Online wants to continue to piss off its players, I can't do anything but laugh while rome burns.
Dear Wethree1,
A few of us HAVE been offering such suggestions, FOR YEARS NOW!
I suggest you first:
1. Read the topics in my signature. Only a few, & they're there for strong reasons
2. Read the suggestions forum.
3. I also made a "Legendary Lockbox" suggestion, "Refer-a-Friend" suggestion, and even a suggestion about using the floating billboards in Millenium City to garner fast food brand-name advertisement money! I had to remove these from my signature because it took up too much space.
4. SG bases, emote & costume packs, more things to buy to improve your hideout, new adventure packs to purchase, selling a gold-cap incremental increase to Silvers, and lowering the stupidly-overly-high prices on Rank Up Catalysts have ALL been suggested to increase revenues for the business.
5. Well-thought-out, clear & concise emails to Cryptic are always getting the silent treatment response. This is even with some heartbreaking stories from people about what Champions means to them.
I'm not sure what else can be done.
They don't listen to the important feedback, don't have a system for sticking to it.
They don't finish what they start, leaving it with bugs/glitches or abandoning it after a few months of using it.
They don't know how to price things appropriately, or understand the cause & effect relationships of drop rates v. demand for the in-game economy.
They don't conduct surveys and polls (particularly ones that use checkboxes instead of radio buttons or use "between 1 and 10" slider bars).
You're right that money is definitely the driving force, but the problem is also tied in with mismanagement.
What I see happening over the years is that the loyal customers are gradually giving up and playing less and the larger percentage of the active in-game daily population now is only interested in roleplaying or questionite farming. It feels as though the spirit of adventure has been lost in the community...
Consolidate the currencies! (Please!)
Does your Champion have a theme song? (share it!)
Got a funny in-game screenshot? (share it!)
Please fix the Overdrive energy unlock! (Should help promote thematic build diversity!)
axe > flamethrower
Yeah... that's a bad idea against my Engineer or Heavy Weapons Guy, and that's what I play the most.
Consolidate the currencies! (Please!)
Does your Champion have a theme song? (share it!)
Got a funny in-game screenshot? (share it!)
Please fix the Overdrive energy unlock! (Should help promote thematic build diversity!)
Flare's guide to hosting and judging costume contests!
(link under construction)
Be very rich.
Step 2:
Buy Champions Online from PWE.
Step 3:
Form new development group, fund them.
Step 4:
Bask in a revived CO, and hope your other investments manage to float the constant red.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
For one, I don't see anybody streaming this game, which is a thought I came up with about....4 minutes ago. Social media helps, people don't play games now adays because "its shiny" cause anything can be made shiny with the game engines out today. They play cause their friends play, or because they can socialize with random people that play the game and not have a headache while doing so.
I mean look at the population of Millinium city zones on a regular basis compared to maps like lemuria vibora bay etc. Now think for a minute, how many people actually "hang out" or do most of their game experience in Vibora bay or lemuria, like...all day long?
Not many, people go there for a mission, then leave. Simple as that. You won't see those zones chats filled with near as much socializing that takes place in Millinium city.
Show people the game, show them the parts that you're interested in and what made you play this game in the first place. Don't go off on a tangent complaining about things they have absolutely no idea about. You can sit up and tell a new player, "vehicles suck"....you gotta realize, he has no idea the full extent of what you're talking about, and barely knows about all the travel powers. Spend more time explaining to new people how their stats work, and how their gear works. <
That right there alone is the biggest learning curve of the game, and something that almost completely turned me off of this game when I started. Show them how to make the hero they want, not "the best hero".
Blog about it, twitter it, meme it, photo it, create it, share videos of it, recommend it on your facebook, join a steam group, reach out to other super groups and socialize with them from the forums to voice chat.
Above all else, show new people ways to play this game for free, then show them the mountain they have to climb to get "such n such cash shop item that makes the game better etc etc". Show them how to get ahead in the game without spending a dime. Eventually they'll look at that mountain of in game work, get lazy, and be like, "F that imma just pay the 10 dollars and skip that bs and get me a hideout and some other stuff."
Communities are what make games thrive, never the game itself. You think people still play ranscoop cause its the best thing ever? Hell no, the community is still there from when the game started, just a few new faces in the roster.
Just noticed my steam time log for this game....755 hours.....WTF.
I love you. You're awesome. Don't ever change.
Also, get this happening on film and put it on the web so it goes viral.
Out of curiosity, one thing that struck me during the save City campaign was that a few quite famous people played City of Heroes. Anyone know if there's anyone who plays Champions these days?
Because the other thing that struck me, was NC Soft reacted when the movement got into the media. A few interviews with famous people, and some streaming events hitting the news will work exactly once.
If it can be leveraged, they have to respond. If it's done correctly, (for example, every article also mentions STO as Cryptic's biggest title or Neverwinter as the new one, any BS answer given publicly doesn't just hurt Champions) their response also reflects on STO and Neverwinter. Making it all the more likely they'll give a real answer and not "soon" for fear of tarnishing games they do care about.
Very true and very good advice. Most importantly, it doesn't rely on Cryptic at all.
Everyone quits in a matter of a month. Usual complaints?
"It's too easy", because any time anything comes into the game with a level of difficulty worth mentioning, the forum nerf herds into the ground. This destroys teaming, which kills the "meeting new players" chunk of an mmo, and group content. Which in turn hurts player retention.
"I just got stuck inside of a wall, and when I teleported out, I fell down and got hurt. Then a gang member killed me. God this game is buggy."
Nothing I can do about that, really.
I'll keep inviting my friends, posting on facebook about it. Taking screenies and posting em, like http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/1184/screenshot2013031018511.jpg that one, which got 4 of my friends interested enough to leave dcuo and come over here. 'course, they all left within a week or 2, because of constantly having to ask questions like "Why am I stuck looking like a sith ripoff? I thought you said this game had deep customization." and "this specialization doesn't seem like it's doing anything. Is it broken?" only to hear bug, bug, design feature they implemented for... I don't know why, really, that you gotta level for a while to get past.
What's sad is I'm very well aware that I'm beating a dead horse with this, and *nobody* stays. I'll keep trying, but we are stuck in a trap right now. They won't put money into bug fixes, because we don't have a lot of players. We don't have a lot of players, because they won't fix bugs.
Personally, I've tapped out my entire social network. Everyone either doesn't game, or has at least given this a solid chance, because of how frequently I mention that I love it. I'd be willing to try to do more, but let's be honest here. It won't matter how many we bring in if we can't *retain* the players. That's gonna take quite a bit more than some gimmicky social networking tricks.
Honestly, what I think it's gonna take is a few more Flares. Caligas. Lee Tosis. Colorful characters who do things for the community or otherwise entertain people. Yet, the flares and caligas also constantly get chat-muted and shut down for no good reason, either by malice or because... design feature... don't know why... etc. Forum support for events like Tanker Tuesday, which I went to and only saw enough people for like 2 parties, tops, in the 2 times I was able to make it.
Let's get some events going, beyond costume contests. I feel that'd be a great start. Run some adventure packs collectively. Have Fallen Angel Fridays, where we get a bunch of teams to go murder some Therakiel face. Advertise em in Zone. The radio station is a great tool, so let's use that too. Get people playing the *content* again, instead of alert grinding, and get an event schedule going. Hell, the CC community has one. I'm even willing to spearhead the operation, if I can get some support and volunteers to help run events. Cosmic hunts, and the like. I have created a channel that can be used as contests-central is, only to pick up groups or get teams rolling to hunt cosmics and the like. Discuss events and the content, find help with missions, need members for gravitar, etc... So /channel_join "Lets Play" and kick me if you have an event you want to run, would like to volunteer to run a cosmic hunt, or have any weekly content runs you'd like to try on a mass scale.
Remember the absolute MOB that popped up when Tyshien held a cosmic hunt last time? We filled the instance. dozens of people thumping on Grond, like a swarm of locusts.
... Yes, while I was posting this I did go from "Discouraged but trying" to "Fuggit, I'll set up an event network! I know what the issue is! We gotta get em doing more random stuff, and mix it up!" in the span of a few minutes.
Ooh, squirrel!
I gotta plan a writeup for a forum post about this, now. I'm serious, if you wanna help. I really think getting people doing a bigger variety will make a big difference in helping to make sure the people who come in, stay in. I know it's what kept me here, running random content with a 4chan super group of all things. Some of em stuck, and the social bonds surpassed the game. I bet each and every one of you has a similar story in this community, it's really what our strong suit is. Let's spread it.
RIP Caine
Watching this game slowly slip away after losing my last game when I feel like I found a new home and have even come to like the hybrid fighting style, and when the content from the PnP game is just so potentially awesome--it's just agonizing.
If there's nothing to be done, so be it. But if there's a possible way to resuscitate this game, I'm in with bells on.
You're so unrelentingly negative, you turn off people who don't even know you - is it any surprise your friends wouldn't keep playing after that barrage?
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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I'm not going to take this personal attack on my character personally because I'm better than you.
Truth? Many players who I had played with quit when I quit. I dont try to be a leader.. Just am. But I dont have any burden of proof to you or anyone else. If the game fais it did so on its own merit. Not because I willed it to be so.
I completely believe and understand this. While I have not tapped out on my contacts (both personal and professional) I simply don't see the merit of bringing any players NOR money into Champions Online if they don't reward the investment.
GentleManCrush knew all about my plan to support Champions Online with my community contacts here in San Francisco and so do many of the players I played with. And as they can all attest to my ability to be your best friend or your worst enemy.
NO I don't have much nice to say about Champions Online. Get over it.
This wasn't the case last September.. hmm wonder what the difference was then from now
"It has a lot going for it. The character customization is top-notch. You don't have to be limited to fixed classes with a fixed selection of powers. You can customize whatever powers you want from any powerset. The combat is fast-paced and very action-oriented."
"That sounds cool! I'll give it a try!"
2 days later.
"Jenny! I was having a casual chat in the zone channel and got a message saying that I've been muted for 24 hours! Why? How? I mean I know the joke I made was pretty lame but I don't think I deserve a 24 hour mute for that..."
"Oh. Well..when you get enough ignores from players, you're muted for 24 hours, meaning you can't chat in any channel or send messages."
"Wait...so you mean to say that players are able to mute other players for 24 hours?"
"Uh...yeah..."
"But no other MMO I've played has that!"
"Uh...well..."
It's one thing to dedicate yourself in giving this game exposure to the masses to get them interested in playing the game. It's another to get them to retain their interest amidst all the stupid problems the game is having right now.
I say stuff and I say things, sometimes together but only when I'm feeling adventurous.
I'm @blu8 in game!
Rewards from lairs that had special properties to them were ripped away, stripping much flavor from the lairs themselves. They were placed behind a pay wall. Items that should only have been usable one per item became equippable 5 times, disturbing game balance. There is more to say, but you already have enough examples from me.
Such troubles did not exist at the time of my purchase of the LTS. The sting of a major disturbance of game balance still lingers, and I am scared to spend any more money.
I also do not want anyone to get mad at me for saying things and causing great expectations, only for them to not be met.
Agreed but a well managed game wouldn't go in the red. There's a ton of money to be made off of superhero media, as recent films such as Avengers proved. It's all about knowing your market, efficiency, creativity, determination, and keeping the fans loyal to your brand.
I wish I could help Champions more... Without open source, or at least a Foundry, I don't see what else I or anyone else in the community could do more to truly help.
I agree.
If a newbie asks for my aid in-game, with something (i.e.: don't know where something is, how much something is worth, or needs help fighting a bad guy they can't defeat) I'm so totally there for ya. Same goes for most level 40 freeform LTS'ers who are just sighing while they run daily Alerts for Questionite -- we're often bored and are happy to kick some bad guy booty for a change that can help out a newbie. Not always available, we might be leaving because of something in real-life soon, but we're typically happy to help. Really. Just ask (nicely)!
My pro-tips for dealing with customer service include being:
(enunciate if speaking; use proper grammar, spelling, and format like a presentation if you're writing)
(don't ramble, stay on topic. This is my biggest failing typically, I prone to rambling or being too wordy)
(don't come at people screaming like a lunatic or whining like toddler, pretend to be all proper & British or something)
(get your point across, make your demands/expectations clear & reasonable, and then DO NOT back down. Be willing to negotiate if necessary, but insist on answers and don't be afraid to get in somebody's way if necessary)
The balance of polite AND assertive at the same time is an art that requires patience, determination, and practice. Not all people are good at it. I am, only because I worked in customer service myself. You are right, you can't back down when getting stonewalled.
If you ask me what SaveCoH should have done was to go after NCSoft's reputation, other titles (i.e. Guild Wars 2), and their advertisers or distributors. Get companies like GameStop to not sell their games. Encourage their employees to leave for a different game company that cares about employees and customers. Basically, put the squeeze on them that threatens to put them out of business if they won't come to the table and negotiate.
Also, remember this: avoid making threats or ultimatums (better to talk to a different customer service representative first then), but if you are forced to that then you need to make sure you can back up your threat or will follow through on your ultimatum. And the one ultimatum that NEVER works is threatening to quit -- they'd rather you go away if you've lost your cool and are making ultimatums. Remember that!
Consolidate the currencies! (Please!)
Does your Champion have a theme song? (share it!)
Got a funny in-game screenshot? (share it!)
Please fix the Overdrive energy unlock! (Should help promote thematic build diversity!)
Perhaps you're misunderstanding what I meant. I was by no means advocating coming off as a raving lunatic. There is a slight line to be distinguished between politeness and civility after all (you can be slightly mean by still being civil, for example). What I'm stating is NCSoft set up that one "official" email address and requested that SaveCoH send all of their emails there so that their day to day business wasn't "interfered" with. And I'm saying that SaveCoH should have kept issuing emails and whatnot to private accounts regardless rather than going "Okey-Dokey, we'll be nice, big corporate guys killing our game."
That official email address to send grievances to was probably never even checked.....
As always, you're my hero.
Lots of this.
We will never save this game and get proper dev support with anger. To each other, over ideas? sure. But "this game is kinda low in population and the players are jerks" isn't really the way to impress em.
Not even saying this to anyone in particular, but it's very true.
RIP Caine
No disrespect to those who were involved in the SaveCoH efforts, it wouldn't have made a flippin' difference if they did. It brought awareness, but it didn't make a difference. When NCsoft closes down a MMO, they close it down. Lessons learned from Auto Assault and Tabula Rasa. The loss in dedicated customers who onced invested in these games are acceptable coallateral. After all, NCsoft just needs the Guild Wars franchise to carry them.
Now, if CoX was the monumental success that the Guild Wars franchise is when it was being brought down for closure or maybe close to it, I'm pretty sure the petition would have a much higher chance of working. Unfortunately it wasn't.
...yeah "saving" is not practical; that's not how games are sold.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Looks like I should take the advice someone gave me on another thread--just play the game and enjoy it as-is for now, that's the best you can hope for. Phew, that's a gloomy future. But I guess I'd better get my head around it and get to accepting it.
I appreciate the discussion (well, except for the personal axe-grinding that went on). Gonna put on my tights and cape while I can and fight evil
Thanks all
And hey, it's POSSIBLE a Neverwinter success story will translate to PWE extending some effort to CO.
Expect nothing, without bitterness, and then be open for pleasant surprises.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Usually the Axtinguisher/Degreaser combo is best.
ON TOPIC: We've been suggesting this for years now, as all of the jaded vet buddies have stated, I personally know at least 3 people who claim to have spent over $1,000 on this game, People spend thousands on keys, lockboxes and questionite every day, and what do we get? Some PR rep that confirms virtually nothing, and a boss with more bugs than live in my back yard? No. We've heard of 5 devs at max for the last 4 months. I seriously doubt we have even that number, honestly.
Money's not going to fix anything.
I'd rather get STO's level of lockbox suck if worthwhile updates come with it. -Buxom
These are all things that good companies do, so no effort to "save things" will help, especially since people usually play only newer games when they're looking for something else to play, and marketing has a huge effect.
If that's the case, then my bringing it up isn't helpful, it's just griping. And, griping is pointless and tiresome. So, I'll stop and just play the game and see what happens.
See you out there fighting evil
...nothing. All I can do is watch as it languishes on life support and wonder when someone's going to pull the plug.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
You're confusing the Jay that was with the Jay that is.
The Jay that was was a staunch supporter of this game.
The Jay that is was brought to this point over a period of months/years by the course of action taken by Cryptic/PWE/Atari etc.
Yeah man, I tried this approach like last week; people are more interested in remaining bitter. If you'll notice, after the first helpful monkeysphere post, it's an immediate "**** it" attitude.
1) FINISH WHAT YOU STARTED!
There are things that were *supposed* to be done/fixed ages ago, and never were. Case and point: Hideout Expansions. They were going to be done, and never were. Now, PWE/Cryptic are now focusing on new things, like vehicles and Questionite-based missions. Whoop-De-Freakin'-Doo. The point is this: A person gets MUCH angrier when they are promised something that is only given Half-Assed than when they are not given something they were not really promised. Really, stop acting like your collective company has ADHD, when the disorder that would help you more would be OCD: at least then you would focus and get SOMETHING done completely! (and on time)
2) STOP PRETENDING VIRTUAL PERKS ARE AS VALUABLE AS DIAMONDS!
Really, a Hover Tank is not worth the 15 Dollars worth of Zen you are selling it for. And I know absolutely NO ONE that will pay 50$ for ONE Freeform slot. That is utterly insane. The problem is that you are looking at this the wrong way: If you make your products CHEAPER, people will be more inclined to spend. However, when your products are expensive, people will be discouraged from paying for anything all together.
So really, what is better? 100 Buyers for a Vehicle at $5 a pop, or 0 Buyers for a Vehicle a $15 a pop? As you can see, NO ONE WILL BUY AN EXPENSIVE ITEM. Also, A LOT OF PEOPLE WILL FLOCK TOWARDS A CHEAP ITEM. This can be said for anything in any type of buisness, but I rest my case.
Please Cryptic/PWE (and especially PWE) get your stuff together. You can do it; and if you don't, there will be a great amount of rage and whining (mostly from me).
Also, to PWE in particular: People are ALWAYS inclined to hating on a new company that involves themselves with their already-familiar product. The point is to prove them wrong by stunnung the consumers with great innovations, not feeding the fire.
__________________________________________________
Most often Slice N Dice@zap-the-eradicator in-game.
I wonder if this is a chicken or egg issue.
Do they prove themselves and then players help to generate revenue for the company or players have to prove to the company that the game is profitable before it will do more for the game.
I also think there are a few issues. One of which is the fact that this is no longer a brand new game. The gaming industry seems to thrive on new waves of games coming up. CO is a good concept but age may be catching up with it. So instead of continuing to grow it, the company would rather channel their efforts into new products with newer engines and graphics etc. Does it necessarily have to be this way? I think the answer is no. There are games which have continued to thrive with new expansion packs etc. However the sales model is different.
Regarding point 1
I am not sure why some stuff are stop mid way as there are no official reasons given. It may be a case of HR re-shuffling or the initial launch failed to bring in the profits the company expected and hence was left off as it is.
Regarding point 2
We do not have access to the actual spending of players and revenue of the company. We also do not have the info about the profile of the player base and hence I will not be so hasty to pass a judgement about their pricing model. What you suggested is basic enough an economic concept which I doubt any sales/marketing department of a company will fail to grasp and I am sure they will want to leverage on the spending patterns of their customers to reap maximum benefits.
Finally, I too hope that more can be done for this game. If the company will give the player a chance with more communication. Let the community show what it can do for the game. Let us know what is and what is not profitable. Let us know the constraints of resources and manpower.
Trailturtle has always been doing his best to establish this but I am sure he has his limitations due to company policies. However, take joy in the last event that they were much more receptive.
Why waste the effort to "complete" something with no use whatsoever?
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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Good point. Was not putting much thoughts into it since I only got myself a penthouse for vanity sake hahaha.