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Forums > Home› Power Discussion

Help with a heavy weps tank build

creamymarinecreamymarine Posts: 22 Arc User
edited September 2012 in Power Discussion
Hello peeps, I need some (ok, probably a lot) help with building a heavy weps tank kept within concept.
The concept is a medieval knight's soul summoned not a long time ago by some necromantic wackos (they even got the wrong guy no less) and bound to an unbreakable suit of ancient rune armor, came out of it with much slower reaction time and pretty detached from the world around him, slow but purpuseful toon that can survive anything thrown at him.

Can use powers from different powersets as long as physical dmg is done by right hand and any magicks by left one (the armor's left gauntlet is missing)

Dont have to be viable for pvp (I rarely duel, pretty much only if one of my friends wants to test their build) but if it will menage it wont hurt.


Sorry for the old champ builder.
Dont look at TPs, they're just a placeholder.

Build by championBuilder 0.4.1

Download this Build here.

: Level 40 Champion

Superstats:
Thinking about primary Con and 2 out of Str, Rec, Int as secondaries

Powers:
Level 1: Bludgeon
Level 1: Cleave -- Rank 2, Challenging Strikes, Rank 3
Level 6: Defiance
Level 6: Earth Flight -- Rank 2
Level 8: Enrage -- Endorphin Rush
Level 11: Arc of Ruin -- No Quarter, Rank 2, Challenging Strikes
Level 14: Conviction
Level 17: Molecular Self-Assembly
Level 20: Annihilate -- Crippling Challenge, Rank 2
Level 23: Resurgence -- Rank 2, Rank 3
Level 26: Decimate -- Crippling Challenge
Level 29: Ebon Void -- Voracious Darkness
Level 32: Imbue -- Rank 2
Level 35: Skewer -- Follow Through, Rank 2, Rank 3
Level 35: Teleport -- Rank 2
Level 38: Unbreakable -- Rank 2

Talents:
Level 1: Superhuman
Level 6: Quick Recovery
Level 9: Boundless Reserves
Level 12: Negotiator
Level 15: Relentless
Level 18: Healthy Mind
Level 21: Physical Conditioning

I dont have any PRE in there as I hear it no longer affects threat generation.
As for specialisation trees Im completly lost, going by names Im going to get protector and warden ones tho.
_________________________________

And if that don't work?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by creamymarine on

Comments

  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,608 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    For a tank I'd want a better/bigger aoe taunt. I've seen iron cyclone with vortex technique adv being used to great effect, but that will cause you to use the actual HW attacks a lot less. My own HW tank uses ego sprites for aoe taunts.

    Something to think about, cleave has a adv that gives you one defiance stack, that works very nice with invulnerability or regeneration.
  • exxarprimeexxarprime Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Here's a quick take:


    PowerHouse (Link to this build)

    Name:

    Archetype: Freeform

    Super Stats:
    Level 6: Constitution (Primary)
    Level 10: Recovery (Secondary)
    Level 15: Intelligence (Secondary)

    Talents:
    Level 1: The Devastator
    Level 6: Healthy Mind
    Level 9: Quick Recovery
    Level 12: Negotiator
    Level 15: Physical Conditioning
    Level 18: Body and Mind
    Level 21: Relentless

    Powers:
    Level 1: Bludgeon
    Level 1: Eruption (Rank 2, Crippling Challenge)
    Level 6: Decimate
    Level 8: Annihilate (Rank 2, Crippling Challenge)
    Level 11: Arc of Ruin (No Quarter, Challenging Strikes)
    Level 14: Iron Cyclone (Rank 2, Vortex Technique, Challenging Strikes)
    Level 17: Defiance (Force of Will)
    Level 20: Enrage (Endorphin Rush)
    Level 23: Molecular Self-Assembly
    Level 26: Resurgence (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 29: Field Surge (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 32: Unbreakable (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 35: Ebon Void (Voracious Darkness)
    Level 38: Imbue

    Travel Powers:
    Level 6:
    Level 35:

    Specializations:



    For your secondary superstats, I took REC and INT to take care of any potential energy problems, and INT also works wonders with your cooldowns. I'm not a fan of picking STR or EGO for superstats since they get diminishing returns at a level to which you can easily build with supplemental talenting and gear.

    Lets take a look at your attacks. Eruption is the centerpiece of the build, having extreme DPS, Crippling Challenge and a 3 s cooldown which will be significantly reduced by your INT. It also ties in with your energy management by being your trigger for Molecular Self Assembly, which you'll thus have perma and giving you huge returns thanks to your superstatted REC and INT. While we're at it, your remaining energy problems will be sorted by Defiance and blocking so you'll probably never ever have to use your energy builder.

    But lets get back to the attacks. Annihilate is your other bread and butter single-target attack, you'll be using it between Eruptions and it also comes with Crippling Challenge. Iron Cyclone is both your AoE attack and taunt, and while its damage is nothing special, I didn't have room for sticking in another AoE specifically for dealing damage. I find that OK since you're building a dedicated tank. Arc of Ruin is there purely for the Disorient and resistance debuff (use it only for refreshing them), and you have Decimate for closing distances.

    And finally, your defensive cooldowns. During play, I've noticed Conviction doing squat on characters with high CON and low PRE. Resurgence, however, scales with your HP, and at rank 3 it will restore more than half. Field Surge is another power with similar scaling as far as I see, but with a bit lower numbers than Resurgence. Those two will be up quite often due to your INT. For your concept, it can definitively pass as magic.

    I'm a bit short on time right now, so I'll leave specializations to others.

    This, of course, is not a leveling build.
  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,608 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    I would not use shielding powers together with a defensive passive, all that damage resistance is wasted with shields (uncluding unbreakable). A few heals will help much more.
  • exxarprimeexxarprime Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Ah indeed, I forgot that shielding powers don't take resistances into account.

    The thing is, I really never had any success with healing powers on high CON low PRE builds except for Resurgence, Bountiful Chi Resurgence and Essence Drain. This build doesn't have any dodge to fuel BCR and ED doesn't fit the concept I think.
  • creamymarinecreamymarine Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Invul is too sparkly for him and yeah, shields are out.
    Dodge may work as the armor's runes diverting attacks to cause less dmg but Chi is probably out anyway.
    Chain powers will not fit but i can use em if there is no other way...


    Ok, some questions:

    Would Brimstone work for AoE taunt?
    Is Str really not needed?
    What are your opinions on Cleave?
    How potent is Endorphin Rush now?
    Also - CC on Decimate, wont work?
    _________________________________

    And if that don't work?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • exxarprimeexxarprime Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    creamymarine wrote: »
    Ok, some questions:

    Would Brimstone work for AoE taunt?
    Is Str really not needed?
    What are your opinions on Cleave?
    How potent is Endorphin Rush now?
    Also - CC on Decimate, wont work?

    I really think you need a bigger area than what Brimstone has for an effective AoE taunt.

    Your mileage may vary in regards to STR, but since its only real benefit is increasing your melee damage and which falls off sharply after 70 or so, I really don't see a point in superstatting it. You can get there via gear picks while getting your superstats even higher.

    Cleave is an awesome multi-purpose attack and a must have for any leveling Heavy Weapons build, but there are better ones for specific purposes. Eruption and Annihilate do more ST damage. Any proper spherical AoE is a better AoE. You can get more than enough Enrage using knock powers. So when you have the room for specialized tools, there's really no need for Cleave.

    No idea about Endorphin Rush.

    You won't be using Decimate for anything except for gap closing (its damage is piss poor), while you'll be using Eruption and Annihilate all the time. So why waste ranks for CC in it?
  • creamymarinecreamymarine Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    exxarprime wrote: »
    I really think you need a bigger area than what Brimstone has for an effective AoE taunt.

    Anything else with big enough sphere without using chains?

    exxarprime wrote: »
    Your mileage may vary in regards to STR, but since its only real benefit is increasing your melee damage and which falls off sharply after 70 or so, I really don't see a point in superstatting it. You can get there via gear picks while getting your superstats even higher.

    Cleave is an awesome multi-purpose attack and a must have for any leveling Heavy Weapons build, but there are better ones for specific purposes. Eruption and Annihilate do more ST damage. Any proper spherical AoE is a better AoE. You can get more than enough Enrage using knock powers. So when you have the room for specialized tools, there's really no need for Cleave.

    Roger that.

    exxarprime wrote: »
    You won't be using Decimate for anything except for gap closing (its damage is piss poor), while you'll be using Eruption and Annihilate all the time. So why waste ranks for CC in it?

    Initially i was going to cycle Conviction and Decimate for MSA , CC on decimate being a nice addon to work with annihilate's but we have Eruption in there now so ok.
    _________________________________

    And if that don't work?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • creamymarinecreamymarine Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Modified build based on your advice

    Build by championBuilder 0.4.1

    Download this Build here.

    : Level 40 Champion

    Superstats:
    Level 6: Super Constitution
    Level 13: Super Intelligence (secondary)
    And Super Recovery (secondary)

    Powers:
    Level 1: Bludgeon
    Level 1: Eruption -- Rank 2, Crippling Challenge
    Level 6: Defiance
    Level 6: Earth Flight -- Rank 2
    Level 8: Enrage -- Endorphin Rush
    Level 11: Arc of Ruin -- Challenging Strikes, Rank 2, No Quarter
    Level 14: Annihilate -- Crippling Challenge, Rank 2
    Level 17: Molecular Self-Assembly
    Level 20: Resurgence -- Rank 2, Rank 3
    Level 23: Unbreakable -- Rank 2, Better You Than Me
    Level 26: Decimate
    Level 29: Ebon Void -- Voracious Darkness
    Level 32: Imbue -- Rank 2
    Level 35: Vicious Cyclone -- Vortex Technique, Challenging Strikes, Rank 2
    Level 35: Teleport -- Rank 2
    Level 38: Empty

    Talents:
    Level 1: Superhuman
    Level 6: Quick Recovery
    Level 9: Boundless Reserves
    Level 12: Negotiator
    Level 15: Relentless
    Level 18: Healthy Mind
    Level 21: Physical Conditioning

    Used toxic chains, they'll fit better for magic, I cant imagine him swinging around a normal chain.
    I dunno what to take as the last power.


    btw, Is Enrage still scaling with Str?

    ps. Can anyone give me a link to the newest version of champ builder?
    _________________________________

    And if that don't work?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,608 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Yes, enrage still scales with str.

    You are a little low on heals, I'd add conviction. That it is not a big heal, but the recharge time is low, so it does add up after a while, and it procs msa.

    Endorphin Rush heals a little more then 200 with 8 enrages stacks (is gets better with more stacks) on my lvl40 tank, I think that is once per 2 seconds.

    http://powerhouse.nullware.com/powerhouse.html
  • creamymarinecreamymarine Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Oh, online champ builder, thanks!

    PowerHouse (Link to this build)

    Name:

    Archetype: Freeform

    Super Stats:
    Level 6: Constitution (Primary)
    Level 10: Intelligence (Secondary)
    Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

    Talents:
    Level 1: Superhuman
    Level 6: Physical Conditioning
    Level 9: Relentless
    Level 12: Healthy Mind
    Level 15: Negotiator
    Level 18: Quick Recovery
    Level 21: Boundless Reserves

    Powers:
    Level 1: Bludgeon
    Level 1: Eruption (Rank 2, Crippling Challenge)
    Level 6: Defiance
    Level 8: Enrage (Endorphin Rush)
    Level 11: Arc of Ruin (Rank 2, No Quarter, Challenging Strikes)
    Level 14: Annihilate (Rank 2, Crippling Challenge)
    Level 17: Decimate
    Level 20: Molecular Self-Assembly
    Level 23: Resurgence (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 26: Unbreakable (Rank 2, Better You Than Me)
    Level 29: Ebon Void (Voracious Darkness)
    Level 32: Vicious Cyclone (Rank 2, Vortex Technique, Challenging Strikes)
    Level 35: Imbue (Rank 2)
    Level 38: Conviction

    Travel Powers:
    Level 6:
    Level 35:

    Specializations:


    So what do you guys think?
    _________________________________

    And if that don't work?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • creamymarinecreamymarine Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Experimented some with specialisations

    PowerHouse (Link to this build)

    Name:

    Archetype: Freeform

    Super Stats:
    Level 6: Constitution (Primary)
    Level 10: Intelligence (Secondary)
    Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

    Talents:
    Level 1: Superhuman
    Level 6: Physical Conditioning
    Level 9: Relentless
    Level 12: Healthy Mind
    Level 15: Negotiator
    Level 18: Quick Recovery
    Level 21: Boundless Reserves

    Powers:
    Level 1: Bludgeon
    Level 1: Eruption (Rank 2, Crippling Challenge)
    Level 6: Defiance
    Level 8: Enrage (Endorphin Rush)
    Level 11: Arc of Ruin (Rank 2, No Quarter, Challenging Strikes)
    Level 14: Annihilate (Rank 2, Crippling Challenge)
    Level 17: Decimate
    Level 20: Molecular Self-Assembly
    Level 23: Resurgence (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 26: Unbreakable (Rank 2, Better You Than Me)
    Level 29: Ebon Void (Voracious Darkness)
    Level 32: Vicious Cyclone (Rank 2, Vortex Technique, Challenging Strikes)
    Level 35: Imbue (Rank 2)
    Level 38: Conviction (Rank 2)

    Travel Powers:
    Level 6:
    Level 35:

    Specializations:
    Constitution: Unyielding (2/2)
    Constitution: Tough (1/3)
    Constitution: Resilient (2/2)
    Constitution: Quick Healing (3/3)
    Constitution: Armored (2/2)
    Protector: Fortified Gear (3/3)
    Protector: Bulwark (2/2)
    Protector: Defensive Expertise (2/3)
    Protector: Resolute (3/3)
    Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
    Warden: Elusive (2/2)
    Warden: Tenacious (2/2)
    Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
    Mastery: Constitution Mastery (1/1)

    I noticed there is a crit based heal in Con tree, maybe add some dex to the build?
    _________________________________

    And if that don't work?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,608 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    It looks good to me.

    One more thing, do you really need 2 superstats to manage your energy? Defiance and msa already give you a lots of energy, and there are cost reduction items. With str ss enrage will work a lot better. You do not really have powers that cost a lot.

    Again refering to my own hw tank, she has con/str/rec ss's, like you I am using msa, but instead of defiance I have invuln. I do have to use my energy builder a bit, but not overly much, and with some of the specs for EB's, using them a bit can be a good thing.

    The heal on crit spec is really nice, it works nice even with only crit chance from items, but dex will make it even better of course.
  • exxarprimeexxarprime Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Enrage still scales with STR, yes, but 70 will be more than enough. I mean, you're a tank, not a damage dealer. Maximizing Enrage is one of the rare cases I'd superstat STR, but would think about it even then. I really feel like wasting resources in such cases.
  • exxarprimeexxarprime Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    And you probably could swap out one of REC or INT for something else, but it's a tough call on which one. If you swap out REC, I think you would have a bit on an energy issue, but if you swap out INT, your active defenses would be on longer cooldowns.
  • creamymarinecreamymarine Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Oh right, there is a lot of cost discount/shorter recharge/dodge chance/crit bonus stats on gear now.

    So dex instead of int or rec then?
    Crit heals on conviction and healing on crit from Con tree might help
    _________________________________

    And if that don't work?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • creamymarinecreamymarine Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Secondary Dex version

    PowerHouse (Link to this build)

    Name:

    Archetype: Freeform

    Super Stats:
    Level 6: Constitution (Primary)
    Level 10: Recovery (Secondary)
    Level 15: Dexterity (Secondary)

    Talents:
    Level 1: Superhuman
    Level 6: Physical Conditioning
    Level 9: Relentless
    Level 12: Martial Focus
    Level 15: Acrobat
    Level 18: Quick Recovery
    Level 21: Boundless Reserves

    Powers:
    Level 1: Bludgeon
    Level 1: Eruption (Rank 2, Crippling Challenge)
    Level 6: Defiance
    Level 8: Arc of Ruin (Rank 2, No Quarter, Challenging Strikes)
    Level 11: Enrage (Endorphin Rush)
    Level 14: Annihilate (Rank 2, Crippling Challenge)
    Level 17: Decimate
    Level 20: Molecular Self-Assembly
    Level 23: Resurgence (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 26: Unbreakable (Rank 2, Better You Than Me)
    Level 29: Ebon Void (Voracious Darkness)
    Level 32: Vicious Cyclone (Rank 2, Vortex Technique, Challenging Strikes)
    Level 35: Imbue (Rank 2)
    Level 38: Conviction (Rank 2)

    Travel Powers:
    Level 6:
    Level 35:

    Specializations:
    Constitution: Unyielding (2/2)
    Constitution: Tough (1/3)
    Constitution: Resilient (2/2)
    Constitution: Quick Healing (3/3)
    Constitution: Adrenaline Rush (2/2)
    Protector: Fortified Gear (3/3)
    Protector: Bulwark (2/2)
    Protector: Defensive Expertise (2/3)
    Protector: Resolute (3/3)
    Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
    Warden: Elusive (2/2)
    Warden: Tenacious (2/2)
    Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
    Mastery: Constitution Mastery (1/1)

    Big Thanks to all of you for help with this.

    Still some stuff to ask:
    What should I take, Unbreakable r3 or Better you than me?
    And how should I gear this toon?

    I would go test it in the meantime but servers are apparently down.
    _________________________________

    And if that don't work?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • mauk2mauk2 Posts: 76 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Oh, I love this thread! I've been working on my own Heavy Weapon toon.

    See thread:

    http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=175121


    I'm not looking for 'ultimate tank' or 'ultimate dps' but a nice healthy dose of both. I've gotten some excellent advice and tips, so check out the last build in that thread for ideas, and if anyone sees anything that sucks, let me know and I'll try to fix it. :)
  • mauk2mauk2 Posts: 76 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Okay, I'm a bit puzzled.

    I went to the co-wiki to get some information about the attacks in Heavy Weapons.

    Assuming that info is correct, and assuming the myriad buffs affect all powers equally, I find that, as I suspected, cleave run for combo's is pretty close to identical damage to every other aoe in the set, with only skewer being somewhat better.

    Eruption, again, is nearly identical with the other single targets.

    The only real differentiator seems to be the animations and effects.

    Is this close to correct? Do the different powers scale with level differently, to give the higher tier powers advantages as you get higher in level?

    I am puzzled.

    Also: if you apply crippling challenge to an aoe, does it affect all targets equally?
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