Another CoH Refugee, Another Batclone

Comments

• sturmwolf65 Posts: 66 Arc User

  September 2012 edited September 2012

  I miss a really hard hitting single target attack to handle the bosses.

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• lukasthedead Posts: 14 Arc User

  September 2012 edited September 2012

  First off, welcome to CO! You seem to have done a lot of research for making your freeform
  
  To answer your side questions, for now night warrior is the only way to get stealth and yes, Shadow Strike also comes with night warrior. Shadow Strike does massive amounts of damage when used from stealth and almost nothing if you've been knocked out of stealth.
  
  I have a few suggestions on your powers.
  
  First, I doubt you need both Smoke Bomb and Evasive Manuevers w/ Slight of Mind. I'd pick one (EM is my favorite). Also, no need to rank up EM if you have Slight of Mind. Slight of mind will make things forget about attacking you and so there is little need to up your dodge rate in the short term if nothing will be attacking you.
  
  And if you drop one of them, I'd recommend grabbing one of those control powers you want to try out. Remember the Powerhouse has rooms for you to test your attacks and you (as a subscriber) can join the test server and test your build at level 40.
  
  I don't know that you'll end up wanting both thrown blades and Ricochet Throw, so maybe you could swap out Thrown Blades for something else. Inexorable Tides is fun, or maybe a maintain/charge attack to get a little more DPS.
  
  I've never really been fond of ranking Forms, it's often better to take your attacks to rank 3 (or get their special advantage). Also, with Dex as your primary, i'd go with Form of the Tempest (from Dual blades) over Form of the Master. Partly because you'll build up your Form Stack faster, but mostly because Form of the Master only builds up stacks if things are hitting on you. Solo that should be no problem, but in groups your tank should be taking the blows and with Smoke Bomb or EM w/ slight of mind you will be losing aggro. So, I'd go with Form of The Tempest and get your focus stacks from attacking things (which you will always be doing).
  
  Masterful Dodge doesn't really need to be ranked either, but it's special advantage is fairly nice.
  
  Also, I'd swap out one of your melee attacks for a "dragon" melee attack so you can get the energy rush buff from your form.
  
  However, most of this is fine-tuning. You've done your homework well.
  
  Still, here is my edit of your build: http://powerhouse.nullware.com/powerhouse.html?v=5&n=&d=1243ZHGMKLC9040D000DC07DD057505DF0WDI05D605DN03A6007G006604DL04DK047K043Ugo2MGB3bpp

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• cptvanor Posts: 274 Arc User

  September 2012 edited September 2012

  lukasthedead wrote: »

  I don't know that you'll end up wanting both thrown blades and Ricochet Throw

  
  Doesn't Throw Blades have a bigger AoE effect then Ricochet Throw? I know RT can hit more then one target, and hit some targets more then once. But with the little bit I've played with it, it doesn't seem to be reliable for a AoE type power.

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• lukasthedead Posts: 14 Arc User

  September 2012 edited September 2012

  Unless things have changed in an update most AoE powers cap out at hitting 5 targets at one time, I think the Blood Moon devices will hit 10. With that cap, most baddies will be close enough for Ricochet Throw to bounce to, in addition to it not being limited to a cone (it can go around you or in a line or wherever the connections take it).
  
  There are times where it will hit more and times when it will hit less, but I don't know if it will be often enough to warrant a second power choice.

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• cptvanor Posts: 274 Arc User

  September 2012 edited September 2012

  lukasthedead wrote: »

  Unless things have changed in an update most AoE powers cap out at hitting 5 targets at one time...

  
  True, but in my experience, it doesn't always seem to hit everything in a single spawn. Now that's based on very limited testing, so I could be wrong.
  
  With the little bit I tested it, it seemed that Throw was a better option for a larger spawn or a spread out group. Ricochet seems to be very nice for either a small spawn or even a single target.

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• alfinpogform Posts: 42 Arc User

  September 2012 edited September 2012

  I had Throwing Blades and Ricochet Throw for a little while. I found myself just about never using Throwing Blades. Ricochet Throw just about always hit every mob in the spawn more consistently for me.

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• shaenthebrain Posts: 111 Arc User

  September 2012 edited September 2012

  Thanks for all the input! I've taken a couple of characters through the tutorial now, and so far, I'm really enjoying this game.
  

  sturmwolf65 wrote: »

  I miss a really hard hitting single target attack to handle the bosses.

  A glaring oversight, to be sure. I was thinking more in terms of getting a couple of single-target attacks and a couple of AoEs, but I should also look at the sheer damage, and damage-to-energy ratio, to make sure I've got both a workhorse and a top-tier beatdown.
  

  lukasthedead wrote: »

  First off, welcome to CO! You seem to have done a lot of research for making your freeform

  Thanks. I didn't want to waste anyone's time more than I had to.
  

  To answer your side questions, for now night warrior is the only way to get stealth and yes, Shadow Strike also comes with night warrior. Shadow Strike does massive amounts of damage when used from stealth and almost nothing if you've been knocked out of stealth.

  Hide and Assassin's Strike from the CoH Stalker sets. Got it.
  

  First, I doubt you need both Smoke Bomb and Evasive Manuevers w/ Slight of Mind. I'd pick one (EM is my favorite). Also, no need to rank up EM if you have Slight of Mind. Slight of mind will make things forget about attacking you and so there is little need to up your dodge rate in the short term if nothing will be attacking you.

  Good call. I do see a lot of overlap there, now that you mention it; they're both "panic buttons" (which is, ultimately, what I guess both Active Offenses and Active Defenses are?).
  

  I don't know that you'll end up wanting both thrown blades and Ricochet Throw

  This is one of those areas in which the wiki not being updated is particularly frustrating. How do each of those powers actually work? Are they clicks, or charges, or maintains, or what? I at least know now what the areas of effect are like, thanks to the prior discussion.
  

  I've never really been fond of ranking Forms, it's often better to take your attacks to rank 3 (or get their special advantage).

  This is exactly the kind of advice I was looking for.
  

  Also, with Dex as your primary, i'd go with Form of the Tempest (from Dual blades) over Form of the Master.

  The logic seems sound. Tempest would be more consistent.

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• doll1989 Posts: 124 Arc User

  September 2012 edited September 2012

  If I am correct, ricochet throw is concidered to be a single target power that does AOE damage... I know, sound weird. It works that way. You choose 1 target, you can tap or charge it (as I heard tapping is better with single targets, but charging is much better from stealth when attacking groups), after it hits 1st target it will ricochet into another closest target, then into another and so on. If you fully charge it from stealth it will split into 2 blades and ricochet into 2 targets instead of 1. Thrown blades as I remember is a maintain power (hold and watch it hit enemys every 0,5/1 seconds for as long as you hold key). It's AOE area is a cone (120 degree?).
  
  Ow, and if all of the new players were like you... I am allways happy to help others if I can and I myself ask alot of questions, but I hate to see people asking questions like "should I take passive or is it optional?". Good job on your research, good job.

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• tdits Posts: 561 Arc User

  September 2012 edited September 2012

  Yeah, Ricochet Throw is a pretty interesting power:
  Out of stealth it does more damage to a single target if you tap it than if you charge it.
  In stealth it will kill an entire spawn with one charge.
  
  And spawns are normally far enough apart that you can go back into stealth and kill the next spawn without anyone noticing.
  
  The only issue is really that Assassins Strike does jack all to Alert bosses other than aggro them, so you're either going to want a decent out of stealth single target attack for alert bosses or just tap spam Ricochet Throw at them ad nausea.

  ____________________________________
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• lukasthedead Posts: 14 Arc User

  September 2012 edited September 2012

  shaenthebrain wrote: »

  Good call. I do see a lot of overlap there, now that you mention it; they're both "panic buttons" (which is, ultimately, what I guess both Active Offenses and Active Defenses are?).

  
  Active Defenses can be panic buttons, but I find Masterful Dodge requires a little more insight than just "My Health Bar just dropped a bunch!" With it I often go "All those guys (or that big boss) just turned my way, time to be sure Bountiful Chi Resurgence is running and hit Masterful Dodge!" So, in this case your Active Defense is panic prevention and EM is "well, Masterful Dodge just ran out, time to dump aggro!"
  
  So, if you are testing your build in the powerhouse and are soloing groups the game says are setup for 5 people, then I recommend you hit Masterful Dodge somewhere between your opening attack and the horde reaching you.
  
  Active Offenses are things I recommend you run whenever they popup. It's too easy to say, "well those guys are just too weak for me to worry about running this with, let me save it for something big." Then you end up using it far less often than you could. Any fight with something big enough for you to be saving the Active Offense will last long enough for it to cycle up. I recommend running and enjoying them.
  
  

  shaenthebrain wrote: »

  This is one of those areas in which the wiki not being updated is particularly frustrating. How do each of those powers actually work? Are they clicks, or charges, or maintains, or what? I at least know now what the areas of effect are like, thanks to the prior discussion.

  
  doll1989 seems to have hit this one up nicely, so I'll just commiserate with you over the current state of information. When I'm getting a new power that I'm not sure exactly how it works, or have only read about on the forums/wiki, I always take the time to go to the powerhouse rather than updating in the field. That way I can go into the test chambers, try it out, and then remove it if I don't like it. Even well through out builds that you tested on the Test Server can change as you get field experience with them.
  
  Speaking of the Test Server, you seem well on your way to being a Build Engineer, I'd recommend you sign up for it: http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=124184
  
  It is a wonderful place to tests your builds before bringing them over to the live server.

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• beldin Posts: 1,708 Arc User

  September 2012 edited September 2012

  I also can only repeat what has been said about better taking Form of the Tempest.
  
  Else .. i often rank my forms, but only if i don't need the points elswhere. And that means
  first my Attacks, Passive and Heals have to be R3
  
  With R3 Form of the Tempest it is however possible to have full 8 stacks in 5 seconds.

  
  

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• shaenthebrain Posts: 111 Arc User

  October 2012 edited October 2012

  I've played around with Form of The Tempest, and it's incredible. I'm routinely sitting on 5 stacks of Focus halfway through a fight, and that's unranked.
  
  I'm curious about the optimal Talent choices: Is it better to use talents to increase your super-stats, or to shore up the non-super stats? I've got DEX, INT, and CON superfied. If I assign my talents to the other 4 stats I care about (STR, EGO, REC, & END), I could get +15 to each of them.

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• shaenthebrain Posts: 111 Arc User

  October 2012 edited October 2012

  Here's the revised build:
  
  PowerHouse (Link to this build)
  
  Name:
  
  Archetype: Freeform
  
  Super Stats:
  Level 6: Dexterity (Primary)
  Level 10: Intelligence (Secondary)
  Level 15: Constitution (Secondary)
  
  Talents:
  Level 1: The Fist
  Level 6: Professional Athlete
  Level 9: Amazing Stamina
  Level 12: Relentless
  Level 15: Daredevil
  Level 18: Bodybuilder
  Level 21: Wordly
  
  Powers:
  Level 1: Righteous Fists
  Level 1: Night Warrior (Rank 2, Rank 3)
  Level 6: Parry (The Elusive Monk)
  Level 8: Ricochet Throw (Rank 2, Microelectronic Controllers)
  Level 11: Rising Knee (Rank 2, Flowing Strikes)
  Level 14: Elbow Slam (Rank 2, Falling Hammer)
  Level 17: Dragon Kick (Rank 2, Lashing Dragon Tail)
  Level 20: Form of the Tempest
  Level 23: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Resurgent Reiki)
  Level 26: Molecular Self-Assembly
  Level 29: Evasive Maneuvers (Sleight of Mind)
  Level 32: Masterful Dodge (Unfettered Strikes)
  Level 35: Intensity
  Level 38: Smoke Bomb Lunge (Nailed to the Ground)
  
  Travel Powers:
  Level 6: Acrobatics (Rank 2, Rank 3)
  Level 35: Swinging (Rank 2, Rank 3)
  
  Specializations:
  Dexterity: Combat Training (3/3)
  Dexterity: Brush It Off (2/2)
  Dexterity: Evasion (2/2)
  Dexterity: Deadly Aim (3/3)
  Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
  Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
  Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
  Vindicator: Mass Destruction (2/3)
  Mastery: Dexterity Mastery (1/1)

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• vorshoth Posts: 603 Arc User

  October 2012 edited October 2012

  Ooh. This is a pretty nice build, from what I've tested thus far. I wasn't aware of how fun the Night Warrior changes has made Stealth be. All the Westside missions have a totally different feel to them when you're sneaking around, hoping they don't roll a perception check, and then doing a Shadow Strike to whichever main boss there is on the mission (The Brains Behind the Breakout is kinda an anti-climax as a Batclone build, for example, as you can just slip past everyone, and just after Zoe's finished her speech, HAPPY SLAP HER HEAD INTO UNCONSCIOUSNESS!). Ricochet Throw, with the advantages, is pretty good as well if you absolutely have to deal with mooks.
  Experimenting in Alerts, admittedly at low level, around 9-12, it's pretty useful. Whilst in stealth, you do a fair bit of damage, so, your main strategy is going to be hanging back a bit without your energy builder, and doing your rather strongly hitting attacks periodically, taking a breather from time to time to let your stealth come back up. I've yet to lose any Alerts thus far except for Gemini's train one, and let's face it, that's a tough one on most builds what with the duplication mechanic he has.
  
  Hmm. I think I might use this set up until level 12ish, then diversify into other things for other situations based on individual character theme since this, as it is, is actually fine for me, and I've actually bookmarked the Powerhouse link... I guess the later Unarmed powers are there so you don't necessarily have to take a breather to get your stealth back up, and so you can do the whole brawling vigilante style fight that fits the concept better?
  
  I like this build, since it's been lovely to play thus far with the small initial set of powers at the beginning of it.

  [SIGNATURE REDACTED]

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• rhymere

  rhymere#3035

  Posts: 486 Arc User

  October 2012 edited October 2012

  This is what I use. You can replace throwing blades with richochet throw:
  
  http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=2333251

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• shaenthebrain Posts: 111 Arc User

  February 2013 edited February 2013

  After some more playtesting, on both the live and test servers, and reading and re-reading Captain Millenium's excellent "Survivable Night Warrior" thread, this is the current build:
  
  PowerHouse (Link to this build)
  
  Name:
  
  Archetype: Freeform
  
  Super Stats:
  Level 6: Dexterity (Primary)
  Level 10: Intelligence (Secondary)
  Level 15: Constitution (Secondary)
  
  Talents:
  Level 1: The Fist
  Level 6: Wordly
  Level 9: Professional Athlete
  Level 12: Relentless
  Level 15: Physical Conditioning
  Level 18: Ascetic
  Level 21: Academics
  
  Powers:
  Level 1: Vicious Strikes
  Level 1: Night Warrior (Rank 2, Rank 3)
  Level 6: Thundering Kicks (Rank 2, Rank 3)
  Level 8: Ricochet Throw (Rank 2, Rank 3)
  Level 11: Dragon Kick (Rank 2, Rank 3)
  Level 14: Form of the Tempest (Rank 2, Rank 3)
  Level 17: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Rank 2, Resurgent Reiki)
  Level 20: Parry (The Elusive Monk)
  Level 23: Intensity
  Level 26: Masterful Dodge
  Level 29: Evasive Maneuvers (Sleight of Mind)
  Level 32: Smoke Grenade (Escape Artist)
  Level 35: Bolas (Nailed to the Ground)
  Level 38: Molecular Self-Assembly
  
  Travel Powers:
  Level 6: Acrobatics (Rank 2, Rank 3)
  Level 35: Swinging (Rank 2)
  
  Specializations:
  Dexterity: Combat Training (3/3)
  Dexterity: Gear Utilization (2/3)
  Dexterity: Evasion (2/2)
  Dexterity: Quick Reflexes (3/3)
  Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
  Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
  Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
  Vindicator: Mass Destruction (2/3)
  Warden: Fortified Gear (2/3)
  Warden: Slaughter (3/3)
  Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
  Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
  Mastery: Dexterity Mastery (1/1)
  
  I've found that I really don't have time or room in my attack cycle for more than a workhourse spam-attack, an energy builder, and a big gun.
  
  Since I'm starting every fight from stealth, either with a Shadow Strike or a Ricochet Throw, I can't see the need for a lunge power.
  
  Gas Pellets are awesome and flavorful, but redundant. If I reach the same point the Cap did, where I find that the active defense and/or the parry are redundant as well, then I'll consider making room for the pellets again.
  
  I'm still on the fence when it comes to in-set active offenses vs the FOTM Ego Surge (+Nimble Mind).

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• shaenthebrain Posts: 111 Arc User

  March 2014 edited March 2014

  I wound up leveling 3 other characters to 40 before coming back around and getting this guy leveled and geared. Fighting Claws wound up suiting him better than Unarmed did, visually, conceptually, and mechanically, so that's what took him from 20 to 40.
  
  He was DEX primary and Wardicator the whole way, but I'm toying with switching to INT and Warden/Brawler (after seeing people like Monsterdaddy and Captain Millennium sing Brawler's praises).
  
  I played around with the various Gadgeteering toys. Bolas don't seem to last long enough to be worth it. But Gas Pellets seem quite effective, and are a lot of fun.
  
  I've actually stopped using Shadow Strike altogether, unless I'm in a hurry or in a bad mood. Otherwise, it's too boring. Instead, I'll let Gas Pellets and Ricochet Throw take out the henchmen, and then I'll lunge into melee with the bosses.
  
  INT primary is intriguing in part because of the ridiculous level of defense penetration he'd pile up. INT 250ish would give him around -20%. Night Warrior gives another -10%. Penetrating Strikes from the Brawler specialization gives another -10% for Dragon's Claw. Finally, Viper's Fangs applies Shredded, which is another 10%, 20% for itself and Dragon's Claw. That's 30-60% of every boss's damage resistance ignored on every strike. That seems worth giving up the crit severity from the DEX tree.
  
  I have no idea what to take for the second travel power. His vehicle works for outdoor movement, and Acrobatics gives him all the mobility he needs indoors and in combat. I tried taking Swinging for Flippin', but switching back and forth, or just leaving Swinging on during fights, were equally obnoxious.
  
  He's a lot of fun for normal content or adventure packs, but alerts and lairs chew him up and spit him out. I'm considering taking Lightning Reflexes as a second passive and switching to Hybrid role for those.
  
  Here's what the INT primary build would look like:
  
  Role: Brawler
  
  Archetype: Freeform
  
  Stats:
  Strength: 77
  Dexterity: 251
  Constitution: 122
  Intelligence: 250
  Ego: 72
  Presence: 10
  Recovery: 28
  Endurance: 10
  
  Super Stats:
  Level 6: Intelligence (Primary, +80)
  Level 10: Dexterity (Secondary, +40)
  Level 15: Constitution (Secondary, +40)
  
  Talents:
  Level 1: The Fist (STR 15, DEX 15, INT 15, REC 13)
  Level 6: Brilliant (INT +8)
  Level 9: Coordinated (DEX +5, INT +5)
  Level 12: Healthy Mind (CON +5, INT +5)
  Level 15: Negotiator (INT +5, REC +5)
  Level 18: Impresario (DEX +5, REC +5)
  Level 21: Quick Recovery (CON +5, REC +5)
  
  Powers: (2 Ranks left)
  Level 1: Boomerang Toss
  Level 1: Viper's Fangs (Rank 2, Spitting Cobra)
  Level 6: Night Warrior (Rank 2, Rank 3)
  Level 8: Ricochet Throw (Rank 2, Rank 3)
  Level 11: Form of the Tempest
  Level 14: Smoke Bomb Lunge
  Level 17: Molecular Self-Assembly
  Level 20: Dragon's Claws (Rank 2, Rank 3)
  Level 23: Parry (The Elusive Monk)
  Level 26: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Rank 2, Resurgent Reiki)
  Level 29: Lock N Load (Rank 2)
  Level 32: Masterful Dodge
  Level 35: Thundering Kicks (Rank 2, Rank 3)
  Level 38: Gas Pellets (Rank 2, Oversized Pellet Bag)
  
  Travel Powers:
  Level 6: Acrobatics (Rank 2)
  Level 35: ?
  
  Specializations:
  Intelligence: Enlightened (3/3)
  Intelligence: Tactician (2/2)
  Intelligence: Detect Vulnerability (3/3)
  Intelligence: Expertise (2/2)
  Warden: Fortified Gear (2/3)
  Warden: Slaughter (3/3)
  Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
  Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
  Brawler: No Escape (1/3)
  Brawler: Penetrating Strikes (2/2)
  Brawler: Ruthless (2/2)
  Brawler: Finishing Blow (3/3)
  Brawler: Setup (2/2)
  Mastery: Warden Mastery (1/1)
  
  Gear:
  Primary Offense: Heroic Gloves of Precision (R7 Gambler's Lucky Gem, R7 STR +62, R7 EGO +62)
  Primary Defense: Heroic Breastplate of Agility (R7 Gambler's Lucky Gem, R7 DEX +62, R7 DEX +62)
  Primary Utility: Heroic Helm of Efficiency (R7 Gambler's Lucky Gem, R7 DEX +62, R7 CON +62)
  Secondary Offense: Vigilante's Critical Belt (INT +44)
  Secondary Defense: Vigilante's Armored Bracers (INT +44)
  Secondary Utility: Vigilante's Efficient Eyepiece (INT +44)

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