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Travel Powers in Combat and the 10% DPS hit.
wacky99
Posts: 115 Arc User
Someone was quite surprised the other day in an alert when I told them that their powers cost more to use when airborne compared to on the ground.
This is a given: If you stand still and have your travel power turned off, then mouse over your various powers, you'll see their energy costs in the descriptions. Then switching on your Travel Power, you will see those costs go up by 10-11% (For the duration of this post, we'll call it 10% because it makes the maths easier).
OK, so in combat, how badly does this affect the damage output of the flyers vs. the characters with their travel powers switched off?
My thoughts are that in a short fight it probably doesn't really matter so much (like a duel for instance). But over a longer fight it can make quite a difference, particularly if a group are all using their travel powers. Consider the following scenario:
A Super Villain in an Alert has 250,000 HP. Once again we're rounding to simplify the numbers.
Let's assume that each team member is going to do a fifth of the damage, i.e. 50,000 each.
Let's also assume that the Villain is on a lunch break so not attacking back.
And finally let's say that each team member has an attack that costs 100 energy when grounded which is 110 when airborne / running / acrobatic / on a hover device. Each attack does a consistent 1000 damage.
In order to do their 50,000 damage, they will have to perform 50 attacks if on the ground. If using a travel power they have to perform 50 attacks as well, however the attacks cost more to cast : 10% more.
Flyer = 110 * 50 = 5500 energy spent
Grounded = 100 * 50 = 5000 energy spent
So does this alter DPS ?
Yes, it has to. Just looking above you can see that the grounded player has 500 energy still to spend to catch the flying player, but they've both inflicted the same amount of damage.
I know that this is quite a simplistic example, but the principle is solid : if you are using your travel powers, you have to spend more energy for the same result. This is a net loss of damage compared with a player who uses the same amount of energy.
Consider this when you next lose a dockside dustup by a hair's breadth and a couple of your team members are flying. Would the result have been favourable if they'd landed?
Food for thought.
This is a given: If you stand still and have your travel power turned off, then mouse over your various powers, you'll see their energy costs in the descriptions. Then switching on your Travel Power, you will see those costs go up by 10-11% (For the duration of this post, we'll call it 10% because it makes the maths easier).
OK, so in combat, how badly does this affect the damage output of the flyers vs. the characters with their travel powers switched off?
My thoughts are that in a short fight it probably doesn't really matter so much (like a duel for instance). But over a longer fight it can make quite a difference, particularly if a group are all using their travel powers. Consider the following scenario:
A Super Villain in an Alert has 250,000 HP. Once again we're rounding to simplify the numbers.
Let's assume that each team member is going to do a fifth of the damage, i.e. 50,000 each.
Let's also assume that the Villain is on a lunch break so not attacking back.
And finally let's say that each team member has an attack that costs 100 energy when grounded which is 110 when airborne / running / acrobatic / on a hover device. Each attack does a consistent 1000 damage.
In order to do their 50,000 damage, they will have to perform 50 attacks if on the ground. If using a travel power they have to perform 50 attacks as well, however the attacks cost more to cast : 10% more.
Flyer = 110 * 50 = 5500 energy spent
Grounded = 100 * 50 = 5000 energy spent
So does this alter DPS ?
Yes, it has to. Just looking above you can see that the grounded player has 500 energy still to spend to catch the flying player, but they've both inflicted the same amount of damage.
I know that this is quite a simplistic example, but the principle is solid : if you are using your travel powers, you have to spend more energy for the same result. This is a net loss of damage compared with a player who uses the same amount of energy.
Consider this when you next lose a dockside dustup by a hair's breadth and a couple of your team members are flying. Would the result have been favourable if they'd landed?
Food for thought.
Stuffy on the old CO forums. PWE ate my username.
Post edited by wacky99 on
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Comments
This is only true if your character has just enough energy to power their attacks while not using a Travel Power. Even then, the loss of damage doesn't really equal out to 10%, as the time spent launching an Energy Builder, as well as getting in range if you generally use a 100-foot-range attack, will use up a lot more than 10% extra time.
However, if you have enough energy generation, you'll never have to stop attacking, Travel Power or not. Meaning no loss in damage whatsoever, and perhaps even more damage since you don't have to worry about healing yourself due to being out of the enemy's range.
Kudos for taking a smart approach to build calculation, though! That kind of thinking will get you far.
Cupid@Tool-box, stunningly radiant stag ready to play matchmaker between villain and arrow!
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Same with my Munitions build. But then, I'm in melee range the whole time too.
Wait? Whaaaa..?
'Wen considered the nature of time and understood that the universe is, instant by instant, recreated anew. Therefore, he understood, there is in truth no past, only a memory of the past. Blink your eyes, and the world you see next did not exist when you closed them. Therefore, he said, the only appropriate state of the mind is surprise. The only appropriate state of the heart is joy. The sky you see now, you have never seen before. The perfect moment is now. Be glad of it.' Terry Pratchet The Thief Of Time
With Flight active, your powers costs 12% more than they do with no travel power. At the same time, you get a 15% penalty to energy generation, which means you take longer to charge up as well. Combined, that is a potential 25% hit to your DPS if you have no energy management.
However, 200 recovery at level 40 has the effect of giving you +100% energy. In other words, at that level you can get double the energy of someone with no recovery from all sources. At the same endurance adds directly to your energy capacity. 200 endurance will give you almost a 300 energy capacity, compared to a mere 100 for someone without endurance. Energy builders build a percent of your energy, so that means your get 3 times as more energy with the endurance than without. This actually multiplies with recovery's bonus, so with End & Rec as secondaries, it is possible to get up to 6 times the energy for your powers as someone not using these stats. But that doesn't mean End/Rec heroes actually have 6 times the damage as a Con/Str/Dex or a Dex/Ego/Str hero. Even with infinite energy there is still a limit to how fast you can fire your attack power.
As nasty as the energy penalty for travel powers can get. It is actually really easily compensated for. A single recovery enhancement or armoring can give you enough extra energy income to compensate for both penalties. Alternatively, a single intelligence enhancement or even good cost discount utility gear can do much of the same thing. The cost discount can more than compensate for both the energy penalties of travel powers, too. If you have even one of Intelligence, Endurance, or Recovery as a super stat, you may not even notice the travel power energy costs at all. It's still there, but trivialized by your bonuses. If you set up your hero to have the energy to attack and fly at the same time then turning off the flight might mean that energy is going to waste instead of being diverted to your attack.
Does that make sense?
If after reading this thread we've been able to get people to have a think about improving their efficiency (energy management) which in turn has a bearing on their gearing and mod selection, then that's a good thing.
Stuffy on the old CO forums. PWE ate my username.
To correct you, it doesn't have to - however, it can be a significant factor. Ultimately, On-Alert changed the game, particularly for ATs, as now they could effectively get the benefits of INT cost/cd redux without having to sacrifice key stats thanks to the new gear.
This is primarily an issue for lower levels, as most lack the energy management possible on higher levels.
Properly spec'd/geared, energy should rarely be an issue for most freeforms, and is only problematic on particular ATs (basically the ones without a solid energy unlock).
But I see your point is really just for folks to consider the impact energy has on damage output. It's not necessarily going to improve your damage to run without a TP on, but one should always prioritize energy efficiency.