PvP (HG ethics)

wesleytansg · September 2012

This is strictly my opinion. Is an SG war the only way to boost PvP and HG? What is with the ganking practice? Do we PvP to improve skills or do we do it in order to plaster ourselves with false ego that we were able to defeat another player (who jolly well may have a weaker build). Why are we seeing PvPers who go after the easiest kills. Why do we see groups of PvPers grouping together to kill another player? Does that in anyway prove them stronger? Does that give them honour?

Sadly, it is just shameful to see. And it leaves an aftertaste of disgust at the state of PvP. If anyone wants to do team PvP, then organise and queue for UTC. Why go into BASH and group together to kill 1 player. Too weak to fight on his/her own? Need to copy another build in order to have a chance of winning? I am still fine if people want to copy builds and learn the game with an advantage but copy a build and start to duel and challenge people in RC so as to show how mighty they are? Just shameful, pleas go reflect.

I only have this to say if anyone was ever at the receiving end of such behaviour. If you do not like it done to you then don't do it to others. BASH is free for all and should be played that way. If SGs have policies of not killing or attacking their own members, please do not queue for BASH, go to UTC or team-based HGs. Like to gank? Play ZA, you can have everyone ganking you or be with everyone else ganking another person.

Also, it is easy to kill the weakest opponent who unwittingly steps into BASH. Regular PvPers with optimized builds have no problem killing an unwary AT in less than 10 secs. Is that how we want it? Already there are so few who queues for HG. But any newcomers will learn very fast not to repeat the humiliation and total defeat.

(and oh, in case anyone thinks this is a whining post, far off by a wide margin, just do not like what I see happening to others, be they from my own SG or other SGs)

l1ghtstar · September 2012

Sort of read your thread, and I agree to what I read. I happen to have video of when a group of AEs were just standing there, chatting, I casually get in front and start chatting too, kill me (presumably when they figured I'm not AE) and HOVER over to where my toon will respawn, ready to kill me again.

nesn00000 · September 2012

It very clearly states for Bash at the bottom of the loading screen in the tips* "Players can work together or against each other to win the match."

That being said.

As the longest standing T4 PVP SG Altered Egos policy discourages unnecessary teaming of individuals NOT affiliated with an SG whom has publically declared war upon us.

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nesn00000 · September 2012

wesleytansg wrote: »

This is strictly my opinion. Is an SG war the only way to boost PvP and HG? What is with the ganking practice?

You need to know the history of the UAS to understand the answer to this question.

secksegai · September 2012

nesn00000 wrote: »

It very clearly states for Bash at the bottom of the loading screen in the tips* "Players can work together or against each other to win the match."

That being said.

As the longest standing T4 PVP SG Altered Egos policy discourages unnecessary teaming of individuals NOT affiliated with an SG whom has publically declared war upon us.

-

I can attest to this. There's no way as one of the last Spectre members actively engaging in HG that I'd be able to win if this wasn't the case. I know what it's like to farm and be farmed, and what it's like for people to try to farm me.

For example, if it's 2 AE and me, unless one of the said AE is Paragon, I don't worry about a constant 2 vs me fight, which is typical when facing 2 DC.

However, I don't feel an "SG War" is ideal for pvp activity - Since Crush hasn't made pvp rewarding in it's own right, the player base needs to make it rewarding for each other.

My last bash it was me, Ryio, Ryder (yes ryder) and Alodylis. I could have ended the match much sooner, but once I had the win in the bag (working towards perk, reward for me), I let off, allowing ryio and Ryder to go at it for a bit, then Ryder and Alodylis. Ryder ended up enjoying himself far more and was ready for another q when just previously he had been annoyed and frustrated.

Aside from working the dynamic, the only other option we've got left is offering rewards out of our own pocket to entire pvpers. The potential is there, as there are faces I see that aren't as regular as many others. Of course, organizing it for a time and place is the bigger challenge, something I know Paragon had planned to do for a while.

lovehammer1 · September 2012

wesleytansg wrote: »

This is strictly my opinion. Is an SG war the only way to boost PvP and HG? What is with the ganking practice? Do we PvP to improve skills or do we do it in order to plaster ourselves with false ego that we were able to defeat another player (who jolly well may have a weaker build). Why are we seeing PvPers who go after the easiest kills. Why do we see groups of PvPers grouping together to kill another player? Does that in anyway prove them stronger? Does that give them honour?

Sadly, it is just shameful to see. And it leaves an aftertaste of disgust at the state of PvP. If anyone wants to do team PvP, then organise and queue for UTC. Why go into BASH and group together to kill 1 player. Too weak to fight on his/her own? Need to copy another build in order to have a chance of winning? I am still fine if people want to copy builds and learn the game with an advantage but copy a build and start to duel and challenge people in RC so as to show how mighty they are? Just shameful, pleas go reflect.

I only have this to say if anyone was ever at the receiving end of such behaviour. If you do not like it done to you then don't do it to others. BASH is free for all and should be played that way. If SGs have policies of not killing or attacking their own members, please do not queue for BASH, go to UTC or team-based HGs. Like to gank? Play ZA, you can have everyone ganking you or be with everyone else ganking another person.

Also, it is easy to kill the weakest opponent who unwittingly steps into BASH. Regular PvPers with optimized builds have no problem killing an unwary AT in less than 10 secs. Is that how we want it? Already there are so few who queues for HG. But any newcomers will learn very fast not to repeat the humiliation and total defeat.

(and oh, in case anyone thinks this is a whining post, far off by a wide margin, just do not like what I see happening to others, be they from my own SG or other SGs)

I have played this game for a long time. I used to love BASH. ZA was fun too. Then something happened!! SG's and team up's of 4on1, 3on1, 2on1 started...in bash??
This was about a year or more ago...at first it wasn't that bad because most builds were different from one another and copy builds were not a big deal. So, it sucked a bit to be ganked, but you had a chance if you could get a match up in your favor and attack that
build. At least that's what i used to do.

As for killing the weakest build. That's going to happen, teams or not. It's pvp. Some people don't play fair. Also, a lot of friends from COH are here now, many have tried bash.
Many things you mentioned in your post are many of the reasons they will not return to bash or hero games. Period!

So, though i understand your post and agree with most of it. PVP is destroying itself with it's SG wars and battles...with everybody else caught in the middle.
Fact. I had 7 people come over from COH. 7 tried Bash and other hero games. only 1 will que up again!

Also, just to be fair. I'm talking about tier 4 bash. Some of my friends still que for under lvl
30 hero games.

lady808 · September 2012

I first experienced teaming/ganging up during a BASH match awhile ago. Two people from some new SG started ganging up on everyone else in the match (me being the only one in that match other than those two). It wasn't fun then and I'm sure it isn't very fun now. This happened prior to the whole AoPM trend now (yes, it happened AWHILE ago). So it wasn't part of some "SG Warz" thingy.

I don't do HG matches very often now unless I'm asked to by people I consider friends. I do hang out in the RenCen to duel though. So I have noticed the trend of challenging/picking fights with people who are obviously never going to beat you. It being PvP, I frown on that sort of thing, but it's not my place to tell these people what to do.

Myself, I have my own set of rules which I follow to the best of my ability. Win or loose, I try to treat all fights like practice. That's what they are to me basically. Running a melee build, I'm at a serious disadvantage against the "gold standard" builds for PvP now. So I go into fights expecting to loose, but trying my best because I can only improve from the experience (no one is more surprised than I am when I DO win by the way).

I tend to pick fights/challenge people/character's that I know have beaten me before because they present a challenge. I don't normally pick fights with people I've beaten before (unless I forgot I fought you before that is) because it makes no sense to me. Some people think I'm "raging". This is far from the truth. Why would I want to duel with people I know I can beat when I have this perfect partner right here who has already beaten me before?

Imbue abusing, AoPM build, Stealth abusing, etc, etc, etc.. It makes no difference to me usually because I know I have a challenge on my hands trying to win. The perfect dance partner for practicing.

lovehammer1 · September 2012

Imbue abusing, AoPM build, Stealth abusing, etc, etc, etc.. It makes no difference to me usually because I know I have a challenge on my hands trying to win. The perfect dance partner for practicing. Ok

Ok. You had me til the last part. With so many same like builds out there. The main "one" you just discribed in fact. Isn't it like fighting the same build over and over? What happens
when you beat that build and then the next is a carbon copy?

Do you still fight that build? Or do you think it's a skill based challenge? Just asking.
Not trying to pick a fight. I really would like to know.

Thank you in advance.

alodylis · September 2012

Problem is with PvP people got outa there way to find you and team up against you if your there enemy. Then we got you max perception builds who target you so far away and always seem to hide very well against non perception. Not complaining about it but when you only go for one person unless he is wining the match you have no right as a Decent pvper. Killing the weaklings constantly is just bad mojo. Even if you dislike that person dont you dare ever spawn kill someone unless there ready to fight you. Most cases you get stuned on respawn and killed before you can react its not fair for anyone.

There are good number of people who go against me like that but i try my best to avoid those ganking which i can do about 50% of the time. However i find it funny tho yesterday i was geting teamed up by these two people that are just friends. So i said to him you better stop teaming up on me or ill quit. He said he was sorry and they stoped it. (more joined to) so maybe you just gota ask nice to those who gank you to often and they will give you a break. If not just back out and play later.

lovehammer1 · September 2012

Yeah, backing out and playing later is an option. If you stand there and take that 3on1, 2on1 mess then complain...well not saying you asked for it but, it's better to leave than give them what they want.

Can't farm you if you are not there. Also, it pisses them off if they don't have a play thing to play with. Just themselves.

wesleytansg · September 2012

Decided not to quote since I have to refer to quite a few persons.

Xeno:

I agree with what you said about players have to options to work with or against other players in BASH and I have absolutely no issues if 2 or even more weaker players work together to slow down a player who is at the top of a chart or extremely hard to take down. However it is a totally different thing if said group of players each has 7 or 8 kills while their prey is 7 or 8 defeats.

Hence, I agree with the policy against unnecessary ganking.

Oh, and I am not sure what UAS stands for or refers to.

Secksegai:

Apologies on the slow follow up of the PvP tournament. It is still going down and I am still holding on to all the stuff which I intend to sponsor (3 purple dragon staffs, 3 nimbus or forces, a couple of other blood moon devices, I know it's not that much but it's from my own pocket). I am also timing it so that it will not be in the midst of the anniversary and the invasion so that people will not be too busy doing PvE plus the fact that work schedule is a little busy. But have faith, it will still go down.

Lovehammer1:

Actually, I too do not agree that SG wars is the way to boost PvP in CO because there are too few SGs for PvP and many casualties are caught in between as mentioned. SG wars can be fun in other games because the game design was meant it. SG wars can even be fun in CO if both SGs and their members know clearly what is going on and are able to maintain a civil or even amicable relationship outside of the war and the fight is balanced. However, this is apparently not the case given the amount of flaming that can occur in chat after a match.

l1ghtstar · September 2012

As previously stated, here's the vid that I mentioned earlier.
http://youtu.be/Sks8e5nUv3c

This isn't the only occurance, but just happens to be the only one I captured in video.

If I get beat, that's fine, and NO ONE can say that I have every complained about losing. I study ppl's tactics, and move on.

I'm totally oblivious to any/all SG wars going on, even the two times I was in AE and my current SPECTRE standing. Surprised they're still around. Last one I remember was when Darkened Might and his group declared war.

l1ghtstar · September 2012

Please allow an hour for video upload. thanks.

edit video uploaded

mainscrizz · September 2012

l1ghtstar wrote: »

As previously stated, here's the vid that I mentioned earlier.
http://youtu.be/Sks8e5nUv3c

This isn't the only occurance, but just happens to be the only one I captured in video.

If I get beat, that's fine, and NO ONE can say that I have every complained about losing. I study ppl's tactics, and move on.

I'm totally oblivious to any/all SG wars going on, even the two times I was in AE and my current SPECTRE standing. Surprised they're still around. Last one I remember was when Darkened Might and his group declared war.

lol, that tp looked menacing xD

monaahiru · September 2012

K, Wes, your AEs and I'm Spectre so lets start self-touching war together!!!
The one feel more good is the winner!!! xD

lady808 · September 2012

Love.. That's the thing.. I usually don't win. Unless my opponent is lazy, stupid, or just plain doesn't know what they're doing. I USUALLY loose vs people that have been using that build for awhile. So they're a challenge to me because I will, more often than not, loose to them. Especially if I make mistakes.

oobtree · September 2012

l1ghtstar wrote: »

As previously stated, here's the vid that I mentioned earlier.
http://youtu.be/Sks8e5nUv3c

This isn't the only occurance, but just happens to be the only one I captured in video.

If I get beat, that's fine, and NO ONE can say that I have every complained about losing. I study ppl's tactics, and move on.

I'm totally oblivious to any/all SG wars going on, even the two times I was in AE and my current SPECTRE standing. Surprised they're still around. Last one I remember was when Darkened Might and his group declared war.

I realize 2 AE's got a point from your death in that video, but analyzing the footage, and me being in AE, you see me bowing to you while The Scrizz maybe hit you once with Vincent, then you went KABOOM! Get more HP :P That's hardly ganking, also, you will never see me ganking any SPECTRE unless Eve is looking for a chase, or when Charlize is in the lead and deserves at least one death :biggrin:

In other words, I am in AE now but still love my old Spectre family!

wesleytansg · September 2012

monaahiru wrote: »

K, Wes, your AEs and I'm Spectre so lets start self-touching war together!!!
The one feel more good is the winner!!! xD

It feels good already. Lady-Frost is welcomed to join us :P

Imagine the entire RC filled with toons self-touching LOL, we can make a video of it hahaha.

wesleytansg · September 2012

l1ghtstar wrote: »

As previously stated, here's the vid that I mentioned earlier.
http://youtu.be/Sks8e5nUv3c

This isn't the only occurance, but just happens to be the only one I captured in video.

If I get beat, that's fine, and NO ONE can say that I have every complained about losing. I study ppl's tactics, and move on.

I'm totally oblivious to any/all SG wars going on, even the two times I was in AE and my current SPECTRE standing. Surprised they're still around. Last one I remember was when Darkened Might and his group declared war.

I am not really sure about this. I am not doubting you but the video shows you getting killed once, by 2 AE members. They were indeed standing around talking. You popped up out of teleport and surprised them. They probably thought you were going to attack them? I can't be sure really. Subsequently, did they continue to kill you repeatedly? Or have you left by then?

l1ghtstar · September 2012

as previously stated, this happens to be the only instance I have. But again, there have been other instances.

@ubtri, you are correct. In fact, I remember letting go of my controller to type an emote

l1ghtstar · September 2012

in an effort to stay analytical n unbiased I will say that I theorize that its not the whole sg, but rather certain players. Last night, Xeno n Raza from AE vs Secksegai, Eve, n myself from Spectre were going at it in Bash, and was very fun due to people going at it no matter what affiliation.

mainscrizz · September 2012

l1ghtstar wrote: »

As previously stated, here's the vid that I mentioned earlier.
http://youtu.be/Sks8e5nUv3c

This isn't the only occurance, but just happens to be the only one I captured in video.

If I get beat, that's fine, and NO ONE can say that I have every complained about losing. I study ppl's tactics, and move on.

I'm totally oblivious to any/all SG wars going on, even the two times I was in AE and my current SPECTRE standing. Surprised they're still around. Last one I remember was when Darkened Might and his group declared war.

LOL, i watched that again.
I wasn't even trying to kill u lol.

I hit u with a couple hurls and a typhoon from a LR build(not much damage at all) watch the video and see my attacks didn't hurt u. LOL

I would've switched to quarry, if i was trying to kill

and yes I was running 2 passives. lol

nesn00000 · September 2012

Yea I don't get it either, if someone landed next to me and immediatly went into sneak/stealth mode I light them up too. You don't see Captain Kirk lower the shields when a Klingon war bird cloaks do you?

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l1ghtstar · September 2012

before I land infront the people, some folks were spread out. No one is hurting no one. No active persuits....

This thread is becoming way too dramatic. let's have more Bash fight like last night where AE n Spectre were going at it no matter what affiliation, everyone for themselves

secksegai · September 2012

l1ghtstar wrote: »

in an effort to stay analytical n unbiased I will say that I theorize that its not the whole sg, but rather certain players. Last night, Xeno n Raza from AE vs Secksegai, Eve, n myself from Spectre were going at it in Bash, and was very fun due to people going at it no matter what affiliation.

I'm pretty neutral unless someone's on my list, it's in char's profile, I figured I'd finally add one after mooglemonkey complained to me incessantly than put me on ignore without me even once insulting him/her.

PvP (HG ethics)

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