Any redeeming qualities in Targeting Computer?

superalfgorn · February 2013

Hi all.

I'm building a Particle Rifle/Pulse Beam Rifle hero. The key thing to note is that I want to use the same rifle (this one: http://www.champions-online-wiki.com/wiki/File:Pulp_Sci-fi_Ray_Gun_2.png) for all attacks that need a gun.

I need a passive and since the PBRifle is my main attack I chose Electric Form. Its damage boost is good and its equilibrium boost is really good, freeing me from the need to choose a SSS that helps with energy management.

HOWEVER, thematically, I would really like Targeting Computer. BUT it has a lower damage boost, no energy boost, and the lock on feature only helps against bosses.
The only advantage I see is that it opens up the possibility to use something from munitions and power armor while keeping a good damage output, but I could easily choose some particle damage from the PA framework.

As the tile says, does it have any redeeming qualities that I do not see? Perhaps given the diminishing returns, there is no real difference in damage from the two passives at the end of the day?

braxzana · February 2013

I admit I've only ever dabbled with Targeting Computer. The "lock on" feature, as you note, is only really any good against bosses that can survive long enough for it to be of use. MOST of the time all you get is the flat damage increase which is outperformed by just about any other offensive passive.

In short, as far as I know, aside from concept and MAYBE boss fights, Targeting Computer has no 'edge' over other passives. I suppose you COULD have that AND Electric Form and just swap builds to use the Targeting Computer in those cases where it might be useful...

kelbornx · February 2013

It gives you 5% more Crit Chance and 10% more Crit Severity after it Locks On. That is a very good bonus for bosses. Sure it's not that useful on trash mobs who die in 3 seconds, but they're not much of a challenge anyway.

That (base value) 5% difference between Elec Form R3 and TC R3 is negligible because of diminishing returns on additive damage bonuses. The extra crit chance and severity more than make up for a small flat damage increase. Take a look here for the DR formula. You can use that to see what the exact difference would be with your given stats.

My "Gadgeteering DPS" build in my sig is basically the build you're trying to make (maybe different thematically, but same core). I took Electric Form there because I was also taking Chest Beam, primarily for the debuff. The bonus equilibrium lets me get off 2-3 taps, or a full charge.

monsterdaddy · February 2013

I made a tanking ranged role toon with TC. Using CON pss so having more crits equals more healing n i used particle rifle. TC also adds a decent dam resist.

superalfgorn · February 2013

Nice insight!

I could run something along these lines. I take the Avenger tree eschewing the Guardian and TheBestDefense since both Particle Rifle and SMG are maintains.

Since DEX is a SSS and I have a point in SixtSense the crit rate is probably OK then Finite Probability Engine can cause some cool debuffs for boss fights, which is the reason I'm taking Targeting Computer.

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name: Technetium Merc

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Ego (Primary)
Level 10: Dexterity (Secondary)
Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Soldier
Level 6: Shooter
Level 9: Martial Training
Level 12: Command Training
Level 15: Field Ops Training
Level 18: Coordinated
Level 21: Academics

Powers:
Level 1: Particle Rifle
Level 1: Pulse Beam Rifle (Rank 2, Finite Improbability Engine)
Level 6: Concentration
Level 8: Targeting Computer (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Bionic Shielding (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 14: Submachinegun Burst (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Overdrive
Level 20: Ego Surge (Nimble Mind)
Level 23: Palliate (Rank 2, Absolve)
Level 26: Chest Beam (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 29: Energy Shield (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Masterful Dodge
Level 35: Lock N Load
Level 38: Implosion Engine (Rank 2, Rank 3)

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Jet Pack (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Teleportation

Specializations:
Ego: Mental Endurance (2/3)
Ego: Force of Will (1/2)
Ego: Insight (2/3)
Ego: Follow Through (3/3)
Ego: Exploit Opening (1/2)
Ego: Sixth Sense (1/3)
Avenger: Ruthless (2/2)
Avenger: Anguish (2/2)
Avenger: Round 'em Up (1/3)
Avenger: Relentless Assault (3/3)
Avenger: Offensive Expertise (2/2)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Initiative (2/2)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (1/3)
Vindicator: Offensive Expertise (1/2)
Vindicator: Mass Destruction (1/3)
Mastery: Ego Mastery (1/1)

kelbornx · February 2013

Mental Endurance sucks, put those points into Insight 3/3 and Force of Will 2/2.

Avenger tree is... meh. The Best Defense gives you more Offense than Relentless Assault at level 40, especially with Force of Will. Anguish is the only other good thing in the tree, but Find the Mark 2/3 in Guardian is equally good. Plus Fortified Gear gives you more Defense. Offensive Expertise isn't terribly effective. It might shave off a few seconds, but unless you have a lot of Cost Discount from gear, you're not going to see much from it.

You really don't need R3 on Energy Shield, but then again you really don't have anything else to put those points into.

Evasive Maneuvers (Sleight of Mind) is way better than Palliate (Absolve). Much, much lower cooldown.

Here is how I would tweak it. You have nothing that scales with DEX. Concentration scales with EGO, and Overdrive scales with REC. Taking CON as a Secondary SS is much better than taking DEX, which you can just talent for (you can get +40 DEX just from talents). If you ever do Gravitar, or an endgame Lair on Elite, you'll be thankful for the extra HP from CON. It also scales Nimble Mind on Ego Surge.

superalfgorn · February 2013

Ty for the reply!

Mmh Mental Endurance indeed sucks. Yesterday I looked at the numbers and whew, it should be 100/200/300% at least to make it wothwhile.

I choose the Avenger just because I am tired of the loop BestDef/AggStance. Still you are probably right, it is the most effective choice.

As for CON, over DEX it definitely makes sense in light of endgame content, plus even in random alerts I noticed that the occasional stray bullet or AoE knoks me down from the sky and of course my dps plummets down as well.

Ok I'll follow your suggestion and as I level up will see if I need to tweak anything.

selphea · February 2013

Alternatively, you can try primary Dex, secondary Con/Rec and Form of the Tempest instead of Concentration. Should net you more DPS than Ego/Con/Rec.

kelbornx · February 2013

Hmm. That's hard to say without parsing it. While you will get some higher crit chance and severity from Primary DEX, FotT gives much less of a bonus to Ranged damage. Even with the DR on damage bonuses, that may be enough to throw it in EGO / Concentration's favor. Lower base damage means lower crit damage. *shrugs* Probably a tossup really, when you factor in Expose Weakness.

crypticbuxom · February 2013

I feel that Quarry is better than Targeting Computer since Quarry buffs all damage types, gives you dodge and avoidance, and of course it gives you that incredible stat buff to INT and EGO. But that's all preference in your stats. I just find INT to be infinitely more useful than REC especially with an Energy Unlock.

monsterdaddy · February 2013

crypticbuxom wrote: »

I feel that Quarry is better than Targeting Computer since Quarry buffs all damage types, gives you dodge and avoidance, and of course it gives you that incredible stat buff to INT and EGO. But that's all preference in your stats. I just find INT to be infinitely more useful than REC especially with an Energy Unlock.

Quarry only buffs crushing damage and Rec helps all energy unlocks from a minor to major extent. Int affects only MSA and Overdrive. Int is very useful in any case for cost and cooldown.

kenpojujitsu3 · February 2013

monsterdaddy wrote: »

Quarry only buffs crushing damage and Rec helps all energy unlocks from a minor to major extent. Int affects only MSA and Overdrive. Int is very useful in any case for cost and cooldown.

Quarry buffs every damage type in the game.

selphea · February 2013

kelbornx wrote: »

Hmm. That's hard to say without parsing it.

Actually I've been doing something to that extent. Preliminarily, Dex does more DPS by a healthy margin. Although I've been testing with Stormbringer rather than Targeting Computer, which really sends damage bonuses into DR.

kelbornx · February 2013

My build that's similar to this one is running DEX, CON / INT with Concentration... just hit 40 and haven't bothered getting Heroic gear yet, so only 280 DEX and 170 INT. 350 DEX would push FotT to the same value that INT is now giving me with Concentration. A easily attainable number.

I thought I was using REC (old build, leveled it to 40 quick to get another character slot), but then realized *derp* Electric Form. I may end up switching my build to TC just for the extra crit and severity, which I think would work exceptionally well with Pulse Beam Rifle, and Primary DEX. No more triple Chest Beam tap from equilibrium though. :P

The scaling on Overdrive seems really weird after I took a look at it. I'm getting more than Mecha Teddy's numbers in the sticky thread say I should with INT. Looks like they ninja-buffed the scaling. Current values of 170 INT, 37 REC, 22 END are giving me 8 energy per 3 seconds. Base return of 5, which means I'm getting +3 from scaling. Assuming it just pulls from one stat and doesn't combine scaling from all stats that affect it, it seems that I'm getting a 0.0176 scaling instead of 0.0088 on INT.

monsterdaddy · February 2013

kenpojujitsu3 wrote: »

Quarry buffs every damage type in the game.

Apparently I do require more sleep. I even meant to say physical and wound up typing crushing lol.

kenpojujitsu3 · February 2013

monsterdaddy wrote: »

Apparently I do require more sleep. I even meant to say physical and wound up typing crushing lol.

Quarry also buffs non-physical damage as well. Get your ZZZZZs!!!! :biggrin:

falchoin · February 2013

Last I checked energy returns use both stats for scaling. So with regards to Overdrive...

37 REC = 0.041 x 37 = 1.517
170 INT = 0.0088 x 170 = 1.496

1.517 + 1.496 + 5 = 8.013

Seems to check out.

smoochan · February 2013

kenpojujitsu3 wrote: »

Quarry also buffs non-physical damage as well. Get your ZZZZZs!!!! :biggrin:

ya but only by half the amount it buffs physical. gotta make sure to mention that, or we'll all be failing alerts with muffed up pyro-quarry builds!

selphea · February 2013

http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=2217081&postcount=15

Quarry vs Electric Form vs Targeting Computer comparison with Pulse Beam Rifle

superalfgorn · February 2013

Nice data. Thereby from a casual point of view Targeting Computer does not really fall behind that much.

Since I have already a Quarry user and I do not like the look of Electric Form on this hero, I'll keep targeting computer.

banfff · March 2013

Understand, the skill was made for powers you aren't currently considering. This is why you think it feels lack luster. What skills give the computer time to lock on before they do damage?

Open your mind.

superalfgorn · March 2013

Well it's interesting that you can indeed lock-on before engaging. That maximizes the utility.

Care to be less Cryptic about it? (without checking the wiki I can imagine charging Sniper Rifles could do it?)

It's not just a matter of opening my mind, by the way,

, I wanted info for a thematic build not a total optimization of Targeting Computer.

oniganon · March 2013

Maybe Shoulder Launcher, Orbital Cannon...

theravenforce · March 2013

So glad this thread was made, it's provided me with quite a bit of insight into a passive I used briefly on a Soldier AT.

I have a build which I'd like assistance on, I'm trying to go for Hybrid Role with the ability to go ranged if need be.

I've taken END primary for Kickback and the boost to HP it grants, I'm hoping to be quite/relatively sturdy. Here it is:

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name: NRGMuffin.exe V3

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Endurance (Primary)
Level 10: Dexterity (Secondary)
Level 15: Intelligence (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Glacier
Level 6: Agile
Level 9: Brilliant
Level 12: Energetic
Level 15: Investigator
Level 18: Coordinated
Level 21: Accurate

Powers:
Level 1: Wrist Bolter (Automated Assault)
Level 1: Power Gauntlet (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Targeting Computer (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 8: Micro Munitions (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Concentration
Level 14: Overdrive
Level 17: Reconstruction Circuits (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Mini Gun (U-238 Rounds)
Level 23: Masterful Dodge
Level 26: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Resurgent Reiki)
Level 29: Plasma Beam (Rank 2, Melta Cannon)
Level 32: Lock N Load
Level 35: Chest Beam (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 38: Energy Shield (Phalanx Defense System)

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Jet Boots (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Rocket Jump (Rank 2, Rank 3)

Specializations:
Endurance: Readiness (3/3)
Endurance: Gear Utilization (2/3)
Endurance: Kickback (2/2)
Endurance: Power Overwhelming (1/3)
Endurance: Hardened (2/2)
Guardian: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Guardian: Locus (1/2)
Guardian: Make It Count (1/3)
Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
Guardian: The Best Defense (3/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (2/3)
Vindicator: Mass Destruction (3/3)
Mastery: Endurance Mastery (1/1)

All feedback would be greatly appreciated. (I'm used to Invuln with this build, but I wanted to go more offensive, however I am worried about damage I'll be taking..)

EDIT: I tried this build out with INT/CON/END...wow..if I just adjust my gear slightly I get really good results..I'm loving this build with those stats...TC really does boost the damage output...now to test the durability...

selphea · March 2013

Try this:

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name:

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Endurance (Primary)
Level 10: Dexterity (Secondary)
Level 15: Constitution (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Glacier
Level 6: Boundless Reserves
Level 9: Acrobat
Level 12: Accurate
Level 15: Impresario
Level 18: Quick Recovery
Level 21: Amazing Stamina

Powers:
Level 1: Wrist Bolter (Automated Assault)
Level 1: Targeting Computer (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Power Gauntlet (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 8: Micro Munitions (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Mini Gun (U-238 Rounds)
Level 14: Form of the Tempest
Level 17: Ionic Reverberation
Level 20: Ball Lightning (Triplicity)
Level 23: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 26: Orbital Cannon (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 29: Energy Shield (Phalanx Defense System)
Level 32: Ego Surge (Nimble Mind)
Level 35: Masterful Dodge
Level 38: Support Drones (Rank 2, Rank 3)

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Jet Boots (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Rocket Jump

Specializations:
Endurance: Readiness (3/3)
Endurance: Kickback (2/2)
Endurance: Outburst (3/3)
Endurance: Hardened (2/2)
Guardian: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Guardian: Locus (2/2)
Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
Guardian: The Best Defense (3/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (2/3)
Vindicator: Mass Destruction (3/3)
Mastery: Endurance Mastery (1/1)

I fit Superstat Con in to really beef up its survivability, and gave it an Unlock that should make Outburst possible, so that you can get that +15% to healing.

Wear Armadillo Secondaries, which will give you a lot more mileage per HP.

Support Drones is mostly thematic. Replace with BCR or Bionic Shielding if you feel like, or even Invul as an alternate passive :O

theravenforce · March 2013

@Selphea

I went with your specs, my build and INT/CON/END. With INT as primary, I was amazed to find it worked out well. Just energy itself is a bit of an issue, I have to build up lots before dishing out quite a good amount of damage. But on the plus side in combat I get 64% damage resistance + 18% from my passive = 82% damage resistance from defense values alone (plus TC's value), combined with dodge/avoidance gear it makes me pretty durable, I just need to slot a cost reduction core in then I'll be pretty much all set. I was suprised how much I was able to crit with my character page saying my chance was 0.7%

It's turned into the build I wanted more or less ^^

oniganon · March 2013

If you're using Overdrive, you should perhaps have SSS Rec instead of End. Overdrive scales with primarily Rec.

And if you're abusing Revitalize, remember there's many tricky things you can do with cooldown abilities, like cycling Lock N Load and Immolation.

Any redeeming qualities in Targeting Computer?

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