...nope

theravenforce · December 2012

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hitmouse · December 2012

I'm a little surprised that you don't have the force sheath advantage on your block.

theravenforce · December 2012

hitmouse wrote: »

I'm a little surprised that you don't have the force sheath advantage on your block.

With End and INT and the End spec giving me enough "rec" to fire off 2 full charge cascades energy has not been really an issue for this build. I speak of efficiency in terms damage.

However now that you mention it Force Sheath can help...I might have to factor in that addition some time. I am currently in the process of fixing two chars this character and another one.

jasinblaze · December 2012

i would swap int and end

int has readiness for end as well

then switch your passive to quarry

use good dodge gear and bcr

if you keep pff i would still swap idf for concentration which scales off of int or ego

you are never going to get good damage off a defensive passive and a defensive toggle so choose

theravenforce · December 2012

jasinblaze wrote: »

i would swap int and end

int has readiness for end as well

then switch your passive to quarry

use good dodge gear and bcr

if you keep pff i would still swap idf for concentration which scales off of int or ego

you are never going to get good damage off a defensive passive and a defensive toggle so choose

IDF and PFF now go hand in hand and work well together, I am sure with a few standardizations i.e. IDF having stacks which increase flat absorption by 25 and your damage by XX% it would be a viable choice. The whole basis of this build is shielding and relying on it really. I guess I just have to sacrafice damage elsewhere.

jasinblaze · December 2012

well then you need challenge advantages and do some tanking. what use are you to any team if you aren't doing any damage or pulling agro.
other option would be to do more support.

it seems as thought you are asking how can i increase my damage without changing anything

theravenforce · December 2012

jasinblaze wrote: »

well then you need challenge advantages and do some tanking. what use are you to any team if you aren't doing any damage or pulling agro.
other option would be to do more support.

it seems as thought you are asking how can i increase my damage without changing anything

I managed to make a build which caters for what I want it to do, I did have to sacrafice some advantages but IMO it was worth it. I'm able to survive and put out enough damage for what I need her for.

slowecsl4pwe · December 2012

Hi Ravenforce,

Is the build you show in the beginning updated to what you have decided to go with? What role do you run her in, hybrid, or tank?

I have been fretting myself over building a good force based character, and yours looks really fun to play.

I haven't kept up with the latest PFF updates or the change made to IDF. Is IDF a good form to take now, or would concentration work better?

If you rely on Telekinetic Assault as your main single target 100' attack, would it be better to choose Ego Reverberation as an energy unlock as this attack builds ego leech stacks pretty fast?

Thanks

theravenforce · December 2012

slowecsl4pwe wrote: »

Hi Ravenforce,

Is the build you show in the beginning updated to what you have decided to go with? What role do you run her in, hybrid, or tank?

I have been fretting myself over building a good force based character, and yours looks really fun to play.

I haven't kept up with the latest PFF updates or the change made to IDF. Is IDF a good form to take now, or would concentration work better?

If you rely on Telekinetic Assault as your main single target 100' attack, would it be better to choose Ego Reverberation as an energy unlock as this attack builds ego leech stacks pretty fast?

Thanks

It isnt updated to what I run her as I decided to drop Energy Refraction and go for TK Assault rank 3, but since I use Ego Surge now...FC consumes it so I'm probably going to have another look at it.

I run her in Hybrid Role.

PFF and IDF now are hand in hand and finally are best used together. However investing in dodge/avoid can be phenomenal. Cyrone has a dodge/avoid PFF Tank which is just too amazing IMO.

If you are wanting higher damage I'd suggest going for Concentration and making either INT or EGO one of your super stats.

ForceGirl is mainly a defensive build not at all geared for high damage. Which I hope to change.

I found that the current usage of MSA with high INT (as I have switched to INT, End/Ego) is a nice combination but her current version has some flaws in it.

IDF grants around 131 flat damage absorb at rank 3 now since they buffed it. PFF now has a higher shield regeneration rate, however this STILL is halved in combat but not so much anymore.

pwestolemyname · December 2012

Okay, I would swap EGO and END. That will help your damage. Pick up Force Sheathe to help with both your energy and durability.

But your main issue is too many attack powers. Dump Force Eruption, unless you take the buff advantage on it. Even then, it is marginal at best.

Dump IDF and pick up Concentration. Between PFF, Field Surge, Evasive Maneuvers and Protection Field, you should have more than enough durability.

I'm not sure why you have TK Assault. Pick up one of the offensive clicky buffs, Ego Surge is a good one.

That should get you fixed up.

theravenforce · December 2012

pwestolemyname wrote: »

Okay, I would swap EGO and END. That will help your damage. Pick up Force Sheathe to help with both your energy and durability.

But your main issue is too many attack powers. Dump Force Eruption, unless you take the buff advantage on it. Even then, it is marginal at best.

Dump IDF and pick up Concentration. Between PFF, Field Surge, Evasive Maneuvers and Protection Field, you should have more than enough durability.

I'm not sure why you have TK Assault. Pick up one of the offensive clicky buffs, Ego Surge is a good one.

That should get you fixed up.

I changed to INT and I dont like it as a primary, I am considering EGO though, but I might end up going back to END primary.

My build only has 4 attacks...

IDF and PFF are a must together, no doubt about it. Even with IDF PFF still dies very fast.

Force Eruption is for when people get too close...it seems to provide a useful KB...sometimes.

I dont know why I have TK Assault either

I got it to rank 3 on my current build and it seems to function nicely.

I did get Ego Surge but that is consumed by FC all the time. So is hardly worth it.

I will be getting Force Sheath.

theravenforce · December 2012

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xeiros · December 2012

Oh boy get ready this ones is a doozy!

1. Protection Filed with no presence, compassion, and I'm guessing bonus healing on gear either. NOPE.

2. Drop Force Shield entirely. This build is not wanting for energy. Instead take Ebon Void with Voracious Darkness given PFF's synergy with blocks. That or Energy Shield

3. TK Lance? What? You have zero powers supporting it and didn't even bother to fully rank it at least. Drop it immediately.

4. Drop sleight of mind from evasive. It is unreliable in team-play and horrible solo. Note that should the 50% chance at an aggro drop actually proc when you're alone, the mobs health will reset.

Instead just rank the power to 3. Spam it the moment it comes off CD every time to double stack it. The 24% flat dodge buff will be pivotal in keeping PFF up.

5. You need to abuse The Best Defense + Aggressive Stance spec combo. They go very well with Force of Will from the Ego Tree. Any other defensive passive I'd say you didn't have to, buit this is PFF.

6. Get a second heal in there. Bionic Shielding, Empathic Healing. Something.

7. What did you take Detonation for? Damage? If so, why is it not fully ranked?

8. Lock n Load on a build with poor Critical damage and a main attack the activates energy form cancel mode? Get rid of it or if you must take an AO make it Ascension.

9. PFF needs HP to buy you breathing room when it goes down. Your Active Defenes and one heal wont save you. Though you could always block turtle. That's exciting in its own way. Since you don't have any well good luck.

theravenforce · December 2012

xeiros wrote: »

Oh boy get ready this ones is a doozy!

1. Protection Filed with no presence, compassion, and I'm guessing bonus healing on gear either. NOPE.

2. Drop Force Shield entirely. This build is not wanting for energy. Instead take Ebon Void with Voracious Darkness given PFF's synergy with blocks. That or Energy Shield

3. TK Lance? What? You have zero powers supporting it and didn't even bother to fully rank it at least. Drop it immediately.

4. Drop sleight of mind from evasive. It is unreliable in team-play and horrible solo. Note that should the 50% chance at an aggro drop actually proc when you're alone, the mobs health will reset.

Instead just rank the power to 3. Spam it the moment it comes off CD every time to double stack it. The 24% flat dodge buff will be pivotal in keeping PFF up.

5. You need to abuse The Best Defense + Aggressive Stance spec combo. They go very well with Force of Will from the Ego Tree. Any other defensive passive I'd say you didn't have to, buit this is PFF.

6. Get a second heal in there. Bionic Shielding, Empathic Healing. Something.

7. What did you take Detonation for? Damage? If so, why is it not fully ranked?

8. Lock n Load on a build with poor Critical damage and a main attack the activates energy form cancel mode? Get rid of it or if you must take an AO make it Ascension.

9. PFF needs HP to buy you breathing room when it goes down. Your Active Defenes and one heal wont save you. Though you could always block turtle. That's exciting in its own way. Since you don't have any well good luck.

You then have to wonder:

1) Proc Field works fine without any PRE, I can get 1.9k out of it, combined with decent dodge chance and avoidance it stacks well with PFF and it is themeatic.

2) Ebon Void lacks complete sense with my theme, which is a force field wielding character.

3) Dropping TK Lance in favour of?

4) Not only is it a good advantage but it works almost all the time for me, and it stays in theme.

5) Whilst Defense is good Dodge is better, something which I will be capitalising on when using PFF.

6) Agreed.

7) Hmm I'll try to rework my build for this.

8) I'm currently using Ego Surge which is auto consumed by FC. Lock and Load isnt an Energy Form so it stays, hence why I am using it. Why on earth would I pick such an out of theme power like Ascension?!

9) They seem to have worked so far, since this isnt a PvP build, you know?

Please remember the theme of the build when posting feedback. Thanks.

selphea · December 2012

It looks like primary Pre does a lot of what you're looking for. Defense from better Protection Fields, Offense from the crit rate specialization. You're planning to get a second heal anyway, so Pre is going to give you more mileage there too.

Of course, the trouble with primary Pre is that it's not going to give the awesome energy management that End does, so a bit of rearrangement of powers might be necessary.

Try something like:

Take secondary Rec. Protection Field's energy return scales with Rec, so I think it works better for a bubble build.
Swap MSA for Overdrive since it scales with Rec
Drop Force Sheathe R3. As a Force character you should have a lot of "GTFO me!" skills, so you really shouldn't be blocking that much.
Swap TK Lance for TK Assault to work with Overdrive, take it to R3. It'll be your main single target skill.
Swap Force Cascade for Crushing Wave, take it to R3 too. It'll be your main AoE. It's somewhat more party friendly than Cascade, and since your Cascade isn't going to one-shot things, it probably makes more sense to get a power that lets the party do damage too.
And because you don't need Force Detonation to trigger MSA anymore, swap that for Force Eruption with the Gravitational Polarity advantage to buff your damage, and to act as one of those "GTFO me!" skills.

With a setup like that it should be possible to take Dex as your other secondary superstat. The extra crit chance should help with damage.

Alternatively, you could keep Ego primary and just switch the secondaries and powers. That will give you more damage and stronger base PFF strength (Ego mastery adds +40 to your superstats) but weaker bubbles and heals, so it's personal preference.

IMO though, with a defensive passive and no damage on your Form, good damage is definitely out of reach, so no point competing with the damage dealers. But with a heal, bubbles and IDF I think the character has potential as a pseudo-support, so primary Pre makes a lot more sense. That works with the Invisible Woman theme too, because more often than not, when she shields, she ends up shielding the whole group instead of just herself.

But if you really want damage, it looks like you'll be getting 47%+ crit chance with primary Pre and secondary Rec/Dex. Pair that with Guardian/Vindicator with Locus and maybe you can get something going there.

cyrone · December 2012

xeiros wrote: »

6. Get a second heal in there. Bionic Shielding, Empathic Healing. Something.

9. PFF needs HP to buy you breathing room when it goes down. Your Active Defenes and one heal wont save you. Though you could always block turtle. That's exciting in its own way. Since you don't have any well good luck.

These two in particular made me chuckle. Here's why:

Protogen, my PFF tank, only has one heal - Stimpack on Holdout Shot.

Additionally he has 10 Con, so he has the lowest possible HP. Works just fine due to everything he has.

zedulon · December 2012

You do no damage because you have no damage boost powers.

- PFF doesn't boost damage
- IDF doesn't boost damage
- Lock and Load rank 1 works for maybe 20-25% of the time (depending on cooldown reduction)
- You don't have the DEX to support crits.

So of course you do no damage. If you want to deal DPS, you need a solid damage buff. The obvious one is Concentration. But you seem devoted to the IDF idea. PFF seems more vital to the theme than IDF, but as someone said Quarry is an option. That would also let you use Ranged role rather than Hybrid, which boosts your *base* damage by 25% and makes your super stats reduce threat.

If you keep IDF and PFF, you are down to using Active Offenses and Crits to increase damage.

Crits are the common way to go with this. That would require Dex as a superstat (or at least a 4th stat to 70+) to increase base crit chance. Ego still works as a primary (or Int for Enlightened if you 4th-stat Dex). And take Vindicator spec for Merciless and Mass Destruction, and a piece of offensive primary gear with +Crit.

You can also go with Active Offenses. If you take 3 Active Offenses, you can rotate through them to keep one up almost all the time. See how much Lock and Load is helping when it is on - if you like that boost, you can get more of it. Revitalize might help with cooldown reduction, depending on how much you actually use your EB.

You can also combine crits and AOs. Lock and Load, Ego Surge (with Adv), and Ice Sheath all boost crits as well.

Personally I would build the Invisible Girl as a bubble-healer. (This would require a completely different toon.) Go with Protection Field and Mindful Reinforcement as your heals. Primary SS would have to be PRE. Slotted passive would normally be AoPM for a bubble-healer, but in this case I'd go with Seraphim for graphics reasons (or Medical Nanites if you want to keep Force Cascade as an attack.) But if you *really* want to be the Invisible Girl... Night Warrior lets you turn invisible, and throwing bubbles does *not* break stealth.

cyrone · December 2012

zedulon wrote: »

You do no damage because you have no damage boost powers.

These statements are kind of bothersome. *Everyone* does damage. Some do more, some do less. Damage buffing powers are completely optional.

theravenforce · December 2012

cyrone wrote: »

These statements are kind of bothersome. *Everyone* does damage. Some do more, some do less. Damage buffing powers are completely optional.

Cyrone he is right. People with LR/Invuln/Defiance or Regeneration do NO DAMAGE! Instead it grants immunity to all foes. Duh!

/sarcasm

xD

ayonachan · December 2012

Well PFF+IDF is pretty much just a combination of Regeneration and Invulnerability just without the resistance...so one must gear/spec for all those missing parts in order to remain god-like...

Alright I'll make myself an abyss gawker...give me a few minutes...

Mmmk I jumped into the middle of the first group of Hard 5-man demons(12 of them to be exact) and didn't do anything just to see how it fairs. It is impossible for the first group to kill me. I didn't block and I didn't attack I just stood there and took their holds and knocks and attacks.

Well one group in 5-man is boring! Time for the real challenge! I pulled the whole room(36 in total) and watched. My pff dropped to nil and my hp slowly began to sink until finally after two minutes my screen began to flash.

Alright...pff+idf can take minor hits from multiple mobs well enough...but how about the biggies, hmm? The only way to test this is to solo gravitar...but it is very hard to make people die(when you want them to) and leave so I can test her by myself...so this will have to wait for another time.

My numbers were:

85%+25%(+20%)+10% Resistance to all damage
7775 781 PFF
132 IDF
44.4%/61.9% Dodge/Avoidance

Oh and if you are wondering, IDF has a cap of 132...which is ****ed up considering it should be BETTER than invul....then again I guess it 'does' give it to everyone in your 'team' so I guess it is fine...still pretty ****ed up though...

Edit: Oh my stats and junk..here:

Super Stats:
Level 6: Strength (Primary)
Level 10: Dexterity (Secondary)
Level 15: Constitution (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: Superhuman
Level 6: Agile
Level 9: Mighty
Level 12: Enduring
Level 15: Martial Focus
Level 18: Physical Conditioning
Level 21: Acrobat

Powers:
IDF R3 + PFF R3 nothing else was on except my swinging

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Energy Swinging (Flippin')

Specializations:
Strength: Swole (3/3)
Strength: Quick Recovery (2/2) Gave me 2 hp every 3 seconds

Strength: Aggression (2/2)
Strength: Juggernaut (3/3)
Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Warden: Elusive (2/2)
Warden: Tenacious (2/2)
Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Modified Gear (2/2)
Mastery: Strength Mastery (1/1)

Edit2: OH and don't follow my mini build it was just made to test out pff+idf the above shouldn't be used for practical uses..at least not without some minor modifications!

theravenforce · December 2012

Just curious to see how you got that dodge avoidance rating, I'd love to get something similar for my PFF toon. I have the legion gears Elusive and Agility. Any pointers? I havent used them yet

Also regarding IDF...ah...that is irritating, I was upset that I couldnt push IDF above 132.

ForceGirl's current PFF strength is 8.136 and her regen rate is....782.

IDF @ 132 and dodge/avoid is 39.9%/20%

I can boost it temporarily using Amazing Grace >_>

Thanks for the testing

ayonachan · December 2012

Rank 9 Gambler's + Legion Agility and swinging w/ flippin' advantage puts me at 44.4%/61.9%

My secondaries were 3 armadillo..because nothing else can compare to the 25% bonus resistance to all damage...except the 25% bonus damage to your specific damage type.

theravenforce · December 2012

ayonachan wrote: »

Rank 9 Gambler's + Legion Agility and swinging w/ flippin' advantage puts me at 44.4%/61.9%

My secondaries were 3 armadillo..because nothing else can compare to the 25% bonus resistance to all damage...except the 25% bonus damage to your specific damage type.

wow, rank 9 is going to be a killer to get... I'll have to probs settle for rank 7 in that case.

As for the secondaries...I've never considered them before

...I might. Thank you ^_^

selphea · December 2012

Speaking of the Armadillo set, does it give resist all or just resist physical? The item description says resist all but the tooltip says resist physical, and a 25% additive bonus is hard to confirm either way.

cyrone · December 2012

Dexterity Primary with all of the dodge specs + Legion's Agility w/ x2 R7 Gambler's and my base, out of combat Dodge / Avoid is 57 / 63.7%.

Add on R3 Evasive: 81% dodge. Stacked for a few seconds due to rediculous cooldowns and I've got 105% dodge.

Maintaining Lead Tempest (Concentration toggled): 72% Dodge and 73.6% Avoid.

Evasive x1 + LT Maintain and I've got: 96% Dodge / 73.6% Avoid.

Then the damage comes into my PFF shield of 8,154. :cool:

I've also got Amazing Grace and Masterful Dodge just for kicks.

mysticfloater · December 2012

For invisible girl why not take Night Warrior. You do not have to use the attack it comes with. It provides a small dodge and avoidance bonus, it buffs your force damage (a bit) and... it makes you invisible.

Also, if you do keep evasive maneuvers the "aggro wipe" advantage puts you in stealth when it works.

I have a wind/force toon using Ego, Int and Dex. Not much defense but fun to play.

There are lots of choices...

ayonachan · December 2012

selphea wrote: »

Speaking of the Armadillo set, does it give resist all or just resist physical? The item description says resist all but the tooltip says resist physical, and a 25% additive bonus is hard to confirm either way.

Last time I checked it was all damage even though it says 'physical'. They may or may not have broken it since then...I honestly wouldn't have noticed if they did nor would I even swap them out for vigilante since my secondary super stats are what I need more than my primary.

theravenforce · December 2012

mysticfloater wrote: »

For invisible girl why not take Night Warrior. You do not have to use the attack it comes with. It provides a small dodge and avoidance bonus, it buffs your force damage (a bit) and... it makes you invisible.

Also, if you do keep evasive maneuvers the "aggro wipe" advantage puts you in stealth when it works.

I have a wind/force toon using Ego, Int and Dex. Not much defense but fun to play.

There are lots of choices...

As much as I'd love to explore that option, I have poured so much effort into trying to make personal force field work as a passive. And frankly isnt possible without having either very high defense or LR level dodge/avoid.

Then there is the issue of powerful force fields. 1.9k is weaksauce for a protection field in anyone's estimation.

I think I'll just have to accept I can't make this character work as well as I'd like it to because of lack of themeatic powers and a passive which could and should be better.

theravenforce · December 2012

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theravenforce · December 2012

I am quite confused about the whole thing

Been plugging back into F4 and seeing that Night Warrior Passive makes more thematic sense for my homage toon.

Would it be possible to make a toon with NW passive which works well for pseudo support?

I was thinking maybe a dual passive build?

So confused atm .....

cyrone · December 2012

theravenforce wrote: »

I am quite confused about the whole thing

Been plugging back into F4 and seeing that Night Warrior Passive makes more thematic sense for my homage toon.

Would it be possible to make a toon with NW passive which works well for pseudo support?

I was thinking maybe a dual passive build?

So confused atm .....

I can see about tweaking my build for Nova Remnant to fit what you're looking for in Night Warrior.

theravenforce · December 2012

cyrone wrote: »

I can see about tweaking my build for Nova Remnant to fit what you're looking for in Night Warrior.

Ooh yush please

I might as well have slapped [HELP MEH CYRONE] on that last post ;3

cyrone · January 2013

theravenforce wrote: »

Ooh yush please

I might as well have slapped [HELP MEH CYRONE] on that last post ;3

Behold!

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name: ForceGirl

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Ego (Primary)
Level 10: Intelligence (Secondary)
Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Impulse
Level 6: Indomitable
Level 9: Brilliant
Level 12: Tireless
Level 15: Academics
Level 18: Negotiator
Level 21: Wordly

Powers:
Level 1: Force Bolts
Level 1: Force Blast (Rank 2, Field Inversion)
Level 6: Force Eruption (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 8: Personal Force Field (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Field Surge (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 14: Force Cascade (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Molecular Self-Assembly
Level 20: Force Shield (Force Sheathe)
Level 23: Force Geyser
Level 26: Concentration
Level 29: Night Warrior (Rank 2, Rank 3, Silent Running)
Level 32: Ego Surge (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Force Detonation (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 38: Inertial Dampening Field

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Athletics
Level 35: Flight (Rank 2, Rank 3)

Specializations:
Ego: Mental Endurance (3/3)
Ego: Force of Will (2/2)
Ego: Insight (3/3)
Ego: Aggression (2/2)
Overseer: Administer (3/3)
Overseer: Overseer Aura (3/3)
Overseer: Conservation (1/2)
Overseer: Enhanced Gear (3/3)
Avenger: Can't Touch This (2/3)
Avenger: Round 'em Up (3/3)
Avenger: Offensive Expertise (2/2)
Avenger: Preemptive Strike (3/3)
Mastery: Ego Mastery (1/1)

theravenforce · January 2013

ERMAHGERD!

Absolute babe x3 Tyvm!

cyrone · January 2013

theravenforce wrote: »

ERMAHGERD!

Absolute babe x3 Tyvm!

I may even use this build myself. Nova was originally a NW passive build using all Force.

theravenforce · January 2013

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cyrone · January 2013

On the build that I put up...in game I'm using Rank 2 Eruption, moved those two points to Energy Refraction, and Rank 2 Ego Surge - those points went to rank 2 IDF.

sagewithbubbles · January 2013

Why not just drop PFF entirely and go with Night Warrior?

Sue has to concentrate to maintain her shielding (kinda like spending energy to use Protection Field), it's not an "always on" thing that degrades with damage (like PFF).

It'd save you a power pick and some advantage points.

theravenforce · January 2013

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savagedeacon · January 2013

theravenforce wrote: »

Hi guys. Basically I'm realising my adaptations from AT - FF arent working out very well on two of my characters.!

I went your same way: Since iI wanted pay tribute to the Human Torch I changed my Inferno AT to a free form so I could had two extra powers that I felt were needed: To my surprise my char was nerfed from a glass cannonj to a glass squirt gun. When you convert an AT to FF you have to remember that with the same powers it will do around 20% less damage and adjust for it

...nope

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