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Dear CoX refugees...

twg042370twg042370 Posts: 592 Arc User
edited December 2012 in Champions Online Discussion
Please buy a lot of stuff so the same thing doesn't happen here in a year.

Thanks.

XOXO
_________________
Wait? Whaaaa..?
Post edited by twg042370 on
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Comments

  • honestresearcherhonestresearcher Posts: 657 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Dear CoX refugee's...

    RUUUUUUUUUUUUUNNNNN!!!!!
  • crashdragoncrashdragon Posts: 31 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Dear CoH refugee's.

    Get over it already.

    * reinserts earplugs *
    I like to hang around laundromats and steal hero's tights for ransom. =3
  • towershield#4714 towershield Posts: 1,208 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Dear CoH refugee's.

    Get over it already.

    * reinserts earplugs *

    *Guaranteed replies*
    ___________________________________________________________________________________________
  • oyo32oyo32 Posts: 141 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Dear CoX refugees,

    The lower your expectations are, the higher your enjoyment is.
    AOyJ2f6.png
  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    twg042370 wrote: »
    Please buy a lot of stuff so the same thing doesn't happen here in a year.

    Thanks.

    XOXO

    Dear CoX refugees let me introduce you to CO's very own version of Marvin the depressed robot XD
    nepht_siggy_v6_by_nepht-dbbz19n.jpg
    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
    I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
  • twg042370twg042370 Posts: 592 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Yeah, ignore me. We know the game runs on wishes and belief. Like an MMO Tinkerbell.
    _________________
    Wait? Whaaaa..?
  • smoochansmoochan Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Dear CoX Refugees,

    Won't you try some hero games?




    Warning: Hero Games may contain lethal amounts of mercury and rat feces.

    Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
  • fudgemonstafudgemonsta Posts: 1,591 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    smoochan wrote: »
    Dear CoX Refugees,

    Won't you try some hero games?




    Warning: Hero Games may contain lethal amounts of mercury and rat feces.

    And the clowns! Don't forget the clowns!
    @HangingDeath

    Deliciously nutritious!
  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    twg042370 wrote: »
    Yeah, ignore me. We know the game runs on wishes and belief. Like an MMO Tinkerbell.


    All this time I thought it ran on a 3D graphics engine. But this..this new info...it all makes sense now. That is some looking glass $h!t right thar.
    nepht_siggy_v6_by_nepht-dbbz19n.jpg
    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
    I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
  • canadascottcanadascott Posts: 1,257 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Dear CoX refugees.

    Enjoy your time here. And thank you for giving us a break from grim and gritty costumes and demon bits. Thank you for not being ashamed to rock the spandex and celebrating those comic book heroes who actually enjoy wearing tights.
    /CanadaBanner4.jpg
  • lotusabstractlotusabstract Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    I don't know if anyone noticed but I think a lot of CoX
    ppl went to The Secret World instead. I really hate the way
    CO was abandoned so quickly after release so that STO
    could be produced. CO was to become the Marvel MOO,
    but Marvel sold out to Disney. CO was to come to the
    Xbox 360, but they didn't do enough forward thinking
    about how to get that to work. They should have done
    a PS3 instead. Filled with empty promises & broken
    dreams so far, but I'm still gonna take a crack at it &
    hope the remaining 2 developers can come through
    with a miracle.:redface:
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • pion01pion01 Posts: 758 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    If they did go to secret world, they likely won't stay very long. Aside from the many issues plaguing that game, the feel and genre equates in no way to CoX.
  • valasquavalasqua Posts: 51 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    I have a lifetime sub to TSW, and I think it's a fantastic game. But it doesn't allow for a breadth of character concepts the way CO does. So I'm in both for now.
  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Dear CoX refugees.

    Enjoy your time here. And thank you for giving us a break from grim and gritty costumes and demon bits. Thank you for not being ashamed to rock the spandex and celebrating those comic book heroes who actually enjoy wearing tights.

    Dear CoX refugees. Let me introduce you to CO's very own version of Clark Kent XD


    Actually jkn aside thats pretty on the nail Thundrax is an awesome guy just doesnt like the undead that much XD
    nepht_siggy_v6_by_nepht-dbbz19n.jpg
    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
    I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
  • visionstorm01visionstorm01 Posts: 564 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Posts like that make me think Thundrax doesn't want to see my character's screen... >.>
    ____________________________
  • arblaquearblaque Posts: 158 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Welcome Paragonian transplants. Our community is diverse and our motives are generally well meaning. The MMO community is less without CoX than it has been for 8 plus years but things will move on. We hope as many of you as will are willing to call CO your new home for a long time.
    Formerly known as NewAgeKnight in the Forums of old.
  • spyralpegacyonspyralpegacyon Posts: 383 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    My fellow refugees,

    First off, welcome! The game is fun, I hope you'll like it here!

    Secondly, don't let the forums get you down. For a good honest assessment as to the state of the game and where we're headed, read canadascott's State of the Game post. Its good stuff.

    Thirdly, for good chat and helpful advice join the 'CoX' channel. I'd say turn off Zone chat, but then you'd miss the occasional Lee Tosi antics.

    Fourthly, trailturtle's a good community rep. He's occasionally on CoX too.

    Fifthly, please say 'yes please' to the foundry kinda-sorta petition thread.

    Lastly, enjoy yourselves. And if you need help, feel free to look up orange fairies leaving rainbow trails. ;)
    tumblr_moni7tHVoq1rzu2xzo1_500.gif
  • titotito333999titotito333999 Posts: 196 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Dear CoX refugees, pray with us... Hmmmm I got nothing... have fun hehe.
    _______________________________________________

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    This was awesome while it lasted
    _______________________________________________
  • lotusabstractlotusabstract Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    valasqua wrote: »
    I have a lifetime sub to TSW, and I think it's a fantastic game. But it doesn't allow for a breadth of character concepts the way CO does. So I'm in both for now.

    Agreed. I've read many reviews & it seems a lot of people
    enjoy this game. Gamers are divided on it but it looks like
    a lot of fun to me & I like the fact that it made an attempt
    at an original idea in a Modern RPG. I'm probably going to
    get a group together to all buy & play the game at the same
    time & enjoy it as much as I can. Although I think in the long
    run it'll go the same route as CoX (& maybe CO). Sometimes
    I think the pay to play games have an edge over free to play
    at least in terms of content, etc, so might as well enjoy the
    pay to play features of TSE before it turns into another
    lock box festival.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • gavinrunebladegavinruneblade Posts: 3,781 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    I don't know if anyone noticed but I think a lot of CoX
    ppl went to The Secret World instead. I really hate the way
    CO was abandoned so quickly after release so that STO
    could be produced. CO was to become the Marvel MOO,
    but Marvel sold out to Disney. CO was to come to the
    Xbox 360, but they didn't do enough forward thinking
    about how to get that to work. They should have done
    a PS3 instead. Filled with empty promises & broken
    dreams so far, but I'm still gonna take a crack at it &
    hope the remaining 2 developers can come through
    with a miracle.:redface:

    The Cape Radio's DJ Templar broadcast last night from Secret World. He had like 4 people in game with him. Then DJ Anarchy got on in Champions (from The Minefield), it was late (still going at 1am PST) and she had like 12. Last week, before CoX shutdown one of DJ Pheonix's shows from WestSide we had like 20 people dancing for over an hour.

    Granted that's just one CoX community, but I know that in STO the paragon expeditionary fleet has picked up like 10+ new people. I've seen at least a dozen supergroups from Virtue server here in Millennium city. And that's just from one server, I don't know the whole CoX universe haha.

    Pretty safe to say most of us came here.
  • lotusabstractlotusabstract Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    The Cape Radio's DJ Templar broadcast last night from Secret World. He had like 4 people in game with him. Then DJ Anarchy got on in Champions (from The Minefield), it was late (still going at 1am PST) and she had like 12. Last week, before CoX shutdown one of DJ Pheonix's shows from WestSide we had like 20 people dancing for over an hour.

    Granted that's just one CoX community, but I know that in STO the paragon expeditionary fleet has picked up like 10+ new people. I've seen at least a dozen supergroups from Virtue server here in Millennium city. And that's just from one server, I don't know the whole CoX universe haha.

    Pretty safe to say most of us came here.


    I'm not saying that CoX didn't come here, just saying there was
    a massive thread of CoXxer refugees posting on TSW. Nobody said
    anything bad about CO. Though I wish the CoX stuff would be ported
    to CO and/or Villains Content + Sidekick design system were added
    as was originally promised before Cryptic dropped the ball & ran
    as fast as possible to Star Trek..lol.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • seismecaseismeca Posts: 47 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    The Cape Radio's DJ Templar broadcast last night from Secret World. He had like 4 people in game with him. Then DJ Anarchy got on in Champions (from The Minefield), it was late (still going at 1am PST) and she had like 12. Last week, before CoX shutdown one of DJ Pheonix's shows from WestSide we had like 20 people dancing for over an hour.

    Granted that's just one CoX community, but I know that in STO the paragon expeditionary fleet has picked up like 10+ new people. I've seen at least a dozen supergroups from Virtue server here in Millennium city. And that's just from one server, I don't know the whole CoX universe haha.

    Pretty safe to say most of us came here.

    The night (or morning?) CoH shut off, the City players who were moving to TSW met with Radio Gaia (TSW's equivalent of Cape Radio) at Kingsmouth

    There were a little more than 4
  • gavinrunebladegavinruneblade Posts: 3,781 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    seismeca wrote: »
    The night (or morning?) CoH shut off, the City players who were moving to TSW met with Radio Gaia (TSW's equivalent of Cape Radio) at Kingsmouth

    There were a little more than 4

    Coolness. I've heard they're getting a warm welcome over there. I tried the game and it was too bleak and depressing, not my thing. But really glad to see the community is open. =)
  • selpheaselphea Posts: 1,229 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    To be fair, given the number of dark/emo themed characters here, I wouldn't be surprised a portion of CoH was the same way and would fit right into TSW =P

    I'm spending my hiatus from CO on TSW, myself. I don't care much for the setting as long as it's fleshed out well and the game is fun.
  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    When I have a hiatus from CO I spend it in STO ....used to spend it in CoX but a nasty man named Kim took that away from me :<
    nepht_siggy_v6_by_nepht-dbbz19n.jpg
    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
    I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
  • rianfrostrianfrost Posts: 578 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    well, tsw had some bigger names going over, like kali/bellastrega and marcian tobay, though bella does play here too. I can see people going with them as well. Tsw seems interesting, and I am a big h.p. lovecraft fan. but no martial arts skillset=no rian. my entertainment must contain kicking people in the head. and again, not so much a refugee here as a part timer who got turned fulltime.
  • vikaernesvikaernes Posts: 137 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    seismeca wrote: »
    The night (or morning?) CoH shut off, the City players who were moving to TSW met with Radio Gaia (TSW's equivalent of Cape Radio) at Kingsmouth

    There were a little more than 4

    I was in that screenshot :D it was a very impressive display of people coming over.
  • visionstorm01visionstorm01 Posts: 564 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    seismeca wrote: »
    The night (or morning?) CoH shut off, the City players who were moving to TSW met with Radio Gaia (TSW's equivalent of Cape Radio) at Kingsmouth

    There were a little more than 4

    Damn, I missed that. Been playing GW2 lately, plus spent this weekend in CO. Still, that screen shot reflects the impression I got from all the CoX posts I saw at the TSW boards when I posted there regularly. I haven't even seen TSW's latest issue yet. Playing 3 games at once is hard...
    ____________________________
  • vitalityprimevitalityprime Posts: 478 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    seismeca wrote: »
    The night (or morning?) CoH shut off, the City players who were moving to TSW met with Radio Gaia (TSW's equivalent of Cape Radio) at Kingsmouth

    There were a little more than 4

    I guess I'm different than most.

    I don't play MMO's just for the sake of playing MMO's...I play for the genre.

    I can play another MMO during the same time I'm playing a superhero genre MMO...but I can't just stop playing CoH and then go play a drastically different genre MMO to take it's place. I need something to fill that superhero genre void.

    I figured most of CoH players would be coming over here because of this.
    _________
    VARIANT



    "Nearly all men can withstand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."

    -Abraham Lincoln-
  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Dear CoX refugees.

    Enjoy your time here. And thank you for giving us a break from grim and gritty costumes and demon bits. Thank you for not being ashamed to rock the spandex and celebrating those comic book heroes who actually enjoy wearing tights.

    Hmm! Hmm!

    Hmm hmm hmm!

    Hmm!
    biffsig.jpg
  • xcaligaxxcaligax Posts: 1,096 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Dear CoX refugees.

    Enjoy your time here. And thank you for giving us a break from grim and gritty costumes and demon bits. Thank you for not being ashamed to rock the spandex and celebrating those comic book heroes who actually enjoy wearing tights.

    Dear CoX refugees.

    1: Wear more power armor
    2: Tights are nice, but with power armor
    3: Power armored tights
    4: Use a cape with your power armor
    5: Refer to #1
    6: Please don't be another half-demon vampire angelic werewolf ninja robot with a dark past that you were so powerful that they kicked you out of hell at lvl 6, so that means that satan is lvl 4.

    7: Power armor.
  • visionstorm01visionstorm01 Posts: 564 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    I guess I'm different than most.

    I don't play MMO's just for the sake of playing MMO's...I play for the genre.

    I can play another MMO during the same time I'm playing a superhero genre MMO...but I can't just stop playing CoH and then go play a drastically different genre MMO to take it's place. I need something to fill that superhero genre void.

    I figured most of CoH players would be coming over here because of this.

    They were probably after the awesome story and atmosphere (if you're into dark, gritty, modern horror fantasy with secret societies and conspiracy theory settings).
    ____________________________
  • itsbrou#5396 itsbrou Posts: 1,777 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    I'll tell you to have fun however you want. We have enough things to do at the moment where you can put down one thing and focus on something different. Most importantly: don't grit your teeth through a mission you don't like.
    Brou in Cryptic games.
  • seismecaseismeca Posts: 47 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    I guess I'm different than most.

    I don't play MMO's just for the sake of playing MMO's...I play for the genre.

    I can play another MMO during the same time I'm playing a superhero genre MMO...but I can't just stop playing CoH and then go play a drastically different genre MMO to take it's place. I need something to fill that superhero genre void.

    I figured most of CoH players would be coming over here because of this.


    Considering a much larger amount of people DID come to CO I wouldn't say you were "different than most"

    And hell, I was the same way. When the announcement came out I came over here, recreated my characters, sunk about 40 bucks into extra costume parts and tried to keep playing. Because I enjoyed my tenure in super heroism and wanted to continue it.

    But just like you, I play for the genre, not the MMO. And CO is a completely different genre than CoH. Which is why I can't play it.

    For me, personally, I'll take one for the team and go with the well done paranormal/modern mmo over the mediocre super hero one. Even if I really really really love RPing as a super hero/villain. The blanket of depression and stagnation over this game's development cycle is too much (and thats funny considering the first area in TSW is an island literally blanketed by a fog of depression and stagnation) I just don't feel like playing a game where the players literally have to start a kickstarter to get them to do anything.
  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    xcaligax wrote: »
    Dear CoX refugees.

    1: Wear more power armor
    2: Tights are nice, but with power armor
    3: Power armored tights
    4: Use a cape with your power armor
    5: Refer to #1
    6: Please don't be another half-demon vampire angelic werewolf ninja robot with a dark past that you were so powerful that they kicked you out of hell at lvl 6, so that means that satan is lvl 4.

    7: Power armor.

    You forgot rule # Real 1:

    Be so badass that you don't need to hide behind power armor.

    :P
    biffsig.jpg
  • keikomystkeikomyst Posts: 626 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    If you're all jumping right into being Gold players, feel free to join the CO Builds channel so we can chat about your character's concept, powers and whatnot!

    I myself specialize in the less 'super' powersets like Martial Arts, Munitions, Archery and I dabble in Power Armor, but there's people in CO Builds who will help you build just about anything and make sure its at least effective out there in the open world.
  • gavinrunebladegavinruneblade Posts: 3,781 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    xcaligax wrote: »
    Dear CoX refugees.

    1: Wear more power armor
    2: Tights are nice, but with power armor
    3: Power armored tights
    4: Use a cape with your power armor
    5: Refer to #1
    6: Please don't be another half-demon vampire angelic werewolf ninja robot with a dark past that you were so powerful that they kicked you out of hell at lvl 6, so that means that satan is lvl 4.

    7: Power armor.

    6a: please don't be another deity from the norse/celtic/egyptian/babylonian/mayan/chinese/japanese/roman/greek mythos who is so powerful that you personally created the entire world and yet still can't use any of your powers on that guy standing on the other side of the room because he's "out of range"
    6b: 6 and 6a are still just as valid if you're level 40 as if you are level 1
  • zahinderzahinder Posts: 2,382 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Welcome! I loved CoX and will miss it. And really hope Cryptic adopts some of the great ideas of CoX (FOUNDRY FOUNDRY FOUNDRY)

    Like Foundry. Ahem.
    I haven't been playing CO recently for a number of reasons (like GW2), but I'm telling you now, if CO gets Foundry (and it doesn't suck), I'll drop a Lifetime on Cryptic. Promise.


    As for The Secret World -- a great game. I think it's a touch thin on content, though, and a number of the things that's really good about the CoX experience and supers in general is utterly missing.

    I mean, you can't even change your build or height, let alone some of the fine-tuned far-ranging weirdness of CoX/CO. And no guild halls. Eh.
    Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH

    Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?

    Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?

    Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
  • seismecaseismeca Posts: 47 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Actually, in the last update they introduced a height slider.
  • twg042370twg042370 Posts: 592 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    The Secret World

    Urban fantasy? Eeeew!
    _________________
    Wait? Whaaaa..?
  • freakstreakfreakstreak Posts: 45 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    twg042370 wrote: »
    Urban fantasy? Eeeew!
    I think TSW is a nice enough game.........but not for the superhero fan.. People who went there will eventually miss the superhero feeling, and eventually find a home here..
    witchcraft.jpg

  • kojirohellfirekojirohellfire Posts: 2,075 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    6a: please don't be another deity from the norse/celtic/egyptian/babylonian/mayan/chinese/japanese/roman/greek mythos who is so powerful that you personally created the entire world and yet still can't use any of your powers on that guy standing on the other side of the room because he's "out of range"
    6b: 6 and 6a are still just as valid if you're level 40 as if you are level 1

    Hey buddy, you have a problem with me wanting to remake the Still-Heart in CO?

    Granted, Osiris wasn't exactly the creator god of the Egyptian Pantheon (that honor went to either Ra or Ptah depending on which myth you're reading) but still....

    :mad:
  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    6a: please don't be another deity from the norse/celtic/egyptian/babylonian/mayan/chinese/japanese/roman/greek mythos who is so powerful that you personally created the entire world and yet still can't use any of your powers on that guy standing on the other side of the room because he's "out of range"
    6b: 6 and 6a are still just as valid if you're level 40 as if you are level 1

    I think some people are misunderstanding Gavin. I get were he is coming from. I have seen a lot of toons who are like called Thor or Hades or what not and are level 6 yet their badly written bio states they are OMNIPRESENT...yet get one shotted by small pink wolves called Mr Snuggly .

    This has been happening since the dawn of mmo's hench why I came up with Nephthys all those years ago..a video game character that thinks shes a God but is in fact the biggest idiot ever to walk the digital realms. In short a mockery of all these level 6 deity toons that you see in the club.
    nepht_siggy_v6_by_nepht-dbbz19n.jpg
    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
    I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
  • kojirohellfirekojirohellfire Posts: 2,075 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Funny, because not even the original mythological gods were omnipresent (with the possible exception of Zeus). Seems too many people conflate deities these days with the Judeo-Christian concept.

    But if that's all he meant, no harm done. I wasn't entirely serious in my challenge, thus the smiley.
  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Funny, because not even the original mythological gods were omnipresent (with the possible exception of Zeus). Seems too many people conflate deities these days with the Judeo-Christian concept.

    But if that's all he meant, no harm done. I wasn't entirely serious in my challenge, thus the smiley.

    The single most common deity you will see in CO is Anubis. This disturbs me as I cant for the love of all things holy remember having that many kids XD

    I must be really crappy at naming babies if I called them all the same name :/


    *edit* the only one I admit to is the small purple one with the long arms cause he's cool :D
    nepht_siggy_v6_by_nepht-dbbz19n.jpg
    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
    I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
  • photonstormphotonstorm Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Hello guys,

    After 8.5 years of CoH, time to check Champions Online. :smile:
  • kojirohellfirekojirohellfire Posts: 2,075 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    nepht wrote: »
    The single most common deity you will see in CO is Anubis. This disturbs me as I cant for the love of all things holy remember having that many kids XD

    I must be really crappy at naming babies if I called them all the same name :/


    *edit* the only one I admit to is the small purple one with the long arms cause he's cool :D

    Oh, oh... I get what you mean.

    Well, Anubis is a pretty cool god. It's no wonder so many players would want to emulate him.
  • ashensnowashensnow Posts: 2,048 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Do you guys mean OMNIPOTENT ?

    If so, yeah it can be funny to see a bio where the player has decided to make his character so.

    'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
  • vikaernesvikaernes Posts: 137 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    I think TSW is a nice enough game.........but not for the superhero fan.. People who went there will eventually miss the superhero feeling, and eventually find a home here..

    If you're into the tights wearing superhero stuff, no TSW will not give you what you need. If you are like me, and the modern setting, cosmetic visual appearance, freeform builder, and RP support was your main attraction to CO, then TSW is all of that and more.
This discussion has been closed.