test content
  • Games
  • Social
  • Arc News
  • Support
  • Zen
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Forums > Home› Power Discussion

Is there any reason to take Heavy Weapons over Might???

xcaligaxxcaligax Posts: 1,096 Arc User
edited January 2013 in Power Discussion
Title says it all. From what I've seen, Might just gives more single target and aoe damage than HW. Aside from the looks, is there a reasonable gameplay reason one would take HW over might, with the exception of concept?
Caliga's PRIMUS Database! --XXX--The Caliga Build: Threatening Haymakers! --XXX-- Caliga and Conquer fanart!

conquerbanner_copy.png


Post edited by xcaligax on

Comments

  • kamokamikamokami Posts: 1,634 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Annihilate's single target DPS is just as good as Haymaker and Skewer's 1 point advantage that boosts base tap damage by 15% on top of rank 3 makes it one of the most damaging AoEs in the game.

    Vixy uses Annihilate on her min/maxed main. It's perfectly fine.
    > > > > THERAKIELS TEMPLE GUIDE < < < < - beat the temple! (ﾉ･ｪ･)ﾉ

    PARSER USAGE GUIDE: click here for an easy how-to ٩(๑･ิᴗ･ิ)۶٩(･ิᴗ･ิ๑)۶

    Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
  • mrf0rz1mrf0rz1 Posts: 556 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Skewer is very underrated, and overall, the Heavy Weapons set has more damage per second, and faster CC moves (at the price of not locking targets hard enough) than Might. Arc of ruin's advantage makes for a weaker, but AoE version of Demolish.

    I also get to hear that Cleave hits for crazy damage with a combo based setup, but that could just be some bragging attempt.

  • xcaligaxxcaligax Posts: 1,096 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    kamokami wrote: »
    Annihilate's single target DPS is just as good as Haymaker and Skewer's 1 point advantage that boosts base tap damage by 15% on top of rank 3 makes it one of the most damaging AoEs in the game.

    Vixy uses Annihilate on her min/maxed main. It's perfectly fine.

    I still feel like Haymaker is just doing more overall damage than Annihilate. I know that Might, and correct me if I'm wrong, was given some "sorta" buffs, in regards to knock resist targets? Was this also applied to Heavy weapons? I know Haymaker has a longer charge also, but I just dont feel that Haymaker, which is a T3 power, does the same damage than Annihilate, which is T2. I did testing, and maybe I just dont know how to test correctly, but everytime, the Haymaker damage just dwarfed the Annihilate.
    Caliga's PRIMUS Database! --XXX--The Caliga Build: Threatening Haymakers! --XXX-- Caliga and Conquer fanart!

    conquerbanner_copy.png


  • flyingfinnflyingfinn Posts: 8,408 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    But the #1 point is, you are swinging HUGE swords/axes/hammers!
    CHAMPIONS ONLINE:Join Date: Apr 2008
    And playing by myself since Aug 2009
    Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
    tumblr_n7qtltG3Dv1rv1ckao1_500.gif
    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • kamokamikamokami Posts: 1,634 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    xcaligax wrote: »
    I still feel like Haymaker is just doing more overall damage than Annihilate. I know that Might, and correct me if I'm wrong, was given some "sorta" buffs, in regards to knock resist targets? Was this also applied to Heavy weapons? I know Haymaker has a longer charge also, but I just dont feel that Haymaker, which is a T3 power, does the same damage than Annihilate, which is T2. I did testing, and maybe I just dont know how to test correctly, but everytime, the Haymaker damage just dwarfed the Annihilate.

    HW does get the knock immune bonus as well. You can test this by hitting boxes, which are immune to knocks.

    Haymaker's damage may seem higher because it has a longer charge time and higher charge damage to compensate. But the DPS itself is actually not higher.

    The specifics of your test matter a lot. Did you test in the PH? It may be hard to do that with powers that kb on tap. Also did you force taps using a keybind - if not then many of your "taps" will end up as partial charges - or did you test with full charges.

    For answering questions like this, Vixy's preferred testing dummy is Kigatilik on PTS. Beat him up for two to three mins and then check your combat log for DPS.

    It may be easier to look at the DPS chart here:
    http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=203941

    Though note that the chart is purely based on tooltips and does not account for Advantages or specific bonuses like that of kb immunity, which can make all the difference in choosing a power with optimal performance.
    > > > > THERAKIELS TEMPLE GUIDE < < < < - beat the temple! (ﾉ･ｪ･)ﾉ

    PARSER USAGE GUIDE: click here for an easy how-to ٩(๑･ิᴗ･ิ)۶٩(･ิᴗ･ิ๑)۶

    Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
  • monsterdaddymonsterdaddy Posts: 795 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Well there is one nice advantage of using HW for tanks - you can set up Vindicator spec for AoE crit spec only and use just Cleave, Skewer and Unleashed Rage. Cleave is decent with Warden Mastery (still inferior to Skewer w/Adv on charge for DPS) and it gives a nice looking variety of animations. Plus for 1 adv pt you can add on CS to Cleave.
  • helbjornhelbjorn Posts: 678 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Another nice combo if you prefer hammers is a charged Arc of Ruin with adv. (automatic disorient with-10% all physical dmg debuff) followed by tap spammed Skullcrushers with adv. (+15% damage to disoriented targets). In my tests damage was comparable to Skewer with adv. and I prefer the animation to Skewer's. Plus it does full damage to all targets, not partial like Skewer.

    I think one of the major advantages of HW over Might is the ability to build quite viable DPS builds without all the knock inherent in the Might set.
  • xcaligaxxcaligax Posts: 1,096 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    kamokami wrote: »
    HW does get the knock immune bonus as well. You can test this by hitting boxes, which are immune to knocks.

    Haymaker's damage may seem higher because it has a longer charge time and higher charge damage to compensate. But the DPS itself is actually not higher.

    The specifics of your test matter a lot. Did you test in the PH? It may be hard to do that with powers that kb on tap. Also did you force taps using a keybind - if not then many of your "taps" will end up as partial charges - or did you test with full charges.

    For answering questions like this, Vixy's preferred testing dummy is Kigatilik on PTS. Beat him up for two to three mins and then check your combat log for DPS.

    It may be easier to look at the DPS chart here:
    http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=203941

    Though note that the chart is purely based on tooltips and does not account for Advantages or specific bonuses like that of kb immunity, which can make all the difference in choosing a power with optimal performance.


    So I followed your advice, and decided to conduct a test on Kigatillik on the PTS.

    The following test is of Annihilate vs Haymaker. Time was 2 minutes each. AOPM, 411 STR, 38% crit, 87% crit severity. Necruillitic Elixir was my only form of healing during those 2 times, so no bcr to lower damage values, and I have laser knight to lower my attack.

    I would appreciate if others help me calculate these values. I'm doing them myself also, but if anyone else is faster with math, it would be appreciated. I'm looking for overall damage, and DPS.

    Haymaker Test, 2 Minutes

    1. Your Haymaker deals 5641 (5923) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    2. Your Haymaker deals 5647 (5929) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    3. Your Haymaker deals 9770 (10258) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    4. Your Haymaker deals 5489 (5763) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    5. Your Haymaker deals 10357 (10875) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    6. Your Haymaker deals 9167 (9626) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    7. Your Haymaker deals 4931 (5178) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    8. Your Haymaker deals 4967 (5215) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    9. Your Haymaker deals 9921 (10417) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    10. Your Haymaker deals 9729 (10216) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    11. Your Haymaker deals 5150 (5408) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    12. Your Haymaker deals 5850 (6143) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    13. Your Haymaker deals 9338 (9805) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    14. Your Haymaker deals 9360 (9828) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    15. Your Haymaker deals 10028 (10529) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    16. Your Haymaker deals 4966 (5215) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    17. Your Haymaker deals 11096 (11651) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    18. Your Haymaker deals 10282 (10797) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    19. Your Haymaker deals 5646 (5928) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    20. Your Haymaker deals 10031 (10532) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    21. Your Haymaker deals 5054 (5306) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    22. Your Haymaker deals 5400 (5670) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    23. Your Haymaker deals 9567 (10045) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    24. Your Haymaker deals 5484 (5758) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    25. Your Haymaker deals 5452 (5724) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    26. Your Haymaker deals 5028 (5280) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    27. Your Haymaker deals 5126 (5382) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    28. Your Haymaker deals 10414 (10934) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    29. Your Haymaker deals 5122 (5378) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    30. Your Haymaker deals 10293 (10807) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    31. Your Haymaker deals 11086 (11640) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    32. Your Haymaker deals 10094 (10598) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    33. Your Haymaker deals 9944 (10442) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    34. Your Haymaker deals 5798 (6088) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    35. Your Haymaker deals 10107 (10613) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.

    Haymaker Total Damage: 246799
    Haymaker DPS: 2065.658


    Annihilate Test, 2 Minutes

    1. Your Annihilate deals 3409 (3580) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    2. Your Annihilate deals 6474 (6797) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    3. Your Annihilate deals 6478 (6802) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    4. Your Annihilate deals 3575 (3753) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    5. Your Annihilate deals 6769 (7108) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    6. Your Annihilate deals 3248 (3411) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    7. Your Annihilate deals 6734 (7071) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    8. Your Annihilate deals 3559 (3736) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    9. Your Annihilate deals 6117 (6423) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    10. Your Annihilate deals 6789 (7128) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    11. Your Annihilate deals 6100 (6405) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    12. Your Annihilate deals 3630 (3811) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    13. Your Annihilate deals 6556 (6884) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    14. Your Annihilate deals 6942 (7289) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    15. Your Annihilate deals 3743 (3930) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    16. Your Annihilate deals 3361 (3529) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    17. Your Annihilate deals 3296 (3461) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    18. Your Annihilate deals 6678 (7012) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    19. Your Annihilate deals 3615 (3795) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    20. Your Annihilate deals 6556 (6884) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    21. Your Annihilate deals 3753 (3941) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    22. Your Annihilate deals 3645 (3827) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    23. Your Annihilate deals 6972 (7320) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    24. Your Annihilate deals 3333 (3499) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    25. Your Annihilate deals 6447 (6769) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    26. Your Annihilate deals 3574 (3753) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    27. Your Annihilate deals 3522 (3698) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    28. Your Annihilate deals 3644 (3826) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    29. Your Annihilate deals 3246 (3409) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    30. Your Annihilate deals 3706 (3892) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    31. Your Annihilate deals 3394 (3564) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    32. Your Annihilate deals 3243 (3405) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    33. Your Annihilate deals 3664 (3847) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    34. Your Annihilate deals 3659 (3842) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    35. Your Annihilate deals 3724 (3911) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    36. Your Annihilate deals 3756 (3944) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    37. Your Annihilate deals 3376 (3545) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    38. Your Annihilate deals 3570 (3749) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    39. Your Annihilate deals 3531 (3707) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    40. Your Annihilate deals 3250 (3412) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    41. Your Annihilate deals 3397 (3567) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    42. Your Annihilate deals 6564 (6892) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    43. Your Annihilate deals 3350 (3517) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    44. Your Annihilate deals 3590 (3770) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    45. Your Annihilate deals 3339 (3506) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    46. Your Annihilate deals 3608 (3788) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    47. Your Annihilate deals 3601 (3781) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    48. Your Annihilate deals 3642 (3824) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    49. Your Annihilate deals 6391 (6710) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    50. Your Annihilate deals 6099 (6404) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    51. Your Annihilate deals 6653 (6986) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    52. Your Annihilate deals 6253 (6566) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    53. Your Annihilate deals 6920 (7266) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.

    Annihilate Total Damage: 233702
    Annihilate DPS: 1947.516
    Caliga's PRIMUS Database! --XXX--The Caliga Build: Threatening Haymakers! --XXX-- Caliga and Conquer fanart!

    conquerbanner_copy.png


  • vitalityprimevitalityprime Posts: 478 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    I'm confused.

    Shouldn't a Tier 3 attack be better than a Tier 2 attack?
    _________
    VARIANT



    "Nearly all men can withstand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."

    -Abraham Lincoln-
  • helbjornhelbjorn Posts: 678 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Caliga, you should have normalized that test for crits. Your actual crit rate for the Haymaker run was 51% compared to only 35% for your Annihilate run, meaning your sample sizes were too small.
  • xcaligaxxcaligax Posts: 1,096 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    helbjorn wrote: »
    Caliga, you should have normalized that test for crits. Your actual crit rate for the Haymaker run was 51% compared to only 35% for your Annihilate run, meaning your sample sizes were too small.

    I'll post another test when I can.
    Caliga's PRIMUS Database! --XXX--The Caliga Build: Threatening Haymakers! --XXX-- Caliga and Conquer fanart!

    conquerbanner_copy.png


  • rugrothrumborrugrothrumbor Posts: 534 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    xcaligax wrote: »
    Title says it all. From what I've seen, Might just gives more single target and aoe damage than HW. Aside from the looks, is there a reasonable gameplay reason one would take HW over might, with the exception of concept?

    Better AoE damage than Heavy Weapons? Heavy Weapons has more options and better damage on the AoE department. Might just got Roomsweeper and Havoc Stomp.
    ===============================
    Grappling/Wrestling Power Set Suggestion 2012-2013
    How a Wrestling Power Set Can Work
  • xcaligaxxcaligax Posts: 1,096 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    rugrothrumbor wrote: »
    Better AoE damage than Heavy Weapons? Heavy Weapons has more options and better damage on the AoE department. Might just got Roomsweeper and Havoc Stomp.

    I'm trying to factor in the knock resist damage also. I'll do more testing with Roomsweeper/Havok Stomp and their HW AoE counterparts.
    Caliga's PRIMUS Database! --XXX--The Caliga Build: Threatening Haymakers! --XXX-- Caliga and Conquer fanart!

    conquerbanner_copy.png


  • rugrothrumborrugrothrumbor Posts: 534 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    With those numbers for a tier 2 single target attack being comparable to a tier 3 single target attack it means Annihilate is just that good.
    ===============================
    Grappling/Wrestling Power Set Suggestion 2012-2013
    How a Wrestling Power Set Can Work
  • itsbrou#5396 itsbrou
    itsbrou#5396
         Posts: 1,779 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Haymaker versus Earthsplitter gogogo.

    Oh, wait-

    Your tier 3s are AOEs.
    Brou in Cryptic games.
  • xcaligaxxcaligax Posts: 1,096 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Ok, so here is the 2nd test of Annihilate Vs Haymaker.

    Hybrid mode, no crits, 330 STR, Defiance. 2 minutes

    Haymaker

    Your Haymaker deals 4158 (4989) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Haymaker deals 4551 (5461) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Haymaker deals 4229 (5075) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Haymaker deals 3947 (4737) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Haymaker deals 4655 (5587) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Haymaker deals 4344 (5213) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Haymaker deals 4736 (5683) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Haymaker deals 4069 (4883) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Haymaker deals 4380 (5256) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Haymaker deals 3999 (4798) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Haymaker deals 4161 (4993) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Haymaker deals 4742 (5691) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Haymaker deals 4628 (5554) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Haymaker deals 3973 (4767) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Haymaker deals 3913 (4696) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Haymaker deals 3996 (4795) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Haymaker deals 4117 (4940) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Haymaker deals 4694 (5632) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Haymaker deals 4364 (5237) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Haymaker deals 4167 (5000) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Haymaker deals 4440 (5328) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Haymaker deals 3912 (4695) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Haymaker deals 4352 (5222) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Haymaker deals 4547 (5456) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Haymaker deals 4691 (5629) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Haymaker deals 4526 (5432) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Haymaker deals 4458 (5350) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Haymaker deals 4497 (5396) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Haymaker deals 4527 (5433) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Haymaker deals 4111 (4933) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Haymaker deals 4091 (4909) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Haymaker deals 4695 (5634) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Haymaker deals 4592 (5511) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Haymaker deals 4715 (5657) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Haymaker deals 4114 (4937) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.

    Haymaker Total Damage: 152191
    Haymaker DPS: 1268.259



    Annihilate

    Your Annihilate deals 2906 (3487) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 2714 (3257) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 2915 (3498) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 2776 (3331) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 2761 (3314) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 2887 (3464) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 2922 (3506) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 2653 (3184) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 2952 (3543) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 2862 (3434) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 2978 (3574) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 3048 (3657) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 2672 (3206) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 2783 (3340) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 2915 (3498) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 2763 (3316) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 2904 (3484) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 2648 (3177) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 2811 (3373) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 2651 (3181) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 2773 (3328) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 2902 (3482) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 2693 (3232) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 2651 (3181) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 2877 (3452) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 2781 (3337) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 2992 (3590) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 2826 (3391) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 2812 (3374) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 2981 (3578) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 3045 (3654) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 2641 (3169) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 2695 (3234) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 2743 (3292) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 3033 (3639) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 2732 (3279) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 2679 (3214) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 2928 (3513) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 3009 (3610) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 2885 (3461) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 2632 (3158) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 2861 (3433) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 2923 (3508) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 2899 (3478) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 2760 (3312) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 2817 (3380) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 2738 (3285) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 2695 (3234) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 2886 (3463) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 2884 (3461) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 2696 (3235) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 2968 (3562) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 2974 (3568) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.
    Your Annihilate deals 2650 (3180) Crushing Damage to Kigatilik.

    Annihilate Total Damage: 140920
    Annihilate DPS: 1174.333333333333

    So there is that.
    Caliga's PRIMUS Database! --XXX--The Caliga Build: Threatening Haymakers! --XXX-- Caliga and Conquer fanart!

    conquerbanner_copy.png


  • rugrothrumborrugrothrumbor Posts: 534 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    That's it? By this Haymaker needs to do more damage being a tier 3 single target power.
    ===============================
    Grappling/Wrestling Power Set Suggestion 2012-2013
    How a Wrestling Power Set Can Work
  • selpheaselphea Posts: 1,229 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Out of curiosity, I made a spreadsheet for those numbers myself, to see if my DPS chart was accurate. I seem to have gotten different numbers (see spreadsheet), but while the DPS that I got was almost the same (1267 vs 1271), the average damage per hit doesn't seem proportional to DPS.

    Your average Annihilate was 2825.59, while your average Haymaker was 4345.46. Instead of Annihilate being an expected 80% of Haymaker DPS (2 seconds / 2.5 seconds), it's closer to 65%, so I was puzzled about how they ended up so close DPS-wise when it looked like Annihilate would fall short.

    Based on your number of 35 Haymakers in both tests, it seems that your average Haymaker took 3.42 seconds instead of the theoretical 2.5 seconds, whereas based on your 53-54 Annihilates in 2 minutes (I took the average of 53.5) your average Annihilate took 2.24 seconds, which is much closer to the theoretical 2 seconds.

    That makes me wonder if Haymaker is slower but hits harder than the the tooltip claims. Pretty unusual findings :o
  • somebobsomebob Posts: 982 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    vitalityprime wrote: »
    I'm confused.

    Shouldn't a Tier 3 attack be better than a Tier 2 attack?

    No. CO doesn't work that way. Never has.
    Owner and Lead Moderator for the Primus Database. Post your Hero today!
    Razira's Primus Database Page
    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • smoochansmoochan Posts: 2,567 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    rugrothrumbor wrote: »
    With those numbers for a tier 2 single target attack being comparable to a tier 3 single target attack it means Annihilate is just that good.

    Yeah but tiers don't really mean anything... just another half-done system really.
    Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
  • kamokamikamokami Posts: 1,634 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    xcaligax wrote: »
    Haymaker Total Damage: 152191
    Haymaker DPS: 1268.259

    Annihilate Total Damage: 140920
    Annihilate DPS: 1174.333333333333

    So there is that.

    Nicely done. Though it should be noted that ~8% difference in Deeps is pretty close.

    Especially once you consider that Annihilate costs 15% less than Haymaker...meaning if you had a build with less energy efficiency but more damage then the gap of 8% would be even smaller.
    selphea wrote: »
    That makes me wonder if Haymaker is slower but hits harder than the the tooltip claims. Pretty unusual findings :o

    Yeah this is interesting. Vixy's noticed that the knock immune bonus is not consistent across all powers. The discrepancy might be there. It may not even be consistent across different charge times though this is unlikely.
    > > > > THERAKIELS TEMPLE GUIDE < < < < - beat the temple! (ﾉ･ｪ･)ﾉ

    PARSER USAGE GUIDE: click here for an easy how-to ٩(๑･ิᴗ･ิ)۶٩(･ิᴗ･ิ๑)۶

    Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
  • selpheaselphea Posts: 1,229 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    kamokami wrote: »
    Nicely done. Though it should be noted that ~8% difference in Deeps is pretty close.

    It's actually a 0.3% difference in favor of Annihilate when I ran it through Calc. It looks like 4 Annihilates got omitted from the total and 100 was added to the total for Haymaker (see the spreadsheet in my previous post)
  • kamokamikamokami Posts: 1,634 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    selphea wrote: »
    It looks like 4 Annihilates got omitted from the total and 100 was added to the total for Haymaker (see the spreadsheet in my previous post)

    How did you determine that?
    > > > > THERAKIELS TEMPLE GUIDE < < < < - beat the temple! (ﾉ･ｪ･)ﾉ

    PARSER USAGE GUIDE: click here for an easy how-to ٩(๑･ิᴗ･ิ)۶٩(･ิᴗ･ิ๑)۶

    Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
  • selpheaselphea Posts: 1,229 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    kamokami wrote: »
    How did you determine that?

    I took the logged damage in post #17, the second set of tests on Kigatilik, pasted in Calc, extracted the damage numbers, the ones outside the brackets, using a formula and then did a Sum() operation on them. The spreadsheet with all formulae intact for reference is located here: Click Here

    Anyway, numbers originally posted:
    Haymaker Total Damage: 152191

    I got 152,091 on my sheet.

    Dividing by 120 seconds, that's a DPS of 1267.

    And
    Annihilate Total Damage: 140920

    I got 152,852 on my sheet, a difference of 11,932, which is roughly 4 times the average Annihilate damage of 2825.

    Dividing by 120 seconds, that's a DPS of 1271.
  • pugdaddypugdaddy Posts: 248 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Doesn't seem to be that great of a difference.

    Anyways, I use No Quarter from Arc of Ruin to great effect with Chest Beam and U-238 Rounds from Mini-Gun on my Green Knight toon. Even when he can't grab Aggro and tank, he contributes with nice debuffs.

    Skewer is pretty beastly, I would use it more if I liked melee Powers.
  • kaiserin#0958 kaiserin
    kaiserin#0958
         Posts: 3,223 Cryptic Developer
    edited January 2013
    If folks could post Haymaker's numbers against non-kb immune targets, and then numbers on the same target but kb immune, that would be spiffy. I ran a few tests the other night and found Haymaker to be getting a slightly higher kb bonus then it should be. However it could just be that I didn't get enough numbers for an accurate reading.
  • honestresearcherhonestresearcher Posts: 657 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    In my personal experience, i find much more dps out of Heavy Weapons

    Skewer R3 + Advantage for 25% more base damage on Full charges is too good to pass up.
    Only complaint: You cant move with skewer, so its not a good PvP choice
    Benefits: Mobs are dumbs###s so immobility isnt a problem for PvE.

    Its just cheaper on energy too, skewer is dirt cheap to use.

    That and it hits multiple enemies if youre good at walking a couple of steps like a good strategic player.

    Haymaker...only 1...

    I find Demolish much more powerful than haymaker, by far...again tho its way more expensive.
  • tiresias99tiresias99 Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    There are a few reasons:

    Cleave is one of the best combo attacks in the game, hitting multiple targets while building up your buffs.

    Almost everything is an AoE attack or can be talented into being an AoE attacking, making holding threat or clearing trash packs trivial.

    The damage difference really is very negligible. Small differences in tank-and-spank fights doesn't mean much in the long run.

    The most important: it is a different character concept, which is very important to many players.
    @Tiresias
    Tiresias: Celestial/Darkness (Support)
    Ravish: Bestial/Might/Unarmed (Tank)
  • finalslapsfinalslaps Posts: 198 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Annihilate also charges up faster meaning more opportunities to land crits as well.

    The better question is why would anyone go Might over Heavy Weapons? Heavy Weapons is a lot more polished. Might still has a lot of random junk from a long time ago and haven't been updated since.
  • helbjornhelbjorn Posts: 678 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    finalslaps wrote: »
    The better question is why would anyone go Might over Heavy Weapons?

    Because to some there's nothing more viscerally satisfying than crushing your enemies with your bare hands and sending them flying across the map with a Roomsweeper.

    Then of course, there's the lamentation of the women and all that.
Sign In or Register to comment.