test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Proposal for return of Old Ways - Please Sign
kendallbolitho
Posts: 13 Arc User
I'm a tad horrified to see how certain things in Champions Online have been changed since the On Alert patch and I think with all the bug fixing in the game at the moment, this would be as good a time as any to roll certain factors back to the old way.
The first thing I'd like to address is the current "Crafting" System:
1 - While on some level I do appreciate the slot n' mod system for its simplicity, it is really lackluster compared to the old crafting system, and it's downright embarrassing compared to the crafting systems in any other game out there. I also won't neglect to mention that every single node is effectively broken at this point.
2 - The old crafting system gave Super Groups something additional to do, from Bag Making social events to Group Collecting race events and more, it was something that added many additional hours of gameplay for every character. If you want other examples of how good crafting systems contribute to communal gaming, join almost any guild in a certain cartoonish medieval MMO and witness the flood of events and ideas.
3 - It gave players additional options for good gear and nifty devices if they didn't feel like lining up and grinding in specific locations, just so that every endgame character didn't have minor variations of the same six items equipped.
4 - The most horrific of the points I have to list. I spoke with Gentleman Crush on what was expected to happen with the items once available through crafting and he said that while it was still up in the air, the highest odds were that they would be put into the drifter store... One of the most absurd stores available in the game. The -only- way to get currency for the Drifter store is to purchase a Grab Bag for 100 Z-Credits and roll the dice. Odds are you would end up with 2 Salvage, at best you -might- get 10 Salvage, so even for the crappiest item once available through crafting, you can probably expect to spend an estimated average of almost US$10 to net the requisite Salvage needed to buy a single item from a very large list, that originally came through enjoyment of the game. I'm willing to ride the "Fund Cryptic for continuing a good game" train, but in this instance, Cryptic has taken something that was enjoyable and helped to flesh out the game, removed it, to then sell it back to us for a price tag.
There is no reason not to have both systems running side by side. Make the Crafting equips slottable and 'boom' done.
The second topic I would like to address, is the removal of the Costume Unlock/Power Replacement items, certain Action Figures, Unique Devices and other such items from their respective loot tables.
These items gave a special touch, bragging rights, or something to "wow" the new players with so they would have something to look forward to later in the game.
This game is a high-tech paper-doll game with special effects, vanity items galore, and an achievement system.
It is built around those who have an addiction for collecting things and getting "100%" next to every thing that shows up when they open up their journal.
I can understand special Devices or AFs available only at a certain time or during an event, examples being the Summon: Champions Devices, the Golden Nighthawk AF, the Mr. Hero AF via the In Memorandum perk, Beta AFs, etc. but why remove Action Figures that have been there since day one and take out something that made grinding through thousands of minions, turning back and making sure we completed specific missions (sometimes over and over again), or made Open Missions worth it?
As the game progresses over the years, we should be seeing more of these kinds of items, not fewer.
I vote that we see these things reintroduced to the game.
/signed
The first thing I'd like to address is the current "Crafting" System:
1 - While on some level I do appreciate the slot n' mod system for its simplicity, it is really lackluster compared to the old crafting system, and it's downright embarrassing compared to the crafting systems in any other game out there. I also won't neglect to mention that every single node is effectively broken at this point.
2 - The old crafting system gave Super Groups something additional to do, from Bag Making social events to Group Collecting race events and more, it was something that added many additional hours of gameplay for every character. If you want other examples of how good crafting systems contribute to communal gaming, join almost any guild in a certain cartoonish medieval MMO and witness the flood of events and ideas.
3 - It gave players additional options for good gear and nifty devices if they didn't feel like lining up and grinding in specific locations, just so that every endgame character didn't have minor variations of the same six items equipped.
4 - The most horrific of the points I have to list. I spoke with Gentleman Crush on what was expected to happen with the items once available through crafting and he said that while it was still up in the air, the highest odds were that they would be put into the drifter store... One of the most absurd stores available in the game. The -only- way to get currency for the Drifter store is to purchase a Grab Bag for 100 Z-Credits and roll the dice. Odds are you would end up with 2 Salvage, at best you -might- get 10 Salvage, so even for the crappiest item once available through crafting, you can probably expect to spend an estimated average of almost US$10 to net the requisite Salvage needed to buy a single item from a very large list, that originally came through enjoyment of the game. I'm willing to ride the "Fund Cryptic for continuing a good game" train, but in this instance, Cryptic has taken something that was enjoyable and helped to flesh out the game, removed it, to then sell it back to us for a price tag.
There is no reason not to have both systems running side by side. Make the Crafting equips slottable and 'boom' done.
The second topic I would like to address, is the removal of the Costume Unlock/Power Replacement items, certain Action Figures, Unique Devices and other such items from their respective loot tables.
These items gave a special touch, bragging rights, or something to "wow" the new players with so they would have something to look forward to later in the game.
This game is a high-tech paper-doll game with special effects, vanity items galore, and an achievement system.
It is built around those who have an addiction for collecting things and getting "100%" next to every thing that shows up when they open up their journal.
I can understand special Devices or AFs available only at a certain time or during an event, examples being the Summon: Champions Devices, the Golden Nighthawk AF, the Mr. Hero AF via the In Memorandum perk, Beta AFs, etc. but why remove Action Figures that have been there since day one and take out something that made grinding through thousands of minions, turning back and making sure we completed specific missions (sometimes over and over again), or made Open Missions worth it?
As the game progresses over the years, we should be seeing more of these kinds of items, not fewer.
I vote that we see these things reintroduced to the game.
/signed
Post edited by kendallbolitho on
0
Comments
But the Crafting Train has sailed from the docks.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
So implement better gear for people to make, don't sink the ship taking everything else with it.
I'm having alot of fun with the new gear system.. far more than I ever used the old.
I only suggest that they also add Aura Slots, Power Replacers, Action Figures, and Costume Unlocks to a secondary crafting system available only after you've reached 400 Crafting Skill.. a "crafting Endgame" if you will.
I like the new mod system, but wouldn't mind breaking down gear to get new mods.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
I do miss breaking down items but the crafting mats I got ended clogging up my bank or being sold. Now I just sell the stuff I don't need and craft with the mods I get as rewards. The only problem I have with the new system is it is broken and crafting nodes don't increase your skills.
[SIGPIC]http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd175/Fifer71/mandrakesigmark3.jpg[/SIGPIC]
I like that I can store all my mods in my shared bank. I have quite a collection going. It's all easier and more straightforward too.
/NOTsigned
Silverspar on PRIMUS
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
I watched over 200,000 players come and go during the oh so impressive 'old ways'.
That was just one summer. By the end of it MC was down to 3 zones at prime time.
Absolutely no turning back. Things are better now than they were before.
/unsigned for all that its worth
If they were to at least put them into the Recognition stores or made them available through a Daily mission from either the crafting trainers (availability based on skill level) or the useless 'Costume Quartermaster' similar to the Dr.D daily but make it generic, (ex: "Wipe out >number< of >Faction< and collect >item<" and the prize would be one from a category of old crafting results.) I'd be content. At least then I'd be able to put some effort into earning (or 'crafting' if I suspend disbelief a little further) something.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
The old crafting was mostly just my undiagnosed potential OCD picking up loot and then breaking it down into components to sell later, the only thing I ever really made were power replacers, costume unlocks, and the fancier devices.
And those could easily be reallocated to other stores.
Since I simply cannot understand the current crafting system (it does look simple, but I just don't see much reason to bother with it, and that's a personal decision that bears nothing on the game or how the system works, as it would be nice if I was genuinely interested in my stats more than costume creation and character writing), I haven't really bothered with it.
All items I get, I just sell to a NPC, which generally makes sense in-character as giving it to an authority higher than your character to sort it out.
I'd argue that Drifter/Questionite stores should be where the cooler bits of the old stuff should go. Drifter maybe slightly less, since I believe you only get Salvage during events and via the Zen-purchased thing? Questionite might be a bit fairer, at least for the power replacers and costume unlocks, since the main USP of the game is being inventive with your character designs, and having more pieces and things that help concepts (I miss having burning swords.) is always a good thing, and should be made easy, such as via Questionite Store.
Failing that, Recognition works well too, especially for the Power Replacers, which look like they'd fit well into the whole 'NPC faction recognises you and is gossiping about you, they'll give you stuff if you're just that famous amongst them' that it implies by the name.
But then that's just me. I try to ignore the whole numbers and all those shenanigans and think of it from an in-character perspective.
We do need all those old stuff, one way or another, I agree, it's just a matter of where we put them that makes sense. But you sound tense and really strung up about it, as do many other people talking about the same thing on these forums. Keep calm, it's good for your health!
The old crafting system was passable. I admit, I remember seeing people going on crafting runs, where they'd level their crafting very quickly and doing stuff, and it was a community thing, which is always a good thing.
The problem was how disconnected it seemed from everything else. As does the current crafting system, from what I've understood of it.
I honestly don't see why any self respecting tights and cape hero (such as the game implies you are in mission text, although it does try to be neutral most of the time about it) would be looting his foes bodies except to gather evidence, not boots and gloves and whatnot. The only reason I do it and sell to NPCs is because I hate seeing the exclamation marks on the floor. If I could make them hidden to my view unless they're mission important or have some interesting and unusual effect that could benefit a character, I would.
Agreed the nodes need some serious fixing. And the rate of skill leveling needs to increased significantly.
Im sorry, if the best examples of the usefulness of the old system is bag making. You are kinda not helping your case. The old crafting system was near worthless. But, i would of rather seen it fixed then gutted. That said, I actually like the mod system. Its easier to gear up now, it makes better sense. I just wish the two systems could of run in parallel.
I disagree. The gear had poor stats. And was costly to make. Even if you took the time to farm all the mats. You were still forced to buy vendor items as a cash sink. And even then, you were still road blocked by the need for ultra rare mats.
"Well gee, I have over 2000 tier 4 mats, but I cant build a single thing, because I only have 2 blood of the dragons lying around". Sacrificing parts was like sacrificing virgins, in the hopes that if you please the RNG gods enough youll get lucky and get a single ultra rare mat from the effort. It was frustrating and worthless.
This is also false. Each and EVERY time a new grab bag has been released there has been a way to earn salvage in game via dailies. Granted they often only run for a limited time.
Id prefer for the lost items to be returned anywhere else. I'm not a fan of drifters salvage. But the claim that it exists souly as a cash sink is wrong. Ive gotten many items off Drifter and have never once purchased a grab bag.
Truthfully, the odds of crafting ever returning is slim to none. The devs can hardly get a few events to run now without a hitch. For good or ill, we are stuck with the current system. Best we can hope for is the powers that be find time to provide us with small fixes and boons rather then another major overhaul. As grim as it sounds, those days are gone.
I'll take that comment.
<Ahem>
This is such a terrible idea. It makes me want to yell, it is such a bad idea.
As you yourself pointed out, the only real way to acquire Drifter salvage, short of limited time, off-the-cuff events every now and then, is to purchase a Grab Bag from the Z-Store and then keep your fingers crossed you get salvage. Neither of these methods net you much in the way of Drifter Salvage.
And this process can become pricey. And the prospect of collecting all the parts, if put in the Drifter Store, adds up to a rather expensive process, as it was quite a bit of parts taken out of the game when the Crafting System got revamped.
Do the devs even pay attention to these threads sometimes? For weeks now, the subject of the reintroduction of these "Lost Costume Parts" has been heatedly discussed. It's generally ranged between putting them up in the Z-Store, to making them available in the Recognition Vendors. It was even suggested to have them in the Q-Store, and everyone had a hearty laugh.
Absolutely never was it suggested to put them in the Drifter Store.
Because, I reiterate: such a bad idea.
Yeah, we all do. just 1) not this game, and 2) not the way it was done before.
The problem is focusing on a couple aspects - power replacers and custom stats - while ignoring everything else - arbitrary structure, poor stat allocation, limited recipes, endless, utterly useless, one-off components, and a bad levelling system.
Especially since the good aspects are replicated in much better ways in either a new crafting system, or an endtirely new and unrelated way.
Think about it like this: those gloves and boots add to your stats, so they must be pretty powerful tech or magic. No responsible superhero is going to leave that in the hands of the enemy.
Your character is merely following proper proceedue by confiscating them and handing them into a skill trainer where they will be processed and either analysed for further study or distributed to MARS/PRIMUS/Steelhead/UNTIL/startup superheroes. The gear that you get from the head trainer in the beginning had to come from somewhere, right?
I guess I am the exception that proves the rule.
Even so, as much as I dislike crafting in MMOs, I think it could benefit the game for crafting of some sort to be brought back in a useful incarnation.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
The thread should have ended here.
Wait? Whaaaa..?
I disagree with either.
The crafting was incomplete, at worst, but I really like the idea of creating your own gear.
The problems I saw with the old system were:
* The items were tiered by level. Most blueprints became useless after a few level ups, especially the power replacers.
* Speaking of which: Most people hated the power replacers, because they sacrificed stats for a rather obscure special effect.
* Which brings us to the last problem: The inability to chose which stats would be buffed by the gear and which side effects it would have. Sure, there was that enhacment system, but figuring out how it worked was already too much most crafters.
The new system has it's share of flaws too, however:
* The new gear is just plain boring. The old one had funny names and descriptions, that made a good part of CO's humor.
* Many of the effects from the old system are lost now. Not only the additional damage types from the power replacers, but also effects like Endurance on Kill and Coruscating Might. What exactly was wrong with these?
The crafted travel powers being lost is another thing that greatly bugs me, but that has nothing to do with the crafting system directly.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
False. There are no specializations that even resemble those old gear effects. Which always worked, btw. The additional damage types from power replacers had only a small chance to apply.
How is this not pretty much what Finn said? The old crafting system was ****.
Sure, it had potential, but most of that stuff can be and should be replicated in other ways. Power replacers are, and continue to be a genuinely brilliant idea, but they could potentially function just as well with the mod/fusion system - (hypothetically) take a piece of gear, like a sword, fuse it with a damage type, now it's functional and slottable, you take an aura gem and a secondary effect enhancement and viola - crafted sword. (damage scales to SS, because the old system was craptacular).
The old stuff did have funny names tho. It was one of the few instances of "humor" that I liked in this game.
The old crafting system was ****ing terrible. End of story.
If there had never been a COH there would never have been a CO. :cool: