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A challenge to Cryptic/PerfectWorld
target1one
Posts: 30 Arc User
Being a long-time City of Heroes player (6+ years), I'm likely to transition to CO permanently as many others are doing. I tried CO a while back, was largely "meh" about it, but now I'm willing to give it another go, to the tune of my $30 for a three-month subscription.
I have to say, I'm heartened by the welcome the CO community is giving to CoH players. Many of you are welcoming the "refugees" (I like to think of them as "expatriates" :biggrin:) with open arms, and for that you have my thanks.
Having said that, I'm equally DISheartened by some of the CO forum posts I've read in various threads since I started looking into rejoining this game. From what I see, there seems to be less participation by the CO dev team in these community forums than CoH enjoyed. More to the point, I see complaints about longtime bugs going unfixed, new bugs introduced with every patch, player suggestions being ignored, and a lack of new content.
Now, much of this might be found in the official forums for ANY MMO, so CO is hardly unique in this respect. But this isn't just ANY MMO... it's the MMO with the best chance of being a real alternative to CoH. [I don't consider DCUO as a possibility, it's missing too many of the trappings of a real MMO.]
I know much of what I have to say has been touched on by other CO players (most with way, way more vested in the game than I), but I felt it had to be said again.
So, I say to Cryptic and PerfectWorld: You have been given a second chance, and you must capitalize on it. You are in the process of absorbing a large portion of the CoH player base, with more to come in the following months, but the only way you will KEEP these customers is to make the entire experience more compelling. There are many reasons why CoH continued to exist well after CO was released, and they have nothing to do with the basic game concept.
You must create more content, make substantive quality-of-life improvements, overhaul your quality-control methods, respond to player problems in a timely fashion, and in general, improve everything about this game.
You think you're doing the best you can with your current resources? I dare you to do better.
I have to say, I'm heartened by the welcome the CO community is giving to CoH players. Many of you are welcoming the "refugees" (I like to think of them as "expatriates" :biggrin:) with open arms, and for that you have my thanks.
Having said that, I'm equally DISheartened by some of the CO forum posts I've read in various threads since I started looking into rejoining this game. From what I see, there seems to be less participation by the CO dev team in these community forums than CoH enjoyed. More to the point, I see complaints about longtime bugs going unfixed, new bugs introduced with every patch, player suggestions being ignored, and a lack of new content.
Now, much of this might be found in the official forums for ANY MMO, so CO is hardly unique in this respect. But this isn't just ANY MMO... it's the MMO with the best chance of being a real alternative to CoH. [I don't consider DCUO as a possibility, it's missing too many of the trappings of a real MMO.]
I know much of what I have to say has been touched on by other CO players (most with way, way more vested in the game than I), but I felt it had to be said again.
So, I say to Cryptic and PerfectWorld: You have been given a second chance, and you must capitalize on it. You are in the process of absorbing a large portion of the CoH player base, with more to come in the following months, but the only way you will KEEP these customers is to make the entire experience more compelling. There are many reasons why CoH continued to exist well after CO was released, and they have nothing to do with the basic game concept.
You must create more content, make substantive quality-of-life improvements, overhaul your quality-control methods, respond to player problems in a timely fashion, and in general, improve everything about this game.
You think you're doing the best you can with your current resources? I dare you to do better.
Target1one
"ENOUGH!!! You are ALL of you BENEATH me! I am a GOD, you dull creature, and I will NOT be BULLIED by--" -- Loki
*SMASH* *SMASH* *SMASH* <pause> *SMASHSMASH* "... puny god..." -- Hulk
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This IS Champs opportunity to gain a whole new player base.
I'm hopin.
To the devs:
The game has to change. It has to improve. Bugs cannot be allowed to go ignored for months while you work on the next Alert. Alerts are fun, but they are NOT what many players consider "content". (I said "many" not "all" or even "most" as I don't have numbers. I'm not trying to speak for everyone but I have seen posts here on the forums as well as comments on in-game chat about Alerts not being considered "content") They are filler. They are something to do during a downtime between running real content. What many (and I may even dare to say "most" here) players consider content is story driven mission arcs and settings for those arcs. We do not have a Foundry or Mission Architect here so we can't do it ourselves, we have to rely on you, devs.
The game is tied, its the end of the fourth quarter going into overtime and you have dropped the ball!
The Forumite formerly known as Galeforce.
If you want my money, there is a fairly simple way to get it since I am fairly free with how I spend it. First, produce something I consider to be worth buying. Second, offer it up for sale. Don't lock it behind a gambling scam. If I want something, I am perfectly happy to pay for it. But I will not purchase a CHANCE to get it, When I pay money, I have a perfectly logical right to expect to get what I want.
Exactly my thoughts on the matter. Cryptic has been given a golden opportunity here, carpe diem!
Wait wait wait... I'm going to get a bit philosophical on you here but I feel it is critical to point out these are NOT the same thing.
I partly disagree that it "has to change", but I agree that it "has to improve"
The disagreement is based on the fact that not all change is a good thing. In fact some change can be very VERY bad for a game. This follows under the logic of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." There are too many good games I have seen over the years by the players over-suggesting unimportant buffs & nerfs that end up breaking the gameplay mechanics balance. The level 60 Mega D's and Backup Devices are only the latest example of that in this game. Bugs are also changes but not good. We don't need more bugs, we need improvements.
And the two to areas to improve? Bug fixes and new explorable content. Please employ some environmental artists (mappers)!!!
Consolidate the currencies! (Please!)
Does your Champion have a theme song? (share it!)
Got a funny in-game screenshot? (share it!)
Please fix the Overdrive energy unlock! (Should help promote thematic build diversity!)
I'm so sick of doves -.-
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Trailturtle is definitely a step in the right direction, this is a recent development. And G-Crush is fairly persistent down in the PTS forums.
I have no problem with player suggestions being ignored however by any development company. It is their game. Sure, sometimes suggestions will coincide with development direction. I'm less happy in games that have player driven or marketing driven development than I am following in someone elses game plan.
With all that said, programmers have to follow orders. The development team has bosses they have to answer too. Just because a bug lingers doesn't mean it is lack of interest on G-Crush's part for example.
Formerly Aeolwind
Nothing witty, just angst.
Primus Database of Characters
40 Count = 6
This is CO's chance to really redeem itself in the eyes of gamers - both it's small existant fanbase and potential players at large.
There are basically imo 3 things that need to be done:
1) Expand. The game needs to grow. New areas, new comic series (not one or the other - both), more and better stories - more stuff to do, essentially. Alerts are a nice diversion at times, but they aren't meaty, they aren't interesting.
2) Improve. Bugfixes really need to happen. Badly. I'm willing to tolerate a fair number of bugs, but it's really gotten out of hand lately.
3) Communicate. We need to hear from people. Trailturtle is being awesome, and I love that; but it's pretty darn quiet around here if not for him; and combined with the above one can easily get the impression that nobody cares what happens to CO.
All of which really requires not just Cryptic, but especially Perfect World to step up to the plate.
We need to know that the game is going to get bigger and better, and then we need them to actually follow through on it by growing the CO team to a reasonable size. This is why I was so adamant about trying to get the COH devs for CO - It's not that I doubt OUR devs, it's that there aren't enough OF them.
Let me put it this way - if CO were getting updates like COH was, this game would be in really good shape; because there's so much damn *potential* in this game; potential that needs to be realized ASAP or else a golden opportunity is gone; and we won't see another like it.
Check out my Champions Online webcomic in progress!
Annoying people since 2009!
This needs to happen next April.
...1st...3rd...and there was Kitchen Sink...6th..11th...76th...12th??...Illeventyseventh...42th..2nd and Elm Street....93rd...
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
You forgot Sesame Street and OVER 9000!
:rolleyes:
But Finn makes a good point here. Respect & admiration is earned, not just given.
Consolidate the currencies! (Please!)
Does your Champion have a theme song? (share it!)
Got a funny in-game screenshot? (share it!)
Please fix the Overdrive energy unlock! (Should help promote thematic build diversity!)
When XP earnings during a Double-XP Weekend still feel like I'm underperforming,
there's something terribly wrong with the reward system...
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Original Join Date: Feb 2010.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
Perfect World/Cryptic needs to stop treating Champions Online like the "Red-headed step-child" of the franchise.
You need to STOP head-hunting every dev that does a good job here for work over in STO and Neverwinter Nights. You need to develop a core of devs who LOVE this game as much as the players do and are willing to COMMUNICATE with them. That's what we had over in COH. That's a VERY large part of what made that game special. THEY LISTENED TO US.
Not only listened to us, but did incredibly COOL things in the process! How many times did they take a FORUM GAG and make it into in-game lore? (Go. Hunt. Kill Skuls.)
How many times did they take suggestions for costume pieces DIRECTLY from the fans and MAKE THEM HAPPEN?
You dev team for CO could do just as well. There have been several CO Devs who obviously loved the game and but every time we began to develop a working relationship with them you TOOK THEM AWAY.
Biggest example - Tumerboy! The whole thing with the lairs? That was him! Bring him back so he can add to the lairs like was in his original plan! That and more!
I'm sure other people can think of more examples. But that's the big one I can think of off the top of my head.
But more than that -
You have an influx of people who have proven they will NOT shut up and take things lying down. You had better DAMN well step up your game, because they - we - will NOT settle for anything less than excellence. Expect your forums to be PUMMELED and for us to find ways to contact you at the corporate level if you don't manage this property well.
Just ask NCSoft how much we take things lying down. They're beginning to learn what a PR nightmare they've incurred.
*cracks knuckles*
Don't make us come over there.
*takes a bite of tobacco*
*picks up an axe*
*spits*
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
But only if Cryptic allocates the proper resources to CO, to keep bugs to an absolute minimum while rolling out new content.
I'm really struggling to decide whether or not I'm going to continue my Gold access to CO. The game has potential, but...geez...the BUGS!!! Maybe during my 4 years of playing CoH I became spoiled by the professionalism, focus, and staff-size of Paragon Studios. Maybe I got used to major bugs being quickly caught and squished. Maybe I got used to the regular back-and-forth with actual devs on the forums (not just the CM) that let me know "HEY! There's a studio full of devs still working on this game!"
I've been playing for a MONTH now and so far:
* I haven't gotten a SINGLE skill gain from investigating Arms crates (bug).
* The only big event I've experienced (Mega-D invasion) had to be pulled (bugs).
* The two adventure packs I've tried are so buggy that they are basically unplayable.
With CoH shutting down...finding Champions in such a state of neglect is very, very disheartening.
Take the strength of the Champions License and invest in a future with actual revenue and development.
Cryptic is pretty much hip deep, if not deeper, in the middle of another project. Probably have a lot of investment in the project. Considering how out of the blue the closing of City of Heroes was, I doubt Cryptic expected CoH to not be here anytime soon either.
Though they are supposedly hiring more people, especially now from two defunct studios, the issue at hand, even if they got them on CO last month, the earliest we would see any real results won't be until earlier next year. even pretending that they have seasoned veterans of the Cryptic engine from the other studios, they would still have to be trained as CoH engine is still vastly different from the CO one.
Do I think they need to put a lot more effort into Champions? Yes, I do. But realistically, anything they tried to do to meet a deadline of City of Heroes close date would probably be half **** at best because of such a constrained time period. The best they could probably do from now and then is squash bugs with any major content releases looking at early next year release.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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Clean up the alternate leveling paths like Alerts and the major AP/CS stuff. New players dont need new content, at least not yet. They need good, clean content.
Right now is the time to say forget the destroyer event, get blood moon absolutely perfect, bust out a great winter welcome event, and tighten the parts that look less appealing.
Release an extra free and pad AT or return the AT rotation program, and loosen the character creator restrictions - the CoX crowd is not going to be the crowd that will appreciate tailor hand holding, they will be the crowd that will flip their **** because some obscure pattern isn't immedately available.
Lower the nemesis requirement to 15 or 20 and for craps sake put it a little closer to anything so the nemesis alerts are padded with actual nems and the game feels a little more alive and interactive.
Finally hold a community BASH and CC event, or a PvP Tournament in the Martial Arts Dojo to make it seem like more of the map is actually being used than actually is.
CoXpats don't need new, they need tight. If they can be sustained with shinies for a couple months, then it's likely they'll stay long enough to meaningfully impact our population, and therefore, Cryptic's income. All the best features should be up front and center.
Then handle the rest like Gromit frantically laying track before a train.
Well put and I agree 100%.
The best thing that Cryptic can do right now is to devote energy into fixing current issues, putting some polish on the most tarnished bits and then worry about new content after.
New players have at least a month or 3 worth of stuff to check out, they aren't going to leave because of no new content anytime soon, because most of the stuff in CO is new content to them.
Having broken content on the other hand can and will cause people to leave.
I think the situation changed, but CO still has the mark of being the forsaken brother in the Cryptic family, the best clothing and food is for the other brothers including the unborn ones. Unfortunately, I dont have a reason to believe that PWE changed that vision.
However, with the highly likely closing of CoH there is a potential pool of players in which CO has the advantage to catch under normal conditions.
My proposal is that Cryptic at least temporarily(at least 6 months) reinforce CO's team by lending resources from STO(I won't say NWO since it is on development and currently it is like their crown jewel) the same way CO lent resources to STO at some point.
With a reinforced team they wil have 2 main objectives:
1) To iron the code to make the current content playable. There is no excuse for a AP or CS to not be completable, if some boss or npc is bug, take it out while debugging.
2) To add content beyond a new alert every 3 months. No more mechanics or framework reviews(yes, they might be important but not that urgent). It does not have to be super stylish, you can reuse things for instance:
a) Endgame versions of low level Lairs, just need to tweek the final fight and surprise you got a cheap lvl 40
b) Generic zone, I know many people might hate this but how about just street wiping on Resistance alternate MC or even some missions there. Most of the stuff is already there it is only needed to put some instanced missions and some consistency.
c) Some consistency on pvp to encourage participation.
I hope in the light of the opportunity something will be done. If this opportunity is missed due to lack of caring from Cryptic/PWE I will have to conclude that they have CO on the lowest priority and will put no more than the minimal effort in the game.
Yeah .. i remember the same was said a year ago, when Cryptic brought out the first
Until Report and there was talk about new zones in future, and also it was posted that
they hire new devs.
Meanwhile i sadly think that the same will be said next year .. and also the following
but all we will get are may X-Wing fighters and Space Alerts .. but new Zones will
never be more then a carrot on the stick
Really beldin :rolleyes: Considering most of that UNTIL report was done, and oh look, you can run down the list of the current UNTIL report and see most of what is on it has been finished.
All you do is try to post negative in spite of the fact the opposite can be proven. Just because your personal wish list never gets touched.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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The new zone mentioned in the first UNTIL report and in the latest UNTIL report is under "The Future" which anyone with even basic reading comprehension would understand to mean "Stuff we're talking about doing, but haven't even begun to put on a project list yet."
So to be upset because it hasn't happened yet, is a bit like being upset because we haven't developed a fully matrix like Virtual World to play MMO's in.
Cryptic has hired new devs from Studio 38 and Paragon but saying ur off poking ur Norn in GW2 you wouldnt know that.
May X-Wings...wut the hell is wrong with September jets
*insert stupid reply with over use of rolley eyes here*
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
This is true, and any project is always subject to change because of one reason or another. I think that having to get their network hooked into PWe and change infrastructure and code base around might have had something to do with several things being back burnered.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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*throw's catnip at Nepht*
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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Frankly, I feel that the quantity of content is available, it's the game/mission-stopping bugs that are preventing their use.
Certainly I like the direction of these newer events, but each time one comes in, it winds up replacing one or more other missions/events due to the older missions becoming bugged.
-=-=-=-=-=-(CO in-game handle: @WarCan )-=-=-=-=-=-
"Okay, you're DEAD, what do you do NEXT?"
All i said is that "in far future" means maybe never, and not something like in a year.
And yeah of cause we have gotten alerts and even moar alerts, so everyone is happy that
they have done that part of the Until Report, and everyone will be happy with that for the
next 5 years if we get even moar alerts and maybe Vehicle Alerts.
But beware of creating new zones. Oh .. and you as a big team player should maybe also
have noticed that not even the Lair Review has been finished, or that they don't even
started with it. But ok .. you had fun with running Gravitar 1.000.000 times and will have
with doing it another million times. Great for you .. but not for everyone else.
Yes, I know the lair review hasn't been done, but that's my personal wish, and considering how anti-team you are (and please don't even try to deny that one since you hate anything about teaming, such as roles, better loot for teams only, etc etc etc) this shouldn't bother you. But I also understand that stuff happens and the best laid plans might have to be sidelined until later. Such as FREON and Blaze, and honestly I prefer that one to be sidelined, since the mechanics are even more advanced than Gravitar, something a PUG couldn't handle basically. Especially since you are in the crowd that firmly believes Gravitar is too hard.
I can also look at the fact that they are hiring new developers, and between probably having to do a lot of back end work to merge their network with PWE, hiccups are to be expected. But you wouldn't know anything about that since every new game that comes out you keep proclaiming their team as vastly superior coders.
Though I am not overly fond of Alerts, I do understand why they did them, because it was something that they could do to create new content that was easy to add to (relatively) to their resources they had. But resources seem to be the thing you never actually understand either Beldin.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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Look at the patch notes for today.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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I do. What's your point?
My point is, they need to work on MORE BUGS getting fixed.
Do I appreciate a patch that addresses mostly bug fixes? Of course.
Do I think it's a drop in the bucket of BUGS needing their attention? Resoundingly YES.
Edit: *sigh* It's pretty sad when you see that even the bug fixes don't actually work. Just look at the thread you referenced.
Sorry if my tone seems angry (or directed towards any other player). But, it gets exasperating when the Devs just churn out "content" and don't address bugs (in a more comprehensive fashion).
-=-=-=-=-=-(CO in-game handle: @WarCan )-=-=-=-=-=-
"Okay, you're DEAD, what do you do NEXT?"