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Receeding value for gold membership, and the Future.
iamrune
Posts: 965 Arc User
It's time to have this conversation again, I feel.
First off, I love this game. I've been a loyal subscriber non-stop since the day of launch, Sept. 1, 2009, and I log in regularly and play. My guild is fun and lighthearted, just the way I like it, and while I have some balance concerns about the upcoming vehicles system, I generally like them and don't see them as wasted design work or anything like that.
But since Free to Play conversion, the only real reason to continue to subscribe is access to free form slots, and the perks of three extra bag slots, bank tabs, auction house slots, a single free hideout, a free character slot upon reaching level forty, many "Free to gold" Rented Costumes sets, and so on.
I recently managed to save up the magic value of 5000 Zen on my account, partially from saving up my stipends and partially from Questionite conversion, and I'm seriously considering saving up about one or two thousand more to buy bag slots. maybe a preferred purchased archetype, and preferred "Free for gold" costume sets I feel I'll want to use if I choose to just splurge on a Gold Character slot, and make it my main.
What is to prevent me? Why should I continue to subscribe? What benefits is subscribing worth now if I can literally just get all I need with one time purchases?
If I could have afforded it in the past, or now, I'd happily buy a Lifetime sub, but I haven't and can't.
I know, logically, that a Gold sub [and Lifetime sub in particular] are outstanding values, but now that I can 'afford' a single freeform slot, what good reason do I have to continue to subscribe month after month in the face of regular game additions that are only available to those who pay more in the Zen store, and hardly anything added in 'for susbscribers' like new zones and missions, and other playable content that I am not bored to tears of?
I've been here as long as anyone, far longer than most when I also count my time here in Alpha and Beta a full year before the original launch. I started testing and playing Champions online in Sept. of 2008. I don't regret the time or money I've spent on the game to date, at all.
But.
I have literally seen and done everything. Most of it multiple times.
The appeal of creating yet another theme build to run against the same content yet again is almost completely gone for me now, and Role-playing my characters is almost all I have left.
Alerts are like Popcorn, and I'm ready for a meal. What we need is more zone and mission and leveling content; yes, with a real level cap lift, and the Foundry ported to Champions in the worst way.
Is this a good time to talk about what is in store for the future of Champions Online, particularly in regards to the sliding downward scale of value for a regular subscribing, non-lifetime Gold Member?
I don't want the game to further change into a system of "Everything worth having must be attained from Zen Store or Drop Boxes, or require Zen Key Purchases for Lock boxes". Those things shift the game more fully towards favoring Silver non-subscribing membership, and discourage regular subscribing.
I'm not talking about a sense of entitlement, I don't think I'm entitled to anything special. I only want to feel as if the value for continuing to subscribe month by month has a value, which lately I feel has been sliding downward month by month. For everyone.
Thank you for reading, and please discuss this as maturely as can be managed. I am not trying to flame bait anyone. This shouldn't be about Gold vs Silver. Only about how Gold can be better, and what we can hope for growth in the coming forth year of Champions Online, and beyond.
First off, I love this game. I've been a loyal subscriber non-stop since the day of launch, Sept. 1, 2009, and I log in regularly and play. My guild is fun and lighthearted, just the way I like it, and while I have some balance concerns about the upcoming vehicles system, I generally like them and don't see them as wasted design work or anything like that.
But since Free to Play conversion, the only real reason to continue to subscribe is access to free form slots, and the perks of three extra bag slots, bank tabs, auction house slots, a single free hideout, a free character slot upon reaching level forty, many "Free to gold" Rented Costumes sets, and so on.
I recently managed to save up the magic value of 5000 Zen on my account, partially from saving up my stipends and partially from Questionite conversion, and I'm seriously considering saving up about one or two thousand more to buy bag slots. maybe a preferred purchased archetype, and preferred "Free for gold" costume sets I feel I'll want to use if I choose to just splurge on a Gold Character slot, and make it my main.
What is to prevent me? Why should I continue to subscribe? What benefits is subscribing worth now if I can literally just get all I need with one time purchases?
If I could have afforded it in the past, or now, I'd happily buy a Lifetime sub, but I haven't and can't.
I know, logically, that a Gold sub [and Lifetime sub in particular] are outstanding values, but now that I can 'afford' a single freeform slot, what good reason do I have to continue to subscribe month after month in the face of regular game additions that are only available to those who pay more in the Zen store, and hardly anything added in 'for susbscribers' like new zones and missions, and other playable content that I am not bored to tears of?
I've been here as long as anyone, far longer than most when I also count my time here in Alpha and Beta a full year before the original launch. I started testing and playing Champions online in Sept. of 2008. I don't regret the time or money I've spent on the game to date, at all.
But.
I have literally seen and done everything. Most of it multiple times.
The appeal of creating yet another theme build to run against the same content yet again is almost completely gone for me now, and Role-playing my characters is almost all I have left.
Alerts are like Popcorn, and I'm ready for a meal. What we need is more zone and mission and leveling content; yes, with a real level cap lift, and the Foundry ported to Champions in the worst way.
Is this a good time to talk about what is in store for the future of Champions Online, particularly in regards to the sliding downward scale of value for a regular subscribing, non-lifetime Gold Member?
I don't want the game to further change into a system of "Everything worth having must be attained from Zen Store or Drop Boxes, or require Zen Key Purchases for Lock boxes". Those things shift the game more fully towards favoring Silver non-subscribing membership, and discourage regular subscribing.
I'm not talking about a sense of entitlement, I don't think I'm entitled to anything special. I only want to feel as if the value for continuing to subscribe month by month has a value, which lately I feel has been sliding downward month by month. For everyone.
Thank you for reading, and please discuss this as maturely as can be managed. I am not trying to flame bait anyone. This shouldn't be about Gold vs Silver. Only about how Gold can be better, and what we can hope for growth in the coming forth year of Champions Online, and beyond.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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I'm just really glad I managed to get a lifetime sub on sale, otherwise I'd not even be playing CO at all right now if I had to continue paying monthly for it.
Oh, and worse, it looks like they've decided to cut off the veteran rewards at 1000 days, so now there's not even an incentive to continue subbing for that, either...
Snark never dies.
lol, CO needs LTS sale and end game content/more zones
@Scrizz :biggrin:
And slap a pricetag on it. Give Golds maybe a free 'CS Token', 'Discount Ticket' now and then....
Give a me chance to throw my money at you Cryptic. I really want to, but.....
Like i said in 'My Big Speech', Lock Boxes and gambling items make me a dull boy. I have no plans spending money on gambling, sorry.
And the Vet Rewards, would it have been so much of a drag to throw in a Title, a Costume Slot, a Name Change Token, some Mods, stuff that all ready exist. To show people that subscribe (or are LTS
Like it's been said, old Gold now has no real value. No real reason to keep subbing.
Nothing Else Matters.
Sad But True.
Cheers, King Nothing aka Fluttering Finnish.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
what?
It would cost you like....3 lifetime subs to buy freeform slots on a silver account in equivalent to what you'd get by just buying a lifetime. Oh and you'd still have less bags, less costumes, and no vip rp area access, you'd still have a gold limit, and you'd lose a 500zen monthly stipend....so you'd still be "missing out" so to speak.
Honestly this game was one of the first I've ever seen with the option to just be like F it and go lifetime. Which for alot of people out there, is way better than penny pinchin each month, especially if you know you're gonna be on the game for a long time. I'm actually kinda surprised other games haven't followed suit. Lifetime WoW account....I'd buy it, Lifetime Final Fantasy account, definitely buy it, Lifetime guild wars 2 account? Opps to late, already did it.
I can't sit up here and tell you how you should spend your money cause, thats not my job, but I can say this....Lifetime subscribers have been making profit off their investment for well over a year now....and if you wanna get technical, its like comparing a car payment. Sure you can pay 200 dollars a month for 10 years to pay off that brand new Mercedes, but...why not save yourself the hassle and interest by taking that sweet annual tax return and just making a fat down-payment? The only catch here is....no matter how many times you paid off that 200 dollars each month, you'd still have to pay 200 dollars each month indefinitely until the car just magically vanished lol, Its like living in an apartment vs buying a house...you'll never own that apartment, so its always going to be a drain on your pocket book, unless you're making millions and using the break on monthly expenses to just stack money, but if you opt into the house, its yours forever.
Lifetime membership investment=aproximately 1 year and a half to pay itself off and in turn actually make a
bit of profit.
Silver Membership investment= aproximately 1 month per investment to pay itself off, all profits earned are worked toward.
Gold Membership investment=never pays itself off, all profits earned are worked toward.
^^^^^^^^
Cant say you couldn't see it comin, but from a person who counts their money wisely, you dun goofed. lol!
Short version: Silver is the new Gold, and for players like you, Rune, it's quite possible that you may get a better deal by going Silver, which, superficially feels sad and disappointing, but objectively, lets try to not forget that the point of a Silver Model is primarily an alternate style of payment - the a la carte to Gold's buffet style.
One is not really supposed to be better or worse than the other.
Subjectively, however, I do agree that there's less and less incentive to subscribe, and many long time subs will likely feel like they're losing out on everything they'd invested in for so long. I agree with you wholeheartedly, but at the same time it makes sense.
You aren't paying attention.
I said if I could have afforded it before, or now, I would, I can't. I make enough money to set aside $10-15 a month for the subscription price.
I have not had, do not have, nor expect to have, enough extra any time soon to pay out $300 all at once for an LTS.
Broke Rune is broke, and it's all I can do to meet my monthly obligations and living expenses as it is.
So, kindly take your "wise money advice" elsewhere.
I'll 2nd or even 3rd that. If I weren't a LTS I would be a sliver account most likely. There seems to be little reason to pay $15 a month to play CO, considering how much sliver accounts get.
Sure you won't get everything, but you get enough that I'm not sure it's worth the cost of gold. Not with more and more stuff being z-store items.
You want my money? Offer me something worth buying and then actually offer it for sale, not locked behind a gambling scam.
The Forumite formerly known as Galeforce.
If you want my money, there is a fairly simple way to get it since I am fairly free with how I spend it. First, produce something I consider to be worth buying. Second, offer it up for sale. Don't lock it behind a gambling scam. If I want something, I am perfectly happy to pay for it. But I will not purchase a CHANCE to get it, When I pay money, I have a perfectly logical right to expect to get what I want.
why would you buy a lifetime but not keep subscribed? what does the lifetime offer you that has value?
Because you might find going silver and dropping the sub money in the bank for a while to let it build up is a good decision. You'll know if you really can live with silver or not, and then you'll slowly be saving up for the lifetime anyhow.
I'm very strongly opposed to level cap lifting. All that does is make gear and missions obsolete and thus REDUCE the amount of content available. Plus, at the rate that new content is created, the level 40-50 trek would be nearly barren. I'd rather see more level 40 content created than a big gap that makes all of Monster, Lemuria, and Vibora worthless with I'm guessing only 5-10 missions instead.
I'm just saying there's nothing a level cap raise provides that more content without the raise doesn't give equally well without the drawback. Give us the content.
Foundry, I'm totally meh about. I've played it in CoX and STO. In STO I like the daily award for dilithium. But other than that I have no use for it. In CoX I got my badges, played the guest author missions, played some from my friends and top rated non-farms. I found them no better than real content but with worse rewards for time spent. In STO, same thing, they're not any better than replaying missions or doing stuff with my fleet, and the rewards are lower so I don't bother. Again, I'd rather have more real content.
You're oversimplifying. Sometimes people don't have a $300 chunk to shell out, but $15 a month is more feasible. There's also the inherent risk that CO would shut down at any given moment, so assuming the $300 could be saved up, that's $300 down the drain in one shot for nothing. Imagine the faces on any CoX players who would have bought a lifetime sub 3 months or so prior to it's sudden closure announcement - just enough time to pass a warranty-like time period and justify the inherent risk anyone takes with an LTS, but not enough time that it would have paid itself off, and with a deadline looming, likely less incentive to invest time in the game anyway. Just because you love something, and would like it to stick with it for an extended period of time, doesn't mean it's a financially sound investment.
There's also the fact that not everybody plays multiple characters, so if for $100 you can get everything you'd want out of a liftime, why spend $300?
An LTS would be nice, don't get me wrong, but the CoH closure has me leery about purchasing one myself.
Heroic Roleplayer @epelesker | PRIMUS Database Moderator | Brigade Advocate
These are the wisest tidbits of advice in this thread.
Trust me - when I'm jumping into a new toon, all that green crap the low-level missions award you is valuable to me. The missions give rewards that are appropriate for a low character level. Officer Unfriendly is currently 16th level, and working on the early Canadian missions, immediately post-Crisis. Meanwhile, Skyfire is 37th level, and trying to clear all the missions there that might stop Caliburn from becoming Earth's pre-eminent mage so Caliburn will have the power to stop the Apocalypse when that time arrives again. Does that mean the 16th-level rewards that Unfriendly is getting are completely worthless?
And if you're a new player (and we do want to attract more of those - right?), all the content is new. You've never Stopped a Riot, never found out the Culmination of the Westside Intrigue, never chosen whether you wanted to resolve a Crisis in the Desert or Canada, don't have a Nemesis - the list goes on (and on, and on...). There's still lots of content. Just because some high-level player who's been doing this since Beta has run through everything backwards on Elite naked while using only his energy builder and juggling chainsaws, doesn't mean everybody has.
Value is an individual judgment, remember. The only "absolute value" is a mathematical concept, not an economic reality.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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Good plan.
Poor execution.
That aside, I think you vastly undervalue the standard perks of a Gold or Lifetime sub. I tried Silver for a while and couldn't tolerate it. A silver Silver sub to me loses the essence of Champions Online. I cannot stand the rigidity of the AT's and would miss the freedom of the freeform character. I also can't stick with only one character for a long period of time, so a Silver sub would get much more expensive for me very quickly.
The value is subjective, and after playing (nearly) the same game for 3 (4) years with no more meaningful milestones or change in play in the foreseeable, that perceived value may be lower for some than for others.
I third the "shelve/silver and save up" suggestion.
That is the favorable choice to me now.
Why continue to pay for gold? I wouldn't advise it. If I had a crystal ball before launch I would not have bought an LTS.
I been a long time leaving but I'm going to be a long time gone.
Willie Nelson
T.U.F.K.A.S. (the user formerly known as Scarlyng)
Wrong on the CO forums since November, 2008
They've gotten 3 years worth of sub money out of you, and they'd be getting any money you put towards a Freeform slot, bag slots and whatever else on a Silver account.
In the present, things like the Freeform slot are about getting money from new or otherwise untapped customers, not so much to keep old ones paying Gold. If the old Sub model was more profitable, we would have never gone F2P, if the old F2P model was more profitable, we wouldn't have gotten Freeform slots.
I predicted most of this due to the following: It's logical to expect Cryptic/PWE to make more money in the long run off of a wider range of people, and the way to get a wide range of people spending money, is to get them to make that first investment. Possibly most importantly, having that investment be something that they feel attached to greatly increases the likelihood they'll make further purchases.
Being able to get access to the meat of the game for a one time payment helps to get all those people on the fence, or those people wanting something a bit more permanent as a Freeform option. Once they've got that, they're going to want the accessories, of course, which is more potential money.
Basically, all Cryptic has been doing here is moving towards a more typical F2P model. Which, in itself, has always just been a variation on the Razor and Blades model. Anyone who knows the basic premise of how that model works, knows that inevitably, we were going to end up with Freeform slots.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
That's a great quote right there, and it sums up a lot of the perceived direction that the game is heading. Short bursts, quick instant gratification and not a lot of depth.
I confess, until PWE throw some serious resources at development I really don't see CO getting the shot in the arm it deserves. It's so close to being outstanding. A few bug-fix passes and some more content would be just the ticket.
As far as value for Gold subscribers, that's a tricky one. The way things are going, you have to put money down for pretty much any new feature. I mean look at the vehicles and then these Cosmic keys. You want to open that Takofanes Cache (which are a ludicrously common drop), you gotta pay. That's how they're earning their money, and we'll just get more of the same I imagine.
Perhaps if they decide to throw a couple of Cosmic keys / month at Gold subscribers as a goodwill gesture? (just an idea)
Stuffy on the old CO forums. PWE ate my username.
Hey, I saw officer friendly in an alert yesterday :biggrin:
But I was just saying the same thing. I've been playing CO for a little over a year and a half. And I've gotten my moments of being bored out of my mind and left the game for a few weeks...even months. But I find myself coming back because 1. My computer can handle this game and not look crappy and 2. Because no other MMO has the customization CO has. But back to my point, I still haven't done ALL of the content in the game either...I still haven't done the Lemuria missions, finished Vibora Bay or the Monster Island missions. I still haven't done much with UNITY either. (Mainly because I keep alt-ing) And aside from that, have people actually explored the zones? They're filled with some interesting secrets and easter eggs along with various lore.
But I also see Rune's plight here too...The guy has been here for a LONG time and I know if I'm getting bored sometimes after just a year and half, he must be really losing his mind sometimes. And I too have questioned if I should drop my gold account...The answer is no. My little brother has a silver and I gotta tell you, its a hard transition going from Gold to Silver especially if you're going to "really" continue playing the game. Archtypes (after being a freeform) really feel limited. You lose alot of the customization aspect of not being able to choose the powers you want, color your powers, etc. The other stuff like the bank slots, character slots, bags...I could care less about...and the 500z stipend kind of sucks now since they've increased the prices of things in the zStore.
It's really hard to say though. I see the reason for wanting to unsub, but I see the good in staying subscribed too. *shrug*
In a week this complaint would resurface.
There is no way they can make content for end game that isn't some kind of grind, that doesn't become dull once you've done it on your twenty level forty alts, without a major, like year long full team production, and even then there'd be "i'm bored of this already, I don't like this kind of gameplay, bla bla bla".
The game loses hundreds of thousands of players before 'endgame'.
Focus on endgame is a losing strategy both for players and the game developers.
Events and universally available content seem a bigger draw than new end game content,
Bloodmoon generally had eight solid zones, same with On Alert when it first started up.
Truth is if you have been playing this game nonstop for years, you are addicted.
The sadness you feel is likely because your neurons are coated in a biochemical crust that doesn't allow you to get the same pleasure you used to receive from doing the same things over and over. Some time away doing other stuff, maybe hard work, or stuff that's generally not fun at all like raking leaves, will restore your brain to optimal sensitivity.
Drop your sub for a month and take up zumba.
What, exactly, is "endgame"? Can someone come up with a consistent definition for this term? Because I see it bandied about in these forums rather a lot, but nobody ever seems to be quite clear on what it means.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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End game keeps folks interested. I was in CoH nearly two years, and new content to experience was never an issue. The combat system was just very stagnate, but at least I didn't worry about it breaking either.
Basically max level content. More challenging content with higher quality rewards. TT is effectively our end game. You could probably throw Vikorin in there if you really wanted, and I wouldn't count the bronze king with the Mandragalore being in Lemuria and all. And Nemcon. That is CO's "end game".
Note that nothing's been added since I started a year ago - and I'm sure far longer.
One might argue that Grav is "end game", but its an alert pug, not a teamed lair so I don't see it as such.
:eek: I only restarted a few months ago, i'm addicted. :eek:
I think that is what i should do.
"You can't read my mind, because i can't spell it."
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
@ZetBuster
LOL, truth. But still if I was the op and just couldn't afford the whole lifetime sub thing, after I've already subbed, I would have just dropped my sub and went silver as soon as the option was available. You pick your poison, but still do know this, Lifetime and Silver are the only methods that pay for themselves the fastest and offer any kind of profit to player.
If one has become bored with the game, something that seems to happen for at least some percentage of the player base in every game eventually, then moving on for a bit is probably a good idea. Play something else for a few weeks or months. Don't feel obliged to continue to, "financially support the game," when you are not enjoying it.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Play as a silver save your money for important things. Things like rum.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
People tend to have different definitions. From usage the one I see most people assume when they say it (note that this is not my definition, it is my translation of what I see people assume is included based on their list of complaints about not having them) is something like this:
As near as I can tell this mostly (but not always) includes two additional assumptions:
TL:DR version: end game is anything that makes you more powerful once you are at the level cap. When you have all the best stuff, you have run out of end game content.
That's the majority view. Then there is the minority view which is far simpler:
Personally I fall into the minority. For me, the sidekick system turns the whole game into "end game content". For the majority, however, they need the lure of more power for something to be considered "end game".
For me the desire for an endgame experience can generally not be fulfilled by engaging in content intended for lower level characters as such has little or no actual, "game," to it for me (for example going to Westside at level 40 to work on the Purple Gang Kill perk involves mindlessly slaughtering foes so far below my character's level as to provide no actual game experience). Similarly endgame, for me, cannot involve content that reduces my character performance below what I have built into him as such means I am not actually playing my max level character to his capabilities (for example alerts do not qualify as endgame for me because they do not allow me to play my max level characters at max level).
In other games endgame activities for me have involved such elements as:
1) The pursuit of in game wealth so as to be able to buy all sorts of cool toys for my main. Its important to note that part of what this a worthwhile endgame activity for me was that there was some degree of challenge involved in the pursuit.
2) Playing my character through a variety of content designed to provide sufficient challenge to foster improvement in my own gameplay skills.
3) PvP.
4) The accumulation of cosmetic character elements (whether weapon/armor skins or costume pieces).
This is not really intended to be an all inclusive list.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.