New Nemesis Personalities

rokurocaris · October 2012

Updated and reposted.

With our three existing personalities, we are pretty much limited to only three kinds of villains:
* The Savage: A typical brute; not exactly dumb, but very violent and not very sophisticated either.
* The Mastermind: A mad scientist with a bloated ego.
* The Maniac: A complete and utter lunatic.
Or, to compare them to popular comic villains; we have Sabertooth, Doctor Doom and the Joker. That's all.

By far not enough, don't you think?

So, am suggesting a few new personalities that should cover all kinds of villains. I have posted a suggestion like this long ago, but this time there are three more personalities.
Adding them to the game when the Nemesis System review finally happens should not be too difficult. Basically, all there is to be done is writing new text for the current and the possible new missions.

The Servant
Picture: Black Talon
Description: Your nemesis commits all his/her evil deeds not just for him-/herself, but for a shadowy figure refered to only as "the Master" (who turns out to be no one other than Shadow Destroyer). He/she lives to further this dark master's goals and is absolutely loyal to him.

The Mercenary
Picture: Mechassassin
Description: Your Nemesis is a villain for hire, carrying out the plans of criminal masterminds, always with one eye on the job and the other on the paycheck.

The Greedwell
Picture: Guy Sweetland
Discription: Your nemesis is deep into dirty business. No matter what kind of evil plans he/she is working out; in the end, it's all just about money.
Note: This personality is meant for mobsters as well as for corrupt corporate executives.

The Occultist
Picture: Luther Black
Discription: Your nemesis uses malicious magic for his/her shadowy schemes and diabolical deeds. His/her crimes always have a mystical purpose or background, and be it just to fullfill a dark prophecy.

The General
Picture: Clyde Von Shoulz
Discription: Your nemesis is of a military or paramilitary orgin, seeking power and glorious conquest through the both stategical and ruthless use of armed force.

The Manipulator
Picture: Menton
Discription: No matter what happens, your nemesis is always in total control of everything - or at least, he/she thinks or just pretends he/she is. However, he/she loves to play twisted and deadly games with you.

The Sadist
Picture: Zoe Loft (I know that Rid Len is the actual leader of the Maniacs, but she the gang's "face" and far better known. And unlike him, she actually has a unique design. :redface:)
Discription: Your nemesis loves and lives to cause mayham and suffering. Always chaotic evil, destruction on any level and scale is his/her sole motivation. And he/she revels in it.

The Zealot
Picture: Floodgate (she is a rather obscure villainess, but unfortunately the only one of this kind in the game)
Discription: Your nemesis is a misguided hero with a twisted image of justice. Actually thinking he/she is fighting for a greater good, he/she will stop at nothing in order annihilate all he/she deems evil.
Note: This one would be perfect for people who want to play villains.

The Arch Enemy
Picture: Just a dark purple siluette with red glowing eyes.
Discription: Your nemesis is an enemy of yours for quite a time and hates you with a passion that borders on the irrational. All he/she does serves only one purpose: To get YOU!

Side Note:
The Savage's picture is in need for a change, because that kind of nemesis is nothing like Grond. The Savage may think mostly with his muscles, but he is still a schemer and leader, not a rampaging monster. Maybe Ripper, Gigaton or Armadillo would be better to represent this personality. And to be honest, I think something like "The Brute" would be a better fitting name.

See also: Nemesis Legacy and Crossover Missions

cybersoldier1981 · October 2012

I've been asking for this as well. The only thing I would put in there is that you should have two things:

Nemesis TYPE, like you're advising-

And Nemesis MOTIVE- which could be revenge, conquest, crime, etc.

Another thing it should focus on is a difference between enemies- While a traditional supervillain would ideally use the death ray and jailbreak thing- I'd like something for paranormal/mystical enemies, criminals, militants, etc.

gansetseg · October 2012

Given what happens to Shadow Destroyer, I think it might be a better idea for the Servant to link up with the real Doctor Destroyer, someone from VIPER, Talisman, or another big-time supervill.

twg042370 · October 2012

The only problem with this is that they'd have to write more ludicrous reasons for why they'd try to nuke the city.

rokurocaris · October 2012

gansetseg wrote: »

Given what happens to Shadow Destroyer, I think it might be a better idea for the Servant to link up with the real Doctor Destroyer, someone from VIPER, Talisman, or another big-time supervill.

Well, Shadow Destroyer is the final boss of the nemesis content. He had his share in the regular content, but with Docktor Destroyer back, it's obvious that he won't play a big role again anytime soon.
However, that does not mean he should be removed from the game. Shadow Destroyer's place is in Nemcon, and I see no need to change that. :cool:

rokurocaris · October 2012

Note: I edited the OP, because I realized that there was one kind of villain missing:
The kind that just wants to see the world burn.

bobgreenwade · October 2012

rokurocaris wrote: »

Note: I edited the OP, because I realized that there was one kind of villain missing:
The kind that just wants to see the world burn.

Every time this comes up, I also propose the Annihilator: the kind who, like Mechanon, seeks to wipe out all life (or at least all humanity).

vorshoth · October 2012

I'd add the Wannabe too to all this. A villain who really, really, tries to be a supervillain and sees himself as a nemesis to your character, but keeps on failing on every turn and is actually surprised when he succeeds.

d0m1nusdrak3 · October 2012

rokurocaris wrote: »

Well, Shadow Destroyer is the final boss of the nemesis content. He had his share in the regular content, but with Docktor Destroyer back, it's obvious that he won't play a big role again anytime soon.
However, that does not mean he should be removed from the game. Shadow Destroyer's place is in Nemcon, and I see no need to change that. :cool:

Doesn't Shadow Destroyer show up one last time in Resistance(in which you finally defeat him and he is sucked back into the Quithpolitic Realm) along with us freeing the Doctor Destroyer from his prison(which kinda explains why he comes back). But besides all of that, I would love to see some more nemesis personalitys than just the three we currently have.

pwkampfykaufmann · October 2012

Good list here Rokuro!

(*COUGH*...and good thing that Miss Hawke isn't the face for The Mercenary... *COUGH*)

I fully sign on the dotted line! /

But I'd also add one more:

The Hero-Hater, the kind of villain who generally hates superheroes for whatever reason, superpowers or not and you're his next target...
Picture: Wayland Talos

rokurocaris · October 2012

d0m1nusdrak3 wrote: »

Doesn't Shadow Destroyer show up one last time in Resistance(in which you finally defeat him and he is sucked back into the Quithpolitic Realm) along with us freeing the Doctor Destroyer from his prison(which kinda explains why he comes back). But besides all of that, I would love to see some more nemesis personalitys than just the three we currently have.

Yes. I know about Resistance. And I consider the adventure pack "regular content".
Shadow Destroyer might be out of Multifaria now, but not out of the game.

bobgreenwade wrote: »

Every time this comes up, I also propose the Annihilator: the kind who, like Mechanon, seeks to wipe out all life (or at least all humanity).

That's not really what I was going for. The prime example of what I had in mind for this is probably the Dark Knight movie version of the Joker. His goal is anarchy rather than annihilatoin.
The problem I see with your Annihilator is that every nemesis is working with humans in most of the mission. Mechanon never does that. And the only humans willing to work with him are cyborgs who think he would spare them if they become 100% machine - which he is not planing to do anyway.
The point is: Why would all of those secondary villains and possibly human minions help someone who only wants to kill all humans? Well, maybe if the nemesis is only secretly planing this, but then it wouldn't make sense to be a noticable part of his/her personality.

pwkampfykaufmann wrote: »

But I'd also add one more:

The Hero-Hater, the kind of villain who generally hates superheroes for whatever reason, superpowers or not and you're his next target...
Picture: Wayland Talos

I think the Zealot could pass for that: A villain who thinks of all the good guys as evil and of himself as the only truely good.
Talos might be a good example from the PnP, but his role in CO is only that of an arms dealer, unfortunately. :redface:

Oh, btw: As the player-created villains are not canon, I didn't use them.

vorshoth wrote: »

I'd add the Wannabe too to all this. A villain who really, really, tries to be a supervillain and sees himself as a nemesis to your character, but keeps on failing on every turn and is actually surprised when he succeeds.

That sounds fun. Not exactly one of the best known villain archetypes, but it might be worth considering. :biggrin:

pwkampfykaufmann · October 2012

rokurocaris wrote: »

I think the Zealot could pass for that: A villain who thinks of all the good guys as evil and of himself as the only truely good.
Talos might be a good example from the PnP, but his role in CO is only that of an arms dealer, unfortunately. :redface:

Oh, btw: As the player-created villains are not canon, I didn't use them.

Hmm, I'm not sure of the Zealot working for that kind of villain. I would have thought of the Zealot to be (for example) like Ra's al Ghul from Batman Begins, while the 'Hero-Hater' villain type I mentioned would be more like Colonel Stryker from X-Men. While the Zealot would believe that his motivation/cause/goal is morally superior to whatever opposition he is facing, the 'Hero-Hater' doesn't have to, because his prime motivation is just the hatred itself (in Stryker's case towards mutants).

bobgreenwade · October 2012

rokurocaris wrote: »

That's not really what I was going for. The prime example of what I had in mind for this is probably the Dark Knight movie version of the Joker. His goal is anarchy rather than annihilatoin.

Are you referring here to the Sadist from your list? I have to ask, because you were replying to the Annihilator, which was posted on its own, not in relation to any particular part of your list.

The problem I see with your Annihilator is that every nemesis is working with humans in most of the mission. Mechanon never does that. And the only humans willing to work with him are cyborgs who think he would spare them if they become 100% machine - which he is not planing to do anyway.
The point is: Why would all of those secondary villains and possibly human minions help someone who only wants to kill all humans? Well, maybe if the nemesis is only secretly planing this, but then it wouldn't make sense to be a noticable part of his/her personality.

Why would the Annihilator use human mercenaries? To save on resources, as they may be cheaper and/or easier than building/conjuring a Minion with that power level. To turn the enemy against itself. To demonstrate that his own kind is superior to these foolish humans by manipulating them into doing his work for him. Reasons abound.

Why would human mercenaries work for the Annihilator? Because they don't think he'll succeed, and they'll still get their payday. Because the Annihilator promised to spare them and their families in the end. Because they think they can outsmart the Annihilator and escape his plans. Because, deep down (or even openly), they agree with his goal.

Baltar worked with the Cylons. Tyr Anasazi worked with The Abyss. Numerous cultists worshipped Cthulhu and his kind. Creegan (Cleopatra 2525) not only worked with the Baileys; he created them. There are always reasons.

Oh, btw: As the player-created villains are not canon, I didn't use them.

To what, and whom, do you refer here? All of the villains I saw recommended were from the books. And, technically, even the Alert villains from the Design A Villain Contest are canon; Cryptic currently owns the CU IP, so CO is more "canon" than the books.

jonsills · October 2012

bobgreenwade wrote: »

Baltar worked with the Cylons. Tyr Anasazi worked with The Abyss. Numerous cultists worshipped Cthulhu and his kind.

Old-school Baltar, from '78, worked with the Cylons in the beginning because he wanted to end the thousand-yaren war, and thought he'd get a position of power in the human government afterward. His reward was beheading at the end of the pilot; since he came back later, one must assume he'd been cyborged by his new masters, and effectively was a Cylon. New-school Gaius Baltar didn't really have a motivation for a long time, other than short-term self-interest, but in the end became religiously motivated to reconcile the humans and Cylons. In neither case did they "want to watch the world burn".

I confess I missed a number of episodes of Andromeda, but I can only see Tyr working with the Abyss as part of his own plan to defeat and dominate it, or destroy it if it proved indomitable. That's the Nietzchean way, after all - if you can't own it, you can kill it. (Come to think of it, a Nietzchean would make a formidable Nemesis, although probably fitting under the Mastermind archetype already...)

The Cthulhu mythos actually gives you the best justification for an Annihilator having minions - the worshipers of the Elder Gods had been driven insane by exposure to the realities of Lovecraft's universe, and were sucking up to the Powers in a quest for temporal power, a quick death when the Stars once again became Right, or both.

So yeah, an Annihilator would have either robotic minions, mind-controlled ones, or insane ones that think the end of the world as we know it is a good thing. Consider the followers of Nekros in the Blackest Night storyline in DC, or Charles Manson's Family (who sought to cause riots to destroy society, not to enrich themselves, but because their master saw the concept of "society" as a Bad Thing that needed to die).

thhunterofskulls · October 2012

I have to say that so far my favorites out of the suggestions are the Annihilator and the Wannabe. I would love for one of my characters to have a hilariously self-sabotaging Megamind-style nemesis, especially if the endgame for them was a heel-face turn when they realize how bad they are at being bad.

lotar295 · October 2012

we NEED an overhaul of customization in the nemesis system,and while this list is awesome,I'd like to add a few more ideas.

For one,we need personalities for villains that may not be all "human",like robots for example,which could fall under 2 categories,ones like Mechanon,who hates all humanity,or one that wants to enslave it.Then theres beasts,which would have no actual language,but more or less howling,snarling,etc.,and also a beastial one that has a small portion of actual language.The alien,whose speech would sound like ludwig from the westside story arch,only with random-ish alien looking symbols in the chat bubble.Last but not least would be something similar to the "Zealot" idea,except the villain works with good people like UNTIL,and just hates you and tries to get you in every way he/she can do.

Also,make the nemesis stories differ based on personality,not all villains would want to nuke MC,maybe for robots,a nanobot invasion,or nanovirus.Bestial and supernatural would focus more on supernatural threats to MC. Maniacs would just do something like kidnap a high ranking person(like the mayor) or come up with a way to kill lots of people in MC without using things like nukes,death rays,orbital cannons,etc.Aliens would probably do an invasion or a orbital cannon.

rokurocaris · October 2012

lotar295 wrote: »

For one,we need personalities for villains that may not be all "human",like robots for example,which could fall under 2 categories,ones like Mechanon,who hates all humanity,or one that wants to enslave it.Then theres beasts,which would have no actual language,but more or less howling,snarling,etc.,and also a beastial one that has a small portion of actual language.The alien,whose speech would sound like ludwig from the westside story arch,only with random-ish alien looking symbols in the chat bubble.Last but not least would be something similar to the "Zealot" idea,except the villain works with good people like UNTIL,and just hates you and tries to get you in every way he/she can do.

thhunterofskulls wrote: »

I have to say that so far my favorites out of the suggestions are the Annihilator and the Wannabe. I would love for one of my characters to have a hilariously self-sabotaging Megamind-style nemesis, especially if the endgame for them was a heel-face turn when they realize how bad they are at being bad.

I should have expected that people would rather want the option to make extreme nemeses rather than just more variety; making them either the ultimate evil or a complete joke. :rolleyes:

Well, sorry to disappoint you, but nemesis missions are just not written for such villains. A nemesis just cannot be a harmless joke character, a destroyer of worlds or a mole amongst allies.
No matter what personality we give them, they will always be typical "mainstream" supervillains.

How would you explain the Wannabe suddenly killing Doctor Von Schultz, only to return to being harmless in the next mission?
How would you explain that the Annihilator bothers saving himself from Ghost Veil, if setting her free would be all it takes to doom the entire world, which was probably his intention?
And how could an evil UNTIL agent, who wants to sabotage heroes instead of helping them, and doing all the outright villainous things our nemeses do, possibly keep his job? :rolleyes:

My intention was to add something in line with the current Nemesis System. A great improvement that can be done just by writing new text.

lotar295 wrote: »

Also,make the nemesis stories differ based on personality,not all villains would want to nuke MC,maybe for robots,a nanobot invasion,or nanovirus. Bestial and supernatural would focus more on supernatural threats to MC. Maniacs would just do something like kidnap a high ranking person (like the mayor) or come up with a way to kill lots of people in MC without using things like nukes, death rays, orbital cannons, etc. Aliens would probably do an invasion or a orbital cannon.

And there is the problem:
Extreme and exotic villains do not just have a different personality, but a whole different mode of operation than the rest. That cannot be done with the Nemesis System. And no, I don't think it could ever be made customizable enough for that.

If one wants to create a villain that is so different from what our nemeses generally are,
I see no other way than Foundry. Only with that, we could write our own stories.

bobgreenwade · October 2012

rokurocaris wrote: »

How would you explain that the Annihilator bothers saving himself from Ghost Veil, if setting her free would be all it takes to doom the entire world, which was probably his intention?

"I had hoped to take part in humanity's destruction, but this will do. My work here is done."

lotar295 · October 2012

Oh,I see the point there,but still we do need more personalities for the nemesis system,it is about time for that thing to have an overhaul,even if it does only add a few personalities,it would still be great to have an expansion to it.I kind of see the problem with my earlier suggestion now,but above all,we do need more things for the nemesis system.

chaoswolf820 · October 2012

I fully support the Nemesis system getting some tweaking, as its current setup makes it rather tricky to come up with a good foe when the non-costumery aspects of customization are so limited.

Also, the option to rename/delete a Nemesis is sorely needed.

bobgreenwade · October 2012

I'd had (and posted) an idea a couple of weeks a go for letting users submit their own Nemesis Personality dialogue, in the general spirit of the Design A Villain contest. Cryptic could just create a PDF or RTF document with all of the existing dialogue, and encourage players to write their own and send it to a special email address. This could give us many new possibilities.

dantheiceman1 · October 2012

/signed fully

the nem system is one of my highest points in this game and ANY improvement needs to be in the game.

the system as a whole needs a 150% TOTAL patch revamp though the missions they have right now are ok. but there needs to be a metric ton of more stuff in it, this is a good step, we also needs custom minions, a rogue gallery team up, and ambush and open world missions with the nemesis

this tread is FULL of ideas that NEED to be in the system

http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=124755

rugrothrumbor · October 2012

This is fun and we need more villain personalities.

The Megalomaniac
Picture: Unknown
Description: This nemesis strives for nothing but power. He/she does everything to become a god. If it means stabbing their own mother in the back or selling their own organs to attain power they will do it. Even if the Megalomaniac had made a contract with a god he/she will strip that god of his/her power and take it for himself/herself.

The Art Freak
Picture: Gravitar
Description: The evil that humans commit is beautiful to this psycho. This nemesis would burn a whole city down just to get inspiration for a poem. He/she would pit two people to fight one another to the death so he/she can capture it on film just to make a movie. The sound of breaking bones and screams of death is what this villain lives for. From controlling cybernetic marionettes to wearing the flesh of the slain this is an eccentric villain. Or maybe he/she just wants attention.

The Nihilist
Picture: Mechanon
Description: Devoid of emotion and morals. The nihilist is a cold, calculating and ruthless villain that departed away from all that is held dear by humans. Life itself is meaningless to this villain.

The Paranoid
Picture: Unknown
Description: Spurned by the apathy of heroes to his own misfortune, this villain has just come to hate all superheroes as citizens came to hate police officers. He always questioned why these "heroes" were idolized and not charged for destroying public property and endangering the lives of citizens by starting fights on the streets. He sees superheroes as a threat as much as supervillains. The Paranoid could be a good fit for a politician who sees superheroes as a threat to public safety and etc.

The Mislead
Picture: Unknown
Description: This nemesis may have been raised by a supervillain and brainwashed to hate the Champions or was a career crime fighter that has been persuaded to fight against the Champions. Even though this villain could possibly be a friend and a good guy he/she is told that YOU were the bad guy.

I think I went overboard. :redface:

bigfoot765 · October 2012

i like the The Nihilist persoality idea

rugrothrumbor · October 2012

If new vilain personalities/backgrounds was incorporated it should be incorporated with an Architect/Foundry. Since CoH/CoX is falling apart.... need an Architect here.

jonsills · October 2012

rugrothrumbor wrote: »

If new vilain personalities/backgrounds was incorporated it should be incorporated with an Architect/Foundry. Since CoH/CoX is falling apart.... need an Architect here.

I don't know about that. I just rewatched the last Matrix movie again the other night, and I don't think I like the Architect. Just as arrogant, and just as wrong, as the Catalyst - and in many of the same ways.

mingtran2 · October 2012

another good thing they should add the Nem system would be adding a different set a missions for each personalities, giving players more varity and motivation to have mulitple Nemesis

dynamech · October 2012

Definitely should be more personalities, and one or two more "ultimate goals" and/or type-specific missions would be welcome; TBH, I think a personal ALERT-style mission is the best way to go, instead of doing the Art Gallery, and when you have a Nem Clue, it should show up where the alerts are, so you don't have to zone-travel and you don't have to worry about other heroes possibly mucking up your mission (or end up killing players who happen to be in the area and wind up with purple minions stalking around near AEs).

That said, I think unless they implement the "arch nemesis" system, some of the types (like Mercenary and those that follow a 'higher power') may end up being unsatisfying; After all, it's not like if they use a canon villain as the "higher power," that you will be the one to fight and defeat it. "Ah! My nemesis is serving Kigatilik!" "Oh, that guy? Me and a few friends just held him down and kept kicking him in the snowballs the other day. Why don't you let us take care of your guy for you?" Apologies for the juvenile dialogue, but it takes some of the responsibility and joy out of it if I found out someone else was kicking around my nem, or worse, my nem's boss.

bobgreenwade · November 2012

The main problem I can see with having Nemesis Missions specific to Personality types is that it would require creating a fairly large number of Missions, at the rate of at least one per Personality. That wouldn't be too hard with the current set of three, but there are probably about a dozen new ones being proposed here, and that's a fair bit of work.

On the other hand, what could work would be to just create a few new Nemesis Mission chains, and let them be "weighted" depending on the Personality type, interest (Science/Mysticism/Arms), and other factors.

(Ideally, at least one of those new chains could substitute for the Deathray Demolition set, so that part isn't always the same thing.)

seazombie64 · November 2012

Though they would require new missions/stories..2 nemesis ideas I would like are:

1) The former friend. You had a falling out over tactics, or maybe you won the love triangle and he is jealous, or you betrayed him (or he thinks so) somehow.

2) The Competition. He delights in besting you. When you go to rescue someone, you arrive just as he has made the rescue, when you go to defeat some enemy, you find him cleaning up because he got there first, when you got to retrieve some kind of item, it isn't there, but a note from the Competitor is. Basically this guy likes to taunt you, and will occasionally send his minions to slow your progress, but isn't really trying to take you out, he enjoys frustrating you more.

The names aren't that great but I like the concepts

abstract21 · November 2012

I like the idea mentioned about writing your own dialougue, although that would take a lot more time to create the nemesis and it wouldn't be too terrible of an idea to have the option to use default dialougue for some nemesis missions.

I'd be able to give some of my unique nemesis the personalities I envisioned them with, and some of them are just plain off the wall.

An idea for another story like series of events could be like a 'Smear Campaign' Where your nemesis can frame you xD. Whether it be a disguise or misunderstood circumstance.

Maybe they could incorporate some sort of media or reputation themed concept with that.

Anyway I'll spitball a personality for the heck of it

The Shadow: This nemesis is like you're opposite, everything you dread, everthing you couldn't be, maybe something you secretely envied. Prey's on you'r character's weaknesses and likes to hit you where it hurts with their jabs.

Probably a very unlikely personality that would never come to fruition unless some backstory device was implemented :P

bobgreenwade · November 2012

abstract21 wrote: »

I like the idea mentioned about writing your own dialougue, although that would take a lot more time to create the nemesis and it wouldn't be too terrible of an idea to have the option to use default dialougue for some nemesis missions.

I'd be able to give some of my unique nemesis the personalities I envisioned them with, and some of them are just plain off the wall.

An idea for another story like series of events could be like a 'Smear Campaign' Where your nemesis can frame you xD. Whether it be a disguise or misunderstood circumstance.

Maybe they could incorporate some sort of media or reputation themed concept with that.

Anyway I'll spitball a personality for the heck of it

The Shadow: This nemesis is like you're opposite, everything you dread, everthing you couldn't be, maybe something you secretely envied. Prey's on you'r character's weaknesses and likes to hit you where it hurts with their jabs.

Probably a very unlikely personality that would never come to fruition unless some backstory device was implemented :P

The idea I had for writing your own dialogue would just be for specific things, like Alerts, NemCon, Whiteout #3, and such. The cutscene dialogue would still be the default for the Nemesis' personality.

The "Smear Campaign" idea could be a decent two-part Nemesis Mission, starting in Millennium City where the framing is started, and then moving to (say) Canada where the Nemesis is hiding out with all of the goods, and Proteus as a henchman.

New Nemesis Personalities

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