Grappling/Wrestling Power Set 2012-2013

rugrothrumbor
rugrothrumbor Posts: 534 Arc User
edited December 2013 in Suggestions Box
GRAPPLING

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Framework Category: Brick
Recommended Stats: Constitution and Strength
Strength Rules: Strength levels of lifting objects are put into consideration of lifting enemies. The weight of enemies will vary and can only be lifted by a certain degree of strength. When the enemy is too heavy for your character the damage of the throw will be cut down to 50% and you will merely slam the enemy down (causes knock down), enemies immune to knock down will only take the damage.
Strengths: Grappling involves keeping a single enemy occupied with throws, in many ways is a single target tanking specialty. Throws unlike knocks are not resisted even up to legendary level enemies. Some throws involve striking down multiple enemies or gathering them up before throwing them. Throws cannot be blocked and deliver a large amount of punishment.
Weaknesses: Grappling can only be done when incredibly close to the enemies even closer than the distance melee attacks take to reach. This makes it quite hard to reach the enemy and get a hold. Throws can also be broken out based on how good the strength of the victim is (grabbed enemies come upon the purple bar effect but it?s harder to break out of than a hold). All Grappling moves also cannot crit as well but makes up for this with high damage.
Rampage Bar: After taking a grappling power you will be given a brown bar underneath the blue bar. The max amount of Rampage will scale by your Constitution. The Rampage Bar will start out empty but as you take damage and deliver damage back you will gain Rampage. Rampage is needed to execute Grappling powers.
Enrage: Enrage will now also grant a stack of Enrage after a Throw as well.

-Crush-
Requirements: Starter
Method: Click
Type: Close Attack, Energy Builder
Animation: You throw a straight powerful jab than another the response is slower than Clobber but delivers more damage per punch.
Effects: Single crushing damage. Generates Rampage and Energy
Advantages:
-Accelerated Metabolism
-Guard Break: Has a 15% chance to disable blocks

-Throw Trap-
Requirements: Tier 1
Method: Maintain
Type: Block
Animation: Same like other blocks except your right arm is poised like a cobra ready to strike.
Effects: Damage reduction about 250% for all damage and grabs an assailant who attacks you with a melee attack. The enemy is immediately trapped into your hand when his fist lands on you and you throw him to the ground. Has a recharge of 15 seconds after throwing an enemy. Also grants additional Rampage gains while blocking.
Advantages:
-Guard Up: Grants a defense buff when dealing a melee attack or a throw similar to Laser Knight.

-Bodybuilder-
Requirements: Tier 1
Method: Passive
Type: Slotted Passive
Animation: Your muscles expand and your body size increase as long as it remains slotted.
Effects: Slotted Passive, Reduces damage taken and grants regeneration (both effects are half in half when compared to Regeneration and Invulnerability). Damage reduction scales based on your Strength, regeneration scales based on your Constitution.
Advantages:

-Power Bomb-
Requirements: Tier 1
Method: Tap, Charge
Type: Close Attack, Throwing
Animation: Flips enemy over grabs waist, then slams his back, neck and head down to the ground. A large crater is made from the impact.
Effects: Single target crushing damage and additional AoE crushing damage on landing spot. Causes paralysis to your victim.
Advantages:
-Challenging Strikes
-Rampaging Beast: After performing the Power Bomb you gain a buff that will grant you a good sum of Rampage the next attack you used that deals crushing damage.

-Body Destroyer-
Requirements: Tier 1
Method: Click
Type: Close Attack, Throwing
Animation: You grab the enemy jump high into the air, grab him by the ankles, stack his head on top of your head, then come down in a fashion of trying to split his body in two landing on your butt. Ground explodes from underneath you.
Effects: Single target crushing damage, reduces enemy?s dodge chance down by 30% temporarily on players. Against CPU enemies it completely shuts off dodge chance for them.
Advantages:
-Bone Crushing Impact: The victim's body sustains a serious injury that disables offensively active powers for a couple of seconds. Only has a 20% chance of happening.
-Crippling Challenge

-Brute Force-
Requirements: Tier 1
Method: Charged
Type: Toggle
Animation: You flex your arms downward and stare forward menacingly shaking.
Effects: Grants a stack of Brute Force and increases base damage up by X% based on Strength. After performing a throw or charging up an attack 50% or higher you will gain a stack of Brute Force. Each stack of Brute Force grants damage scaled by Strength or Constitution whichever is higher. However you lose the ability to land a critical strike.
Advantages:
-Endorphin Rush
-Giant Growth

-Resist-
Requirements: Tier 2
Method: Click
Type: Active Defense
Animation: You pound your chest with your fist taunting your enemies to try and hit you or the ground explodes underneath you.
Effects: Increases resistance to all damage up to 360% (Rank 1) that includes damage penetration damage.

-Bulldozer Ram-
Requirements: Tier 2
Method: Tap, Charge
Type: Lunge, Close Attack
Animation: You charge to the enemy slamming him with your shoulder and head then holding him for 3 seconds.
Effects: Single target crushing damage (damage is based on your Constitution instead of your Strength). When fully charged, applies greater damage.
Advantages:
-Crippling Challenge: Disables block and taunts the enemy.
-Nailed to the Ground: Removes traveling powers and disables them.
-Can Opener: Grants a short buff from using the move that increases the damage from the next throw executed on the enemy.

-Juggernaut Strike-
Requirements: Tier 2
Method: Tap, Charge
Type: Close Attack
Animation: Appears similar to the Haymaker except your body is outlined with a glow and there is an explosion when your fist connects with the enemy.
Effects: Single target crushing damage. You are unstoppable during the charge up or the execution of this move if you charged this up at 50% or more (immune to tangible and intangible holds and knocks). This power cannot deal a critical strike.
Advantages:
-Destroyer of Worlds: This power's damage will now ignore 50% of the enemy's resistance

-Rumble Roll-
Requirements: Tier 2
Method: Tap, Charge
Type: Close Cone Attack, Throwing
Animation: You roll behind your enemy grab him around the waist than perform a series of german suplexes dealing damage each move. All foes caught within the path will take damage and be knocked down.
Effects: Cone crushing damage. Causes knockdown to all foes within the path.
Advantages:
-Rock 'n' Roll: Grants damage resistance while performing the throw.
-Crippling Challenge

-Merry-Go-Round-
Requirements: Tier 3
Method: Tap, Charge
Type: Close Area of Effect Attack, Throwing
Animation: You flip the enemy with your super strength, grab him by the ankles than begin spinning him around until a tornado is created around you and the victim. All foes that get near the spin will take damage and be knocked down. After the final spin you will hurl the victim haphazardly in a random direction. Anywhere he lands he will take damage.
Effects: Area of Effect crushing damage, can be charged before initial spin to spin longer. Causes knockback. The victim hurled than thrown will take the most damage. The AoE doesn't crit like Sword Cyclone but what it does though is deal a heck a lot more damage to the guy being thrown around and kind of scatters enemies aside or can be used for an AoE threat generation.
Advantages:
-More the Merrier: While spinning, all enemies that get hit by the spin will get caught up into the tornado and the thrown up into the air as well.

-Battle Hardened-
Requirements: Tier 3
Method: Charged
Type: Toggle
Animation: You flex your arms downward and stare forward menacingly shaking while the ground explodes underneath you.
Effects: Increases resistance to all attacks up by 15%/25%/35% (per rank). Acts as a defensive toggle cannot stack with other toggles.
Advantages:
Giant Growth: Grants maximum size increase with it toggled the whole time.

-Tornado Storm-
Requirements: Tier 3
Method: Tap, Charge
Type: Close Area Attack
Animation: You clasp both hands together than spin around you swinging your arms like a hammer.
Effects: Melee PBAoE crushing damage
Advantages:
-Controlled Winds: Changes the power to become a maintain.
-Impervious Tornado: You are unstoppable during the spin (immunity to tangible, intangible holds and knocks). More useful after taking Controlled Winds.
Post edited by rugrothrumbor on

Comments

  • rugrothrumbor
    rugrothrumbor Posts: 534 Arc User
    edited September 2012
  • rugrothrumbor
    rugrothrumbor Posts: 534 Arc User
    edited September 2012
  • rokurocaris
    rokurocaris Posts: 1,074 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    As awesome as this sounds, I still think the only thing even close to this we could possibly have in the game is the ability to pick enemies up and throw them, just like objects.
  • savetheplanetnow
    savetheplanetnow Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Most of the animations are still existing. For example you could use AFK emote to execute a "piledriver" or backflip from acrobatics to perform a "Frankensteiner"
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QMYDjCef8
  • vorshoth
    vorshoth Posts: 596 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I've always felt a grappling/wrestling powerset is possible. Most of the weirder bits of wrestling moves really is just melee-range Holds and Incapacitates mixed with Melee-range Knock-Ups and Knock-Downs.
    Also, hitting people with chairs, if I recall what little I know about wrestling. Which we can do.
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  • rugrothrumbor
    rugrothrumbor Posts: 534 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Yeah I'm wondering if Cryptic/PWE ever tested it out themselves or they just don't care. :(

    Aside from just the grappling/wrestling set, if they figure out how to set the throwing mechanic they could add new powers to pre-existing sets that involve throwing or grabbing.

    Like a sword impale and throwing power for Heavy Weapons, a judo throw with unarmed martial arts, a gravity hold and throw for telepathy, or a big earth hand grab on an enemy then slamming.
  • championshewolf
    championshewolf Posts: 4,375 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Yeah I'm wondering if Cryptic/PWE ever tested it out themselves or they just don't care. :(

    Aside from just the grappling/wrestling set, if they figure out how to set the throwing mechanic they could add new powers to pre-existing sets that involve throwing or grabbing.

    Like a sword impale and throwing power for Heavy Weapons, a judo throw with unarmed martial arts, a gravity hold and throw for telepathy, or a big earth hand grab on an enemy then slamming.

    They've tested, the logistics of it aren't as simple as many make it out to believe. Since it's quite possible what you see on the screen isn't exactly what everyone else sees on the screen, you would also be looking at the fact the set as a whole, being a grapple set, would be at the mercy of the fact holds would receive diminishing returns to being completely useless after a point.
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  • savetheplanetnow
    savetheplanetnow Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Of course there would be some limitations and facts:

    -Breaking a grapple depends on your hold resistance (PVP)
    -Big Bosses (Grond) can?t be lifted up. So you have to use standart-wrestling-moves
    (backhand-chop, knee, elbow-smash) already existing in other move-sets.

    Developers have to be creative today. Using existing game-mechanics IS creative and would spare a lot of time/money. CO needs more content - fast! Here is one of the solutions to create it.

    Oh and if there are problems animating a "flipped" opponent - just do it like Sunsoft in the video game "World Heroes" when Hanzo or Fuuma grabs an enemy. :wink:
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QMYDjCef8
  • jonnyjonny14
    jonnyjonny14 Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Is it for F2P players? Or only fore premium?????
  • jonnyjonny14
    jonnyjonny14 Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Are there any new things for F2P players?
  • dataweaver42
    dataweaver42 Posts: 146 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I could see making the STR requirements for grappling an opponent depend on its threat rating: Henchmen and the like can be grappled by anyone, whereas Cosmics require STR scores that can only be managed by dedicated gear and/or Superstatting STR. Yes, I do think that a sufficiently strong toon ought to be able to pick up Grond or Qwijibo: we are talking about superheroes, after all.

    That said: instead of an entire powerset for this, I'd be more inclined to handle it as an extension to the Might Framework.
  • smoochan
    smoochan Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Animations. :frown:

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  • dataweaver42
    dataweaver42 Posts: 146 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Animations are indeed the problem; but once you resolve said problem for Henchmen, it should be a simple matter of applying the same solution for (nearly) everyone. The issue with Cosmics isn't usually their size (though the Harbinger may be an exception); it's that not just anyone should be able to lift/throw them.
  • bioshrike
    bioshrike Posts: 5,491 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    How would you deliver a leg lock to a mind worm, or a piledriver to a lighting sigil? What about a headlock to a force drone?

    It would look silly to be able to do these moves to non-humanoid enemies, or ones of a significant size larger or smaller than your character. The "weight" concept is interesting, but you'd then have to recode all enemies in the game w/ such a value.

    Now, what I could see is a sort of luchador set - something with professional wrestling moves and very acrobatic maneuvers - you could deliver clothelines, spinning hammer fists, spears (a head-first jumping lunge), overhead double-fists (think captain Kirk's typical punch), open hand slaps (would be good as an 'insult attack' that generates more aggro), a 2-feet first jump kick, and heck, you could start bringing in props - like a folding chair, wooden board, etc.

    As long as you don't have to grab or hold your opponent, you're good.
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  • chalupaoffury
    chalupaoffury Posts: 2,553 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    You had me until "Cannot be blocked", Rugro. No power in this game should be unblockable without CC applied.

    shrike, I love the idea of a luchador set. That'd be *fun*.
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  • keikomyst
    keikomyst Posts: 626 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Another game I play handles grappling really well since one of the classes IS a dedicated grappler.

    If an enemy cannot be thrown, you just HIT THEM REALLY HARD instead for roughly the same amount your throw would have done normally. They refer to it as a 'Grab Cannon'.

    It's genius. A perfect solution for getting around the pesky problem of "well you can't throw supervillains or cosmics so why bother?"
  • bioshrike
    bioshrike Posts: 5,491 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    keikomyst wrote: »
    Another game I play handles grappling really well since one of the classes IS a dedicated grappler.

    If an enemy cannot be thrown, you just HIT THEM REALLY HARD instead for roughly the same amount your throw would have done normally. They refer to it as a 'Grab Cannon'.

    It's genius. A perfect solution for getting around the pesky problem of "well you can't throw supervillains or cosmics so why bother?"

    In this game, do you ever fight non-humanoid enemies, or enemies of vastly different sizes & shapes? If so, how do they handle it?

    Also, keep in mind that *every* power in this set would have to be coded w/ an alternate animation for cases where an enemy can't be lifted/grappled.
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  • keikomyst
    keikomyst Posts: 626 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    bioshrike wrote: »
    In this game, do you ever fight non-humanoid enemies, or enemies of vastly different sizes & shapes? If so, how do they handle it?

    Also, keep in mind that *every* power in this set would have to be coded w/ an alternate animation for cases where an enemy can't be lifted/grappled.

    Yes, you do. Giant worms can be Grab Cannon'd, gigantic golems that are just too heavy for you to lift, living trees, giant weird eyeballs, inanimate objects... you name it, it can either be grabbed or Grab Cannon'd.

    Admittedly it does take the easy way out and just has your character elbowing grab-immune enemies (on ALL throws), but it's better than having the Grappler be utterly worthless.

    It is also, of course, a 2D sprite-based brawler. Arguably, this makes animations easier and harder at the same time.

    There are also AoE throws that gather up a large amount of enemies and throw 'em all at once too. Think Zangief's Final Atomic Buster but while holding, like, ten guys.
  • bioshrike
    bioshrike Posts: 5,491 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    keikomyst wrote: »
    Yes, you do. Giant worms can be Grab Cannon'd, gigantic golems that are just too heavy for you to lift, living trees, giant weird eyeballs, inanimate objects... you name it, it can either be grabbed or Grab Cannon'd.

    Admittedly it does take the easy way out and just has your character elbowing grab-immune enemies (on ALL throws), but it's better than having the Grappler be utterly worthless.

    It is also, of course, a 2D sprite-based brawler. Arguably, this makes animations easier and harder at the same time.

    There are also AoE throws that gather up a large amount of enemies and throw 'em all at once too. Think Zangief's Final Atomic Buster but while holding, like, ten guys.

    Hmm... so let's say that they did code into every power in this hypothetical grappling set, an alternate attack animation for targets that couldn't be, well, grappled. What attribute would you use to determine this? Would we just go w/ knock immune = use alternate animation? And on that note, *what* should be used as the alternate animation, and do you think players would be accepting of the fact that every grappling power switched to the same alternate animation on "can't be grappled' targets?

    One of my other concerns is that this dynamic and flashy set would switch to using the same attack animation over and over again when fighting a boss, (like in alerts).
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  • keikomyst
    keikomyst Posts: 626 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Ideally, EVERY enemy would be able to be grappled save for the really big ones. There is no reason someone with super strength can't suplex Viper X or even Ripper! Grond, Kigatilik, the Harbinger... those would be the guys that would need the alternate damaging animation. I'd even be happy with it if the animation was just recycled from the Might set! Random 'Grab Cannon' animations would be the best way to go.

    Can't grab him? Eh, just settle for a Haymaker I guess. Or use Mighty Kick's animation. Attach some impressive, impactful FX with some nice sounds that are different from the usual Might powers (make that Mighty Kick sound more WHUMP or something) and I'd be fine with it. Not sure about the rest of you. :P
  • bioshrike
    bioshrike Posts: 5,491 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    keikomyst wrote: »
    Ideally, EVERY enemy would be able to be grappled save for the really big ones. There is no reason someone with super strength can't suplex Viper X or even Ripper! Grond, Kigatilik, the Harbinger... those would be the guys that would need the alternate damaging animation. I'd even be happy with it if the animation was just recycled from the Might set! Random 'Grab Cannon' animations would be the best way to go.

    Can't grab him? Eh, just settle for a Haymaker I guess. Or use Mighty Kick's animation. Attach some impressive, impactful FX with some nice sounds that are different from the usual Might powers (make that Mighty Kick sound more WHUMP or something) and I'd be fine with it. Not sure about the rest of you. :P

    Well, this sort of brings us back to the initial problem - *how* do you determine which enemies can or cannot be grappled, using the already-existing game mechanics? The devs aren't going to go back and code some weight value into all enemies. Using something like knock resistance would probably be the best way to go - if an enemy isn't knock resistant, then go ahead w/ the default grapple animation. If they are, use the fall-back animation instead. If you have a better idea, please present it. As for which animation to use - I was thinking a bit, and perhaps the initial punch from might's EB would work - it looks sufficiently powerful...
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  • rugrothrumbor
    rugrothrumbor Posts: 534 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    You had me until "Cannot be blocked", Rugro. No power in this game should be unblockable without CC applied.

    shrike, I love the idea of a luchador set. That'd be *fun*.

    I don't see the problem with that in terms of PvP balance since everyone's block is always disabled anyway by Crippling Challenge and CPU mobs rarely if not ever block.
  • rugrothrumbor
    rugrothrumbor Posts: 534 Arc User
    edited October 2013
  • chimerafreek
    chimerafreek Posts: 383 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    [QUOTE= rugrothrumbor

    Tornado Storm-
    Requirements: Tier 3
    Method: Tap, Charge
    Type: Close Area Attack
    Animation: You clasp both hands together than spin around you swinging your arms like a hammer.
    Effects: Melee PBAoE crushing damage
    Advantages:
    -Controlled Winds: Changes the power to become a maintain.
    -Impervious Tornado: You are unstoppable during the spin (immunity to tangible, intangible holds and knocks). More useful after taking Controlled Winds.[/QUOTE]



    Yesss this. an attack like this *that's enraged friendly* is just what I need.
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  • tau41
    tau41 Posts: 83 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    So, from what I've SEEN with CO, all of their action animations are MoCap or particle effects. I say that as an animator-the only non-MoCap animations I can think of in CO are the facial animations, some of which are... yeah. They have some custom traditional animations for things that couldn't be animated using MoCap-the Roin'esh come to mind, They have a few things that basically HAD to be traditionally animated.

    Why does that matter? That matters because traditional animation is done in the studio/offices. MoCap requires actors and a green room, which I'm guessing Cryptic, being on the west coast, rents studio time and hires non-staffers for MoCap. Due to legal mumbo jumbo involving SAG, it's ALSO possible that they can't shoot any more MoCap for the project without having to pay the original actors for another performance. I'm not sure how likely it is, but there are weird things like that in performance contracts, and I'm fairly sure MoCap falls under 'performing arts,' which would mean, particularly on the West coast, SAG is involved.

    Now again, I'm assuming everything was done with MoCap because it looks like motion capture animation-there's very little in the way of animation techniques used to make it look better. If this is correct, this ALSO means they have a VERY small animation team on CO-small to the point that the animators are actually the model and texture artists co-opted into some animation duty. As you guys know, they're putting out new models and textures every so often and doubtlessly working on things we don't know about.

    Finally, the same people told us when they released the Wizard set they would have new Weapon projection points for all the powers, which never materialized because, to paraphrase, "It's complicated."

    TL:DR: Very, very, very, very low chance of this happening.
  • rugrothrumbor
    rugrothrumbor Posts: 534 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Right because they don't keep on coming up with new animations such the ones they gave for Heavy Weapons. In addition to that they can also recycle pre-existing animation frames to match up a grappling animation.
  • tau41
    tau41 Posts: 83 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Heavy weapons largely used timing variations on SB attacks. There's like TWO custom animations for the player model-that is a WORLD of difference from custom animating player and mob models.

    You're not just asking for a pair of unique sword swings and timing variations on existing punches-you're asking for an entire set of unique positions, grabs, and maneuvers that effect multiple models in UNIQUE ways at the same time. Unique reactions have to be animated to the unique attack animations because they aren't JUST 'send player flying' techniques, or 'run player gets hit' cycles.

    You think you're asking for something simple and you're really not.
  • bwdares
    bwdares Posts: 1,517 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Grappling powers will never see the light of day due to the size sliders we have in character creation. Sadly it is that simple.
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  • rugrothrumbor
    rugrothrumbor Posts: 534 Arc User
    edited December 2013