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Diehard CO player took a detour...
bioshrike
Posts: 5,491 Arc User
So, on the advice of a friend, I picked up TSW and started playing it. Now that I've been playing it for a little while, I have a different insight into what CO does right, and what it does wrong:
1. Travel - the travel powers are one of CO's best feature. In TSW, you can only run, and you have to pay a fairly large amount of in-game currency for a rather small run speed increase, (like 15% per rank). You also cannot activate sprint in combat, and trying to flee a fight is very difficult. Admittedly, having to walk/run everywhere does make the world seem larger, and makes having to navigate terrain and avoid aggro a skill one needs to learn.
2. Gear - CO basically has level-gated gear. You must meet or exceed a piece of gear's level requirement in order to equip it. TSW has a separate skill for each category of gear, and that skill must be ranked up to equip better gear. This is a double-edged sword as those same skill points that must be spent to wear better gear are also used for your primary attacks/abilities, but focusing on your gear skill also provides defensive benefits, (like more hp, better defenses, etc).
3. Story - This is where CO falls flat - the voice acting, character animations, and over ambiance in TSW are excellent. You feel involved in the world and compelled to keep playing. CO has a more mechanical feel about it, what voice acting we have tends to be over the top to the point of being silly. I realize that CO is a different genre than TSW, but except for a few instances, (like Dr. Destroyer in Resistance), it's juts too campy. You also find things in TSW missions that reference things you did earlier in a more meaningful way.
4. Powers - Hands down, CO's freeform system is one of the best I've had the pleasure to use. TSW has a somewhat freeform system, (in that you can pick and choose any skill that you've unlocked). The key difference is that you must buy all skills/abilities that come before one you might want in the list; so if I want skill #4 in assault rifle, I must first buy skills 1-3. This means that some skills, which you may deem as less useful, must be bought even if you won't ever use them.
5. Passives - Technically this is related to powers above, but I thought it deserved it's own category. In CO, you basically pick 1 passive and build around it. TSW has an interesting system in this regard - you have 7 active power slots and 7 passive ones. The passives, much like in CO, really define how your character plays. For instance, a common passive people use in TSW is one that gives you a minor HoT when you hit with an attack. I also use one that boosts my assault rifle attacks, and so on. Because the power sets in TSW include active and passive powers in their lists, you unlock these as you progress down them, and finding which passives complement your active abilities best is an art unto itself. I still prefer CO's system simply because I don't feel like I'm wasting points on skills I may never use.
6. Rewards - Since On Alert came out, getting a lot of XP quickly has become pretty easy. I also prefer to use the 11K Questionite sets so I don't have to worry about keeping my gear up to date. One of the best things TSW implemented was a tiered mission system. Basically, when you accept a mission, it'll indicate that you are now on tier 1/7 of said mission. As you complete each portion of the mission, you are rewarded and your progress is retained. This means that you get rewarded all the while you are carrying out your mission, and there isn't this lull until you actually complete and turn it in. All missions are replayable with a 16 hour timer, meaning that you can repeat any mission 16 hours later, (so if you liked a particular mission or arc you can keep redoing it).
7. Progression - CO is fairly standard in this regard - it takes more and more XP to level up, but enemies and missions give more XP the higher level they are. TSW basically dispenses with this, and simply provides you with skill and ability points every fixed number of XP. Thus, redoing old missions is pretty much just as rewarding on subsequent playthroughs. One note about this, though, is that the mission seems to take into account your gear and skill/ability level, and adjusts the rewards based on these, (so someone playing a mission meant for someone with a 3 in their attack skill may be ranked 'Normal' and that same person coming back to replay it with a 5 in their skill may see it now categorized as 'Easy', thus not earning as many rewards for completing it).
8. X-Factors - CO has a more robust tailor and costumes are generally unlocked account wide. TSW has fewer options, costume sets are character-bound, and buying clothes in-game can get very expensive. TSW has these "research & investigation missions" which require you to use the in-game browser to solve riddles, find patterns, or solve puzzles. I stink at these, and generally skip them. In theory they seem like a nice alternative, and I'm sure some people excel at them. The biggest problem I have is how the interface tends to get in the way of these. For instance, I find a magic circle on the ground and need to activate the runes in a certain order. I can walk to another part of the room and read a book with the pattern in it, but I cannot have the book open and on the screen to refer to. I can train up any of my abilities anywhere I want in TSW, but must drop what I'm doing and return to my faction's HQ in order to learn how to run faster. I can custom my inventory in TSW to my own liking, but for some reason I cannot move the enemy target window, (though they do allow 3rd-party UI mods and there' s a good selection of them).
Overall, both are excellent games and I will continue to play both.
Thanks for reading!
1. Travel - the travel powers are one of CO's best feature. In TSW, you can only run, and you have to pay a fairly large amount of in-game currency for a rather small run speed increase, (like 15% per rank). You also cannot activate sprint in combat, and trying to flee a fight is very difficult. Admittedly, having to walk/run everywhere does make the world seem larger, and makes having to navigate terrain and avoid aggro a skill one needs to learn.
2. Gear - CO basically has level-gated gear. You must meet or exceed a piece of gear's level requirement in order to equip it. TSW has a separate skill for each category of gear, and that skill must be ranked up to equip better gear. This is a double-edged sword as those same skill points that must be spent to wear better gear are also used for your primary attacks/abilities, but focusing on your gear skill also provides defensive benefits, (like more hp, better defenses, etc).
3. Story - This is where CO falls flat - the voice acting, character animations, and over ambiance in TSW are excellent. You feel involved in the world and compelled to keep playing. CO has a more mechanical feel about it, what voice acting we have tends to be over the top to the point of being silly. I realize that CO is a different genre than TSW, but except for a few instances, (like Dr. Destroyer in Resistance), it's juts too campy. You also find things in TSW missions that reference things you did earlier in a more meaningful way.
4. Powers - Hands down, CO's freeform system is one of the best I've had the pleasure to use. TSW has a somewhat freeform system, (in that you can pick and choose any skill that you've unlocked). The key difference is that you must buy all skills/abilities that come before one you might want in the list; so if I want skill #4 in assault rifle, I must first buy skills 1-3. This means that some skills, which you may deem as less useful, must be bought even if you won't ever use them.
5. Passives - Technically this is related to powers above, but I thought it deserved it's own category. In CO, you basically pick 1 passive and build around it. TSW has an interesting system in this regard - you have 7 active power slots and 7 passive ones. The passives, much like in CO, really define how your character plays. For instance, a common passive people use in TSW is one that gives you a minor HoT when you hit with an attack. I also use one that boosts my assault rifle attacks, and so on. Because the power sets in TSW include active and passive powers in their lists, you unlock these as you progress down them, and finding which passives complement your active abilities best is an art unto itself. I still prefer CO's system simply because I don't feel like I'm wasting points on skills I may never use.
6. Rewards - Since On Alert came out, getting a lot of XP quickly has become pretty easy. I also prefer to use the 11K Questionite sets so I don't have to worry about keeping my gear up to date. One of the best things TSW implemented was a tiered mission system. Basically, when you accept a mission, it'll indicate that you are now on tier 1/7 of said mission. As you complete each portion of the mission, you are rewarded and your progress is retained. This means that you get rewarded all the while you are carrying out your mission, and there isn't this lull until you actually complete and turn it in. All missions are replayable with a 16 hour timer, meaning that you can repeat any mission 16 hours later, (so if you liked a particular mission or arc you can keep redoing it).
7. Progression - CO is fairly standard in this regard - it takes more and more XP to level up, but enemies and missions give more XP the higher level they are. TSW basically dispenses with this, and simply provides you with skill and ability points every fixed number of XP. Thus, redoing old missions is pretty much just as rewarding on subsequent playthroughs. One note about this, though, is that the mission seems to take into account your gear and skill/ability level, and adjusts the rewards based on these, (so someone playing a mission meant for someone with a 3 in their attack skill may be ranked 'Normal' and that same person coming back to replay it with a 5 in their skill may see it now categorized as 'Easy', thus not earning as many rewards for completing it).
8. X-Factors - CO has a more robust tailor and costumes are generally unlocked account wide. TSW has fewer options, costume sets are character-bound, and buying clothes in-game can get very expensive. TSW has these "research & investigation missions" which require you to use the in-game browser to solve riddles, find patterns, or solve puzzles. I stink at these, and generally skip them. In theory they seem like a nice alternative, and I'm sure some people excel at them. The biggest problem I have is how the interface tends to get in the way of these. For instance, I find a magic circle on the ground and need to activate the runes in a certain order. I can walk to another part of the room and read a book with the pattern in it, but I cannot have the book open and on the screen to refer to. I can train up any of my abilities anywhere I want in TSW, but must drop what I'm doing and return to my faction's HQ in order to learn how to run faster. I can custom my inventory in TSW to my own liking, but for some reason I cannot move the enemy target window, (though they do allow 3rd-party UI mods and there' s a good selection of them).
Overall, both are excellent games and I will continue to play both.
Thanks for reading!
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::>
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Overall a good read, Bio, but this one might mislead the uninformed. Skill points used to allow you to wear better quality talismans (gear) are also used to allow you to equip better quality weapons, they are not used to purchase attacks and abilities. Ability Points are.
I also find the games to be quite different. One big difference for me is altism. In TSW I can see no reason to create alts, in CO it's all you can do.
I been a long time leaving but I'm going to be a long time gone.
Willie Nelson
T.U.F.K.A.S. (the user formerly known as Scarlyng)
Wrong on the CO forums since November, 2008
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
As someone who used generic IOs almost exclusively in CoH so I could avoid both the catastrophic enhancement failure of SOs and the fiddliness of the rule of 5 with set IOs I was hooked when I finally noticed this stuff.
Personally I find the stat tetris of acquiring gear through drops and missions rather annoying so this was quite the quality of life feature to find.
I'd like to add that at some points the voice acting in CO doesn't sound as professionally done as it should have been. Take Zoe Loft's first monologue, for example. I get that she's supposed to talk with an odd inflection; she is psychotic, after all. But she doesn't sound psychotic in that speech. She sounds like a politician reading a speech off a teleprompter, and it sounds like she realized she was supposed to be nuts halfway through the last line.
You're right. I should have clarified that skill points, which are used to buy weapon or talisman skills, must be spent in order to use better gear, but you must then prioritize which to focus on as skill points aren't as plentiful as ability points, (though what you spend each on cost different amounts as well). Ability points, which are completely separate, are used to buy the actual attacks/powers/passives you use.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Well, they do make it pretty clear that you *are* superhuman in-game, (just more on the level of a Wolverine or Blade, instead of Superman or Green Lantern). One major point they drill into you is that, basically, you can't die permanently.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
To-date, I haven't found a cutscene that I can't skip in TSW, (though I honestly haven't wanted to skip any). I should be clear that I am still on my first play-through, though.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
This sounds a lot like the "Hell and Bach" mission that starts in the Savage Coast. If it's anything like that one (and most other investigation missions that I've run into in my small time there so far), then if you open your mission log and check the tiers for that mission, you may have an image of the book page in question that you can bring up and move around your screen anywhere you like. I just wish they were scalable like the map, because I don't always have enough screen to keep them open while playing.
it's not perfect and this can't be done with everything, but it can come in handy.
Cryptic User
Join Date: January 2011
Actually they are supers.
I'll have to check again, then... it was the one at the Overlook Motel.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
yeah, that's the one. trust me, you'll get a little more annoyed further down when you have to figure out which symbols go with which letters for the other magic circles. the clues it does give you to figure them out are rather not obvious. oh, and don't forget to look up at the ceiling from time to time. hehe.
Just remember when you are looking at the circle in the book page, the letters that it doesn't translate are usually placed next to one that it's close to in our alphabet, like the bottom outer half of the circle in the book is "M N O P." I think the top half is "S T U Q." "R" is in the middle. the bottom inner circle (I think) is, iirc, "C D B A" and I forget what the upper inner circle is. I might be a bit off, but this sounds about right.
Cryptic User
Join Date: January 2011
TSW characters are super like super-spies, or magical spies. Characters are super-human, but not superheroic.
There are no caped crusaders flying to the rescue, so to speak.
CO and DCUO remain the only supers MMORPGs in town. And when Marvel launches. . . well, it's just Diablo, except that you can have a team of 5 Deadpools.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Agreed, though, travel powers aren't really thematically appropriate to TSW.
One futher note about gear is that gear in TSW is the primary determining factor of how strong your character is. Your skill level also affects your abilities somewhat, but most of the benefit comes from the gear. Part of the reason it is made that way is that, if you want to run lower QL (quality level) content and have a challenge (or perhaps not roflstomp through mobs when helping characters with lower skill levels), you may simply equip appropriate QL gear to do that content.
QFT
Overall I prefer the "actiony" feel of CO's combat system, and prefer CO's power system over TSW's as well, though, I find that balance issues aren't as glaring in TSW. I don't have an issue with the basic idea of buying a progression of powers leading up to more advanced ones, though, and feel that's something missing and kind of "off" in CO's system, particularly given the presence of "Tiers" which I feel are unnecessary given that higher Tier powers are not necessarily more powerful, and no lower Tier powers are a requirement for higher Tiers.
That being said, I don't believe that TSW handles this much better than CO, because a lot of active/passive abilities (the equivalent of "powers") in TSW feel merely like "filler" abilities, which I believe is what may make them seem "useless" sometimes. Buying a low level single target fire ball then slowly progressing towards a massive rain of death high damage AoE fire ball would make sense (which would be one way I'd envision a Tiered system like they tried to do in CO), but that's not exactly how TSW does it all. They're not a logical progression of abilities or anything like that. Its just a series of barely thematically related abilities you have to swallow to the get the ones you actually do want and will use.
So in that sense I feel that TSW's system has a lot of bloat. They also extend the learning curve because there's a massive amount of abilities you have to read through in order to understand what you need in order to have an effective build, then you have to grind massive amounts of XP to work your way towards them.
The mission system is one of the most innovative aspects of TSW and they really give you a sense of progression, not only in terms of rewards, but also because they follow a logical line that makes sense in the context of what you're doing. They use many of the typical mission elements found in MMO's--Kill X, Collect Y, Interact with Z--but rather than do them individually as an excuse to advance in levels, they usually incorporate multiple objectives of different kinds that unfolds like telling a story.
You don't normally just Kill X monsters and complete the mission. First the may tell you to go investigate an area, then uppon arriving there to study X amount of objects scattered around, then to Kill Y amount of enemies around, the area, then destroy objects they've been using to cause harm around that area, then to find a boss-type enemy that's been leading them, then to kill them, then to recover something they had, etc.
OMG you don't like Investigation missions! They're like the staple of TSW and one of the things that sets it appart from the pack, how could you! :mad:
In all fairness, you're not the first one I've heard mention something like this and some investigation missions can be very cryptic in what they want you to do. That being said I greatly enjoy them (when I can figure out what I'm supposed to do :rolleyes:) and wish there were more puzzle elements in MMOs. Its one of the things I rarely see done, and only barely done with it is, yet TSW goes overboard with them and makes you fry your brain trying to figure them out.
And also, when all else fails, there is always unfair.co
Technically, it is super. (Incoming Biff in 5... 4... 3...) Just supers with the same origins, no flashy outfits, and everyone's beholden to the same global conspiracy. If TSW is a comic book, its Preacher but you're stuck working for The Grail.
My favorite is still Black "I'm Totally. Not Reading. This From. A Script" Diamond.
Pretty much,
They're technically "super" beings for story purposes within the context of the TSW universe, but the TSW universe itself is not of the "Superhero" genre, but rather merely has a "hint" of it, just like it also has a hint of fantasy but it isn't fantasy either, but rather Lovecraftian horror mixed with conspiracy theories with a hint of other stuff (including supers, fantasy and spy vs spy) in between.
Looks like I'm going to have to give this game a try.
VARIANT
"Nearly all men can withstand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
-Abraham Lincoln-
Actually, one of my favorite things about TSW is that the 'lore' of the game actually focuses around real world mythology and that's where it draws pretty much all it's inspiration from. It tweaks some things, such as Agartha, but, so far, everything I've come across in TSW already existed in the myths and beliefs of the real world. I actually had to explain that to a friend that was annoyed that they don't say more about the game's lore on the actual site until I told him to just google the word mythology.
That's a good point. When I say "fantasy" and I don't mean "D&D-style fantasy" but more like fantastic stuff based around real world mythology, including faeries, hollow earth/Agartha with World Tree hints, etc. Its a rich setting that draws inspiration from many sources. And while primarily "Lovecraftian horror", it is much more than just that.
Because PWE / Cryptic doesn't own the D&D license. Wizards of the Coast does and PWE / Cryptic answers to them. The burden is on them to focus on Neverwinter.
PWE / Cryptic owns the Champions license. They answer only to themselves when it comes to CO's development. They can get away with putting CO at the back of the line.
D&D is a hugely popular tabletop and computer gaming franchise and compared to it, Champions is just small fry. It's a no brainer as to why Neverwinter, followed by Star Trek (another hugely popular franchise) gets more attention.
Too bad we suffer for it.
You should. I got it for Christmas and have been having a blast.
Been playing it for a couple weeks now and I'm still only in the second section of the first quest area. Don't know the exact count but, I think there's 3 quest areas (Maine, Egypt, and Transylvania) and each of those is broken down into 2-3 areas.
Cut scenes are very well done with professional actors doing the voices and, to me, the graphics are amazing. One thing that should be pointed out is the content is much more mature than what someone would normally expect to find in a MMO. In one scene, when two villainish characters are talking and one says they want to help more, the other tells them to just keep spreading their legs to keep bringing in more lackeys which left me going O.o since I had never expected to hear that in a MMO.
My only real complaint is that you have to choose from a preset selection for facial features instead of being given sliders to adjust things like jaw width like CoX had but, you can still come up with a prety wide variety using that. I'm also hoping they'll come up with more hair styles soon. I'm not a big fan of too many of the hair styles currently available and it looks like that sentiment is shared by a large portion of the community given that I don't see too much variety in the styles players use.
How builds work is very interesting to me there. As was said earlier, you can only have a total of seven active powers and seven passives so, you have to build your character around synergies you can find among powers but, you never have to respec. You just drag and drop what you want to use into your trays, make sure you have the right weapons equipped to use them, and you're good to go. You can also save builds for your character too so, if you have one you like, you can swap between bulids with the push of a button.
Some people will complain that the combat is too repetitive but, I have to disagree as I don't see it as any moreso than any other MMO I've played (and I've played a lot of them) and have actually enjoyed trying to find optimal builds while being restricted to only 7 active powers.
What it does do very well, imo, is innovate in how you interreact with the game world around you. There's still your standard hunt and kill quests like in other MMOs but, you're not going to find one that makes you kill more than a dozen of a type of mob and there's a lot of missions that revolve entirely around solving puzzles as well as ones where you're actually supposed to avoid combat and instead figure out ways around things like guards and traps. Even quest acquisition is done differently. There's still the normal talk to contact and get quest type acquistion but, there are a LOT of quests in that game that you instead come across by finding items scattered throughout the world and often times one quest will be completed nearby where you can find another without actually telling you it's there so, you have to keep your eyes open to spot that new quest rather than just finishing up the missions from one contact and having them tell you who to talk to to get another.
True enough. Are there actual faeries in the game? In know there's the willow wisps but, don't think those are actually faeries ad then there's the bartender at the Horned God but, I can never remember if she's supposed to be an actual fae or just a human with fake wings on her back.
Ouch...that's a big one too.
I never understand why most MMO's don't give sliders for these features.
I don't mind a "lack" of outfits...but I hate having to create a character that looks just like other characters.
It's one of the biggest reasons why I can't play DCUO.
VARIANT
"Nearly all men can withstand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
-Abraham Lincoln-
Keep in mind "superhero" is a trademarked term that has certain applications.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superhero
TSW?
Extraordinary powers or abilities (yes)
Strong moral code (N/A - player dependent)
A motivation (N/A - player dependent)
A secret identity (No)
A distinctive costume (No)
An underlying motif or theme (No)
A supporting cast (Debatable, so let's go with Yes)
A rogues gallery (No)
Independant wealth or employment that allows minimum supervision (No)
A headquarters or base of operations (Yes)
A backstory (No)
There is a spectrum of "superhero," but in TSW that's a whole lot more no than yes.
Trademarked term with ridiculous stipulations aside...
A "superhero" to me is someone with superhuman abilities doing heroic acts.
TSW characters are "superheroes"...but more of the Dark Champions variety...or as someone else already mentioned...characters like blade.
VARIANT
"Nearly all men can withstand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
-Abraham Lincoln-
It depends on how far you stretch the definition of "fae" but I think there's some stuff in there hidden around the corners. And you may find more fae related once you get to Transylvania (I would have to do some research for more specifics but I believe there's fae related stuff there). The woman at the Horned God is just a human dressed as a fairy, though (I think).
@Pion
Actually, I hate replies within quoted text but Ima have to do it this time around cuz it would be easier for this...
I think there are more "yes" or "maybes" than "nos" there if you take a closer look.
...Really? Let me put it this way, if I may.
Would you be comfortable seeing Characters like Superman, the Martian Manhunter, Spider-man, the Fantastic Four, Justice League, Young Justice, Avengers and so in the Secret World Setting?
If not, then it isn't a super hero setting. It's a Horror/intrigue setting with minor metahuman elements.
And you are given a secret society costume when you pvp, that looks completely different than your costume in the real world. So when you are doing missions and pve, you are "under cover" and when you go up against the other societies, you don your "super hero" outfit.
Also keep in mind, since tsw is also a "free form" game, the endgame weeds out all the non-optimized builds and it really doesn't matter what role you pick, but there are only a handful of endgame builds that are worth their salt. Granted, doing missions and open world pve is awesome, and you can indeed use limitless builds for that, but Nightmare modes and raids will quickly teach you what you can and can't use for group play.
Remember: Half the people you know are below average...
Do not correct a fool, for he will hate you for it. Correct a wise man, for he will appreciate you for it.
Don't be like the Qularr. They would not last one round in the Interstellar Galactic Arena...
Handle @brayv
This. It's not rocket surgery, folks. There's no need for long lists and proofs, it's obvious. There's nothing wrong with TSW not being a super-hero game, but it's not.
That's what I'm saying. I'm not saying that its a superhero game/setting, but rather that the characters could qualify as superheroes (sort of), or that they meet several of the criteria for the definition of "superhero".
I really disliked the moving pace in the game. Same with Guild Wars 2. Gimme a damn bicycle or something! It's "falsely" making the game world bigger - but I don't know that this is a real flaw in and of itself. Star Wars Galaxies had huge game worlds, and that was a terrible thing.
Being a guy that usually prefers offense, I really disliked this, too. It almost felt stupid to me spending points for armor and stuff, when I could be shooting stuff in the face better (well, kinda... wasn't a fan at all of how their "power selection" worked). But this is just personal preference here.
The story was good (I only played a small amount but it was all well told). However, you mention a "mechanical feel" and that's how I felt about TSW, for one big reason. Your character never says a word! You get talked at all damn day and you have no input whatsoever on anything. The Old Republic really nailed it when it came to cutscenes and dialogue. In comparison, TSW fails for me. It completely breaks the mood when my characters are mute. GW2 also did it much better, but taking the characters out of the scene just to make them talk to each other while doing the thousand yard stare broke it.
That said, the cutscenes in Champs leave a lot to be desired. When lines of dialogue are actually spoken, there's like a three minute gap between all of them, making dialogue just completely unbelievable. Mix that in with some lines being spoken, the others just being in a speech bubble and... well, you get the picture. It's bad.
Absolutely hated the way powers worked, and the fact that you could never respec out of a misspent point. Yes, I know you earn enough points in the game that you won't be left wanting when you're months into the game, but it's absolutely stupid to not allow respecs.
Also, the game should have gone out of its way to explain some things. To a new player, saying "This thing exploits this status effect." is as useful as "Only occurs in certain circumstances."
I didn't find progression and being rewarded more often very exciting at all, really (no complaints but it's not something I'd put on a bullet list of what TSW did awesomely at). One thing I did dislike greatly was the limited amount of missions you could have at one time.
When my character doesn't look cool, it makes me not want to play the game very much. I found a much-renewed interest in GW2 when I realized I could buy any piece of gear and use transmutations to use those looks on the gear I can actually use. So I made my Warrior look like an awesome barbarian, and my Guardian (?) got a skimpier outfit (yeah I'm shallow, deal with it). I went so far as to buy the Krytan set for my Thief so I wasn't playing WORLD OF TRENCHCOATS all damn day with her.
In TSW, they literally lost me when I finally found a piece of clothing that I actually liked, but it cost like 12 bucks real money, and it could only be used on one character. Holy Toledo, no thanks. One thing to note though, they give you 10 bucks stipend, I think, but the game had done nothing to convince me to subscribe, so I just dropped it.
The funniest thing about these missions... when I first got one, it was like "Use the in-game browser to investigate these things, as you won't find clues to solve it in-game!" I was like, hey that's pretty neat. I loaded up the ol' browser, typed in the thing I wanted some info on, and the first thing that pops up is a complete walkthrough of the mission. Backfire!
Also, the most trouble I had was figuring out how to go about doing things in the world. like, I would get the clues, but I didn't know all I had to do was right-click or something on some birds. Just a tooltip saying "hey, in some parts, look for something to click on." would work. I'm a pretty savvy person when it comes to things like this... TSW made me feel like a grandma in that respect.
All in all, I find it to be a perfectly good game, but it's not for me. For the most part, it felt like I was just playing a game like Silent Hill, and kept thinking to myself "Why is this even an MMO?" It felt like a single player game the entire time, except when some a-hole inevitably and invariably came up to the mobs I'm trying to kill with my dumbassed pistols, and just destroys everything in a big cloud of lightning. Then back to a single-player experience.
I've played both games and actually came from TSW to CO because it was the better MMO.
TSW is a superhero game with characters who had an origin (stung by a magic insect), who possess bizarre powers (assault rifle of healing, anyone?) and who are far more powerful than regular people (battling with giant monsters is easy for them).
Yes, TSW characters lack blatant superhero costumes, which makes it like the PCs are undercover agents of superhuman secret societies, but this was probably to cut costs rather than follow any kind of genre.
The bottom line is that TSW simply isn't very good. They already had to abandon a subscription model as you can rush through the very linear content in a few weeks.
People seeking a more bland and linear version of CO could consider it, I suppose.
A Prootwaddle is one of the weirder player-character races in "The Fantasy Trip", Steve Jackson's first published role-playing game.
I can see straps on her shoulders for the wings, so yeah. She's just a human pretending to be a fae.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
2... 1... hahahaha
Yes, I did not pick up the game and have comic books spring to mind, at all. It's like saying Mario is just like a comic book super hero because he can throw fireballs and grow twice his size.
Sorry, just a big fat no on that one.
The limited appearance customization was (allegedly) to improve performance. The lack of blantant superhero costumes was to follow a specific modern day setting/genre where characters are supposed to look like every day people rather than call attention to themselves because they're supposed to be members of secret societies.
Matter of opinion, not fact.
You just described every MMO these days, other than maybe Rift or WoW, and by your definition the most successful new MMO to launch last year 2012 (GW2) wasn't very successful at all, since it didn't even try to go for the sub model.
Nothing is more linear or bland than CO.
Matter of opinion, not fact.
Sorry, had to! :P
While Champs is definitely on the linear side, I still find its combat to be more exciting than any other MMO I've ever played. I do like the dodging aspect of TSW and GW2, but that's about as far as my "likes" go for their combat systems.
However they failed to create modern day setting because all of the places seemed to take the weird events as normal, rather than being freaked out by them. If the characters are part of secret societies then they are clearly superhuman secret societies.
In London, for example, you find monsters browsing and selling things in an open air market and this is not a sign of a modern day setting.
I didn't say it was a matter of fact, this is your rather empty claim.
No, TSW started off as a subscription model despite not being good enough to survive in that manner. Naive people bought lifetime subscriptions only for subscriptions to be be abandoned fairly quickly.
You just randomly angry, aren't you?
There are plenty of different ways to level a character in CO and it is far, far richer than TSW having the Champions universe to draw from.
A Prootwaddle is one of the weirder player-character races in "The Fantasy Trip", Steve Jackson's first published role-playing game.
TSW is not being billed as a super-hero game by its publisher. If it had been intended as a super-hero game, they would be saying so. The fact that people are able to find similarities between the two genres is beside the point. They even poke fun at the genre, with one Orochi Group contact saying about the player character something like, "So we've got walking dead people, and now here's Spiderman."
I been a long time leaving but I'm going to be a long time gone.
Willie Nelson
T.U.F.K.A.S. (the user formerly known as Scarlyng)
Wrong on the CO forums since November, 2008
I think this is increasingly becoming a bad point to make. These days it seems it's just about impossible to sustain a subscription-based MMO. There's so many games that will tantalize you just because they're free. You pick one up on a whim, spend an hour there, and you're already invested. Much easier than tantalizing someone behind a pay wall. People don't want to invest in something they can't test drive.
LOL, you got me that IS an opinion and not fact :biggrin:
And agree about the combat for the most part. I don't think TSW combat is as bad as people make it out to be but CO is still overall better IMO. I was more refering to CO's story in that comment.
Pretty much. Though, I agree that TSW starting off as a subscription model was a bad decision (which I'm paying/paid for, since I'm one of those LTS'ers), and they should have started B2P to begin with. But... oh well, at least I'll still be getting bonus points years from now.
I'm still surprised that companies are still even trying the buy-and-subscribe model. Back when Champs went free to play (well, when it was announced) I was still of the mindset that free-to-play was a sign of sure death. Sure, Champions hasn't come leaps and bounds over the years, but it's clear that it was a positive move for the game. I thought The Old Republic was going to be the last game that could sustain a buy-and-subscribe model, just based purely on the franchise. Now I'm pretty convinced that no game will survive without having some free aspect to it.
However effectively the characters are superheroes. If you had the misfortune to sit through the intros you would have seen some very superhuman style explanations of the source of the power of three (supposedly) very different factions which actually use the same powers.
The characters are admittedly very uniform superheroes - it is as if the characters had to decide from the Punisher's assault rifle, Katana's (Batman's Outsiders) sword, The Owl's claws, Grifter's (WildStorms) dual pistols, Harley Quinn's giant hammer, etc, etc.
The powers are essentially all based around these OIF focuses (or weapons as TSW calls them) with no rhyme or reason to what they do. The best healing, for example, comes from the assault rifle, for heavens sake ...
One of the characters in the tutorial is also a dead ringer for John Constantine, the Swamp Thing's dodgy magical fixer from the DC Universe.
If it was a proper modern day MMO then it would be more like one of those Samurai games where every single blow can incapacitate you. Fighting a giant monster? You would need to be more careful in a real modern day MMO instead of standing tip to toe in TSW and bashing a few buttons to the ratio of hit point attrition is in your favour.
TSW has some of the worst excesses of fantasy MMOs where some of the tougher fighters have enough hit points to survive freefall from orbit.
Also did you discover the scrapyard where the owner is experimenting with giant robots? The psychic who actually has mystic powers? The church with functional ward, just in case an undead apocalypse is unleashed? This is just the first zone.
This is not a modern day setting, it is a superhuman one.
A Prootwaddle is one of the weirder player-character races in "The Fantasy Trip", Steve Jackson's first published role-playing game.