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Chain fighter. Is it doable?

alfinpogformalfinpogform Posts: 42 Arc User
edited February 2013 in Power Discussion
So I think the chain attacks in might are pretty cool. Is it feasible to make a build focusing around them? Either as a tank or DPS? I'm a little confused as to what kind of stats and powers would complement them well.
Post edited by alfinpogform on

Comments

  • kaiserin#0958 kaiserin
    kaiserin#0958
         Posts: 3,196 Cryptic Developer
    edited February 2013
    Oof, that's a toughie.

    First I would recommend Infernal Chains over Might.
    http://powerhouse.nullware.com/powerhouse.html?v=5&n=&d=123400000000000Q000Q103QB00Q503Q903QH00EI042C030000000000000000000000000mTO438W0ca1

    Above build for barebone chains dps. It's not great dps, but it'll get you through the game.
    Rest is up to you depending on your theme. Infernal Blast would be nice to keep targets poisoned.
  • kelbornxkelbornx Posts: 83 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    I was building a chains toon a little while ago, and this is what I settled on.

    R2 + Meteor Hammer on Lash does more damage than R3 even without charging. It's no Devour Essence, but with the +2% damage per stack of Poison on the target (up to +24%; 10 stacks of Deadly Poison, plus Noxious and Debilitating Poison from Defile) it's not bad.

    Crippling Coils and Rebirth are completely optional, I took them for theme. Vile Lariat w/ Kyoketsu Shoge is some nice burst damage. As said in the above post, Infernal Blast to keep your Poisons up is a good choice too.

    I took Fiery Form in my build for two reasons: My character is an homage to Ghost Rider, and it gives a higher damage bonus than Pestilence does. Pestilence has a DoT component, and reduces the targets resistance to Toxic Damage by 1% per stack of Poison. I haven't parsed the two to see which is "better", but I like the higher upfront damage bonus from Fiery Form. Pest might be better for prolonged fights I think.
    __________________________________________________
    My 40s: Munitions, Electricity, TK Blades, Gadgeteering DPS

    Other toons: Fire, Heavy Weapons Tank, Dual Blades, Fightning Claws, AoRP Support, Bestial Supernatural, Archery,
    TK Ranged, Infernal Tank, Ice DPS, Laser Sword, Heavy Weapons DPS
  • pugdaddypugdaddy Posts: 248 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Here's a tank chain build:

    PowerHouse http://powerhouse.nullware.com/

    Link to this build: http://powerhouse.nullware.com/powerhouse.html?v=5&n=&d=1234OMHGKTP0000Q000Q10HQ50HQB009B03QH00Q405CH04CG04C901IB04QI002C00QJ000FSk1lQp3VEw

    Name:

    Archetype: Freeform

    Super Stats:
    Level 6: Dexterity (Primary)
    Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
    Level 15: Intelligence (Secondary)

    Talents:
    Level 1: The Glacier
    Level 6: Healthy Mind
    Level 9: Coordinated
    Level 12: Acrobat
    Level 15: Impresario
    Level 18: Negotiator
    Level 21: Quick Recovery

    Powers:
    Level 1: Infernal Bolts
    Level 1: Lash (Rank 2, Crippling Challenge)
    Level 6: Vicious Cyclone (Rank 2, Challenging Strikes)
    Level 8: Supernatural Power
    Level 11: Invulnerability (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 14: Aspect of the Infernal
    Level 17: Vile Lariat (Rank 2, Kyoketsu Shoge)
    Level 20: Masterful Dodge (Unfettered Strikes)
    Level 23: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Resurgent Reiki)
    Level 26: Intensity (Rank 2)
    Level 29: Retaliation (Punitive Pummeling)
    Level 32: Defile
    Level 35: Fire Snake
    Level 38: Rebirth

    Travel Powers:
    Level 6:
    Level 35:

    Specializations:
    Dexterity: Combat Training (2/3)
    Dexterity: Gear Utilization (3/3)
    Dexterity: Evasion (2/2)
    Dexterity: Deadly Aim (3/3)
    Protector: Fortified Gear (3/3)
    Protector: Bulwark (2/2)
    Protector: Debilitating Challenge (2/2)
    Protector: Defensive Expertise (2/3)
    Protector: Resolute (1/3)
    Warden: Fortified Gear (1/3)
    Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
    Warden: Elusive (2/2)
    Warden: Reactive Strikes (2/2)
    Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
    Mastery: Dexterity Mastery (1/1)

    Invun +Dodge/Avoid provides some of the best defense. While Dex is primary for it's avoid specs, notice its stat-based specs are all for your secondary stats. This means it might be better to increase your secondaries with gear/talents more than increasing Dex would be. Dex provides good dodge/avoid, Con provides extra health which a tank might like. I don't know if Ego or Str increases chain damage so I put Int to reduce Power costs. I added Rec through Talents because that helps.

    Form of the Tempest might be a better Form than Aspect of the Infernal. I don't know if chains are ranged or melee. Tempest is better for melee, Aspect better for ranged. You need to apply Poison if you take Aspect but most of your chain attacks have a chance to apply Poison. Honestly, I think Tempest would be less work.

    Defile lowers target's resistance to Toxic damage. Toxic is considered Elemental damage and Fire Snake reduces enemy resist to Elemental damage.

    BCR (Bountiful Chi Resurgence) is your self-heal, it works wonderfully with Dodge mechanics and has very short recast time.
    Rebirth is a self-rez.

    I thought Retaliation would be a great Block for you since it increases the damage of your next attack.
    For generating Threat, I added Crippling Challenge to Lash and Challenging Strikes to Vicious Cyclone. The Protector spec Bulwark also helps you generate Threat and keep enemy attention on you instead of teammates.
  • alfinpogformalfinpogform Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Thanks for the ideas, guys. Maybe I'll just have to make the chains window dressing powers. Like just having the knock-tos to bring stuff in and then using some other powers. I'll play around with it a bit.
  • pugdaddypugdaddy Posts: 248 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    alfinpogform wrote: »
    Thanks for the ideas, guys. Maybe I'll just have to make the chains window dressing powers. Like just having the knock-tos to bring stuff in and then using some other powers. I'll play around with it a bit.

    In that case, use Devour Essence from Infernal. Nothings tougher than a self-healing tank.
  • alfinpogformalfinpogform Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    The infernal stuff doesn't really fit the theme I'm going for. Especially not eating people's souls. XD
  • lokikinlokikin Posts: 624 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    alfinpogform wrote: »
    The infernal stuff doesn't really fit the theme I'm going for. Especially not eating people's souls. XD

    Depends on how you spin it, concept wise...

    My Ice main uses Devour Essence; I justify it by saying he can absorb the body heat of others...

    :smile:
    _._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._

    M-O-O-N, that spells @Rhyatt

    Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.

    Laws yes!
  • pugdaddypugdaddy Posts: 248 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    After doing some testing, I believe chains (at least infernal ones) are ranged. Using Viscious Cyclone builds stacks of Concentration but not Focus. Infernal chains also didn't activate Parry w/Elusive Monk or Laser Knight from Energy Shield. The damage doesn't seem very good either.
  • kelbornxkelbornx Posts: 83 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Yes, they are Ranged. Anything besides Lunges with >15' range is a Ranged power. Some Ranged powers like Shuriken Throw gain bonus damage from STR instead of EGO, but they're still tagged as Ranged.

    And no, the damage isn't very good. They're in the bottom quarter of DPS for all abilities. The Might ones have even less damage potential since they can't apply Deadly Poison.

    The highest DPS you can get out of the chains is Lash R2 + Meteor Hammer tap spam on a target with 10 stacks of Deadly Poison and both Noxious and Debilitating Poison from Defile. Base dps of this setup: 485.5. Without the +24% damage from 12 stacks of Poison, 391.5 dps. This puts it slightly above Infernal Blast R3 tap spam... and it can't even hold a candle to Devour Essence's 670 base dps at R3.

    Bottom line is that the chain abilities are great flavor for a concept, but not that great if they're going to be your core abilities.
    __________________________________________________
    My 40s: Munitions, Electricity, TK Blades, Gadgeteering DPS

    Other toons: Fire, Heavy Weapons Tank, Dual Blades, Fightning Claws, AoRP Support, Bestial Supernatural, Archery,
    TK Ranged, Infernal Tank, Ice DPS, Laser Sword, Heavy Weapons DPS
  • xcaligaxxcaligax Posts: 1,096 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    The chain moves suck. I tried. And the only move IMO that is actually "decent", sorta, is Vicious Cyclone, and that's for tanking. As for damage, all the chain moves need their damage adjusted and raised. They all blow.
    Caliga's PRIMUS Database! --XXX--The Caliga Build: Threatening Haymakers! --XXX-- Caliga and Conquer fanart!

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  • alfinpogformalfinpogform Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Okay. So I'm going to try and make the infernal powers fit into the theme. How does this look as a baseline?

    PowerHouse (Link to this build)

    Name:

    Archetype: Freeform

    Super Stats:
    Level 6:
    Level 10:
    Level 15:

    Talents:
    Level 1:
    Level 6:
    Level 9:
    Level 12:
    Level 15:
    Level 18:
    Level 21:

    Powers:
    Level 1: Bestial Fury
    Level 1: Shred
    Level 6: Supernatural Power
    Level 8: Regeneration
    Level 11: Pounce
    Level 14: Massacre
    Level 17: Enrage
    Level 20: Vicious Cyclone
    Level 23: Vile Lariat
    Level 26:
    Level 29:
    Level 32:
    Level 35:
    Level 38:

    Travel Powers:
    Level 6:
    Level 35:

    Specializations:
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