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Now is the time for SG bases
seazombie64
Posts: 114 Arc User
Since vehicles have (finally) arrived, for better or worse, many people would like SG bases to be implemented. Other games have them, some good and some bad. I would still like to see improvements to hideouts, but don't expect much there. SG bases would be a wonderful improvement.
I hereby want to get a movement started for SG bases, so come on wheels, let's start squeaking! We need to match the energy and sheer numbers of the foundry squeaky wheels or we will get a foundry before we get SG bases. I am not putting down the people who want a foundry, but speaking for myself, I do not want one or care if they ever implement one, I didn't want vehicles, but we have them, but I DO want SG bases. Everyone enjoy your vehicles, but let me (and many others) get the SG base we want next.
I hereby want to get a movement started for SG bases, so come on wheels, let's start squeaking! We need to match the energy and sheer numbers of the foundry squeaky wheels or we will get a foundry before we get SG bases. I am not putting down the people who want a foundry, but speaking for myself, I do not want one or care if they ever implement one, I didn't want vehicles, but we have them, but I DO want SG bases. Everyone enjoy your vehicles, but let me (and many others) get the SG base we want next.
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Go to any open instance with your SG, look at each other and say "niiiice" then get on with your lives.
Use Supergroup chat and custom channels to communicate anywhere in the game world, you know
just like in real life world full of telecommunications.
Some imagination is required to be a pretend superhero.
Now team support vehicles that actually group travel/drop off would be cool.
To the Alert Bus
Not as expected vehicles..
I assume we will get something similar with SG bases, so...no, atleast until Cryptic can hire a dedicated team, so lets buy more keys
.
I support "Sell Z-store items individually" & Japan Zone
so instead of saying no, there's no need ill just use my imagination to make up a base for my sg how about you pretend to not troll the forums for a change and actually contribute to the thread?
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In loving memory of AngelofCaine.
Hundreds of super groups have come and gone without needing bases to hide away in.
Hundreds more will come and go and bases won't be an issue.
No new bases for you.
UNTIL building, City Hall, Champions HQ, most of the powerhouses all over the game, are all
empty almost all the time. There's your base. Use it or lose it.
no im not mad, i just find it utterly annoying that instead of wasting your time in-game you're wasting mine in here. ktnxbai
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In loving memory of AngelofCaine.
Wow..it seems one of us in this thread is mad. SG bases WOULD have some functionality. SG's could team up to earn improvements to their base, which encourages teamwork. Enhancements earned to improve a base could be more shared bank space, a danger room with more than 3 options, a teleporter like in the Unity HQ, a free tailor, a social instance free from trolls, and probably many other things.
You don't like the idea? I get that, but there are people who DO like the idea. Go find a thread that supports an idea you like. Sadly, when it comes to bases, I feel like Flechus and gamehobo, they most likely won't it well if they ever do it at all, but it still doesn't stop me and others from wanting it.
I don't think you get the point, 1000s of players have come and gone without the need of hideouts, but it's still a great implement and expands the Champions World with more possibilities. Private SG Hideout would be much better than a random public building where randoms can interrupt.
And, it couldbe used as the base of maby SG missions? Working together to gather resources to expand the base? There's a lot of possibilities.
/signed.
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In loving memory of AngelofCaine.
-Type(theme and appearance of the base)
-what could be inside the base(besides furniture and all that type of stuff)
I'm sure there is much more that can be put into an SG base, but these are all the ideas I have for now on the matter.
but /signed for SG bases
Consolidate currency!
Munitions additions
Petition to take in game report spam function out
Why not to do surveys and free offers
[SIGPIC]http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd175/Fifer71/mandrakesigmark3.jpg[/SIGPIC]
/signed
Me want.
/signed.
For details, see this thread: http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=178861
Then again, if they put it in the Z-Store, then I'm sure they can squeeze some dollars out of roleplayers for it
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
I think you kind of miss the point of STO Starbases, they arent static RP venues, they are pretty much the foundation of a lot of the endgame content in STO. You want the best ship? Gotta join a Fleet, level up your Starbase. A lot of the new content added to STO this year is built around them, and right now STO is transitioning away from PUG based Alert type content towards more Fleet based content. Unless you really love PUGs and Alerts, that's a good thing :biggrin:
Now it's not the time for SG bases. Not until theres: recources, people and actual intentions to make SG bases an actual working part of Champions. Not just something like...Vehicles were. Or Hideouts, nice idea, but not enough customizing, making them feeling invidual, not everyones mom likes to paint in basement.
Having bases just be, more space for us to bank stuff in them. No. Nope. Bad.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
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Some people have suggested tying some sort of content to a SG base. I'd rather just have new content, even if it has to be paid for, than gate it behind something like a SG base.
I know a lot of players that are proponents of having super group bases implemented into CO are people from CoH and envision CO having a SG base system similar to CoH's when they talk about wanting bases added to this game. Being that I'm another person from that game, I think I can say with a certain amount of surety that trying to add something like that to this game would be a fiasco that it's doubtful many would want given how it would likely turn out.
Adding something like CoH's SG base system would likely require a vast amount of work hours meaning that other aspects of the game would have to be ignored more than they already are. Having a SG base is a neat idea but, there is a lot more that I'd rather see added to CO before I'd even want them to hint that they're adding something like that.
Based on current and previous decisions on the part of CO's devs, I find it highly unlikely that something like this would be given away for free. It would possibly cost huge amounts of questionite and/or zen with zen being the likely method of earning a SG base with a group only getting the most bare bones base initially and then having to spend even more questionite and/or zen to upgrade it further. Even with it being a cooperative effort between all members of a super group, it would likely be fairly expensive and having it be cooperative puts forth a whole host of other complications.
What if one member makes a huge investment into a group's base and then is later expelled from the group? Should they get back everything they paid for? If so, would they be reimbursed in zen and/or questionite? Would they recieve unlocks that could be used for the next group they join? Or would they just be S.O.L.? My money is on that they'd get nothing back for their money/time investment as that would mean they'd have to earn it all over again for the next group which means more money for Cryptic but, also means huge amounts of resentment among the player base and could potentially create large rifts among the community.
There's also the trend Cryptic is showing where they work on a project, create huge amounts of hype for it among the players, and then leave it unfinished, or worse, alter it in ways that creates resentment among the players. Doing so with something like a SG base stands a good chance to cause an uproar similar to the one going on now about the changes to hawkwing jets.
Finally, there's the consideration that one of the biggest reasons some people want a SG base is because they liked to edit bases on other games like CoH. Even on that game, where it didn't cost you actual money, it would sometimes cause resentment among members of a group because, usually, only one person would be allowed to edit the base while others wanted to make additions or changes and were left unable to. I was a base editor on CoH and while I never advertised my services on the forums, I was often told that my work was on par with, if not better than, the majority of the people that did. While there, I made bases that were meant to be schools, hospitals, nightclubs, restaurants, houses, military compounds, warehouses, laboratories, and a hotel/casino. While I often enjoyed the results of my work, I considered the work itself to be a long, boring, and tedious task that revolved around dragging and dropping thousands upon thousands of items into a room before running off to grind out or buy more prestige to keep at it and have a hard time understanding why that would be enjoyable to someone.
This isn't to say that I think SG bases should never be implemented into CO. I just think that it would be a very expensive item for a very niche part of the playerbase that would require enough work that the devs would have to neglect other, more important, aspects of the game to work on it. There's also the fact that, given their track record of leaving things unfinished, I'd want them to complete additions that have already been made before I'd even consider spending any time and/or resources of my own to try to acquire a SG base.
Personally, I'd much rather have them finish work on the additions to hideouts given that it looks like a large part of that project is already completed and they simply have to put the finishing touches on it. Once that is done, along with more end game content (A few more lairs at the very least would be nice), and they come out with at least one 8 slot vehicle that doesn't look like crap, I'd be happy to vote for SG bases. As it stands now though, I think it'd just deprive us of more things that could be enjoyed by the community as a whole with no real good reason to add it.
What kind of new content? New levelling zone? We already have enough levelling content to get to the level cap 3 times over without repeating any, do we really need more? Endgame zone? Endgame is all about farming, so... what are you going to farm in your new zone? You really want a zone which is full of anti social loners putting their heads down and grinding as efficiently as possible? New Alerts? No thanks. More challenging multiplayer content? Like Gravitar and UNTIL Carrier Defense, you queue for 10 minutes, you join a PUG, you discover there is no healer, you fail. Challenging content needs planning, needs people who can teach the new players, needs new players who will listen to the vets, you don't get that with PUGs.
I never played CoX, my expectations are based on the Starbase system that was added to Star Trek Online earlier this year.
STO bases involve a large investment of Dilithium (grindonite). For investing in base projects players recieve Fleet Marks, an even rarer more valuable currency used to buy endgame stuff. Investing Dilithium to get Fleet Marks is a good deal, one of the common complaints about the system is that many players don't even get the chance to put their grindonite in the pot, if a project starts while you are offline you are SOL.
STO Players keep their earned Fleet Marks regardless in that situation.
The STO base system is nothing like that. Nowhere near that kind of customisation, and all the grinding is aimed at adding functionality. Higher tier bases get higher tier missions, better stuff in the store, top tier ships.
The planned hideout additions were a crafting room and a Powerhouse room, both irrelevant with the changes to the crafting and levelling systems, those will never get finished.
I don't care about how things work in STO. And I certainly don't want the endgame content locked for people who didn't join a SG with a large base. :rolleyes:
I too share the concern that they would be poorly implemented, but I can hope. I believe any addition to the game is a good thing, even if it comes out not as perfect as it could be. I understand people's issues with the vehicles, even if I am not interested in vehicles. I enjoyed alerts for a little while, but now they have grown stale on me.
Someone mentioned that bases would only appeal to a small segment of the playerbase, I can't argue with that but my point is, so what? Many things already in the game appeal to a segment of the PB, like PvP (which I don't care about), RP instances (again, I don't care), vehicles (not I). So many people are clamoring for a foundry, what percentage of the PB would like that? Same with endgame content, ask 10 people what that means and you will get 10 different answers.
Anything that is added would have it's proponents and detractors. I think the last thing we got that was really good was the powerhouse overhaul. It was very well done, but there is a segment that doesn't care about the new features we got there either. In the end I think this is just an intellectual exercise, because I highly doubt we will get SG bases, or a foundry for that matter. I would also like to see bug fixes, new powersets (water and sonic please!), a new zone to go with a level cap increase and many other things. It doesn't hurt anyone to air our ideas and get some discussion going.
Thats a perfect example of why they should not implement SG bases or a new zone.
It wasn't well done, it was a huge waste of time and poorly designed.
Theatre caters to 80 players that already had venues for costume contests, and the new venue is about 480,000 wasted polygons for chairs nobody can sit in, stupid backdrops that make taking screenshots meaningless. Lame designer puts the tailor out back, like changing costumes is something you really need to hide away from the world to do.
Costume contests regurlary waste an hour of standing around waiting.
Would have made sense to let us edit costume while we stood idle, instead looking for
other MMOs to spend money on in second window.
We used to face each other at costume contests, could actually see other people's costumes while standing around with our thumbs up our rear ends waiting for the same people to win the CCs over and over.
Now? You look at the back of people's heads. Great design.
Then theres the PVP arena, that nobody wants to use because PVP is dead and being jammed into
the powerhouse arena cuts you off from everything that is happening in zone chat, so you can forget about
having an interesting gaming experience and feeling like there are other players in the game world.
That entire room is wasted time and money. Its a nice looking room though, just pointless.
There's the testing rooms: loading screen, loading screen, 1 minute test, exit loading screen,
loading screen, retcon, repeat until you puke.
That design plus two months of mandatory retcons cost Cryptic my sub.
Then theres the Powerhouse itself where the awful "shove everyone into the central sphincter" design has noobs leaving with out gear on a contstant basis because they can't see who they are supposed to talk to through the clutter of "Super Sexy Demon Girl + Super group name longer than the Twilight series" text over everyone's head.
To make the design more inneffecient they added a damned useless role icon to further clutter the newbs vision.
Then there's poor decision to have some trainers remove powers and let you retcon, and the
others just let you screw up your build without any warning that you
are burying that travel power you hate under expensive powers and ranks.
Thats like having a Coke machine, where one button gives you a can, and
the other just sprays it in your face without warning.
Powerhouse stands as a huge example of where Cryptic took it on themselves to add features nobody wanted and to screw up months of work by not once thinking ahead of how it would be implemented. Seriously, "Pile all players in the same 15 foot circle to create a big unreadable pile of text over everyone's head and covering everyone's costumes completely obscuring the NPCs all noobs must speak to", was an informed and planned design decision?
Well, maybe you should care about STO, because the stuff that happens there usually makes its way over here. STO got STFs, CO got Alerts a few months later, STO got Dilithium, CO got Questionite, STO made a lot of money from lockboxes and starships, hay guess wut gais
Locking content? You wouldn't want STO Base defense missions without an organised group, they are not PUGable, they are group based missions with a high difficulty that requires teamwork, CO has no means of delivering that sort of play experience right now.
And what exactly do you want from endgame content? In STO, you farm, build your base, gain access to higher tier loot and missions.Take away the base, its just a gear treadmill like every other MMO I ever quit. You want that instead? What exactly do you want to be able to purchace with the proceeds of your endgame grind, that's really what it comes down to. STO is somewhat unique in that the endgame grind isn't just about getting more uber, its about building something to share and getting more uber as a side benefit :biggrin:
But as for now, you could just clear out large Open World Areas and use them as your base for a while like Area 51.
But I realise it is not the same as having your own SG base.
/Signed - On the condition that the Community is listened to, when making these.
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I hold little hope we will ever get SG bases, but it doesn't mean I don't want one.
Of course they complain. It's a system that locks them out of the more valuable items. I'd rather we not introduce that here.
Based on what you already said, I'd rather not have that system at all so that's small comfort.
The system used in CoH was aimed at functionality as well including upgrades for your medical bays, teleportation rooms that would send you to all zones in the game, storage for crafting salvage and enhancements for your powers, and PvP items like base turrets and stealth suppressors as well as the generators and control items needed to run it all. The problem was that for a long time, it was so cost prohibitive that most SGs never even bothered. I think that's what would happen here.
Not one hundred percent accurate. I can't speak for other players but, I think it'd be nice to have a private room I could use to test powers that wouldn't require going to one of the less populated zones and there are times of the day when you do get a bonus to your fusing if you use a crafting table. It's not much, I know but, I'd still rather see Cryptic actually complete a project before moving on to their next idea if they expect players to keep buying the goods they roll out for us to purchase.
Sorry, wasn't trying to pick a fight :redface: . But if we can't do challenging team based content with PUGs, and you don't want to do it through an SG, then how should it be done?
Did I say they were being locked out? STO has many ways to earn Fleet Marks, putting Dilithium into Base projects is just one of the fastest. I was addressing your point about bases costing too much Questionite, the STO bases don't really cost anything in a sense, you put one currency in, you get another one back.
I guess I'm just not selling it very well
The problem with that is that we don't have anything that would require a new type of currency, have too many currencies already, and already have an issue with characters being severely overpowered. New items that make them evn more so would just make the matter worse.
Like I said, I'm all for bases. I just don't think there's many ways to implement them that wouldn't be very problematic and would really like to avoid future content expansions being locked behind them as well as think there's more things that should be completed before they start on that.
Not even remotely the same thing, TT is a 5 man instance, STO Starbase challenge missions are epic scale 20 man missions, could you put that together in /Zone?
True, but people keep asking for new content. If Cryptic add new endgame stuff that has the same rewards as the existing content then either players ignore the new stuff or the old stuff, whichever has the worse rewards. The only way to add new content like that is with a new currency and a new tier of gear, otherwise you just replace content instead of adding to it. That's why I'd like to see bases go hand in hand with a new zone or whatever, so your new endgame daily missions have some point other than "get better gear".
You think Cryptic haven't already planned for this? The current top currency is Silver Champions Recognition. Implies maybe that Gold Champs Recog could show up at some point, no? And what about the old UNITY building in RenCen? They got evicted months ago, what is going to go in there?
Also I seem to have given you the impression that all of STO's endgame is locked behind starbases, that is not the case. Lots of solo stuff and PUGable stuff there too, but the rewards of fleet membership are substantial - the best ships in the game and tough team based missions to use them in.
What you're saying you'd like sounds similar to the Incarnate Trials on CoH which revolved around 16 to 40 people grouping up in teams of 8 that were all joined together in a league to enter an instance where they would sometimes spread out to accomplish multiple simultaneous goals or converge to overcome one massive obstacle. It wasn't locked behind being in a specific super group. All it took was a little organizing on the part of the players before specific areas became hot spots for finding leagues to do trials with.
Well, this is now getting a bit off topic but, yes, I'd like to see some of the current content in this game replaced. Personally, I think the alert system was a huge mistake and should never have been implemented.
All it accomplishes is helping speed people through the game and pass up actual content so they can race to level cap and then complain about not having anything to do which is why I don't touch alerts until I'm already at level cap on a toon. I don't want to fall into that trap.
Rather than increasing the replayability, Cryptic has helped shorten the lifespan of their game by including alerts in it. I saw a similar thing happen in CoH when they added Architect Entertainment. People would farm it over and over until they reached level cap, would gear out their characters, and then would start the process over on another toon until they got bored of doing it at which point they'd leave the game because 'there wasn't anything to do.' This in turn resulted in the devs wasting time nerfing rewards in AE so people couldn't progress as quickly which would regularly cause raging among some of the players.
What was done with Therakiel's could easily be done on a much larger scale with multiple teams needing to accomplish goals at the same time rather than just individual players lining up to reflect light from one to the next.
With regards to rewards, I'd much rather see instances along the lines of Therakiel's that award larger amounts of resources, questionite, and perhaps giving an increased chance to drop mods and giving costume drops so we'd have a continuing sideways progression rather than an increasing power creep through giving out better gear since we're already grossly overpowered. I'd also like to see the difficulty of some of those instances be much more challenging than what we currently have, perhaps with players staying at level 40 and having level 45 NPCs in there in addition to mechanics that require teamwork so that players would want to team up to accomplish them. The problem with both of those things is that no one would play them. Why would they when they can just queue up for a couple alerts or dailies and get the same level of rewards?
Agreed completely, and like I said, you should care what happens in STO. That game had Alert type queues before CO did, and they were just as awful. With the recent Season 7 patch, those missions have had their rewards nerfed dramatically, while the shiny new content got even better payouts. The STO team have realised that rewarding people for avoiding playing the game is bad design, the new focus is Starbases and the new solo PVE season 7 content.
Edit: Derp, just checked again and the changes to rewards were changed back last week apparently due to player demand. So hooray for more boring pointless grind I guess, goodbye actual fun content with good rewards.
/signed , in fact I already suggested this sort of rebalancing of PVE rewards in the "Lets Take a Vote 2" thread :biggrin:
See, this is one of those times when players prove that they're not all that bright. After all... if they were, people would be paying to play their MMO instead of them griping about the rewards system of a free one.
It's not often that I think this but, sometimes, I think companies need to enact a policy that I like to call STFU.
If there's one thing I've learned from the various MMOs I've played, it's that players want to get their rewards as quicky as possible and will piss and moan incessantly and vocally about anything that decreases the rate they get those rewards at.
As I've pointed out earlier though, getting all those rewards tends to result in boredom on the part of the players who then leave a game in search of their next fix. Obviously, the owners of STO and CO don't want this so, they need to occasionally take a hard stance and enact the company policy of STFU. Really, it's too bad that they do seem to be fine with that policy and are just terrible at deciding when it should be used.
Would you be satisfied if a company implemented a policy of "We Refuse To Listen" ? Because if so, I have good news...
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Nah. Refusing to listen results in the devs thinking they know what they're doing too and they don't. The only way you're going to have a really sucessful game is with lots of communication between the devs and players, along with an interpreter since no one ever seems to know what the hell they're saying, let alone understand other people.
Actually, that is the irony of the situation. The original changes to the Dilithim reward system made it easier and more fun to farm. Apparently, Cryptic's metrics were showing that the average STO player was only refining about 3000 Dilithium/day, devs wanted to make it easier to get because Season 7 includes a big new Dilithium sink. So they put the big rewards on Fleet Actions (20 man story based PVE queues, nothing to do with Starbases) which are mostly fast and fun to play, but players are institutionalised, they just want the same old daily grind.
MMO players do not cope well with change, even when it basically gives them free money
Although it is depressing to see players shooting themselves in the foot like that, it doesn't bode well if you were hoping to see Alert daily rewards getting rebalanced to encourage people to actually play the game, you can be sure the CO team , and everyone else at Cryptic and Perfect World are watching STO closely, it is their flagship game right now.
And I wouldn't say Cryptic "refuse to listen", they might ignore the endless whining on the forums, but they are very responsive to their data and metrics :cool:
On topic: Bases are still a nifty idea I think, especially implemented STO style as part of an overall package of refocussing on story and meaningful PVE reform, which is how I got into this derail in the first place :biggrin:
So before I take CO seriously, I'm waiting for this feature, otherwise I'm holding back.
I'm with this guy, I want all the things!
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Plus bases could also come with there own skill trainers and power trainers and a teleporter that could send players to the starting area of any map zone. Maybe even if it were possibile there could be an emercancy beacon device that a player could activate when in need of help that could allow fellow supergroup members to teleport the that players exact location using the base teleporter.
Bases would also be fantastic for Role-Playing and immersion in game. They're a great idea.