This build is scheduled to hit PTS by 5:30pm Pacific on 2/15/13
Greetings!
We're updating PTS with the upcoming update build to test stability, as well as the items detailed below.
Please format any bugs you find in the following format: Bug
Where it happens
What happens
Release Notes:
- The Lemurians are invading! Team up with 7-9 other players to play this queued event and save Millennium City.
- You can find it in the queue list (press - ). It is a 10-player queue. Vehicles are advised, but not required. It is rumored that UNTIL may have brought some hover discs to use in the defense of the city.
"Bodyguard" style missions are, IMO, never fun. I hope the devs learned from Sky Command.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
More vehicle nonsense? Passing. No thanks. DO NOT WANT.
"There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
Well, I tried it...and..he doesnt hit hard enough...the instance itself was nice!
Felt like something was missing...
EDIT: Just realised why this was happening..my damage was too pathetically low to be recorded...e.g. Your Mental Leech deals 7 (69) Ego Damage to Bleak Harbinger.
EDIT 2: Trail gave a good explaination as to where the Champs was..now all I need to do is find out where PSI was hiding during this time and dump my telepath there, as to a reason why she didnt (couldnt) participate.
PROs:
-Instance was very nice, I enjoyed the scenery
-Shapeshifting mini boss was nice!
-I liked those flying Exotus thingies..which flew around, intresting design..
-Being able to fight at level 40! YAY! Massive woop. I hope it STAYS this way, or at least have the instance level gated at 35+
CONs:
-The Bleak Harbinger didnt do enough damage IMO...it was ok, but not near Gravitar Standards at all..
-Enemy Fighter Speeds need to be reduced...they are quite fast..
-Lack of Challenging Mechanics (except the annoying camera angle)
-I heard a team mate suggest this and I do sort of agree...if you want to emphasise the need to take down fighters fast to be able to lay into boss...shouldnt he be immune to damage in the first place?..even though there was a marked increase in damage dealt after UNTIL Laser beam, people did fine without killing the drones..
I felt that the harbinger fight needs to be explained better.
Although they did say you have to kill the fighters in order to actually damage it, I think it needs to be emphasized and pointed out in a bolder fashion.
I enjoyed the mission, its a nice change of pace. The overall scenery was very nice also.
I would suggest REMOVING the timers in the hoverdisk, also slightly adjust the fighter flight speed, as sometimes they were just all over the place, and even then it was a pain targetting them over the Harbinger.
Suggestions:
Adjust enemy fighter vehicle speed
Enlarge enemy fighter targetting box
Emphasis better direction on Harbinger takedown.
1) Absolutely must remove the timers on the UNTIL discs, and you need to make them available at the spawn in point like Sky Command. Of course, one then asks how do they time out after the mission.
2) Absolutely must better explain how you must defeat the fliers flying about the boss.
3) BUG: At max settings, the new Lemurian Tank (new reward) VANISHES (all you see is the engine and blue glowy lines) past about 20ft away. If you're on lower settings you will not see it AT ALL.
4) BUG: (long standing) There's an issue attacking the boss with powers like Conflagration. The same issue that has been around FOREVER on Live - the 'damage summon' bit of it (as it behaves like a pet in a way) has to be within 50ft (or whatever range the power is), but on giant creatures, the 'hit box' is generally at a mob's foot. So if you're flying above the end boss, you're nowhere near 50ft range for that power.
In short - would be nice to fix that bug (as otherwise you need to be UNDERWATER to hit the boss, and even then you might not be able to).
5) I can't imagine a melee only character in this mission. Even with the UNTIL Hoverdisk you'll be absolutely HATING your life here.
Cut scenes were a bit rushed and the death of the creature was sudden without some long standing wail or visual decay into (spoiler). Comic panels would really intensify the cut scenes like it did for Unity Carrier Defense.
But the biggest thing that I think killed the Until Carrier Defense was...having only vehicle rewards. Please include chances for non vehicles rewards. Otherwise people won't play it beyond the first few runs or until they get the vehicle and be done with it.
Otherwise excellent. We need more stuff like this every few months. Aside from new mission chains. =b
Alright, finished the new instance. I've done it twice now with my support character Kali.
The Good:
The instance looks pretty.
There's voice acting that doesn't have Steve Urkel coming from an asian guy.
The kraken is great looking.
Invasion kit has a chance at a 5 slot tank (2 weapon, 2 def, 1 utility)
The Bad:
The water is just deep enough in spots to drastically slow down run speed while not deep enough to swim.
There's no direction aside from circles which you need to zoom the map out quite a bit to actually see.
There needs to be a better explanation as to why you need to take out the fliers when fighting the kraken.
Rank 1 mod rewards for level 35+ content are a slap in the face.
Green rewards for level 35+ 10 man content is a slap in the face. At the very least, the rewards should be blue if not purple.
The kraken is so huge it's extremely annoying for close range and melee characters.
The kraken either has no schtick attacks, or they're not hooked up properly.
The kraken hits like a wet noodle. Even my Ebon Destruction support character was able to easily tank it.
We don't know who's really behind the invasion, no leader or organization is named.
No clue why the Champions aren't assisting with the fight.
The Buggy: The new tank disappears from view when looked at from far enough away.
Suggestions:
The kraken should take no damage until he's vulnerable.
The vehicles need to stick closer to the kraken.
The UNTIL hoverdisks should last longer than 15 minutes.
The kraken needs AoE to keep everyone else on their toes during the fight.
Have Defender (and/or other Champions) at the spawn point directing people or something so the Champions have some presence.
Suggestions:(in addition to what everyone else has been saying)
- Have him/it/her put those tentacles to use? Grab Heroes in holds, apply some form of NTTG perhaps?
- a melee attack from that boss shouldnt do less than 1k damage I managed to take 900 dmg in total from two melee thrust attacks on myself and PFF.
- Have the boss change and become more powerful throughout stages in the fight? Similar to how Psimon transforms? But in a more Lemurian way?
- Make it immune to damage instead of super resistant..that would enforce the need to remove enemy fighters from around the creatures head. For the UNTIL -Resistance Ray to hit then wail on him.
BUG: When the boss dies, if your character is where a stone tentacle spawns (his bodily remains), you're screwed and stuck in it. No reward for you!
Short of /killme anyhow.
Also, after two attempts at the boss, I STILL have not gotten Conflag to fire off ONCE against the boss. This seriously needs to be looked at and FINALLY fixed. Although to be frank, I don't expect it to be.
Please boost the Leviathan to make it worth a 10 man mission.
Don't know how much hate this will get but it seems the tank has a rather high drop rate which means the mission will run out of purpose very shortly.
Please throw in 1 or 2 super, super rare costume pieces so that players can keep trying for them.
A super, super, super, rare random Legion gear for 1 person in the whole team will have people farming it for months to come. Even longer than Gravitar that's for sure. More players playing higher chance of them buying vehicles for the mission.
Perhaps an action figure of the Leviathan?
Perhaps a super rare chance for a drifter salvage or 2. Give them a bit to tempt them to buy keys to get more.
Perhaps a gauranteed takofanes box? You want them to buy keys don't you?
Also, improve the rewards of Carrier Defense to revive it so that it does not become efforts down the drain. It is a good mission but totally lack reasons for people to do it.
Please fix the tank disappearing when viewed further away bug (and further away is not far at all).
Give the Leviathan more attacks. (huge AoE cloud of poison ink/gas is good and easy enough to do, just use a sup-up, larger version of epidemic).
It has many arms and tentacles, let it do multiple attacks each time and it can even use all the attacks versus 1 player.
-The Leviathan looked AWESOME! Best looking villain in the game, bar none!
-The drop rates for the Lemurian tank are incredibly generous, so thank you! Will there be a variant offered (even on the C-Store) for one without the crystals and in a more...subtle color?
-Rain! I hope rain gets added to regular MC as something that'd happen from time to time.
-I'm glad this had cinematics and full voice acting.
Cons
-The lack of costume rewards makes me a sad Logan.
-One thing that really bugged me is that it's visually effected by things like bleeds, fire, and the like, so instead of being able to appreciate all of the wonderful work you guys put into modelling and skinning this bad boy, all I see is this giant glowing mass.
-At least on my end, the tentacles didn't seem to rotate. If you're unable to have them animated by the time he's released, I'd suggest just taking out his lower torso and only showing the animated ground tentacles.
-It was a very silent fight. With the exceptions of when he'd roar every 5 min or so, I didn't hear anything. No grunts, growls, or even his abilities.
-His damage is rather laughable. I was more afraid of the pint-sized drones than I was of him. I honestly believe that if we all just parked there and let our energy builders do the work for us, we would have won in forty minutes or so without a single KO.
-Aside from the 'destroy all of the flyers in order to weaken him', there were no special features to this fight. No giant tidal waves to avoid, no Lemurian wizards that you have to kill in order to stop them from summoning destructive thunderstorms, no high damage tentacle or breath attacks with telltale signs.
-I really, really, REALLY disliked the look of the Lemurians that were summoning the creature. Nothing worked, from the coloring to the costume pieces chosen.
-Where are the good Lemurians in all of this? The 'human' ones. I'd love to see at some point a few dozen arrive and fight enemy NPCs.
-Why weren't the Champions defending the city? Even if they didn't help you take down the Leviathan, I'd like it if they were on the ground, fighting off endless hordes of Lemurians.
-Why weren't the Champions defending the city? Even if they didn't help you take down the Leviathan, I'd like it if they were on the ground, fighting off endless hordes of Lemurians.
Defender is probably busy bonking Witchcraft at the Champions HQ.
Kinetik's just burnt up his last pair of boots with friction.
Nighthawk is probably down with a sore throat after spending too much time speaking like Batman.
Sapphire is on her world tour concert.
Ironclad would have probably dropped by too except he is still on the 30 minutes cooldown after being summoned as a backup.
10% Chance to get the vehicle is way too high for an alert which many will want to repeat many a times (and will do because we've been waiting 9 months for a dev response let alone content). These vehicles will become too common, and severely devalue other vehicles (which will effect Champions income as people shell out less money for other kinds of vehicle)
I STRONGLY URGE you do not make a vehicle a common drop ^^;;;
I would change the 10% Chance for a vehicle, to 1% Chance.
--
As for the fight, Take Qwijybo, Teleiosaurus, Shadow Collossus as examples, each have charged attacks which challenge Tank Characters, and each have High-Damage AoE's which test a teams ability to block and threaten the team (Gravitars yellow bubble is a fine example of an AoE you need to avoid)....here there's nothing.
If people are Solo-ing these fights like Teleiosaurus and Qwijybo (which they are), then surely a 10 man fight such as this, should be at LEAST TWICE that powerful.
I know im always bragging about difficulty needing to be increased, but it's like youre afraid of giving us a challenge and this rly insults peoples characters.
--
I must disagree with wesley on giving us drifter salvage, as the games income would be sliced again, what is important is that Champions remains profitable. We spend real life money to get Keys for drifter salvage, giving all that away for free would highly damage Champions financial income.
I do agree however with a rare chance (like 3%) to get a random piece of Legion gear and/or costume piece, as currently to aqcuire one is a little absurd.
No. No giving out more Legion gear. That stuff broke CO's difficulty even more than it's broken now (as in made it WAY, WAY too easy), and that's the last thing we need.
So, what is the Conflag/Avalanche/Lightning Storm bug with this boss? Let me tell you:
Mobs have a hit box. Bigger mobs have a bigger hit box (obviously). Your normal 50/100ft attacks (Fireball, Force Cascade, Two Gun Mojo, etc etc) draw an invisible line from you to the closest point on that hitbox, and assuming you're in range, you'll be able to attack the target and you'll see your power's effect.
PBAoE powers (Epidemic, etc) work the same way - as long as your area of effect touches the hitbox, you'll hit. Same with any and all melee moves (you just have to be touching the hitbox).
Conflag, Avalanche, and Lightning Storm do not work that way because they 'summon' an invisible pet that deals their damage. In LS's case (and Conflag if you take the advantage for some reason), this pet tracks the target.
But that's not the issue.
The issue is that the pet spawns ONLY at the EXACT bottom center of their hitbox. Take the mob's length and width, and find the center point. Then find the mob's bottom of their hitbox. Those two points is where the pet spawns.
CO will happily let you use those three powers if you're in 'range' of the power (you to the mob's hitbox), but it will eat your energy and deal zero damage if you're not in range of that point above.
The Kraken is TOO BIG of a target. There is absolutely NO PLACE TO STAND, above or under the water, where you can be in range as mentioned.
Thus, those three major damage dealing powers (and how my main deals damage) are completely WORTHLESS in this fight.
This is a VERY LONG STANDING BUG and the absolute size of this mob finally shows how problematic it can be. Here's a NOT TO SCALE AND REALLY GENERIC LOOKING DUE TO MY LACK OF ART TALENT picture showing the issue:
I strongly disagree that this boss should be as damaging as Gravitar, given your advised to bring vehicles to use for this having Gravitars damage is pretty much adding a stamp of fail to this leaving it to the tiny portion of gamers who enjoy that kinda stuff. Last time I checked Vehicles couldn't hold a candle to a FF's or even some of the more survivable AT's durability so balancing it so you need strong survival tools seems like a bad idea.
Seeing as I play only melee I can't say I'm looking forward to being forced to use a vehicle if I want to be something that resembles effective in this alert.
I would like to say that I was surprised and satisfied that powers like Strafing Run and Implosion Engine hit and deal damage no matter where I direct the target reticule or how far the source of the target is respectively.
Especially the Implosion engine from really high up being thrown and watch it disappear into the fog below, its lights still visible and spinning as it descends further, and then doing its damage.
Powers are really satisfying to use throughout this whole fight. Its just that some of them as mentioned earlier are not doing their damage at all. Make it so that the entire enemy is a target zone for getting hit by AoE damage.
Havent seen this, but as others have said, this is doomed to failiure just like the carrier defence.
1) no worthwhile rewards for most people, just vehicle stuff
2) no level restriction on something that needs it, lvl 6s CANNOT contribute enough in fights like this, boosting a characters lvl is NO SUBSTITUTE for the extra powers that actual lvl gives!
These 10 man alert like missions need to give decent rewards and be rampage alerts the same as gravitar.
They are the reasons noone bothered with carrier defence after a few days, and the reasons the same thing will happen with this one.
10% Chance to get the vehicle is way too high for an alert which many will want to repeat many a times (and will do because we've been waiting 9 months for a dev response let alone content). These vehicles will become too common, and severely devalue other vehicles (which will effect Champions income as people shell out less money for other kinds of vehicle)
I STRONGLY URGE you do not make a vehicle a common drop ^^;;;
I would change the 10% Chance for a vehicle, to 1% Chance.
--
Just a guess on my part but perhaps the 10% drop rate is being used to try and get people spending money on the vehicle stuff (which doesn't seem to be selling well). If people have a free vehicle to try out they are more likely to be interested in the vehicle mods or perhaps investing in a better vehicle.
10% Chance to get the vehicle is way too high for an alert which many will want to repeat many a times (and will do because we've been waiting 9 months for a dev response let alone content). These vehicles will become too common, and severely devalue other vehicles (which will effect Champions income as people shell out less money for other kinds of vehicle)
I STRONGLY URGE you do not make a vehicle a common drop ^^;;;
I would change the 10% Chance for a vehicle, to 1% Chance.
--
As for the fight, Take Qwijybo, Teleiosaurus, Shadow Collossus as examples, each have charged attacks which challenge Tank Characters, and each have High-Damage AoE's which test a teams ability to block and threaten the team (Gravitars yellow bubble is a fine example of an AoE you need to avoid)....here there's nothing.
If people are Solo-ing these fights like Teleiosaurus and Qwijybo (which they are), then surely a 10 man fight such as this, should be at LEAST TWICE that powerful.
I know im always bragging about difficulty needing to be increased, but it's like youre afraid of giving us a challenge and this rly insults peoples characters.
--
I must disagree with wesley on giving us drifter salvage, as the games income would be sliced again, what is important is that Champions remains profitable. We spend real life money to get Keys for drifter salvage, giving all that away for free would highly damage Champions financial income.
I do agree however with a rare chance (like 3%) to get a random piece of Legion gear and/or costume piece, as currently to aqcuire one is a little absurd.
Actually, I'd say you disagree with me on this. I'm actually a fan of the high drop rates.
Actually, I'd say you disagree with me on this. I'm actually a fan of the high drop rates.
Ditto.
If someone does 76 runs of Therakiel lair just to get a Sword (this is just an excample, i pulled it out of thin air). Rather than does 10 runs of it for the sword, goes do other stuff, does the lair because theres more in it than a sword.
If the lemuriam whateverkraken has more than just a tank, does it make it a fun to run it 81 times or just 7 times for the tank. Then you can just do it when ever you feel like it rather than 'must run 47 times more to ge the tank'.
Putting some abysmal drop rate in a mission that doesn't offer fishpoop(does it offer more? No idea.), make people run it for the fun, they run it for the tank. Or some do, other just pass off the whole mission because 83 runs needed for the tank (Hey Air Ship Defense Thing...). And some people get the tank and never do the mission again.
Some game, gave you a full set of roman armor after you did the mission. And you came back to do the mission again, many times. Not because of the armor. It was fun (well, i though it was).
But maybe it's just me, doing stuff over and over and over again because you might get pair of tights isn't just fun. I do stuff over and over again, get paid to do it. It's a job. This is not.
CHAMPIONS ONLINE:Join Date: Apr 2008
And playing by myself since Aug 2009 Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
In a roundabout way, the high drop rate is a great way to get more people involved in the vehicle system. While, personally, I'm not a fan, it's at least some way to get more people involved.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Suggestions for bosses in CO (Specifically the Kraken, Gravitar and any new 10 man bosses, also the Cosmics too):
1) Change major AoE charge attacks from static numerical damage to percentage based dynamic attacks that ignore portions of resistance, (If not all resistance).
2) Rewrite the aggro algorythm so Tank role gets a much more significant boost to Aggro and Melee Offense gets a small reduction, Ranged Offense should have slightly more aggro than melee offense but still significantly less than the Tank role.
3) Drastically boost the damage on Melee single target attacks, possibly make them percentage based as well.
4) Create phases when the bosses become immune to all damage (Like Therakiel and as per Ravenforce's suggestion). To make them immune again, require a new task to be completed (IE in Therakiel's fight, you need to defeat his minions. For the Kraken, taking out the flyers would be interesting. And a quick suggestion for The Bronze King if it ever gets looked at, using he Mandragalore on him to make him vulnerable, of course fix that fight all together before doing that).
5) Create new forms of the boss where they use new attacks and have different attack patterns, (IE they attack a lot more often, summon minions etc), changing appearances and having some sort of cinematics to this would be helpful.
6) Secondary targets to non charge AoEs take significantly less damage than the primary targets.
I must disagree with wesley on giving us drifter salvage, as the games income would be sliced again, what is important is that Champions remains profitable. We spend real life money to get Keys for drifter salvage, giving all that away for free would highly damage Champions financial income.
I do agree however with a rare chance (like 3%) to get a random piece of Legion gear and/or costume piece, as currently to aqcuire one is a little absurd.
Snake, actually my suggestion of dropping drifter salvages is not intended as a guaranteed chance. That will certainly affect the income and profit of CO. I was thinking more like a low 1-2% chance of getting 1 or 2 salvages. Perhaps if people get some salvages, but quite slowly, they may be tempted to top up the rest by buying keys to open boxes. Do you think that might work?
Snake, actually my suggestion of dropping drifter salvages is not intended as a guaranteed chance. That will certainly affect the income and profit of CO. I was thinking more like a low 1-2% chance of getting 1 or 2 salvages. Perhaps if people get some salvages, but quite slowly, they may be tempted to top up the rest by buying keys to open boxes. Do you think that might work?
This sort of thing is used quite frequently in non gaming businesses (and perhaps in gaming as well). It is sometimes called, "priming the pump." The idea is that, if balanced properly, it encourages people who have received a portion of the purchase price of the product for free to spend some of their own money, that they might have otherwise not spent, to get the product.
"Hey the product is $10 and I already have $4 worth of gift certificates/coupons. It would be a shame to just waste that four bucks so maybe I'll spend six bucks of my own."
The basic concept has worked for countless companies for centuries.
This sort of thing is used quite frequently in non gaming businesses (and perhaps in gaming as well). It is sometimes called, "priming the pump." The idea is that, if balanced properly, it encourages people who have received a portion of the purchase price of the product for free to spend some of their own money, that they might have otherwise not spent, to get the product.
"Hey the product is $10 and I already have $4 worth of gift certificates/coupons. It would be a shame to just waste that four bucks so maybe I'll spend six bucks of my own."
The basic concept has worked for countless companies for centuries.
It wouldn't be out of line either, for CO to do such a thing. They already had before, when we had "grab bags" instead of the lock boxes and there was a temporary mission from Drifter for a week or so to earn 1 grab bag a day which usually gave Salvage or a very, very, very small chance of something else.
It wouldn't be out of line either, for CO to do such a thing. They already had before, when we had "grab bags" instead of the lock boxes and there was a temporary mission from Drifter for a week or so to earn 1 grab bag a day which usually gave Salvage or a very, very, very small chance of something else.
The trick is balancing the frequency and availability of such things so that they can neither be exploited, (thereby defeating their "priming purpose"), nor relied upon as a full-on replacement for the system they are intended to "prime".
IMO, another idea would be to grant additional bonuses for buying things like keys. For instance, "buy 10 keys and get 25 salvage free" or "buy 10 keys and get a single 1-use item which grants you 2X whatever you get from the next lockbox you open".
Another idea would be a purchase bonus that you get to pick 1 of any no-longer-available lockboxes to be placed into a character's inventory of your choice.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Perhaps if people get some salvages, but quite slowly, they may be tempted to top up the rest by buying keys to open boxes. Do you think that might work?
As a person who has never and will never buy a gambling key, but still has a few salvage from ye olde Drifter mission:
NOPE.
I would collect the salvage with a passing interest and, if it's never enough to buy anything, it can join Snake Gulch Snake Bucks in my inventory's list of joke currency.
As a person who has never and will never buy a gambling key, but still has a few salvage from ye olde Drifter mission:
NOPE.
I would collect the salvage with a passing interest and, if it's never enough to buy anything, it can join Snake Gulch Snake Bucks in my inventory's list of joke currency.
That's fine because everyone has the choice to decide what they spend on. There are people who do spend on keys and this may be a good hook.
Well. I buy Lockbox keys. But only to put them on the Auctionhouse for profit. With the current utter hiatus in Costume set releases I just have no other use for my monthly stipend of 500 points. And 500 Points = 5 Keys = 100-200 globals = 1 or 2 full retcons! Yay!
So, glad that this event doesn't have many bugs in it (short of Conflag/Avalanche/Lightning Storm not working against the boss, or an invisible Wonder Woman tank, or a few other minor things) as who want to take a guess that these issues are all going onto Live tomorrow?
Wonder what they'll say next week to avoid saying "understaffed, we're givin it all she's got, captain, more vehicles!"
I wish they would just go ahead and be upfront with us.
"Sorry guys, look, the majority of us are working on NWN, so within the next 2 - 3 months, expect a lack of communication from the Developer team due to Never Winter Night's release. Within time, we will continue to eventually transfer dedicated teams back to Champions Online. Until then, please bare with us and understand."
If they said something like in the VERY beginning, then the community would have a completely different tone than it does now regarding all the negativity.
I wish they would just go ahead and be upfront with us.
"Sorry guys, look, the majority of us are working on NWN, so within the next 2 - 3 months, expect a lack of communication from the Developer team due to Never Winter Night's release. Within time, we will continue to eventually transfer dedicated teams back to Champions Online. Until then, please bare with us and understand."
If they said something like in the VERY beginning, then the community would have a completely different tone than it does now regarding all the negativity.
I am not one to really defend Cryptic (anymore) but TT seemed pretty up front with us. Who's to say what he said wasn't the truth?
Comments
My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
__________________________
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
"There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
Phew.. I was worried this patch would *Explitives Deleted*
Felt like something was missing...
EDIT: Just realised why this was happening..my damage was too pathetically low to be recorded...e.g. Your Mental Leech deals 7 (69) Ego Damage to Bleak Harbinger.
EDIT 2: Trail gave a good explaination as to where the Champs was..now all I need to do is find out where PSI was hiding during this time and dump my telepath there, as to a reason why she didnt (couldnt) participate.
PROs:
-Instance was very nice, I enjoyed the scenery
-Shapeshifting mini boss was nice!
-I liked those flying Exotus thingies..which flew around, intresting design..
-Being able to fight at level 40! YAY! Massive woop. I hope it STAYS this way, or at least have the instance level gated at 35+
CONs:
-The Bleak Harbinger didnt do enough damage IMO...it was ok, but not near Gravitar Standards at all..
-Enemy Fighter Speeds need to be reduced...they are quite fast..
-Lack of Challenging Mechanics (except the annoying camera angle)
-I heard a team mate suggest this and I do sort of agree...if you want to emphasise the need to take down fighters fast to be able to lay into boss...shouldnt he be immune to damage in the first place?..even though there was a marked increase in damage dealt after UNTIL Laser beam, people did fine without killing the drones..
My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
__________________________
Although they did say you have to kill the fighters in order to actually damage it, I think it needs to be emphasized and pointed out in a bolder fashion.
I enjoyed the mission, its a nice change of pace. The overall scenery was very nice also.
I would suggest REMOVING the timers in the hoverdisk, also slightly adjust the fighter flight speed, as sometimes they were just all over the place, and even then it was a pain targetting them over the Harbinger.
Suggestions:
Adjust enemy fighter vehicle speed
Enlarge enemy fighter targetting box
Emphasis better direction on Harbinger takedown.
Good stuff Cryptic.
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2) Absolutely must better explain how you must defeat the fliers flying about the boss.
3) BUG: At max settings, the new Lemurian Tank (new reward) VANISHES (all you see is the engine and blue glowy lines) past about 20ft away. If you're on lower settings you will not see it AT ALL.
4) BUG: (long standing) There's an issue attacking the boss with powers like Conflagration. The same issue that has been around FOREVER on Live - the 'damage summon' bit of it (as it behaves like a pet in a way) has to be within 50ft (or whatever range the power is), but on giant creatures, the 'hit box' is generally at a mob's foot. So if you're flying above the end boss, you're nowhere near 50ft range for that power.
In short - would be nice to fix that bug (as otherwise you need to be UNDERWATER to hit the boss, and even then you might not be able to).
5) I can't imagine a melee only character in this mission. Even with the UNTIL Hoverdisk you'll be absolutely HATING your life here.
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But the biggest thing that I think killed the Until Carrier Defense was...having only vehicle rewards. Please include chances for non vehicles rewards. Otherwise people won't play it beyond the first few runs or until they get the vehicle and be done with it.
Otherwise excellent. We need more stuff like this every few months. Aside from new mission chains. =b
The Good:
The instance looks pretty.
There's voice acting that doesn't have Steve Urkel coming from an asian guy.
The kraken is great looking.
Invasion kit has a chance at a 5 slot tank (2 weapon, 2 def, 1 utility)
The Bad:
The water is just deep enough in spots to drastically slow down run speed while not deep enough to swim.
There's no direction aside from circles which you need to zoom the map out quite a bit to actually see.
There needs to be a better explanation as to why you need to take out the fliers when fighting the kraken.
Rank 1 mod rewards for level 35+ content are a slap in the face.
Green rewards for level 35+ 10 man content is a slap in the face. At the very least, the rewards should be blue if not purple.
The kraken is so huge it's extremely annoying for close range and melee characters.
The kraken either has no schtick attacks, or they're not hooked up properly.
The kraken hits like a wet noodle. Even my Ebon Destruction support character was able to easily tank it.
We don't know who's really behind the invasion, no leader or organization is named.
No clue why the Champions aren't assisting with the fight.
The Buggy:
The new tank disappears from view when looked at from far enough away.
Suggestions:
The kraken should take no damage until he's vulnerable.
The vehicles need to stick closer to the kraken.
The UNTIL hoverdisks should last longer than 15 minutes.
The kraken needs AoE to keep everyone else on their toes during the fight.
Have Defender (and/or other Champions) at the spawn point directing people or something so the Champions have some presence.
Thanks to @jedaithe, @Ravenforce, @Saleen, @Radia, and @Steveburnside for the help queueing and input.
- Have him/it/her put those tentacles to use? Grab Heroes in holds, apply some form of NTTG perhaps?
- a melee attack from that boss shouldnt do less than 1k damage I managed to take 900 dmg in total from two melee thrust attacks on myself and PFF.
- Have the boss change and become more powerful throughout stages in the fight? Similar to how Psimon transforms? But in a more Lemurian way?
- Make it immune to damage instead of super resistant..that would enforce the need to remove enemy fighters from around the creatures head. For the UNTIL -Resistance Ray to hit then wail on him.
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Short of /killme anyhow.
Also, after two attempts at the boss, I STILL have not gotten Conflag to fire off ONCE against the boss. This seriously needs to be looked at and FINALLY fixed. Although to be frank, I don't expect it to be.
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Don't know how much hate this will get but it seems the tank has a rather high drop rate which means the mission will run out of purpose very shortly.
Please throw in 1 or 2 super, super rare costume pieces so that players can keep trying for them.
A super, super, super, rare random Legion gear for 1 person in the whole team will have people farming it for months to come. Even longer than Gravitar that's for sure. More players playing higher chance of them buying vehicles for the mission.
Perhaps an action figure of the Leviathan?
Perhaps a super rare chance for a drifter salvage or 2. Give them a bit to tempt them to buy keys to get more.
Perhaps a gauranteed takofanes box? You want them to buy keys don't you?
Also, improve the rewards of Carrier Defense to revive it so that it does not become efforts down the drain. It is a good mission but totally lack reasons for people to do it.
Please fix the tank disappearing when viewed further away bug (and further away is not far at all).
Give the Leviathan more attacks. (huge AoE cloud of poison ink/gas is good and easy enough to do, just use a sup-up, larger version of epidemic).
It has many arms and tentacles, let it do multiple attacks each time and it can even use all the attacks versus 1 player.
-Content! Thank you!
-The Leviathan looked AWESOME! Best looking villain in the game, bar none!
-The drop rates for the Lemurian tank are incredibly generous, so thank you! Will there be a variant offered (even on the C-Store) for one without the crystals and in a more...subtle color?
-Rain! I hope rain gets added to regular MC as something that'd happen from time to time.
-I'm glad this had cinematics and full voice acting.
Cons
-The lack of costume rewards makes me a sad Logan.
-One thing that really bugged me is that it's visually effected by things like bleeds, fire, and the like, so instead of being able to appreciate all of the wonderful work you guys put into modelling and skinning this bad boy, all I see is this giant glowing mass.
-At least on my end, the tentacles didn't seem to rotate. If you're unable to have them animated by the time he's released, I'd suggest just taking out his lower torso and only showing the animated ground tentacles.
-It was a very silent fight. With the exceptions of when he'd roar every 5 min or so, I didn't hear anything. No grunts, growls, or even his abilities.
-His damage is rather laughable. I was more afraid of the pint-sized drones than I was of him. I honestly believe that if we all just parked there and let our energy builders do the work for us, we would have won in forty minutes or so without a single KO.
-Aside from the 'destroy all of the flyers in order to weaken him', there were no special features to this fight. No giant tidal waves to avoid, no Lemurian wizards that you have to kill in order to stop them from summoning destructive thunderstorms, no high damage tentacle or breath attacks with telltale signs.
-I really, really, REALLY disliked the look of the Lemurians that were summoning the creature. Nothing worked, from the coloring to the costume pieces chosen.
-Where are the good Lemurians in all of this? The 'human' ones. I'd love to see at some point a few dozen arrive and fight enemy NPCs.
-Why weren't the Champions defending the city? Even if they didn't help you take down the Leviathan, I'd like it if they were on the ground, fighting off endless hordes of Lemurians.
Defender is probably busy bonking Witchcraft at the Champions HQ.
Kinetik's just burnt up his last pair of boots with friction.
Nighthawk is probably down with a sore throat after spending too much time speaking like Batman.
Sapphire is on her world tour concert.
Ironclad would have probably dropped by too except he is still on the 30 minutes cooldown after being summoned as a backup.
10% Chance to get the vehicle is way too high for an alert which many will want to repeat many a times (and will do because we've been waiting 9 months for a dev response let alone content). These vehicles will become too common, and severely devalue other vehicles (which will effect Champions income as people shell out less money for other kinds of vehicle)
I STRONGLY URGE you do not make a vehicle a common drop ^^;;;
I would change the 10% Chance for a vehicle, to 1% Chance.
--
As for the fight, Take Qwijybo, Teleiosaurus, Shadow Collossus as examples, each have charged attacks which challenge Tank Characters, and each have High-Damage AoE's which test a teams ability to block and threaten the team (Gravitars yellow bubble is a fine example of an AoE you need to avoid)....here there's nothing.
If people are Solo-ing these fights like Teleiosaurus and Qwijybo (which they are), then surely a 10 man fight such as this, should be at LEAST TWICE that powerful.
I know im always bragging about difficulty needing to be increased, but it's like youre afraid of giving us a challenge and this rly insults peoples characters.
--
I must disagree with wesley on giving us drifter salvage, as the games income would be sliced again, what is important is that Champions remains profitable. We spend real life money to get Keys for drifter salvage, giving all that away for free would highly damage Champions financial income.
I do agree however with a rare chance (like 3%) to get a random piece of Legion gear and/or costume piece, as currently to aqcuire one is a little absurd.
So, what is the Conflag/Avalanche/Lightning Storm bug with this boss? Let me tell you:
Mobs have a hit box. Bigger mobs have a bigger hit box (obviously). Your normal 50/100ft attacks (Fireball, Force Cascade, Two Gun Mojo, etc etc) draw an invisible line from you to the closest point on that hitbox, and assuming you're in range, you'll be able to attack the target and you'll see your power's effect.
PBAoE powers (Epidemic, etc) work the same way - as long as your area of effect touches the hitbox, you'll hit. Same with any and all melee moves (you just have to be touching the hitbox).
Conflag, Avalanche, and Lightning Storm do not work that way because they 'summon' an invisible pet that deals their damage. In LS's case (and Conflag if you take the advantage for some reason), this pet tracks the target.
But that's not the issue.
The issue is that the pet spawns ONLY at the EXACT bottom center of their hitbox. Take the mob's length and width, and find the center point. Then find the mob's bottom of their hitbox. Those two points is where the pet spawns.
CO will happily let you use those three powers if you're in 'range' of the power (you to the mob's hitbox), but it will eat your energy and deal zero damage if you're not in range of that point above.
The Kraken is TOO BIG of a target. There is absolutely NO PLACE TO STAND, above or under the water, where you can be in range as mentioned.
Thus, those three major damage dealing powers (and how my main deals damage) are completely WORTHLESS in this fight.
This is a VERY LONG STANDING BUG and the absolute size of this mob finally shows how problematic it can be. Here's a NOT TO SCALE AND REALLY GENERIC LOOKING DUE TO MY LACK OF ART TALENT picture showing the issue:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/49m3iqluckmun57/COConflagIssue.jpg
Go test it out on a Mega-D today and see what I mean.
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Seeing as I play only melee I can't say I'm looking forward to being forced to use a vehicle if I want to be something that resembles effective in this alert.
Especially the Implosion engine from really high up being thrown and watch it disappear into the fog below, its lights still visible and spinning as it descends further, and then doing its damage.
Powers are really satisfying to use throughout this whole fight. Its just that some of them as mentioned earlier are not doing their damage at all. Make it so that the entire enemy is a target zone for getting hit by AoE damage.
1) no worthwhile rewards for most people, just vehicle stuff
2) no level restriction on something that needs it, lvl 6s CANNOT contribute enough in fights like this, boosting a characters lvl is NO SUBSTITUTE for the extra powers that actual lvl gives!
These 10 man alert like missions need to give decent rewards and be rampage alerts the same as gravitar.
They are the reasons noone bothered with carrier defence after a few days, and the reasons the same thing will happen with this one.
Just a guess on my part but perhaps the 10% drop rate is being used to try and get people spending money on the vehicle stuff (which doesn't seem to be selling well). If people have a free vehicle to try out they are more likely to be interested in the vehicle mods or perhaps investing in a better vehicle.
Actually, I'd say you disagree with me on this. I'm actually a fan of the high drop rates.
Ditto.
If someone does 76 runs of Therakiel lair just to get a Sword (this is just an excample, i pulled it out of thin air). Rather than does 10 runs of it for the sword, goes do other stuff, does the lair because theres more in it than a sword.
If the lemuriam whateverkraken has more than just a tank, does it make it a fun to run it 81 times or just 7 times for the tank. Then you can just do it when ever you feel like it rather than 'must run 47 times more to ge the tank'.
Putting some abysmal drop rate in a mission that doesn't offer fishpoop(does it offer more? No idea.), make people run it for the fun, they run it for the tank. Or some do, other just pass off the whole mission because 83 runs needed for the tank (Hey Air Ship Defense Thing...). And some people get the tank and never do the mission again.
Some game, gave you a full set of roman armor after you did the mission. And you came back to do the mission again, many times. Not because of the armor. It was fun (well, i though it was).
But maybe it's just me, doing stuff over and over and over again because you might get pair of tights isn't just fun. I do stuff over and over again, get paid to do it. It's a job. This is not.
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1) Change major AoE charge attacks from static numerical damage to percentage based dynamic attacks that ignore portions of resistance, (If not all resistance).
2) Rewrite the aggro algorythm so Tank role gets a much more significant boost to Aggro and Melee Offense gets a small reduction, Ranged Offense should have slightly more aggro than melee offense but still significantly less than the Tank role.
3) Drastically boost the damage on Melee single target attacks, possibly make them percentage based as well.
4) Create phases when the bosses become immune to all damage (Like Therakiel and as per Ravenforce's suggestion). To make them immune again, require a new task to be completed (IE in Therakiel's fight, you need to defeat his minions. For the Kraken, taking out the flyers would be interesting. And a quick suggestion for The Bronze King if it ever gets looked at, using he Mandragalore on him to make him vulnerable, of course fix that fight all together before doing that).
5) Create new forms of the boss where they use new attacks and have different attack patterns, (IE they attack a lot more often, summon minions etc), changing appearances and having some sort of cinematics to this would be helpful.
6) Secondary targets to non charge AoEs take significantly less damage than the primary targets.
Snake, actually my suggestion of dropping drifter salvages is not intended as a guaranteed chance. That will certainly affect the income and profit of CO. I was thinking more like a low 1-2% chance of getting 1 or 2 salvages. Perhaps if people get some salvages, but quite slowly, they may be tempted to top up the rest by buying keys to open boxes. Do you think that might work?
This sort of thing is used quite frequently in non gaming businesses (and perhaps in gaming as well). It is sometimes called, "priming the pump." The idea is that, if balanced properly, it encourages people who have received a portion of the purchase price of the product for free to spend some of their own money, that they might have otherwise not spent, to get the product.
"Hey the product is $10 and I already have $4 worth of gift certificates/coupons. It would be a shame to just waste that four bucks so maybe I'll spend six bucks of my own."
The basic concept has worked for countless companies for centuries.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Not gonna lie, that is something similar to what I had imagined they would be doing xD
But this is hilarious xD
Trail Turtle did provide a plausable cover for the Champs though...they are all in Lemuria.
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The trick is balancing the frequency and availability of such things so that they can neither be exploited, (thereby defeating their "priming purpose"), nor relied upon as a full-on replacement for the system they are intended to "prime".
IMO, another idea would be to grant additional bonuses for buying things like keys. For instance, "buy 10 keys and get 25 salvage free" or "buy 10 keys and get a single 1-use item which grants you 2X whatever you get from the next lockbox you open".
Another idea would be a purchase bonus that you get to pick 1 of any no-longer-available lockboxes to be placed into a character's inventory of your choice.
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Exactly so. In order to work properly this sort of system needs very careful balancing.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
As a person who has never and will never buy a gambling key, but still has a few salvage from ye olde Drifter mission:
NOPE.
I would collect the salvage with a passing interest and, if it's never enough to buy anything, it can join Snake Gulch Snake Bucks in my inventory's list of joke currency.
That's fine because everyone has the choice to decide what they spend on. There are people who do spend on keys and this may be a good hook.
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I so miss the monthly costume set... I really hope they make a comeback anytime soon, my stipend is piling really bad right now.
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Click up there if you want to find more about the costumes behind my heroines.
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http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=2964171#post2964171
The event got pushed back another week due to complications in being unable to work on fixes to this due to network problems.
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Wonder what they'll say next week to avoid saying "understaffed, we're givin it all she's got, captain, more vehicles!"
I wish they would just go ahead and be upfront with us.
"Sorry guys, look, the majority of us are working on NWN, so within the next 2 - 3 months, expect a lack of communication from the Developer team due to Never Winter Night's release. Within time, we will continue to eventually transfer dedicated teams back to Champions Online. Until then, please bare with us and understand."
If they said something like in the VERY beginning, then the community would have a completely different tone than it does now regarding all the negativity.
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I am not one to really defend Cryptic (anymore) but TT seemed pretty up front with us. Who's to say what he said wasn't the truth?