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It will NEVER be balanced, Accept this, and Quit Complaining!
Archived Post
Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
I proposed on another forum topic that a way to semi balance the game was to put a restriction on the number of power sets each avatar was allow branching off into, like 3 or so.
That idea was wildly unpopular, and I was flamed quite a bit. Sorry! Trying to help out with positive, new ideas.
Anyways that being torn down, I've come to the conclusion that the game will never be balanced. It simply just cannot be done, and here's why: when there are no classes there's nothing to compare and balance too.
Each tree has about 10-13ish powers. So to balance they would have to make sure that every electric power would not over powered or underpowered to itself.. Than all the other trees.. THAN all the electric powers combined with *insert power set" to all the other trees, and THAN continue until electric was combined with every tree until there was no tree left and compare that to the other power sets... THAN move on to the next power set and repeat/continue the process until the 1000's of combinations would all be balanced!
So, it's not simple, in fact, it's impossible. It just can't and won't be done.
If anything the game will be balanced around PVE, which means, if it's not overpowered to the NPC's it won't be balanced, EX: Teleport.
That idea was wildly unpopular, and I was flamed quite a bit. Sorry! Trying to help out with positive, new ideas.
Anyways that being torn down, I've come to the conclusion that the game will never be balanced. It simply just cannot be done, and here's why: when there are no classes there's nothing to compare and balance too.
Each tree has about 10-13ish powers. So to balance they would have to make sure that every electric power would not over powered or underpowered to itself.. Than all the other trees.. THAN all the electric powers combined with *insert power set" to all the other trees, and THAN continue until electric was combined with every tree until there was no tree left and compare that to the other power sets... THAN move on to the next power set and repeat/continue the process until the 1000's of combinations would all be balanced!
So, it's not simple, in fact, it's impossible. It just can't and won't be done.
If anything the game will be balanced around PVE, which means, if it's not overpowered to the NPC's it won't be balanced, EX: Teleport.
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Although Min/Maxers will always be top of the pile in pvp, it doesnt mean that all other builds will be completely unviabile, although a disadvantage will remain for those that dont try to squeeze every point out they can...
But name one MMO where min/maxing has never had an advantage and you will have likely named a game with a flawed system, most good pvp aspect games have always had min/maxing and to me its the challenge of facing such opponents and besting them that keeps pvp alive!
Exactly. It's not about taking OP powers or OP builds. It's about taking purely bugged powers. Like swallowtail cut. Lol bugged pvp power if there ever was one.
On another note until they fix the messed up bleed take concussor beam. Most of the people who take the cut just have that and no repel, kb res so you can kite most of them.
The trick is most MMOs reward cross-character synergy. Heavily. Here? Not so much. Most of the buff other players abilities are locked in a few trees. Everyone has access to the same defensive and offensive passives, the same DPS cooldowns, the same defense cooldowns.
The problem inherent is that since it's an open system, people WILL pick what's best. If X build is Ze Superior Tanking Build, then if there's ever content that actually warrants it, you'll see most serious players that tank playing that build. Same goes for DPS. Same goes for healing.
It's funny. In attempting to achieve greater variety, an open system actually kills it.
Sad but true...
I got in a game once with 3 support characters (including me) and 2 DPS. Was great since all three of us had different supports, so we were just plain unkillable. No matter how many STC's, TP's, hold spam, and chain kd's were thrown at us, we always won 15-0. But again, you are almost FORCED to talk to team mates, and not everyone is a social butterfly.
Teleport is 100% broken in pve. You can skip content and never have to die. It's silly. It's the ultimate crutch for people who don't want to use any kind of strategy in both pve and pvp.
The people who like teleport do not like any kind of challenge. They want everything to be easy. These are not people anyone should be taking feedback from.
However, there is such a thing as "close enough". What we have currently is "so far from balanced it's stupid". And the more people defend broken mechanics and abilities, the further it gets.
Complain away, because there's nothing else that will stop this community from driving it's own game down the crapper.
PvP only wrecks games that are trying to do well at making a good PvE universe. People complain that they can't kill so and so class... so that gets nerfed... but the real people who pay for that nerf are the people who play that class in PvE. A never ending circle of stupidity. :eek:
It is imbalanced though between abilities because some give greatly more benefit for cost relative to their difficulty or ease of use. This leads to a homogenation of tactics. In fact some of the more powerful abilities like invulnerability, resurgence, and teleport have no or negligible energy costs, and their expense is merely the opportunity cost of not having a different power instead, though it would be hard to imagine why anyone would.
Also defensive abilities are too easily stacked and tend to run greatly more powerful then offensive abilities which leads to some players being practically invulnerable (being able to heal as fast as they regenerate energy) which can lead to stalemates if both sides are that way.
Its funny. The only people I see whine in game about TP are the Premades spamming shotgun, metoer-advantaged chain, mindful reinforcmenet, swalltail-cheese, etc. etc.
Just fought one premade that had the gall to call me a tele*** when my first death in game was to one of them chain knockdowning me with meteor-chain over and over killing me by himself (I am support so not much hp).
I mean...a freakin premade vs pug already and they are using all the chessiest crap; and yet yer gonna ***** when I tp away?
TP is so overrated. The problem isn't tp...its that anti-travel powers need to be spread around to more sets and easily accessable. The devs are hopeflly working on this. In fact I regret taking TP on that char....flying would be much better for a support char; but I wanted to save earth flight for lvl35 like a fool. Oh well.
I have a pure melee-might char who will have ONE ranged attack which will be iron lariot. I haven't even earned it yet cuz I'm not too it on my level list...and I DO FINE taking out TPers by using thunderlunge.
Please note I said PURE MELEE-MIGHT char
****
I just recalled something from that fight. When the hyprocrite stopped to cry at me like all his entire team stopped. It was freaky....they litterally just stopped moving. Bunch of pre-made lemmings or something.
What I care about are bugged powers. That's what comes to MY mind when I say balanced. And there's no excuse to allow bugged powers to exist. None. They should be top priority at all times instead of somewhere in the middle like they seem to be now.
I watch it happen constantly in arena. God I miss conflag. = (
What I find funny about it all is how tough some of the PvP players act and the smack they talk......"look how tough my guy is, I can kick your behind in PvP, you can't even hurt me!!"......when they all use pretty much the same powers that everyone knows is unbalanced, including themselves.... hence why this thread is about how PvP will never be balanced. They know it's unbalanced, yet they think they are the coolest just because they use all the standard unbalanced PvP stuff, like it took some skill to find some PvP secret on their own, lol.
Almost no skill is required, as PvP is won and lost in what powers you have in most cases. So it should be, "look how tough I am because I have all of the most unbalanced PvP powers!! The same ones that that guy has, and that other guy, and that other guy over there." I know, the hardcore PvPers will have a problem with that concept because they want to think it's their skill that wins them games so easily over people that use PvE builds in PvP games......but hate to break it to you.....its not. This is not a rant, I just find it hilarious how they act tough over choosing and using the same formula of powers as everyone else, and not surprisingly, win over PvE build players. Sadly, PvP should have a disclaimer, "No skill required, just pick these specific powers to win."
The majority of people that are complaining are the ones that are not willing to compromise their builds just to take all of the now standard cheesy PvP powers....and they shouldn't have to. PvP needs to be balanced. Sure, it will never be completely balanced....but it needs to be made into something MUCH closer to being balanced than what it is now. Even PvPers know it, just some won't admit it because they don't want their cheese taken away.
wanted to remember this thread for some reason
lol:biggrin:
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
hmmm why do u think so?
i believe they want to destroy all their powers so that nothing is better than anything else
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e31OSVZF77w
PvP is not going to be balanced because it's not a PvP game. Why this bit of obviousness escapes the notice some people is beyond me.
Wait? Whaaaa..?
Btw Smoochan there zombies are not OP'd it's just the way certain necromancers choose to use em especially in PVP stop crying nerf all the time.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The one who can't shut up formerly known as 4rksakes
About the @handle - it's a long story.
Profound quote.. "I'm not a complete idiot - several parts are missing."
They just keep making the hill higher, so it seems unlikely they will ever make any genuine attempt to climb it.
As far as this not being a PVP game. You can PVP, so it is a PVP game. It just isn't a very good PVP game. PVP.
The same way it's not a racing game even though you can drive vehicles in it.
Wait? Whaaaa..?
Say it all you want... but just look how many people this zombie got... crits all over!
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
By the way, that "perfect imbalance" thing is illogical. Perfect balance makes it so that other powers will be successful, or it can be easier to make it successful. This makes it less likely for there to be flavors of the month. Builds would still be copied out of expedience, or laziness, but there wouldn't be as many of the same.
Also, in video games, there are a lot more variables to keep things interesting. Chess is limited to a few ways of moving. Champions has far more combinations, plus things like map geometry and enemy placement/type affect the replay value positively. Eventually those who spend enough time with Chess will notice only a handful of strategies are best; Champions this may happen but it won't be necessary to use the same types of builds to be successful.
Since this is an MMO game, Cryptic can add more enemies and more content, and keep coming up with ways to challenge players who might feel they've mastered everything. A content-delivery system would of course offload much of the work to experienced players who have good ideas and more time.
I say the so-called Jedi curve is the way to go. "Perfect imbalance" means that developers are intentionally breaking their game and lying about it so people won't feel they've mastered anything (population control). This is a dishonest development strategy, and it also makes it so a developer doesn't have to use any ingenuity by coming up with things that players will like. One way for games like this to present new challenges is to write better AI. You don't have to learn the game, just model it after skilled players. This is not a new concept; game companies have done this before.
Eventually, more intelligent players will catch on and notice things are shifting and then they'll wonder why.
No. Atari bailed because they were perennially short on cash and couldn't turn the game into a CoH-beater, let alone a WoW beater.
Take this year. Their net "income" was NEGATIVE 5 million dollars. And the sad part? That's BETTER than last year, when they sold Cryptic!
Basically there was too much emphasis on pushing the product out the door ASAP. And not enough on getting the product done *right*. Cheap, fast, good. Pick one. (And they did.)
Not to say that Cryptic didn't bungle a lot of things (and did they ever). But the root cause is that the company and its publisher have been cash poor. So they make development decisions, based on money, that negatively affect the game. Then wonder why they get a negative response, and ever-diminishing revenues. It's a vicious cycle. It's why we now have a two man development team, essentially no support, and PWE is simply trying to milk the game for every last erg of cash.
Agreed. Breaking the game (which is already pretty broken as-is), just to stop uber-builds by temporarily distorting the mechanics? Yeah. FFF-HELL NO! Were that to happen here, I can guarantee you that the poop-storm would essentially kill the game at this point.
"Champions-Online and Star Trek Online contained hundreds of hours of mediocre content!"
and "nothing was polished".
--Jack Emmert