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Game Damaging Flaws?
ghennkins
Posts: 0 Arc User
Hello, I'm a new player. I thought I'd point out some problems with this game before deleting the bookmark for CO's webpage.
1. The Hybrid F2P model is overall a large cause of many problems with this game... potentially. Because there is no dialogue between players and developers, all anyone can do is guess as to why CO is a nearly abandon-ware mmo.
How is it so detrimental? It divides the playerbase. Not really into 3 groups so much as 2 and 1/2. True customization, this games biggest selling point, is reserved to only paying players. Silver players pick the best handful of ATs and ignore the rest. Who wants to play as Robin when you could be Superman? The playing field was purposely made uneven, and purposely made pay2win. I've played many, many, mmos. I can only think of maybe 3-4 that have a hybrid f2p model and that's probably the biggest reason why. It just causes problems when you divide the community into Gold vs Silver.
I don't think it's too long a reach to say it's the 'Gold' players that could be responsible for CO's stagnation. I've lurked around on these forums and read the comments. For a MMO forum, its unusually slow, which is a great sign. It's also 90% negativity and whining. Think about it, you've divided your player base into 2 groups and you have to make both happy but there's already imbalance between the two groups. It's near impossible to make both groups happy. Look at this Vehicle update and the backlash.
But anyway, what my point is, which of the two groups, Gold or Silver, is most likely to throw a fit, go on a smear campaign, Cryptic bash, unsub, or even take legal action against PWE and Cryptic? Probably the people with money on the line. So what does Cryptic do? I read a few posts on these boards that have already answered what they'll do. It usually goes something like this:
"After 3 years, this game is nearly unchanged."
"Expect the game to remain in it's current state till it closes the doors."
You're probably ready to flame me by now. But it's you guys I feel sorry for the most. Dedicated fans ignored. You know how much funds you've dumped on this game and you've seen the returns from your investment. You know when the last major update was, the last new area, the last costume pack. Quite frankly, I don't know why you're still subbed by this point. Hope is an ugly mistress sometimes.
This is the 2nd Cryptic MMO I've quit all in the span of about 3 weeks. I feel I should point out that STO devs do comment on their forums and they are getting updates. Both games have been in development for the same amount of time. Why do you think that is? Could it be because subbing/life-ing STO doesn't split the playerbase? Maybe...
2. Take a look at this link:
http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=132204
Well put together bit of info. it is basically encouraging people to sub/life. But the numbers say that's far from what Cryptic wants. They stand to make more profit from Silvers. If you still think the Hybrid model works or that your sub means squat to Cryptic, or you're still delusional thinking your sub is saving the game, well, that post proves it doesn't. To me it proves they'd rather everyone was Silver. When everyone is 'Silver', there wouldn't be a 'Silver' anymore. It would be one way to level the playing field.
3. This next part might anger the fanbois that still haven't noticed all their money has been going to STO/NWN. I'm a truly 'free' player. I won't spend a dime ever on this game. Well I wouldn't if I didn't quit. Doesn't that speak volumes? Quitting a free mmo.
Anyway, Cryptic mmos have a pretty big draw in for people like me. The Dil/Q exchange. It's one of the reasons I tried both these games. It's better handled in STO, but I'm here to talk about CO.
In CO, earning Q is the most grindy, please-stop-my-brain-cells-from-committing-seppku experience in an mmo I've ever played. I should point out I played RO for 3 years ages ago. It works decently for STO but it's down right horrible in CO. Here's why.
-Q is worth less in CO. It took CO to show me Dil sinks are actually great for freebies
-It takes hours to reach the 8k Q cap in this game compared to STO
-Everything in the C-Store worth aiming for is around 900-1100cp. Or $9-$11 dollars US.
Do the math, we get 2 hero slots. It takes nearly 3-4 hours to reach the Q cap on both heroes. Each day you could attempt to trade your Q for 190-210 Q per cp... or is it Zen? Anyway, that's ~80cp a day. About 2 weeks for 1 item valued at 1100cp. W o w.
Also keep in mind you can do nothing else short of off loading vendor trash during those 3-4 hours and that 3-4 hours for a casual player is a hefty chunk of time. In other words, you can't play this game truly for free unless you truly don't give a care about anything the c-store offers. Or you enjoy 'working' for way less than minimum wage, which is what Q farming in CO is.
In a way, it pushes people towards the sub/life option, but the Silver option makes more profit? it's like they can't decide what to do. Pick one. There's only one option left since the other failed.
Why are the prices so insanely high? Yes I said 'insanely'. You can buy Guild Wars 2 for something like $50 and have full access to the game and it's servers forever. Why is CO so special that it's exempt from the standard pricing of games? I could go to Steam right now and make a list of amazing games for the same price as the FF slot. Or are F2P MMOs for kids with no grasp of how money works or what it's worth? Is that why gamble boxes are so profitable?
There is one last core problem with Crpyic's mmos. Remember those horrible shovel-ware games EA use to churn out or slap the latest hyped movie title on a cartridge and milk people of their money? I believe that's the type of mmos Crypic makes. Pump them out fast and unfinished, unpolished, unrefined. Then, over promise and under deliver. I read an interview with Crpytic's vice pres? Whoever 'Jack' is. In one he said WoW simply set the bar to high and raised everyone expectations. For one thing, CO is a F2P mmo now so no need to be afraid of big bad WoW.
Another thing, don't expect to compete if you don't put in the same amount of effort or more than your competitors.
WoW was in development for 4-5 years.
CO was in development for 1.5 years.
Shovel-ware MMO.
An interesting fact, the last W word in WoW is censored on these forums. That's kinda funny.
I suppose some of you probably think a true free player is worthless or anything I say has no weight. I promise I won't tell all my friends to avoid Cryptic mmos, or go on Youtube/Reddit bashing them, or make threads like these on the near endless number of gaming forums on the internet, or.... getting the point yet? I'm happy I could open your mind today. No charge.
No I'm not threatening. Unless I'm asked, I won't ever mention CO.
My advice to them would be quality over quantity. Go back in time, scrap STO because it's a blatant Trek IP coat tail ride MMO. Then scrap NWN. CO is you're best game and the one you've done the best work with. Ignoring it, especially with the steady flow of hugely successful super hero movies and the closing of the CoH doors... gosh what is there I can say?
Bye bye! Don't worry about the door hitting me on the way out, it doesn't have hinges or a door knob and is kinda just propped against the wall gathering dust. Good looking door though.
For everyone that actually read all this mess. Well done. I hope some of this was food for thought. If I upset anyone, I'm sure this will be forgotten by tomorrow. Perhaps it was more for me to get some things off my chest before finally leaving. Take care.
1. The Hybrid F2P model is overall a large cause of many problems with this game... potentially. Because there is no dialogue between players and developers, all anyone can do is guess as to why CO is a nearly abandon-ware mmo.
How is it so detrimental? It divides the playerbase. Not really into 3 groups so much as 2 and 1/2. True customization, this games biggest selling point, is reserved to only paying players. Silver players pick the best handful of ATs and ignore the rest. Who wants to play as Robin when you could be Superman? The playing field was purposely made uneven, and purposely made pay2win. I've played many, many, mmos. I can only think of maybe 3-4 that have a hybrid f2p model and that's probably the biggest reason why. It just causes problems when you divide the community into Gold vs Silver.
I don't think it's too long a reach to say it's the 'Gold' players that could be responsible for CO's stagnation. I've lurked around on these forums and read the comments. For a MMO forum, its unusually slow, which is a great sign. It's also 90% negativity and whining. Think about it, you've divided your player base into 2 groups and you have to make both happy but there's already imbalance between the two groups. It's near impossible to make both groups happy. Look at this Vehicle update and the backlash.
But anyway, what my point is, which of the two groups, Gold or Silver, is most likely to throw a fit, go on a smear campaign, Cryptic bash, unsub, or even take legal action against PWE and Cryptic? Probably the people with money on the line. So what does Cryptic do? I read a few posts on these boards that have already answered what they'll do. It usually goes something like this:
"After 3 years, this game is nearly unchanged."
"Expect the game to remain in it's current state till it closes the doors."
You're probably ready to flame me by now. But it's you guys I feel sorry for the most. Dedicated fans ignored. You know how much funds you've dumped on this game and you've seen the returns from your investment. You know when the last major update was, the last new area, the last costume pack. Quite frankly, I don't know why you're still subbed by this point. Hope is an ugly mistress sometimes.
This is the 2nd Cryptic MMO I've quit all in the span of about 3 weeks. I feel I should point out that STO devs do comment on their forums and they are getting updates. Both games have been in development for the same amount of time. Why do you think that is? Could it be because subbing/life-ing STO doesn't split the playerbase? Maybe...
2. Take a look at this link:
http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=132204
Well put together bit of info. it is basically encouraging people to sub/life. But the numbers say that's far from what Cryptic wants. They stand to make more profit from Silvers. If you still think the Hybrid model works or that your sub means squat to Cryptic, or you're still delusional thinking your sub is saving the game, well, that post proves it doesn't. To me it proves they'd rather everyone was Silver. When everyone is 'Silver', there wouldn't be a 'Silver' anymore. It would be one way to level the playing field.
3. This next part might anger the fanbois that still haven't noticed all their money has been going to STO/NWN. I'm a truly 'free' player. I won't spend a dime ever on this game. Well I wouldn't if I didn't quit. Doesn't that speak volumes? Quitting a free mmo.
Anyway, Cryptic mmos have a pretty big draw in for people like me. The Dil/Q exchange. It's one of the reasons I tried both these games. It's better handled in STO, but I'm here to talk about CO.
In CO, earning Q is the most grindy, please-stop-my-brain-cells-from-committing-seppku experience in an mmo I've ever played. I should point out I played RO for 3 years ages ago. It works decently for STO but it's down right horrible in CO. Here's why.
-Q is worth less in CO. It took CO to show me Dil sinks are actually great for freebies
-It takes hours to reach the 8k Q cap in this game compared to STO
-Everything in the C-Store worth aiming for is around 900-1100cp. Or $9-$11 dollars US.
Do the math, we get 2 hero slots. It takes nearly 3-4 hours to reach the Q cap on both heroes. Each day you could attempt to trade your Q for 190-210 Q per cp... or is it Zen? Anyway, that's ~80cp a day. About 2 weeks for 1 item valued at 1100cp. W o w.
Also keep in mind you can do nothing else short of off loading vendor trash during those 3-4 hours and that 3-4 hours for a casual player is a hefty chunk of time. In other words, you can't play this game truly for free unless you truly don't give a care about anything the c-store offers. Or you enjoy 'working' for way less than minimum wage, which is what Q farming in CO is.
In a way, it pushes people towards the sub/life option, but the Silver option makes more profit? it's like they can't decide what to do. Pick one. There's only one option left since the other failed.
Why are the prices so insanely high? Yes I said 'insanely'. You can buy Guild Wars 2 for something like $50 and have full access to the game and it's servers forever. Why is CO so special that it's exempt from the standard pricing of games? I could go to Steam right now and make a list of amazing games for the same price as the FF slot. Or are F2P MMOs for kids with no grasp of how money works or what it's worth? Is that why gamble boxes are so profitable?
There is one last core problem with Crpyic's mmos. Remember those horrible shovel-ware games EA use to churn out or slap the latest hyped movie title on a cartridge and milk people of their money? I believe that's the type of mmos Crypic makes. Pump them out fast and unfinished, unpolished, unrefined. Then, over promise and under deliver. I read an interview with Crpytic's vice pres? Whoever 'Jack' is. In one he said WoW simply set the bar to high and raised everyone expectations. For one thing, CO is a F2P mmo now so no need to be afraid of big bad WoW.
Another thing, don't expect to compete if you don't put in the same amount of effort or more than your competitors.
WoW was in development for 4-5 years.
CO was in development for 1.5 years.
Shovel-ware MMO.
An interesting fact, the last W word in WoW is censored on these forums. That's kinda funny.
I suppose some of you probably think a true free player is worthless or anything I say has no weight. I promise I won't tell all my friends to avoid Cryptic mmos, or go on Youtube/Reddit bashing them, or make threads like these on the near endless number of gaming forums on the internet, or.... getting the point yet? I'm happy I could open your mind today. No charge.
No I'm not threatening. Unless I'm asked, I won't ever mention CO.
My advice to them would be quality over quantity. Go back in time, scrap STO because it's a blatant Trek IP coat tail ride MMO. Then scrap NWN. CO is you're best game and the one you've done the best work with. Ignoring it, especially with the steady flow of hugely successful super hero movies and the closing of the CoH doors... gosh what is there I can say?
Bye bye! Don't worry about the door hitting me on the way out, it doesn't have hinges or a door knob and is kinda just propped against the wall gathering dust. Good looking door though.
For everyone that actually read all this mess. Well done. I hope some of this was food for thought. If I upset anyone, I'm sure this will be forgotten by tomorrow. Perhaps it was more for me to get some things off my chest before finally leaving. Take care.
Post edited by ghennkins on
0
Comments
also why make a huge post when you are leaving?
freeform costs money because it is a selling point
and for $15 DOLLARS ($4 dollars if you use the 60 day cards on amazon)a month ( a bargain for how many hours of entertainment it provides) it is yours
silver versus gold is only the thoughts of the few yet very squeaky wheels.
even a freeform slot can be grinded in the game.
i would respect your opinions more if you were this verbal when you stayed.
i only worry about those that stay in my life not those that go.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
This was awesome while it lasted
_______________________________________________
Which would make it different from 90% of all other MMO forums how?
Seriously, I've spent a good amount of time in other game forums this past year or so (particularly TSW these past few months, and TERA before that, and SWTOR for a while), and every time come back to these forums I'm amazed at how civilized this community seems to be by MMO standards--for all our negativity they're actually less negative and less trollish than a lot of MMO forums out there. In the TSW and TERA boards (at least last time I was in TERA) people call eachother "troll" (merely for disagreeing with eachother--no actual trolling from the accused party) left and right all the time.
I do agree that these boards are unusually slow, though.
I have a LTS, I can't unsub :rolleyes:
No, its probably the fact that Star Trek is a bigger and much better known IP with an actual strong following willing to pour large amounts of cash on stuff just for having the name "Star Trek" in it. Also, the STO sub value is complete crap. The only reason to sub if you already had a LTS before the game went F2P and don't have a choice anymore. Otherwise you're literally better off buying stuff a la carte for a one time free from the cash shop.
..........
Otherwise I agree with much (not all, but a lot) of what was said in the OP. One thing I think its up for grabs is the comments about this game's cash shop prices being "insane"--it wholeheartedly depends on the specific item you're talking about.
If its cosmetic stuff, this game has by far the BEST, lowest prices of ANY MMO bar none. I challenge anyone to point to me to a game with more reasonable prices for cosmetic stuff. I know this because I have been playing other games extensively for around a year now and I know first hand that every single one of those games charges more (sometimes SEVERAL times more) the amount of money this game charges for similar items, often of lesser quantity and/or quality than what Cryptic offers in CO.
Look at the TSW and TERA cash shops and compare their cosmetic stuff to this game. In TSW they charge you roughly $10 for 3-4 non-recolorable clothing items for a single character. In TERA they charge you $10 for a single weapon skin for a single toon. Here, they charge you $4.75 for an entire costume set, some with 30+ pieces.
For a few other select items, though, I agree that the prices here are INSANE. $30 for a R9 mod Catalyst that requires a R8 mod ($24 for a Catalyst for those, and so on)? Rrrrriiiiiight :rolleyes:
And $50 for a single FF slot for a single toon, and you can't even use them to convert an existing AT toon? I know that a lot in this community consider the value of FF sacred because its considered to be the only saving grace and truest measure of value in a sub, but fact of the matter is that when you can get a WHOLE game for roughly $50, paying up that amount to get a power customization option for a SINGLE freaking toon is ape$#!7 NUTS.
If charging such exorbitant amounts for such a feature for a single toon is the only way to maintain the value of subs, then subs probably dont have that much value to begin with. And people fooling themselves into believing otherwise wont change that.
For every The Romulan Way or How Much For Just the Planet?, you had to deal with a Price of the Phoenix or Spock Must Die!. But they sold anyway, because they said "Star Trek" on the cover, and that was enough for a Trekkie.
STO gets more players, and probably more subbers, for a very similar reason. (Fortunately, most of the storylines aren't utter crap - they even come up with an explanation of sorts for how a supernova in one star system can destroy a planet in another star system lightyears away.)
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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If you don't have a freeform character, then you just don't want it badly enough... in which case, no real reason to complain.
-
Interesting note. Remember when this game went f2p, it was because they needed to build up the player population to solve the problem of players finding it difficult to find other players to group with for content?
I don't think that's a problem anymore, thanks to alerts. Now, you don't actually need to find someone to group with; there doesn't even need to be 100 people doing alerts and you can easily get auto-grouped into one. All those lairs and adventure packs that we needed a bigger population to more easily find groups for? ...well, they're pretty much abandoned now anyway aren't they?
So... yeah. If you're a completely free player, feel free to leave. They solved the problem of having a low population, so if you're not planning to spend money, they really couldn't care less if you go. They know that anyone who spends money on this game is a hardcore fan who isn't going anywhere. Anyone who doesn't spend money is just a bonus to them.
It makes sense. Raising the population proved to be only a temporary solution, so they changed gears. They didn't even bat an eye when the closing of COX brought them more players.
As far as you telling them to scrap this and that... lol?
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Nepht pointed this out as well in another thread.
This is exactly what is going on.....
Thanks lifetime sub, I'm getting paid to play a "shovelware MMO" that apparently hasn't died in over 3 years.
Snark never dies.
Not entirely true.
However, whether or not you're right about the income Cryptic/PWE receives from CO players being used solely for STO/NWN's development, the fact remains that the reason you've been able to play absolutely free on the servers without spending a dime is due to the fact that are people investing in the game, giving PWE/Cryptic a reason to keep the game service up for business. With this fact considered, you have quite the audacity to blame Gold players anything at all.
See the completely Free MMO RoM. Only vanity costs money and they have been around constantly putting out expacs (for free mind you) and are still making money. No lockboxes, No keys. Just game.
That maybe true but they did just higher a CoH content developer to work on STO and not CO. I assume its cuz the guy (gal?) dosn't wanna do Superhero based stuff anymore but who knows.
Leave one sunken boat to hop onto another sinking boat? Hey, the starship may be dead-in-space, but at least it's a FREAKIN STARSHIP! WOOOOOOOOOO!! :biggrin:
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.