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Another: CO is going down the tubes post
mensar
Posts: 294 Arc User
It's odd, the other day I mentioned that Champions seems like a foreign-run company anymore. Someone mentioned they were Chinese.
I wasn't surprised.
Unfortunately, all the Chinese owned games I've played never focused on content or quality, beyond the initial launch. After that it was about getting all the money they could before they chased off all the paying customers. After that.. botville.
I've been with the game for 3 years now and I can say .. it has truly reached rock-bottom. All new content is based on real money. No bug fixes since I can remember have happened beyond fixing the hot-tub in the hideouts..... really? Was that a joke?
The ONLY person we EVER see in the game is Iris and he's up to his eyeballs in complaints whenever I see him. It's a wonder he comes in at all.
The game needs much more focus on debugging (or how about just debugging.. we'll settle for just ANY debugging), an increased presence in the game, more of a customer-centric focus (this means every year commenting on at least ONE post by the devs, not just the CM.... at least yearly will be a step-up.. have no English-speaking devs? That's a big chunk of your problem), definitely less real-money crap. Granted, we don't want the game to fail. But seriously, easy on the avarice. You're more likely to attract new costumers with new content than you are with a money-sink.
If you can't balance those requirements, this game will fail.
Plain and simple.
The bar is very high for MMOs anymore because there are so many choices. The time when you could just throw stuff out there and have people buy it is long-past for this game besides for the hard core players.
Speaking of the hard-core players.. you really gave us the shaft with the nerf to the prototype jets. No warning, no offer for compensation. Just took them away (and we paid for those, mind you) and got some half-cocked crap in return. How about a little THOUGHT before you pull a stunt like that and make a rift between yourself and your PAYING customers that had the TRUST in you to buy from you? You still need to fix that, by the way. Prototypes should have at least 8 speed. Before mods. PERIOD.
How about the memory leak that's been plaguing the game since inception? Granted, maybe I'm expecting too much when I switch to the 50th map and the game crashes (typically when doing alerts) on any of my systems. But, that shouldn't happen period.
And the bug of lifting items over your head? Been broken a LONG time.
(and that's the very very short list.. I'm sure people responding to this post can give more examples)
I see post after post falling on deaf ears. NO changes made, no explanations given. How long do you think it will take for people to give up on a game that has all these issues? I'm embarassed to tell anyone about it lately.
This isn't how American games are run. Ban me again for saying it, but that's the truth.
I wasn't surprised.
Unfortunately, all the Chinese owned games I've played never focused on content or quality, beyond the initial launch. After that it was about getting all the money they could before they chased off all the paying customers. After that.. botville.
I've been with the game for 3 years now and I can say .. it has truly reached rock-bottom. All new content is based on real money. No bug fixes since I can remember have happened beyond fixing the hot-tub in the hideouts..... really? Was that a joke?
The ONLY person we EVER see in the game is Iris and he's up to his eyeballs in complaints whenever I see him. It's a wonder he comes in at all.
The game needs much more focus on debugging (or how about just debugging.. we'll settle for just ANY debugging), an increased presence in the game, more of a customer-centric focus (this means every year commenting on at least ONE post by the devs, not just the CM.... at least yearly will be a step-up.. have no English-speaking devs? That's a big chunk of your problem), definitely less real-money crap. Granted, we don't want the game to fail. But seriously, easy on the avarice. You're more likely to attract new costumers with new content than you are with a money-sink.
If you can't balance those requirements, this game will fail.
Plain and simple.
The bar is very high for MMOs anymore because there are so many choices. The time when you could just throw stuff out there and have people buy it is long-past for this game besides for the hard core players.
Speaking of the hard-core players.. you really gave us the shaft with the nerf to the prototype jets. No warning, no offer for compensation. Just took them away (and we paid for those, mind you) and got some half-cocked crap in return. How about a little THOUGHT before you pull a stunt like that and make a rift between yourself and your PAYING customers that had the TRUST in you to buy from you? You still need to fix that, by the way. Prototypes should have at least 8 speed. Before mods. PERIOD.
How about the memory leak that's been plaguing the game since inception? Granted, maybe I'm expecting too much when I switch to the 50th map and the game crashes (typically when doing alerts) on any of my systems. But, that shouldn't happen period.
And the bug of lifting items over your head? Been broken a LONG time.
(and that's the very very short list.. I'm sure people responding to this post can give more examples)
I see post after post falling on deaf ears. NO changes made, no explanations given. How long do you think it will take for people to give up on a game that has all these issues? I'm embarassed to tell anyone about it lately.
This isn't how American games are run. Ban me again for saying it, but that's the truth.
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Post edited by mensar on
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And looking at the suggestions forum, specifically about STO supposedly getting the ability to go back to the character selection screen instead of having to relog, it amazes me how giddy we seem to at the prospect of getting a feature that's standard for the genre 3 years into the game's life. I mean what the hell, Cryptic? Look at what it takes to makes us happy. Also whatever happened to the security reasons you all were touting as the reason for not implementing that in the first place? Nevermind that your database was hacked in December 2010 and you kindly informed your userbase about it in 2012. But hey, your passwords got reset! It was a long struggle but your information is finally safe!
Remember the battlecry of "go back to other MMO" around the time of F2P launch and the introduction to Steam? Where it seems that the game was getting 15k+ logins a day? Well, maybe they listened to what in hindsight is good advice. "Why doesn't this game have a dungeon finder?" "Why can't I change characters without relogging?" Lo and behold, we're now getting half assed (oh boy, alerts!) attempts at similar features except that 15k+ has dwindled to what now feels like 500+. I wonder if even TOR can boast of a percentage drop that big. Speaking of which I remember laughing at that debacle only now to realize I'm in the same boat. In the grand race of catch-up, Cryptic feels like it's placing too little, too late.
Hell, I'll work as a dev for free if I had the option to, and I'm sure others would do the same. Cryptic desperately needs the workers for CO. Being a consumer and all, I have a general knowledge of what we all want, and it sure as hell isn't this cookie-cutter content and gambling crap.
We want a game that has so many leveling paths that you really can play your way,
We want a game which has customization beyond what anything else has ever offered or ever will offer,
We want a game where you truly can be a hero,
We want a game that can last us a lifetime...
Forget Neverwinter, We want Champions!
And I will always be @DZPlayer122.
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Your reading of the patch notes is very selective.
Yes. And I recently abandoned Guild Wars 2 for Champions Online because of how cynical and grindy I found it to be. I think that CO is a fantastic game, the only problem with it is that they market it wrongly.
And yet in a recent interview with VG24/7 they said that their recent financial models in CO and STO--post-PWE--have been very successful.
Ding ding ding ding!
That's what this thread is really about. You've created how many threads about the jets, now? Trailturtle has said that they're looking into this. What more can we ask? If they do nothing and hang us out to dry, then we can complain.
But let's give them a chance, eh?
Why do non-techy types consider everything to be a 'memory leak?' It's like a buzzword for "I'm having computer problems!" these days.
Champions Online is a surprisingly demanding game, and if you want to play the game on full settings, you have to accept that you're going to need a decent computer for that. I run it on full settings on my ROG notebook (yes, notebook) and I've noticed no drops in performance, not even over a pronounced amount of time.
There was an issue relating to the UI almost a year ago. And from everything I can see? They fixed that - almost a year ago!
To be honest, at this point I think you're just throwing stuff out there and hoping ist sticks.
I'll give you that, but that's because it's the only problem that both myself and all of my friends have had. Keep in mind that it's very easy to blame a game for issues that you yourself are having. You need to verify with other people that a problem is actually a problem.
Ultimately though, this thread is basically about you being really angry about the jets situation. But throwing your toys out of the pram and saying that the entire game is terrible just because of one thing you have an issue with isn't mature.
Let's see if they do fix the jet issue, and go from there.
Keep in mind that CO is running with a small 'active team' right now. At this point it's almost an indie game. And those guys are likely doing the very best they can to give us the best game they can with their limited resources. I'm okay with that. I appreciate their efforts. This is the choice of PWE, we can't blame them for that.
However, what we don't know is whether they have another team working on content (like a new zone) or not. They might, and they may be playing their cards close to their chest on this, because the development cycle for a whole zone takes much longer than it does for the simpler missions that the active team put together.
They might be. And all we can do is ask them to reveal information about that when the time is right, or to simply tell us that they have no other people working on content other than the active team. But we need to be reasonable about how we approach that.
In regards to the jets? They listened. On the PTS they're apparently fiddling with them to try and make them a little bit better again, in regards to how much they can do with them. That's more than most MMO developers will do. Comparing CO to the bait & switch lands of GW2 (we're never adding a gear treadmill three months ago versus gear treadmills are awesome now)? I'll take CO any day of the week.
I guess it's a case of 'the grass is always greener,' but we have it better here than most people do at most MMOs. And content isn't everything.
If PWE wanted this game to truly succeed then wouldn't we have gotten more devs and more resources to build the game up? Or at least fix outstanding issues with things in the game.
Trying to say that this game is better than other MMOs for the simple fact that there's no grind....well there can be a grind if you wanted one to be. Just like in GW2, there doesn't have to be a grind if you don't want one. I am near level 80 and I have yet to start grinding for better gear. It might be easier to get the high end gear in CO, but....what's the point of getting better gear when there's nothing new to do with it?
Yeah, new alerts. Alerts that are kicked for level 30s and reduce the effectiveness of that level 40 gear I've gone through all those hours of work for. Alerts that are done in, what, 5 minutes, max?
I want content that can last me longer than commercial breaks.
@Quincy-St-Moth's PRIMUS page
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
For what its worth, top of the line gear is every bit as easy to get in GW2 as in CO (and is extremely easy in CO). The trading post prices for high end gear in GW2 are easily manageable through casual play. The prices for top of the line gear in CO are generally more intense, but the UNITY missions are quick and easy to compensate.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
I spend more time on the forums than I do in game.
I wonder how many resources they poured into reloaded - because it seems that it's driven business away instead of improving it.
I do understand that the devs are working hard and can't do everything. I blame PWE as I've said a dozen times before. Fun fact, kids... the Asian online gaming model... is garbage.
Quick, think of a REALLY AWESOME Asian MMO. I don't care what it is you're going to say, really. Chances are, we've never heard of it. If you say 'it's only in Chinese/Korean/Japanese, already you fail because if there's no market for it in the English-Speaking world it obviously isn't doing well enough. And the reason we've never heard of it is because, like the OP said- they make the product and try to bleed the playerbase for every nickel and dime they can before they just let the ship sink. Then comes another project that is the same way, little to nothing new, and rinse and repeat.
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Munitions additions
Petition to take in game report spam function out
Why not to do surveys and free offers
And we all know where that leads to.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
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I know it gets drilled into folks heads as children, but "excuse" and "explanation" are not the same word.
Wait? Whaaaa..?
While it is self-reported, STO seems to have been pulling in cash hand over fist thanks to the lockboxes.
Wait? Whaaaa..?
My point was that PWE could change their business model for CO, STO maybe, I don't know how many people there are opposed/ for the lockboxes, but in CO, not many of us are. In addition to that, changing their model to give us actual content will bring more money for them and make players happy. By this I mean that they could allow the devs to focus on more actual content and stray from alerts and instanced stuff for a bit, then release it in something like a DLC pack for 500-1000 Z and make more money from that and the players would be happy. With lockboxes here, they make money, but the playerbase isn't happy with lockboxes, changing it around to where the company gets money and players are happier would draw in more players who would buy the content.
Consolidate currency!
Munitions additions
Petition to take in game report spam function out
Why not to do surveys and free offers
"Need" is such a strong word and not one supported by the available evidence.
I am given to understand that the STO playerbase had a similar reaction to the introduction of lockboxes in that game. I would note that the boxes continue to be developed for STO, and that PWE/Cryptic have issued statements that STO is their highest performing game not too long ago. (We'll see what the next quarterly shareholder's report says.)
But "need"? Engaging in hyperbole is doing your argument no favors.
There is no such thing as a free lunch. If you aren't paying for it, you aren't the customer; you are the product being sold.
Dollar, dollar, bill, yo. Cash rules everything around you and me.
I rephrased myself, but still the point is that a business model in which the player is happy and the company makes money is where my point lies. As stated in my earlier post, PWE's lockboxes aren't content that makes the majority of the playerbase happy, adding something that would and charging a small fee for it like a DLC pack or something like it would make the players happy and give them money, and as a bonus to that, the players would have mostly positive feedback on it, which if seen by a potential player, could draw them in and they'd buy it too. In my opinion, a business model in which there is a bit of a compromise that would make both sides happy is more effective than one in which one side isn't happy.
Consolidate currency!
Munitions additions
Petition to take in game report spam function out
Why not to do surveys and free offers
The original Phantasy Star Online?
Final Fantasy XI maybe?
How about Lineage II?
Or Ragnarok Online?
They were pretty big hits for their time.
For newer ones, (A certain word-filtered MMO that rhymes with "ion") was gunning for #2 after WoW, and held on to #2 for a while before TOR came in. Now it's #3. It's doing pretty well for an original IP up against two established Western IPs in the Western market imo.
And yes, one can (and should) blame PWE for their shoddy work and policies, and one shouldn't make excuses for Cryptic either. If they cared that much about Champions, we'd have seen more significant additions by now. I will say that I very much liked On Alert and what we got with that, as well as the improvements, and I like the new fusing system rather than the old crafting system that was more a waste of time than anything. These are good things, steps in the right direction; however, we need more of them, and consistently.
It's good that we are still getting content, but it needs to be more regular, as does communication from the developers to the community, which is probably the greatest reason here why community speculation has been so negative: we aren't getting much from even our community liaison. You can't just keep up communications generally well for years and then all but cease them abruptly and still expect people to have the same attitudes, even if your intentions are good.
There also need to be bugfixes and typo corrections, which would be easy enough to find if bug reports were actually acknowledged, but we have no way of knowing if they are and, judging by the fact that typos and bugs have still not been corrected that have been around for months and longer, seemingly they are not. I have already proposed a volunteer group of players to go around and submit typo and bug reports, but the important thing here is that the developers would have to listen to them. The ball is honestly in their court.
Cryptic are doing some good for the game, and it's not as dire as some would make it out to be. We're getting a good influx of people, but the game isn't at its best thanks to some fundamental bugs that should have been fixed some time ago. Cryptic need to get their team on this and immediately if we hope to retain the new players. It's poor business to do what they're doing regarding that.
Not so bad, not all doom and gloom, but there's significant room for improvement.
If Blizzard launched a Superhero MMO tomorrow CO wouldn't last another week. And not just because of of their resources are so great but because they manage their resources better. When CO was still all new and pink they split their resources up and launched STO. And with CO stagnated. And now with those two games barely handing on they're going to launch another game. Worse the new one's going to be in the swords and orcs playground that half the MMOS are already competing in. It's not just the future of CO I'm worried about, I think Cryptic might be done for.
New effects for old powers
More EXP for Adventure Packs please.
We all know how that works out..
-Disable'd comments on the website
-Ignoration of the community
-Tyshen
-Twitter gets hacked
Champions-Online IS going down the TUBES
Just saying.
Brain teaser: When someone nails themselves to a cross, how do they get the last nail in?
Wait? Whaaaa..?
It's not that you made a topic, it's (ironically) that people were starting to insult you, and then others were starting to defend you by being slightly condescending, which usually leads to a flame war.
For some reason.. this picture is CO.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Ya know whats ironic, im a fur, and i know half the people in that pool.
... ...
shudder
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Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Nice post Bacon Overlord.
Yep, currently I feel like it is. I've given Cryptic-Studios plenty of time post-PWE aquisition for any kind of positive result, and still nothing. Still no focus.
Champions-Online: Wasted potential personified In my opinion I'm sad to say.
Very happy to be proved wrong Cryptic. Surprise me with 'proof in the pudding' investment results, hopefully stemming from a substantial increase in the permanant Dev-team size on the title, a creative and viably-sustainable development plan and a positive re-engagement with the community - ie: communication (which has proven time and again to be your kryptonite).
Dropping my knitting to buff you whilst hitting - Proudly protecting Millennium City's little ones since 2009.
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Wut in the f__$...just..wut....whuuu....WHY IS THIS A THING!
Git Gud M8!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Cause I'm worth it. Playing since 2009.
And what bits the costume doesn't cover.
(I hate the Internet so much sometimes)
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
How YOU durrin?!
I've been here for a couple of years now, and all that time someone has been certain that they were seeing signs CO would be dead inside three months. It's beginning to remind me of the Navy doctors who gave young Lt. Robert Heinlein three years to live - in 1928.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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I hate to compare to CoH (because I'm sure that you're sick of that comparison by now), but the Beta client for what would have been the next version has no fewer than eight new powersets and five power pools (a few are clearly unfinished, but they would have been done by nowm since the client was released in August). The Beta server also included six new story arcs spread across all levels and alignments, plus the fifth and final part of a story arc that had been building for weeks (also permanent content).
And this was with a majority of the developers working on a new game, leaving only a skeleton crew for CoH itself (so the whole "CO devs are all working on Neverwinter" excuse doesn't fly with me).
In that same amount of time, CO came out with... zero powersets, zero new contacts, and zero permanent story arcs (just events that vanished before I could get to them), just a bunch of bikes and short-duration "events" that vanished before I could complete them. Nothing to keep me interested, nothing to look forward to except low FPS and "Invulnerable" characters who fell like they were made of tissue paper.
I'm sorry, CO. I thought you would be my new love, but, in the end, you were just a rebound fling. Maybe if you get your act together, I'll come back.
"It is unthinkable. But such is the nature of villainy, don't you think? To do the unthinkable, to challenge the impossible, to conquer all before you and make destiny your own." - Ghost Widow
And that's why I like villains.
The internetz is one crazy place! tread carefully!
Instead, what do we get? Optional vehicles that you need to pay real-world money for, sporadic event-based content that isn't permanent, and little to no communication from the devs.
This, quite frankly, is bull.
I think it's time we started making a concerted effort to get on PWE's case. Phone calls, calling massive public attention...even boycotting the game till they get their act together. Because at this point, I'd rather pay 15 dollars a month to one of the community-driven "CoH" teams who're trying to produce a new superhero game--at least with them, we know they'll do their best to deliver, as opposed to these deadbeats at PWE.
Wait? Whaaaa..?
They'll notice that due to the boycott it's no longer making enough money to pay for itself, and order it closed.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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or... you know... they won't notice at all. It's not as if they have a light that starts flashing every time someone decides not to spend money on the game... and even if they did... it would be flashing 24/7. Also, they'd be making so much money licensing their "Telepathic flashing light technology" that they could float this game forever.
I've been boycotting the game for years while playing it everyday... it doesn't seem to have motivated them in any way whatsoever.
I remember you said it pretty good one time Jon... but nobody listens to you cause you got the old guy face :C
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Hey! Leave the old man face alone! I happen to have one too!!
:biggrin:
CellarRat33 :: formerly Bsquared
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