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The Harbinger is a Risk to your computer hardware and eyes/life.
honestresearcher
Posts: 657 Arc User
Early note: No, this topic is not a joke.
I have actually been meaning to write this up for a while now, and had already mentioned it several times on test-server, about the dangers of this mission on your hardware, specifically your Graphics card. Minecraft addiction is to blame for not bringing this up sooner.
I use software to record the temperatures of all my games as i play, and tune my system accordingly so i can run games like Crysis 2 at optimal settings whilst keeping the hardware inside, very cool. (Open Hardware Monitor > it saves your life)
Now i sport a ATI Radeon HD 5750 card, which runs the latest games (mid-spec, low budget).
Using this card i have found that the games which cause it to heat up (in celcius) the most are:
Crysis 2 (70'c)
Left 4 dead 2 (69'c)
Path of Exile(68'c)
Far Cry 3 (70'c)
and this card runs Champions Online, with barely much heat-up at all, at around 60'c.
Now for the problem...the Harbinger is a very large target, where his nipples are about the size of your entire screen, where all your powers visual effects and status changes effects are enlarged to the point that single-particles can fill your whole screen.
I have tested over and over and also collected information from other people who ALL are having their Graphics Card fans REV UP like crazy during the Harbinger fight.
I found that my temperature whilst playing Champions (normally 60'c)
when looking at the Harbinger and fighting him...increased to 74'c even whilst underclocking.
An increase of 14'c on my machine (underclocking to keep it cool) is a great concern for people who are running the game normal, or even overclocking their machine.
This increase in temperature is dangerous to your hardware.
Suggestion: Disable all particle effects (and status ailment VISUAL effects) on Harbinger and/or reduce his size significantly.
----
Part 2 of our problem, is again, the particle effects. Effects like Negative Ions which apply a flashing electricity effect on large targets like Kigatilik (who is tiny compared to harbinger) can cause anyone a headache. When the Harbinger is submitted to status changes like Negative Ions or Clinging Flames etc, the flashing effects become so much, so flashy that it begins to hurt my eyes terribly and cause my friends playing with me to complain of eye strain.
I have no choice in the Harbinger fight but to look completely away from the harbinger for the whole fight.
I also warned the devs on test server several times, but to no avail: The risk of a visual siezure is dangerously high. Even people with good eyes, are feeling the strain.
---
These issues are not something that should be fixed whenever you feel like it or in a another couple of years...these are life risking, and computer melting problems which i hope everyone here, will understand just how urgently important it is, to get this changed immediately.
Thank you for reading.
I have actually been meaning to write this up for a while now, and had already mentioned it several times on test-server, about the dangers of this mission on your hardware, specifically your Graphics card. Minecraft addiction is to blame for not bringing this up sooner.
I use software to record the temperatures of all my games as i play, and tune my system accordingly so i can run games like Crysis 2 at optimal settings whilst keeping the hardware inside, very cool. (Open Hardware Monitor > it saves your life)
Now i sport a ATI Radeon HD 5750 card, which runs the latest games (mid-spec, low budget).
Using this card i have found that the games which cause it to heat up (in celcius) the most are:
Crysis 2 (70'c)
Left 4 dead 2 (69'c)
Path of Exile(68'c)
Far Cry 3 (70'c)
and this card runs Champions Online, with barely much heat-up at all, at around 60'c.
Now for the problem...the Harbinger is a very large target, where his nipples are about the size of your entire screen, where all your powers visual effects and status changes effects are enlarged to the point that single-particles can fill your whole screen.
I have tested over and over and also collected information from other people who ALL are having their Graphics Card fans REV UP like crazy during the Harbinger fight.
I found that my temperature whilst playing Champions (normally 60'c)
when looking at the Harbinger and fighting him...increased to 74'c even whilst underclocking.
An increase of 14'c on my machine (underclocking to keep it cool) is a great concern for people who are running the game normal, or even overclocking their machine.
This increase in temperature is dangerous to your hardware.
Suggestion: Disable all particle effects (and status ailment VISUAL effects) on Harbinger and/or reduce his size significantly.
----
Part 2 of our problem, is again, the particle effects. Effects like Negative Ions which apply a flashing electricity effect on large targets like Kigatilik (who is tiny compared to harbinger) can cause anyone a headache. When the Harbinger is submitted to status changes like Negative Ions or Clinging Flames etc, the flashing effects become so much, so flashy that it begins to hurt my eyes terribly and cause my friends playing with me to complain of eye strain.
I have no choice in the Harbinger fight but to look completely away from the harbinger for the whole fight.
I also warned the devs on test server several times, but to no avail: The risk of a visual siezure is dangerously high. Even people with good eyes, are feeling the strain.
---
These issues are not something that should be fixed whenever you feel like it or in a another couple of years...these are life risking, and computer melting problems which i hope everyone here, will understand just how urgently important it is, to get this changed immediately.
Thank you for reading.
Post edited by honestresearcher on
0
Comments
Yes, the particles in that fight do put a load on the GPU but on my rig it's the same load as if I fight Mega-D in melee range with someone putting clinging flames or negative ions on him. However, calling it dangerous is just not accurate. 74 degrees is way in the safe range for a 5750. The load temp of a 5750 according to anandtech is 84 and those cards are safe at 90C though that's pushing close to the limit. This is both according to AMD and according to my own benching of those (and several other cards in AMD's 5xxx series) including hammering them with Furmark among other tools to overheat them and test the cooling and stability.
My Amazon author page
How to build a freeform character...the Kenpo way
Demon Keypo's Building Guide
Freeform Builds Directory (Last updated: 04/23/2016)
Serving since September, 2009 / 65 Characters, 63 Level 40's
Taking data from temperature recordings and hearing my friends complain their fans are revving up to max, AND that the fight runs hotter than Crysis 2 at max graphics...is a bit insane.
Not everyone has the hardware knowledge or tampering knowhow, so i had to bring this up.
I figured that out from reading this thread bud. :biggrin: 74 degrees...panic!!! ****, I wish I could get temps that low on my cards but that just ain't happening with 3 cards sitting on top of each other.
Now the noise during harbinger (or Mega-D) is annoying as hell. Fans crank way the hell up and yup, just like you said, more than anything in Crysis 2 (or 1 or any of the parts I've gotten to in 3).
My Amazon author page
How to build a freeform character...the Kenpo way
Demon Keypo's Building Guide
Freeform Builds Directory (Last updated: 04/23/2016)
Serving since September, 2009 / 65 Characters, 63 Level 40's
Turn down the graphics level on your game. At medium or low graphics you won't be straining your card.
Easy fix.
As far as the seizure thing goes...I'm really torn on this. On the one hand, I have a friend who has seizures, and his doctor's recommendation was not to play video games at all. If he's representative of that population as a whole, then no one who is seizure prone should be playing games that have this sort of graphics.
The flip side of course is that most people aren't like my friend, and are going to still want to play this sort of game. In a 'perfect world' I'd like to see game developers cater to this by giving us the option to turn of seizure causing graphics.
I honestly don't see the latter happening, particularly with how horribly short staffed Champions is at current.
Personal tastes vary, and it also depends on how many effects a group of heroes is throwing around.
It would be nice, however, to make some of the status effects more subtle, not just for Harbinger, but in general.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Yup I agree fully with you here. My big rig can run both Crysis and Crysis 2 AT THE SAME TIME without going over 25'c ( my custom rig has 6 fans and some serious water cooling XD ) and Harby pushes it up over 50'c and for the first time in the life of my gaming rig it suffered slowdown. I wont even attempt Harby on my laptop so somethings seriously wrong with that alert.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
I feel so... inadequate.
*heavy sigh*
CellarRat33 :: formerly Bsquared
***
"The great thing about glory unending is that it's dirt cheap!" - Tateklys
From the Adventures of Thundrax (canadascott)
***
This, by the way, is with my graphics set so low I can barely SEE the Harbinger. I see a brown pixelated blob flailing around against the grey background. So it's not just "Oh, set your graphics to min, you'll be fine!" They can't go any lower, and that doesn't help at all.
... Nepht, why are you gaming on Skynet?
I'm not sure about Radeons but I would say that anything near 90 would be something to really worry about.
The temperature difference was what i am recording, so that everyone can see my difference. Nepht seems to have an even bigger temperature increase than mine, by over 25' difference.
If i dont keep an eye on and control my (cheap) hardware, Harbinger will melt it.
Correct. Both AMD and Nvidia's GPU's (4xx, 5xx, 6xx for Green team and 5xxx, 6xxx, 7xxx for Red team) are rated to operate a little over 90C.
My Amazon author page
How to build a freeform character...the Kenpo way
Demon Keypo's Building Guide
Freeform Builds Directory (Last updated: 04/23/2016)
Serving since September, 2009 / 65 Characters, 63 Level 40's
I just played the Harbinger mission (first time back in the game since December) at 1900x1600 with particle effects on and somehow managed to avoid being blinded or keel over dead. I guess I should consider myself fortunate!
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
No Snakey has a real valid point to make in this thread something is seriously wrong. Harby just killed Gingers Old HP laptops graphics card.
Not joking laptop is toast. Its an ex laptop. Its dead :I
( To be honest he wanted to see what Harby would do to an old 6 year old lappy he had in my cupboard gathering dust. )
But goes to show theres something busted in the background of the code thats making things overheat.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Next Mega-Event...
The Return of... MECHANON!
CellarRat33 :: formerly Bsquared
***
"The great thing about glory unending is that it's dirt cheap!" - Tateklys
From the Adventures of Thundrax (canadascott)
***
So there really is a graphics issue the GPU? Hmm. That would explain why my laptop's fan goes brrraaaWWWWWAAAAWWWWWRRRRRR! when the Harbinger shows up.
I got news for you, that ain't a "fix", it's a workaround. A sacrifice you have to make to get by.
It would seem we need a solution, not a half-assed "easy" workaround.
What you're suggestion is the same sort of workaround as "staring at the ground zoomed way in" in the Takofanes fight, it's silly.
If you want another easy workaroun: fight the battle underwater, his mandatory-block-or-die-AoE-attack doesn't seem to hit you down there either which is nice.
They did it for Pulse Beam Rifle when worried of legal liability from epileptic seizures surfaced. So actually I do see it happening, there's precedent for it.
More to the point though, why not scale the size or dim the brightness of the flashy sprite effects down? The goal should be having fun gameplay design, and giving your customers migraine headaches isn't part of that design objective.
Consolidate the currencies! (Please!)
Does your Champion have a theme song? (share it!)
Got a funny in-game screenshot? (share it!)
Please fix the Overdrive energy unlock! (Should help promote thematic build diversity!)
Yeah its started to smoke and I got sorta baked. Afterwards I went outside and threw up for like half and hour. Seriously I aint joking guys.http://images-cdn.perfectworld.com/profile/2f/ad/2fad105ed8db2085edca4447cf7b38f21363119791.jpg
In the aftermath of the Harbinger laptop attack I was seriously wrecked. I am also blaming Harbinger for me being fat and ugly and not on me eating to many grilled cheese.
Git Gud M8!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Cause I'm worth it. Playing since 2009.
>_> You cant blame Cryptic on a faulty laptop that you turned on yourself thats pushing it a bit much.
And yesh yew are very fat and very ugly sorry kiddo I got the HAWT genes and I am blame the Harby alert on said HAWTNESS. http://images-cdn.perfectworld.com/profile/9f/dd/9fddb7b81aee89447b84c49649af08531315607602.jpg. Its a bit like the plot MGS Twin Snakes only with 100% more f@%ktard ( except ima tens years older than Ginge and I aint a camp British person :P . )
( If peeps are somewhat confused me and Ginger are Bro and Sis )
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Now, STO makes my computer heat up something awful...
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Is it barfs?
I can see cat avatars, at least.
I'm glad to hear about Pulse Rifle, too. I was avoiding it, even though I wanted to use it.
Dont play STO with your laptop on your lap you will burn your wang off. That is one game that does heat up laptops :I
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Community Rules and Policies -Smackwell
The links seem to work fine mines just my core connect pic
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
I got to see them in IE. I forgot that PWE's internets hate Chrome.
...also, he looks like my uncle. x3
Give your uncle my condolences
Unless Ginger is you actual uncle , then thats just a massive mindf@%k.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
90c might not be much for you, but for those using laptops or older gpu that much heat can pose a serious risk to the hardware, and he isn't the only one complaining about it.
I think thats a little harsh a good few of us are having the same problem as Snake.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Note: Underclocking a GPU doesn't ALWAYS result in a lower GPU temperature. ESPECIALLY at full GPU load. Full GPU load will usually kick the temps up regardless of low you clock.
Also, are you fans kicking in? If not, head into the Catalyst Control Center and check fan speeds and what thermal marks are for fan ramp-ups.
Also, is your card an actual ATI-branded card? Or from one of their partners (MSI, Sapphire, XFX, etc). It ATI-branded cards are known to run hotter.
Also, according to ATI, 90 degrees is STILL a safe operating temp for a GPU at max load. But, if you're that concerned, you may need to look at ancillary cooling beyond just the HSF on the card itself.
"Champions-Online and Star Trek Online contained hundreds of hours of mediocre content!"
and "nothing was polished".
--Jack Emmert
Not only will it extend the life of the hardware, but my electricity bill wont be as min-maxed
I can use these workarounds but i dont need them to be able to play, the reason i had to make this topic though, is because i felt other people must be informed, to keep this incredible problem in mind.
My fans are fine, but i ALWAYS keep my eye on temperatures to make sure i never go over 70'c.
When i noticed CO was going over 74'c (instead of 60)...i knew something wasnt right. Other people, HAVE had their fans go beserk, and other people im hearing now, have had their computer ruined by this mission.
Spread the message to Cryptic, this isnt a light issue.
Im surprised nobody beat me to post this critical issue.
Heh. The way Smackwell edited your post, it looked like you were giving him hell for editing posts and linking the rules.
Maybe he should have changed the quote to "Quote removed" or something like that, and added his line to the bottom of your post.
@flamingbunnyman in game. Formerly @Roderick in City of Heroes.
Also for the record my own GPU is sitting at 58c ad i'm just chatting with the crafter lady
Also if you are experiencing high levels of heat a far more likely culprit is dust clogging vents
As long as your rig has decent cooling and that the temperature does not exceed 80 degrees, you have very little to worry about.
Also keep in mind that different games run different graphic rendering engines. Not every game will have the GPU running at the exact same temperature ranges. GPUs are designed to take this fact into account. L4D2 for example runs on the already-dated source engine and doesn't have certain newer rendering features that CO has. That's why temperatures are significantly lower when L4D2 is running.
I'm assuming that even at normal clocking, your GPU runs at 74 degrees when fighting Harbinger. Considering that you run Crysis 2 and Far Cry 3 at 70, the difference of 4 degrees doesn't look like an increase to panic over.
That being said, anything from 90 upwards is worrying. The quality of casing and cooling system that the casing has, including the number of fans also all factor in to determine the temperature. Also, if you have a small casing that allows for little airflow, have crap-standard fans with low RPMs and don't regularly clean away the dust inside of your casing, then that will contribute to high heat.
If it's a laptop involved, the vent(s) can be cleaned of dust using canned air, or anything equivalent that is able to blow pressured air. A good quality external cooler also helps.
YMMV, I guess.
RIP Caine
Not entirely true. The PC will shut down when it gets critically hot, true. But any amount of heat will do damage over time to your computer. That's why computer parts fail, even if they have no moving parts. And the hotter things get, the quicker they wear out.
While the temperatures that Snake's reporting aren't anything to panic about, the fact that his temperature is jumping as much as it does is something worth noting. Even if his topic title is a little overdramatic.
@flamingbunnyman in game. Formerly @Roderick in City of Heroes.
(Um, Happy Noodle Boy isn't entirely - ah - sane...)
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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Nor is his creator, 'Nny.
Am not actually sure how hot my computer gets during the Harbinger fight, but it slows my computer down quite alot. I agree that they should remove the silly effects from the big boss fights (negative ions, etc)
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
@Pallih in game
There are two programs that come to mind concerning GPU temperature monitoring: Hwmonitor and EVGA precision. I like the latter since it allows for an ingame overlay showing GPU temperatures.
For Windows 7 users owning a Nividia card, there's also the widget that comes with newer drivers.
Monitoring temperatures is a habit everyone should adopt.
I usually keep an eye out for the video card's temperature, cuz that's the one I'm having problems with. While not in game it's usually something like 40-50 celsius. In game between 50-60 celsius.
And for totally unrelated note for you, I loooove Jenny. :biggrin:
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
@Pallih in game