NO, just NO. It just requires someone else to buy the Zen for you. In the end someone IS paying real $$ for it, just the act that it isn't you doesn't make it 'right'. (Yes, I realise lifetimers have 'free' Zen, but that's only 300/month .. so that's like 3!! keys/month, whoop dee friggin doo.)
That doesn't dispute the fact that it's an in-game method for the person who isn't paying any actual money. They didn't have to do anything outside the game to get the stuff.
The person who did pay isn't on some sort of "team" with the person who didn't pay, and don't pretend for one second that anyone is buying Z and then selling them on the exchange out of the goodness of their heart because they love f2p players so much that they want to be sure that the f2p players have access to Z. You didn't buy the Z for someone else, you bought it so you could trade it for questionite.
No matter how many ways you try to spin or twist it, if the dime didn't come out of my wallet, then I didn't spend a dime on anything.
If you have fish, and I have corn, me trading my corn for your fish doesn't make me a fisherman.
When I wanted Vehicles I wanted Travel powers. Not weaponized devices. Then again, many superheroes do have vehicles.
I was disappointed when I saw what they were on the PTS.
It's funny. I've seen lots of people claiming that someone asked for the weaponized devices version of vehicles... but that someone has never actually shown up. I think, just like you, everyone who asked about vehicles, wanted them as travel powers. The idea that anyone actually wanted all the champions in the game to hop into tanks and jets is actually pretty ludicrous if you think about it; we all love the costume editor, why would anyone have wanted us all to hide our costumes inside vehicles? If anything, people would have asked for a new power set that has you inside a vehicle, so that it would fit with the idea of customization, rather than "one size fits all".
I wouldn't be surprised if these vehicles were going to just be travel powers, but then someone at the office said "Hey what if we do this...", and everyone got really excited and lightheaded and started making bad decisions. You know, like how teenage girls get pregnant.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
If you have fish, and I have corn, me trading my corn for your fish doesn't make me a fisherman.
Yes, and you are completely not to blame if there's no fish left. 'You just traded them for corn.' Talk about spinning a story.
You're part of a system and you are facilitating it. Cryptic and PWE love people like you.
I love it how people like to put aside all their principles if it's not affecting their wallet. It's a devious game of playing free and paying players alike. If Cryptic and PWE want our money, they should sell honest content straight up and don't try to play these games.
NO, just NO. It just requires someone else to buy the Zen for you. In the end someone IS paying real $$ for it, just the act that it isn't you doesn't make it 'right'. (Yes, I realise lifetimers have 'free' Zen, but that's only 300/month .. so that's like 3!! keys/month, whoop dee friggin doo.)
1) everything that exists in every F2P MMO requires that someone spend real money on the game. The vehicles or lockboxes are no different in that regard.
2) All subscribers, not just Lifers, get 500 Zen per month, not 300.
I think my biggest issue is the fact that what this huge name changing really boiled down too was just a few glorified become devices that were poorly implemented. I don't like that i have to pay money to get these, and as a casual player i WOULD have to pay because i don't have the opportunity to grind 16k questionite for each of my alts as well as all the other marks i need on enough of a basis to actually be able to save up enough to get a single vehicle that may or may not be character only instead of account wide. It doesn't say on any of the descriptions and i haven't seen it on the forums yet.
Yes people wanted vehicles, and yes they wanted them to be more than just a new travel power, but at the same time all people involved were also saying that they didn't want these things to be just a become device, which they are. We were told it would be a full system and be just as customisable as our heroes, which they aren't.
I shouldn't feel like i HAVE to buy something to enjoy the new addition to the game, but it should be that it's so great of an addition i should WANT to. That's a part of why it's poorly implemented. It's this type of planning and implementation that's been causing STO to lose a lot of it's fanbase. After releasing of the Lock box, they raised the prices of a lot of things, especially the keys, not by much mind you, but you weren't really getting much for your money before hand and it seemed like it even less afterward.
but i guess the TL;DR of it is that the quality of life over there is having some serious issues and it doesn't look like it's going to be getting any better any time soon, and CO is doing the exact same type of thing which i hate to see because there are so many great suggestions on how to make the game better as well as more profitable on both forums, but Cryptic doesn't seem to care.
I never saw anything from a Cryptic representative claiming this. I have seen at least one post from a Cryptic rep saying that they would NOT be as customizable as our heroes however.
Excerpt from the vehicle news article explaining customization:
With modular power selection and a variety of chasses to choose from, vehicles in Champions Online are just as customizable as your hero.
Excerpt from the vehicle news article explaining customization:
Thank you. I had not seen that one.
Attempting to portray the vehicles as having as much customization as characters in game in order to sell more crosses the line between legitimate product hype and outright lying.
I steadfastly refuse to gamble, so I won't be buying any keys to open lockboxes. If I'm going to spend the equivalent of real money I want to get exactly what I want, and not get suckered into spending three times what something is worth to me.
It's reasonable to gate things like vehicles behind a paywall, since so much of the game is available for free to silver players. Since subscribers have options to get zen at no additional cost, it's not unreasonable to sell vehicles in the Zen store.
But forcing paying customers to gamble for them is objectionable, as many people have moral prohibitions against gambling, and may not want kids playing the game to gamble. It's a mistake to force your customers to have to make real-world moral judgments when playing a game.
Both Star Trek and superheroic Champions take place in settings that ostensibly value hard work, truth and justice. Gambling is for criminals and weasely Ferengi .
Yes, and you are completely not to blame if there's no fish left. 'You just traded them for corn.' Talk about spinning a story.
You're part of a system and you are facilitating it. Cryptic and PWE love people like you.
I love it how people like to put aside all their principles if it's not affecting their wallet. It's a devious game of playing free and paying players alike. If Cryptic and PWE want our money, they should sell honest content straight up and don't try to play these games.
Of course they love me. They need me. I provide a population without which paying players would have no reason to stay, since in CO's case an MMO without that middle O is just a low quality single player game.
And you're right, I'm not to blame if there's no fish left, because I'm not the one providing the Zen.
Fyi, I'm not facilitating the system at all, honest mistake on your part assuming that I do though.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
hmmm....logged in and thought I was in the wrong game. New title should be called "Tanks Online", because I don't see any Champions or Superheros around anymore, just people in tanks :rolleyes:
hmmm....logged in and thought I was in the wrong game. New title should be called "Tanks Online", because I don't see any Champions or Superheros around anymore, just people in tanks :rolleyes:
Odd, because I haven't seen that many tanks. Even in the Sky Carrier mission, which was designed for them, I see more people with flying powers in costumes than Hawkwings, and far more Hawkwings than tanks.
Perhaps it's a matter of perception, like the player elsewhere in the forums who feels the need to empty his bags after almost every fight because the presence of so much as a single lockbox in said bags offends him...
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
I'm happy to report that my second ever key gave me an Avalanche, on a 'silver' account
not sure if that reflects on my luck or the games beneficence ;]
one thing to note; I just made a new character and completed the tutorial but did not get the quest reward for the last quest when ironclad is launched, or at any rate, it was still in my quest journal as in progress or unfinished, so i dropped it
i guess 50 bucks for freeform isn't too bad, like buying the game, sort of; ddo gives you freeform for free from the start
also, nothing happens when i click my mouse, except that i can select things on the screen, like characters and players and objects; you could do this with right click and make left click activate the power of your choice; double left click, triple left click could do other things;
is this already possible and i have only yet to discover it?
finally, how do i make a team or join a team or queue for a pve mission? i see the queues for the alerts. Is there no public queue for individual missions? I see the team listing, though it is not sortable and no options are available other than contacting the team leader, apparently
as a reference, in ddo I can logon and hit O and immediately see any pve groupings available, whether individuals or teams, if they choose to advertise as such, then i double click for an invitation... what is like this in Champions?
i would make my own thread but i am on 'probabation' ... perhaps i can do the newbie introduction thread ;]
Here we go again. Cryptic and Perfect World are businesses. This means that they exist to make money. The fact that Champions Online uses an F2P model does not mean that either company is run by flower children who don't need paychecks, live off the land, and just want to give you all the neat things they make for free. It means that it is possible to play this game and enjoy it without spending any money. And that is possible. But if you spend more money on it, you should enjoy it more. In fact, that is sort of the point of a F2P model in terms of generating cash: its enjoyable for free, but its even more enjoyable when you start sending cash their way.
Starting with the OP, what you're really saying is, "I want to be able to play this game and have everything I want for free." You're fine with them putting all the things you don't personally care about in the C-Store. But as soon as something you want goes in there, so you have the opportunity to give something back to the Devs for all their hard work entertaining you, not only do you not jump at the opportunity, you start whining. If they gave away free everything people really want, and only charged for stuff nobody cares about, they would cease to exist because they wouldn't make any money. And then you'd have no game at all, free or otherwise.
To queue for PvE missions, look at the minimap in the upper right corner. On that map, you'll see an icon that looks like a small mailed fist. Click on that, and you can select the PvE mission you want to queue for (currently, it defaults to the UNTIL Sky Carrier mission).
I usually activate my powers using the number keys at the top of my keyboard; there might be some way to trigger them with mouse-clicks, but I don't know it. I also can't help with the teaming thing, as due to my own peculiar personal situation, I might have to drop out at any moment, and thus can't be a reliable team member, so I tend not to group in the first place.
DDO doesn't really give you "freeform"; that concept doesn't exist in the v3.0 D&D rules, which I believe is the ruleset they use. It's all class/level stuff, kind of like our ATs. And just try and build a Warforged without giving them money...
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
The same people who cry about clones and unoriginal character concepts are also the same ones crying 'what superhero needs to use a tank'.
This infantile mindset is getting old.
I beg your pardon - I frequently cry about clones, but I've pointed out how many superheroes use vehicles! (Some even qualify as "tanks" - the Fantasticar, for instance, or the Batmobile from Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns. "I modified her during some nasty riots a few years back. The only thing I know of that can cut through her hide isn't from this planet.")
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
Seriously, I've barely even seen anyone bring up the "what hero needs a tank" argument. The bulk of the complaints have been:
1) There is no in-game means to get them without spending money
2) Subscribers have to pay as well
3) Lack of visual customization
4) OMG they nerfed my prototype Nightwing-clone yet!
5) OMG they're making me gamble to gear up this crap!
And last but not least...
6) Why should I spend that much money on vehicles so that I can run through the SAME content I've run dozens of times before, when I can buy a whole new game with content I've never experienced before for about a much or less than the tanks and the gambling will cost me and play that instead?
But I probably missed a couple of key arguments that are WAY above "what hero needs a tank" on the list of reasons people have been complaining about this update.
My favorite part about the vehicles being introduced is that the majority of the game's missions are indoor instances that won't even allow you to use a jet/tank.
Comments
That doesn't dispute the fact that it's an in-game method for the person who isn't paying any actual money. They didn't have to do anything outside the game to get the stuff.
The person who did pay isn't on some sort of "team" with the person who didn't pay, and don't pretend for one second that anyone is buying Z and then selling them on the exchange out of the goodness of their heart because they love f2p players so much that they want to be sure that the f2p players have access to Z. You didn't buy the Z for someone else, you bought it so you could trade it for questionite.
No matter how many ways you try to spin or twist it, if the dime didn't come out of my wallet, then I didn't spend a dime on anything.
If you have fish, and I have corn, me trading my corn for your fish doesn't make me a fisherman.
It's funny. I've seen lots of people claiming that someone asked for the weaponized devices version of vehicles... but that someone has never actually shown up. I think, just like you, everyone who asked about vehicles, wanted them as travel powers. The idea that anyone actually wanted all the champions in the game to hop into tanks and jets is actually pretty ludicrous if you think about it; we all love the costume editor, why would anyone have wanted us all to hide our costumes inside vehicles? If anything, people would have asked for a new power set that has you inside a vehicle, so that it would fit with the idea of customization, rather than "one size fits all".
I wouldn't be surprised if these vehicles were going to just be travel powers, but then someone at the office said "Hey what if we do this...", and everyone got really excited and lightheaded and started making bad decisions. You know, like how teenage girls get pregnant.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Yes, and you are completely not to blame if there's no fish left. 'You just traded them for corn.' Talk about spinning a story.
You're part of a system and you are facilitating it. Cryptic and PWE love people like you.
I love it how people like to put aside all their principles if it's not affecting their wallet. It's a devious game of playing free and paying players alike. If Cryptic and PWE want our money, they should sell honest content straight up and don't try to play these games.
1) everything that exists in every F2P MMO requires that someone spend real money on the game. The vehicles or lockboxes are no different in that regard.
2) All subscribers, not just Lifers, get 500 Zen per month, not 300.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Yes people wanted vehicles, and yes they wanted them to be more than just a new travel power, but at the same time all people involved were also saying that they didn't want these things to be just a become device, which they are. We were told it would be a full system and be just as customisable as our heroes, which they aren't.
I shouldn't feel like i HAVE to buy something to enjoy the new addition to the game, but it should be that it's so great of an addition i should WANT to. That's a part of why it's poorly implemented. It's this type of planning and implementation that's been causing STO to lose a lot of it's fanbase. After releasing of the Lock box, they raised the prices of a lot of things, especially the keys, not by much mind you, but you weren't really getting much for your money before hand and it seemed like it even less afterward.
but i guess the TL;DR of it is that the quality of life over there is having some serious issues and it doesn't look like it's going to be getting any better any time soon, and CO is doing the exact same type of thing which i hate to see because there are so many great suggestions on how to make the game better as well as more profitable on both forums, but Cryptic doesn't seem to care.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Excerpt from the vehicle news article explaining customization:
Consolidate currency!
Munitions additions
Petition to take in game report spam function out
Why not to do surveys and free offers
Thank you. I had not seen that one.
Attempting to portray the vehicles as having as much customization as characters in game in order to sell more crosses the line between legitimate product hype and outright lying.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Easy enough.
It's a shameless and lazily concealed moneygrab.
But hey, we are used to it right? Right? Cosmic Keys of Power anyone?
Ah nevermind, I'll probably will wait for the next few months to collect Zen to buy a bike for my chars... I hope by then they are here at least.
It's reasonable to gate things like vehicles behind a paywall, since so much of the game is available for free to silver players. Since subscribers have options to get zen at no additional cost, it's not unreasonable to sell vehicles in the Zen store.
But forcing paying customers to gamble for them is objectionable, as many people have moral prohibitions against gambling, and may not want kids playing the game to gamble. It's a mistake to force your customers to have to make real-world moral judgments when playing a game.
Both Star Trek and superheroic Champions take place in settings that ostensibly value hard work, truth and justice. Gambling is for criminals and weasely Ferengi
Of course they love me. They need me. I provide a population without which paying players would have no reason to stay, since in CO's case an MMO without that middle O is just a low quality single player game.
And you're right, I'm not to blame if there's no fish left, because I'm not the one providing the Zen.
Fyi, I'm not facilitating the system at all, honest mistake on your part assuming that I do though.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Flare's guide to hosting and judging costume contests!
(link under construction)
@Quincy-St-Moth's PRIMUS page
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Nope they get better updates in World of Tanks. They even get to buy different Camo and put clan logos on tanks.
[SIGPIC]http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd175/Fifer71/mandrakesigmark3.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Perhaps it's a matter of perception, like the player elsewhere in the forums who feels the need to empty his bags after almost every fight because the presence of so much as a single lockbox in said bags offends him...
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
not sure if that reflects on my luck or the games beneficence ;]
one thing to note; I just made a new character and completed the tutorial but did not get the quest reward for the last quest when ironclad is launched, or at any rate, it was still in my quest journal as in progress or unfinished, so i dropped it
i guess 50 bucks for freeform isn't too bad, like buying the game, sort of; ddo gives you freeform for free from the start
also, nothing happens when i click my mouse, except that i can select things on the screen, like characters and players and objects; you could do this with right click and make left click activate the power of your choice; double left click, triple left click could do other things;
is this already possible and i have only yet to discover it?
finally, how do i make a team or join a team or queue for a pve mission? i see the queues for the alerts. Is there no public queue for individual missions? I see the team listing, though it is not sortable and no options are available other than contacting the team leader, apparently
as a reference, in ddo I can logon and hit O and immediately see any pve groupings available, whether individuals or teams, if they choose to advertise as such, then i double click for an invitation... what is like this in Champions?
i would make my own thread but i am on 'probabation' ... perhaps i can do the newbie introduction thread ;]
any answer will be appreciated
thank you
;]
Starting with the OP, what you're really saying is, "I want to be able to play this game and have everything I want for free." You're fine with them putting all the things you don't personally care about in the C-Store. But as soon as something you want goes in there, so you have the opportunity to give something back to the Devs for all their hard work entertaining you, not only do you not jump at the opportunity, you start whining. If they gave away free everything people really want, and only charged for stuff nobody cares about, they would cease to exist because they wouldn't make any money. And then you'd have no game at all, free or otherwise.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I usually activate my powers using the number keys at the top of my keyboard; there might be some way to trigger them with mouse-clicks, but I don't know it. I also can't help with the teaming thing, as due to my own peculiar personal situation, I might have to drop out at any moment, and thus can't be a reliable team member, so I tend not to group in the first place.
DDO doesn't really give you "freeform"; that concept doesn't exist in the v3.0 D&D rules, which I believe is the ruleset they use. It's all class/level stuff, kind of like our ATs. And just try and build a Warforged without giving them money...
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
This infantile mindset is getting old.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Wow, that's an odd correlation...
What on earth do vehicles have to do with clones?
And by stating the mind set of both is "infantile", it sounds like you're supporting clone creation, which is flat out against the game's rules...
til;dr: Huh?
M-O-O-N, that spells @Rhyatt
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
Laws yes!
1) There is no in-game means to get them without spending money
2) Subscribers have to pay as well
3) Lack of visual customization
4) OMG they nerfed my prototype Nightwing-clone yet!
5) OMG they're making me gamble to gear up this crap!
And last but not least...
6) Why should I spend that much money on vehicles so that I can run through the SAME content I've run dozens of times before, when I can buy a whole new game with content I've never experienced before for about a much or less than the tanks and the gambling will cost me and play that instead?
But I probably missed a couple of key arguments that are WAY above "what hero needs a tank" on the list of reasons people have been complaining about this update.
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And playing by myself since Aug 2009
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